Author Topic: What if... The Fleeing remnants of Clan Wolverine joined the up with the ELH?  (Read 7585 times)

billtfor3

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What if... In the year 2825, the mysterious Minnesota Tribe attacked the Draconis Combine, then left the Inner Sphere and were never seen again. What if instead of leaving, the remnants of Clan Wolverine intercepted news holos about the Eridani Light Horse?

Choosing to follow these reports of a unit that still honored the ideals and traditions of the Star League, the Wolverines sent representatives to meet the ELH Leadership and reveal what happened to the Exodus forces and how Nickolas Kerensky was shaping them into something that had little to nothing of the ideals the Star League stood for. This would be after the Kentares Massacre, and when the ELH was taking it's first real contract as a Mercenary unit.

Would the ELH welcome the Wolverine survivors? Would we see another regiment brought up to join them as the 331st Royal Battlemech Division? Would they New ELH have alerted any of the Great Houses of the threat that lurked in the Deep Periphery? How would Comstar react? Would Wolf's Dragoons appearance have led to an ELH response, realizing who and what the Dragoons likely were?
« Last Edit: 30 June 2020, 15:42:00 by billtfor3 »
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Daryk

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Now this is a very interesting idea, even to a grognard like me...  ^-^

David CGB

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much better idea then what happened, I hope when the Wolf's Dragoons appearance did come that they watched and waited to get intel on what was happening, rather then outright attacking.
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billtfor3

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Now this is a very interesting idea, even to a grognard like me...  ^-^

I try lol!
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billtfor3

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much better idea then what happened, I hope when the Wolf's Dragoons appearance did come that they watched and waited to get intel on what was happening, rather than outright attacking.

I doubt they would have attacked outright but would have been watching closely once, something unexpected came from the Periferhry.  Even with the Wolverine's strength and knowledge, the ELH would be a speed bump to a Clan Invasion.
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Red Pins

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Hmm.  Interesting.  A couple questions; how to keep Comstar from finding out, and who were the ELH contracted with?
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David CGB

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I doubt they would have attacked outright but would have been watching closely once, something unexpected came from the Periferhry.  Even with the Wolverine's strength and knowledge, the ELH would be a speed bump to a Clan Invasion.
I meant attack the Wolf's Dragoons, sorry
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glitterboy2098

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checked sarna.. looks like the ELH was in the Free Worlds League at the time (they had moved there starting in 2798 from service in the combine, after learning about the Kentares Massacre which had ended only a year before)

(also apparently the combine tried to stop them leaving, including taking hostage some of the ELH civilians, then killing them when the ELH refused to comply. which led to units of the ELH utterly destroying an entire planetary government in retaliation. which made me wonder why the hell the combine thought they'd get a different result when trying the same strategy against the Wolf's Dragoons in 3028, against a unit far larger and more skilled.)

in 2853 the ELH relocated to Circinus for operations against the lyran periphery regions.


honestly i'd use that as the point of contact..  since it would take years and years to circle the IS as the Tribe appear to have done in canon. they could find a planet in the deep periphery, set down a colony, then after a few years make contact with the ELH, with hopes to use them as their contact with the IS. either they approach them on circinus.. or possibly, approach them in the FWL, then the ELH arranges to be sent to circinus so they could meet up with a Tribe mission for full negotiations.
« Last Edit: 30 June 2020, 19:52:02 by glitterboy2098 »

Jellico

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Isn't one a nation state in exile and the other a moderately successful mid sized corporate entity?

Wouldn't Clan Wolverine inherently absorb the ELH? It is hard to avoid the Wolverines as the senior partner and that offers nothing to ELH.

Charistoph

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...
(... which made me wonder why the hell the combine thought they'd get a different result when trying the same strategy against the Wolf's Dragoons in 3028, against a unit far larger and more skilled.)...

200 years is a fair amount of time to get stupid again.  Honestly, I would think the situation in the League would have made Samsonov think about 20 times before trying to pull that stunt off.  That's a bit more pointed a lesson.

Isn't one a nation state in exile and the other a moderately successful mid sized corporate entity?

Wouldn't Clan Wolverine inherently absorb the ELH? It is hard to avoid the Wolverines as the senior partner and that offers nothing to ELH.

It depends on how "hidden" they wanted to remain.  They likely would not have liked the idea of word of them returning to the groups they just left.  Even the Warden Wolves would not have held back much in a return just to get at them.

Internally is another matter.  They would have to take on the image and practices of the ELH (and to be fair, the Minnesota Tribe isn't THAT far removed from the Exodus when compared to the Dragoons) so that wouldn't be that difficult to do.  Even as it is, the Coordinator at the time thought the Minnesota were the Exodus returning.

Would the ELH welcome the Wolverine survivors?

Quite possibly, even likely.  I would think they would accept any SLDF patriots back in to the fold, really.  Even if they are a generation or two away from the Exodus, the mystique would help, almost as much as their equipment.

Would they New ELH have alerted any of the Great Houses of the threat that lurked in the Deep Periphery?

That's a good question.  I think it would depend on how well they got along with the Houses.  There is a chance they likely might not to both protect the incorporated Tribe and to cover any chances of being targeted by unsavory types who might want revenge on Exodus units.

Speaking of which:

How would Comstar react?

If they came in stealthily and joined up without doing extensive raiding, Comstar would probably only start acting due to the ELH's sudden increase in size and quality of equipment.  From there, it would largely depend on how loose-lipped some of the personnel were and how quickly integration took hold.  I could see Comstar leading them in to some traps that would maul the new unit as much as possible, just in case.  These would be of a pattern that the Grey Death Legion would face 200 years later.

Would Wolf's Dragoons appearance have led to an ELH response, realizing who and what the Dragoons likely were?

This assumes that any such knowledge would have been retained over the 200 years of integration, especially for units that take on tricky combat contracts that often lead to dead leaders in normal situations.  When you get sneaky Space Ma Bell involved, this becomes more likely over 200 years.

Provided that they stayed alive, coherent, strong, and retaining knowledge of the Clans, they likely would have suspected and sought contracts to either fight against them or to fight alongside them to pick up anything that would betray their Clan idiosyncrasies.  Still, a lot of things can change over 200 years, and some of those things that were Clan in the 2800s just didn't quite exist in the same way as they did in the 3000s, so the Wolfs might have been able to keep their origin from being confirmed (but the suspicion never allayed).

If they could confirm they were Clan, BUT with Warden tendencies, they might even seek to hook up and work together in keeping the Clans away.

If they confirmed they were Clan, but either identified them as Wolf or never confirmed their Warden preferences, then one would probably seen them taking on contracts to destroy the Dragoons out of fear of being discovered as having Wolverine descendants among them.

This scenario would seem more likely, and unless Comstar had managed to maul the ELH over the centuries, they would be among the few units that could handle anti-Dragoon assignments (and often did, in the original time line).
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Luciora

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Comstar tried to infiltrate the Dragoons and failed on multiple attempts because of how secure they were.  The Wolverines might be as hard to get into,  but the ELH might be less secure, due them being on the Sphere for so long.

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I love how the lore of battletech is so random that conspiracy theories are just... theories.  Like, as good as anything else.

billtfor3

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Hmm.  Interesting.  A couple questions; how to keep Comstar from finding out, and who were the ELH contracted with?

Comstar would be the issue really as it would be hard to hide them when most thought of Comstar as merely the keepers of the HPG network, and peaceful.  Funny right?

They would be working for the Free Worlds League at the time if I am reading Sarna correctly.
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Elmoth

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Looks like even SAFE would become aware of them in a short time (a few years). The ELH might find themselves with a lot of attention, specially via kidnappings and not so nice interrogations to know about the state of the exodus. ROM might be the least of their problems.

However, I would say that they would not I tehrate with the ELH but keep contact and share info and resources with them in limited amounts. That but give them a foothold in the IS without committing to it.

But then we have the dragoons and the mass stupidity of the houses, so everything is possible depending on the writer.

billtfor3

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Isn't one a nation state in exile and the other a moderately successful mid sized corporate entity?

Wouldn't Clan Wolverine inherently absorb the ELH? It is hard to avoid the Wolverines as the senior partner and that offers nothing to ELH.

Well the ELH would be stronger militarily, even with the Star League and some advances the Wolverines had made since they maybe only had a Galaxy worth of troops and the ELH had 3 Regiments.  Then I think about it though and the Wolverines had at least 3-5 Warships still and that something I think no one but Comstar would still have at the time.

The Wolverine civilian population would have been something to consider as well.  I can't remember from Betrayal of Ideals exactly how many escaped and survived Barbados, but it was substantial.
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Frabby

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The ELH is actually one of the few "places" where the shot-up Wolverines could hide in plain sight, as the ELH was also a largish ex-SLDF outfit where the equipment and training of the Wolverines wouldn't stick out like a sore thumb. Remember that the Clans, at this point, were still in their early stages and only one generation removed from their SLDF ancestors; and Clan Wolverine was particularly progressive in the sense of calling out the more outlandish Clan nonsense as such.

An influx of Wolverines would also help to explain how the ELH managed to uphold their high standards. Remember that the ELH later stood at eye level with Wolf's Dragoons, one of the few units to actually beat them on the battlefield at least once.

I can easily see the Wolverines shamefully forgetting or glossing over that stupid and embarrassing Exodus episode and resume their proper duty as SLDF protectors as part of the SLDF. They had turned away from all of that, after all, and for all they knew the Clans were a marginal society of lunatics out in the deep periphery, not a menace.

However...
...why the ELH? There's a number of other possible units that held the SLDF banner up. And of course there was Jerome Blake who had been formally put in command of the SLDF that wanted to remain behind. Did the Wolverines hate (Aleksandr) Kerensky so much that they never considered Blake/ComStar as a natural first door to knock on?
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Elmoth

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So the wolverines defended Tukayyid?

Wolf72

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I like this idea,

BUT, what happens when they invade Huntress then get snagged by Goliath Scorpions, jump a few years to Reaving.  That's a lot of 'splainin' to do.  I think there would be some cool alternate scenarios (Save the Blood Spirits!)
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grimlock1

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Isn't one a nation state in exile and the other a moderately successful mid sized corporate entity?

Wouldn't Clan Wolverine inherently absorb the ELH? It is hard to avoid the Wolverines as the senior partner and that offers nothing to ELH.
That depends how much of Clan Wolverine made it back to the Sphere.

I doubt they would have attacked outright but would have been watching closely once, something unexpected came from the Periferhry.  Even with the Wolverine's strength and knowledge, the ELH would be a speed bump to a Clan Invasion.
Look what the Dragoons were able to do in a couple decades.  Given 225 years to prepare? 
Aren't there hints that the Dragoons occasionally let some Clan tech out of the bag?  Could the ELH sit on their newfound Clan gear, watching teammates die in Clints and Quickdraws when you had Timber Wolves in storage?

However...
...why the ELH? There's a number of other possible units that held the SLDF banner up. And of course there was Jerome Blake who had been formally put in command of the SLDF that wanted to remain behind. Did the Wolverines hate (Aleksandr) Kerensky so much that they never considered Blake/ComStar as a natural first door to knock on?
Blake died in 2819.  I think Toyama was in charge then... And after Kerensky, the Wolverines would be very averse to a cult of personality.
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The Wolverines only had some proto-clan tech.  Omnimechs were not officially debuted to the Clans until after the annihilation.

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I like this idea, but it seems like another theory that we will talk about when it comes to Clan Wolverine. But we don't know how many of Clan Wolverine made it Inner Sphere.

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Wolverines left Clan space with ... a cluster? Plus some odds and ends that they thought could be stitched together into another cluster.

In Inner Sphere parlance that would be roughly comparable to a regiment or so. That would increase ELH by some 50% in terms of combat strength. A bigger contribution though would be what else Wolverines had stowed on their ships. Their MASC was modern Clantech. Their ER PPC's did 20% more damage. And they had manufacturing capacity and blueprints for it secured away.

grimlock1

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Wolverines left Clan space with ... a cluster? Plus some odds and ends that they thought could be stitched together into another cluster.

In Inner Sphere parlance that would be roughly comparable to a regiment or so. That would increase ELH by some 50% in terms of combat strength. A bigger contribution though would be what else Wolverines had stowed on their ships. Their MASC was modern Clantech. Their ER PPC's did 20% more damage. And they had manufacturing capacity and blueprints for it secured away.
The drawings for weapons or even the machinery to make more aren't that valuable.  The drawings and tools to make more machines are what's important.  I can make a lot with a Bridgeport mill, but once that mill wears out, that's it.  But if you give me a lathe... I can use that lathe, and some castings, and bearings and a bunch of other stuff,  to build another lathe, and a mill while I'm at it.   

Now if they could get to Comstar BEFORE Toyama goes too deep into the religious zealotry, they might be able to retain enough critical mass of knowledge to build gear that 90% Clan spec by 3050.   On the other hand, Toyama was kind of crazy anyway so he would probably absorb them.
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In the end, every single WS in the IS was destroyed/disabled by the end of the 2SW.

Even if they suddenly had a couple, I doubt they last any longer than anyone else, they would get pulled into the fight at some point & get wrecked.

And infusion of new tech might also help for a couple hundred years, but w/ C* out there killing & confiscating every bit of tech they can find, how long can the ELW keep their edge.

At best maybe you get 4 full regiments in size for the ELW at that time instead of the damaged 3 the ELH had.

Short of finding some hidden SL base in the periphery or settling one of the "Hidden" worlds before C* made them disappear, I'm not sure how this group could actually grow & thrive.

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glitterboy2098

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The drawings for weapons or even the machinery to make more aren't that valuable.  The drawings and tools to make more machines are what's important.  I can make a lot with a Bridgeport mill, but once that mill wears out, that's it.  But if you give me a lathe... I can use that lathe, and some castings, and bearings and a bunch of other stuff,  to build another lathe, and a mill while I'm at it.   

Now if they could get to Comstar BEFORE Toyama goes too deep into the religious zealotry, they might be able to retain enough critical mass of knowledge to build gear that 90% Clan spec by 3050.   On the other hand, Toyama was kind of crazy anyway so he would probably absorb them.

this is why my speculation has the wolverines settling somewhere in the periphery (most likely at some old SLDF base), and then contacting the ELH to use them as a front operation.. the ELH get a source of star league style trained techs and engineers, some replacement hardware and parts (with more available over time), as well as eventually some trained soldiers and pilots, and potential access to a warship (at the time there were still a few left). the Wolverines get to use the ELH as front men for intel and to obtain tools and equipment needed to help build up the wolverine techbase at the colony. which once built can supply the ELH as well as their own needs. the ELH also get to serve as a source of Cadre for the wolverine military.

billtfor3

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Wolverines left Clan space with ... a cluster? Plus some odds and ends that they thought could be stitched together into another cluster.

In Inner Sphere parlance that would be roughly comparable to a regiment or so. That would increase ELH by some 50% in terms of combat strength. A bigger contribution though would be what else Wolverines had stowed on their ships. Their MASC was modern Clantech. Their ER PPC's did 20% more damage. And they had manufacturing capacity and blueprints for it secured away.

A cluster is only about a BN. Galaxy is about regimental Strength.

The survivors that didn't fight on Barbados, I would estimate had at least two Clusters left, and they found survivors still on Barbados as well, mostly civilians, but some never the less.

So maybe a Galaxy/Regiment of Troops, and gear.  Maybe 500,000 civilians or so.  Still its a chunk of people to start a new life somewhere, and maybe instead of joining straight up with the ELH, they make contact and rotate some Company Strength elements in slowly.  Being very quiet and very cautious, until there is a new "Wolverine" Battalion in one of the Regiments. 
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I've considered this particular idea since Betrayal came out. I've just never plotted out what it'd look like. It's a campaign concept I'd like to try, I just don't know enough about that era to do it.
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billtfor3

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I've considered this particular idea since Betrayal came out. I've just never plotted out what it'd look like. It's a campaign concept I'd like to try, I just don't know enough about that era to do it.

I can see this a cool campaign concept, either as the ELH representatives trying to figure out the best course of action, or the Wolverines trying to do the same!
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Elmoth

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Or as a covert Comstar team trying to figue out what is happening here... ;)

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Would they New ELH have alerted any of the Great Houses of the threat that lurked in the Deep Periphery?

I think the ELH leadership would have been really torn in their loyalties between the peoples of the Inner Sphere and the SLDF-in-Exile/Wolverines.

Revealing the fate of the SLDF to the Houses would have exposed the Wolverines and the ELH themselves to gawd knows what kinds of political machinations, covert ops, and outright assaults by the Houses and ComStar.  For the safety of their own and the Wolverines, the ELH leadership might have maintained the secret.  If they did, then I think little changes in the BT universe.  Even after Operation Revival hit, the ELH/Wolverines would have had even less impact than Wolf’s Dragoons, being a couple centuries removed from the development of Clan culture and technology.

If the ELH leadership decided that the needs of the many outweighed the needs of the few and revealed the fate of the of the SLDF to the Inner Sphere, that’s a universe-shaking revelation.  With the knowledge that Kerensky’s army is still out there, that it is developing into a rather alien threat, and even where it is approximately located, the House leaders and ComStar are going to act very differently.  Some may seek to bring Kerensky’s army to their side, some may seek to ally and gird against the alien threat, some may seek to neutralize the threat at its source before it becomes too big, etc.  But whatever happens, the Succession Wars are fundamentally altered, if they continue at all, and Operation Revival never happens or occurs much earlier.  Revealing and confirming the true origins of the Wolverines circa 2825 forever alters the BT timeline and universe.
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