Why have an exodus if Amanda Cameron was alive?

[Natasha Kerensky]

  What "OTHERS IN POWER"? There is only one "other" with any power to do anything, outside of the Houses

Blake, DeChevalier, those House Lords who were less jaded and grasping, any number of SL bureaucracy and TH leaders, etc.

and you refuse to recognize that pachyderm in the room...that had already decided to leave the room (Exodus), no matter what.

There’s no proof that the Exodus decision, once made, was irreversible.  But even if it was, reread my post.  The first point I made was that “timing is everything”.

Narcissist fits very well with "The Voice of Kerensky", as well as trying to set himself up as a king in the deep periphery, neither of those actions is consistent with a loyal, professional soldier.

The Pentagon Worlds and the Voice of Kerensky have nothing to do with whether the existence and knowledge of Mandy C or another surviving Cameron would have altered the trajectory of the Star League.  These things happened after the Star League.  The only reason you’re bringing them up is prove that Alex K was a “narcissist”.  That argument belongs in one of the “evil” Kerensky threads linked above.  Not here or in other Star League threads.

with the expectation of another try at "Lord Protector" and was denied, and that set him to leaving hell-or-high-water

Alex K had no expectations regarding the title of “Protector of the Star League”.  It was thrust upon him by the High Council and removed by them years later.  Alex K made no effort to have the title reinstated.  Instead, he pleaded with the High Council, collectively and individually, to name a new First Lord.  These kinds of falsehoods to support an “evil” Kerensky theory belong in a fan fiction conspiracy thread.  Not here or in other Star League threads.  One is linked above. 

Aleksandr Kerensky was a Terran Hegemony citizen, the bulk of his units were Terran units.

This is patently false.  A quick glance at the unit listing in the back of the SLSB shows that the Royal divisions and regiments from the TH made up a minority of SLDF units.  These kinds of falsehoods to support an “evil” Alex K theory belong in a fan fiction conspiracy thread.  Not here or in other Star League threads.  One is linked above.

he made zero effort to restore civil government to the Terran Hegemony, nor did he make any effort to restore civil administration... Once denied the seat as 'first lord in all but name' he put his energies into making sure the Terran Hegemony would be easily taken out and unable to remain intact as a state... would have been to restore domestic order and rebuild but he elected not to do that. 

This is all false.  Among other things, Alex K lobbied the High Council, collectively and individually, to name a new First Lord and maintain the Star League.  The damage to TH governance and infrastructure was wreaked by Rim Worlds troops and mercenaries at Amaris’s direction, not by Alex K and the SLDF.  It was the High Council that voted to dissolve the Star League, not Alex K.  These kinds of falsehoods to support an “evil” Kerensky theory belong in a fan fiction conspiracy thread.  Not here.  One is linked above.

The in-universe logic shows Kerensky was...well, not as advertised, not when you apply the rule of natural consequences or assume a professional military background in-setting.  But out of universe, of course, he was a sainted idealist.  not because anything he did reflects that, but because that is what's on his character sheet when you look on the other side of the DM screen.

This whole paragraph has nothing whatsoever to do with the thread topic of whether Mandy C or another surviving Cameron would have changed the trajectory of the Star League.  This paragraph is entirely a referendum on Alex K.  That belongs in one of the “evil” Kerensky threads linked above.  Not here.

[monbvol]

I find it somewhat bizarre that people keep arguing that the SL could have kept going forever when Fasa created it to fail and fall like the Roman Empire. House Cameron wasn't the Federation of Planets.

Likewise I find it interesting that just like Rome the Star League is held up as some idealized golden age when the reality is it was always deeply flawed and has a very dark side if actually examined.

You do not become a general, and especially a general at that level without the ability to play politics.  Hell, really you cannot rise out of the mid-ranks, enlisted or officer, in peacetime without playing the political game.  Gets into written and unwritten rules of rank- FREX officers and enlisted of a certain rank (quite low actually) are expected to buy tickets to Blah-Blah charity ball and put in a long appearance.  Your spouse will be involved in the Family Support Group (or whatever the Star League equivalent would be) so they can help demonstrate your family's commitment to the unit/service.  I had a friend who ended up with a condition after one tour in Iraq- stress triggered a genetic problem he never knew about- who came home later b/c he spent a month or so in Germany medevac'd at the end of the tour.  His condition is diagnosed and well understood, the unit says he cannot go to the school required for the next promotion . . . but hey, we have another deployment coming up and while you are medically disqualified you can get around it if you sign this waiver.  The unit would not let him go to the school but wanted him to sign a medical waiver to go back to a combat zone because of politics.  He laughed, and changed his plan from putting in 20 to getting out.  Funny thing, his civvie job had him move to another state, his local unit was not as deployable and suddenly he could go to the school . . . plans changed again, put in the remaining 10 for retirement.

Actually in the court of the Star League it seems you can.  Everything I have ever read about Kerensky gives me the picture of a man incapable of playing the political game beyond engendering a cult of personality and others saw this and thought they could use it to their advantage.

There was real concern about a disloyal/subverted SLDF turning on the TH at the time too.  So someone promoted beyond his abilities either politically or militarily but had the charisma to keep the troops in line and passed every loyalty test that could be thrown at him?

That would be a godsend to the people who had such concerns.

Im sorry but it's a fictional universe, what could have happened is also called fan fiction.

Yes and this entire thread is exploring an alternate path from established canon.

One that I think does require us to examine the nature behind Kerensky's motives, delve into the uglier side of the Star League, and the uglier side of the TH.

Where we run into additional issues for Kerensky is if he really wanted to have power it would have been a simple enough extra step to just stay and find someone suitable that he could whisper into the ear of as Lord Protector.

Who would have challenged him for doing so?

The Star League council was disbanded.  The House Lords were already committing acts of War against the Terran Hegemony.  The people of the Terran Hegemony would probably have accepted anyone at this point if it meant Kerensky would fulfill his oath to protect them or were too busy ensuring their survival in the face of invasion by House troops.

So yeah I think he would have stayed if his hand was forced.

[Colt Ward]

Actually in the court of the Star League it seems you can.  Everything I have ever read about Kerensky gives me the picture of a man incapable of playing the political game beyond engendering a cult of personality and others saw this and thought they could use it to their advantage.

There was real concern about a disloyal/subverted SLDF turning on the TH at the time too.  So someone promoted beyond his abilities either politically or militarily but had the charisma to keep the troops in line and passed every loyalty test that could be thrown at him?

That would be a godsend to the people who had such concerns.

Problem is, I am not talking about promoting from a 1 star general to 2 star . . . I am talking about getting rank beyond Captain or Major.  Politics in the military is not about . . . well, I do not know the Hegemony political divisions but to use normal ones- expansionist vs isolationist movements like it would be in the political arena.  So its not about following a political ideology but stuff like the requisitions/purchasing, Star League military dynasties (which he seems to have gotten along with), and postings.  FREX, IRL you have certain career tracks as a officer that will speed or slow your promotion rate- combat command counts for more with the promotion board compared to being CO for a logistics unit that is not in a combat zone.  So a officer that wants to get promoted will use his connections & favors to be in command or operations slots for units being deployed to a combat zone and to avoid being a staff officer for logistics/supply/admin for a non-deployable unit.  I have heard of a senior enlisted getting on a mission with a deploying unit so that when he arrived in the combat zone, flags were lifted and he could be promoted outside the zone- he volunteered for the mission knowing he could exploit that loophole to get promoted.  Similarly I knew a guy who was a LONG time E4 that was actively blocked from being promoted to Sergeant (8 years? 9 years?) until someone ended up in the pipeline who was not in on the plan . . . and he got promoted.  LMAO, and lost it literally two months later for a colossal screw up.

If Kerensky had not been any good at his service politics, he would not have risen past a being a low level field grade officer- we would never have heard of Colonel Kerensky.  But he was able to play politics with the factions of the SLDF- at least enough to avoid entanglements and dead-end assignments- to rise high enough in rank to GET noticed as a-political (for Star League Court politics) . . . but nobody is ever devoid of politics.  So he may not have played at politics like McClellan or others, but Kerensky was not without some political skill.

[ActionButler]

Ooookay, guys.

Let's take a little time out so the mods can sort through all of the reports that this topic generated in the last few hours.