DropShip of the Week: Castrum

[A. Lurker]

Wow, i just realize that some of those missile weighs as much as a small craft.

Could a Castrum dock with another cargo dropship like a Mammoth or something?

Yes (StratOps pp. 66-68). As I understand it, DropShips can dock with each other using either the same connectors they'd use to dock with a JumpShip or just by connecting bay doors. It's worth noting, though, that actually transferring cargo from one ship to another is apt to be a slow process -- there's special gear for zero-G operations, but that at best cancels out some of the penalty for operating in freefall.

[Weirdo]

Could a Castrum dock with another cargo dropship like a Mammoth or something?

Anything with a docking collar or any kind of bay door. Qualifier: I don't know if the two-collar quirk only applies to jumping, or if you'd need two collars/doors for this kind of docking as well. Probably not, given that far larger units can dock with each other and only need one collar/door to do so.

[Maingunnery]

MMmmmm.... How would a Castrum taskforce/squadron look like?

[Alanith]

Anything with a docking collar or any kind of bay door. Qualifier: I don't know if the two-collar quirk only applies to jumping, or if you'd need two collars/doors for this kind of docking as well. Probably not, given that far larger units can dock with each other and only need one collar/door to do so.

I'd argue you might if you were under high thrust, but I can't see you needing two if you were just in a peaceful orbit.

[Weirdo]

If you're under any thrust at all, you don't dock. The stresses involved are like building two skyscrapers. One is built normally, the other is built sticking horizontally out the 50th floor of the first, with no extra structural bracing.

[Jackmc]

If you're under any thrust at all, you don't dock. The stresses involved are like building two skyscrapers. One is built normally, the other is built sticking horizontally out the 50th floor of the first, with no extra structural bracing.

Point of order: You can't thrust unless you have a tug adapter which is why a good Underway Replenishment Ship includes one.  Why transfer cargo in 0-G when you don't have to?

-Jackmc

[Weirdo]

Odd that no such ships exist, then. We've got a few tugs, but none have the kind of cargo bays that would really prove useful for this role.

[Liam's Ghost]

Point of order: You can't thrust unless you have a tug adapter which is why a good Underway Replenishment Ship includes one.  Why transfer cargo in 0-G when you don't have to?

-Jackmc

I don't know, capital missiles are pretty heavy...

[Jackmc]

Odd that no such ships exist, then. We've got a few tugs, but none have the kind of cargo bays that would really prove useful for this role.

One can always hope that now that it has become ok to produce optimized canonical designs that we will see one some day.  I can tell you from experience that it makes cargo transfers so much easier and you'll wonder how you ever used a Vengeance without one.  :)   

-Jackmc

[Arkansas Warrior]

One can always hope that now that it has become ok to produce optimized canonical designs that we will see one some day.  I can tell you from experience that it makes cargo transfers so much easier and you'll wonder how you ever used a Vengeance without one.  :)   

-Jackmc

You have experience transferring cargo in 0G and 1G? ???

[Issamuel]

Yes we have, and the Castrum runs 154 Armor and 75 Structure.

The Naga in Jellico's test run has 37 Armor and 68 Structure

!!!!!!!!

Wow.... I mean, wow.... look at those Armor and Structure values for AlphaStrike!  :o Unless the damage values are in the Naga's favor, the Naga as a warship is really outclassed by the Castrum!

I love how Alpha Strike rationalize and reduces the complexity for ground combat, and love the fast pace - hence why my gaming group is playing AlphaStrike only games for the BattleTech universe - so I am seriously looking forward to taking a defending taskforce of Republic Castrums out for a spin against a pseudo Returned-WOB Sovetskii Soyuz raiding group.

Can't wait for the cards to be posted on the MUL. Thanks, and really cool Alexander Knight!  O0 :D

[Wrangler]

Rules for Castrum and use of other aerospace units are in the Companion book for Alpha Strike right?

[Giovanni Blasini]

Yes we have, and the Castrum runs 154 Armor and 75 Structure.

The Naga in Jellico's test run has 37 Armor and 68 Structure

That doesn't make any sense at all, unless the Nagai's armor or structure is at a different scale in Alpha Strike.  The Naga has more than four times the damage capacity of its  when compared to the Castrum under Strat Ops rules.

[Wrangler]

That doesn't make any sense at all, unless the Nagai's armor or structure is at a different scale in Alpha Strike.  The Naga has more than four times the damage capacity of its  when compared to the Castrum under Strat Ops rules.

I don't know AS, but it would depend if armor is handled completely same instead of Standard Armor vs Capital Armor changes. AS is simple, soo...i'd imagine it would be the same. But i don't know.

[A. Lurker]

The Naga has...what, 112 points of capital scale armor total? That would about translate to 1,120 points in standard scale, against which the Castrum's total of 4,614 (if the stats I'm looking at are correct in both cases) does in fact look rather more impressive.

What Alpha Strike doesn't seem to account for is the difference between standard and capital-scale structure; it essentially counts WarShips' structural integrity as "only" twice as tough as that of DropShips (one gets its full value as AS structure, the other half).

[Jackmc]

You have experience transferring cargo in 0G and 1G? ???

LOL, believe it or not  yes (sorta).  Way back in the day when I was much yonger and dumber, we used to have a pilot that would do vomit comet-type zero-g dives for us on the ride to altitude and we'd have to put jumpers back into their spots before the zero-G ended.  We did that until the dzo found out and had a conversation with us about the stress that was putting on an airframe that was never designed for it.

Game-wise, yes  The logistics and economics side of BT have been my focus for over a decade now and the speed of cargo transfers directly impacts both.

-Jackmc

[Alexander Knight]

What Alpha Strike doesn't seem to account for is the difference between standard and capital-scale structure; it essentially counts WarShips' structural integrity as "only" twice as tough as that of DropShips (one gets its full value as AS structure, the other half).

Well, it *does* (as you say, it counts differently for each).  Just not the 10/1 scale

[A. Lurker]

Well, it *does* (as you say, it counts differently for each).  Just not the 10/1 scale

In fairness, it does make them tougher than BattleForce did. There they had, what, a .66 multiplier instead of the .5 DropShips got?

Still, it was enough to get me started on a small chase to confirm that WarShip structural integrity actually is "capital-scale" in regular play (after all, it could theoretically easily be that that's just the armor, and I'm not that familiar with those rules...).

[Phobos]

Well, it *does* (as you say, it counts differently for each).  Just not the 10/1 scale

I really wonder what the reasoning behind this is. Seems pretty arbitrary tbh.

[Wrangler]

I'd like too know big a formation typically a Castrum usually occupies.

If it's a command ship, holding center....typically a dropship squadron is four ships.  So you'd have Castrum, with it's long-range firepower and aircraft carrier abilities, with Tiamat II proving escort abilities while you have two Dragau IIs act as interceptors.

Other ships i've read to be with the border fleet is Achilles (3088) which has to imported i think from Draconis Combine or u can add Interdictors. Which all have variants with Naval C3.   Leopard CV been used as well.   

When they sent a special fleet to Irece Prefecture in the aftermath of the 2nd Combine-Dominion War, Castrums were used i think in Pairs to prove fire support above and below against anyone causing trouble.  Strickly sticking with ships Republib built, i'd send pair of Dragau IIs to round out a Dropship Squadron.   I'd love read up what they would really employ.  I'd imagine the DropShip squadrons would have be specialize into handling certain cituations verse being all general use.

[Hellraiser]

I'd like too know big a formation typically a Castrum usually occupies.

If it's a command ship, holding center....typically a dropship squadron is four ships.  So you'd have Castrum, with it's long-range firepower and aircraft carrier abilities, with Tiamat II proving escort abilities while you have two Dragau IIs act as interceptors.

Other ships i've read to be with the border fleet is Achilles (3088) which has to imported i think from Draconis Combine or u can add Interdictors. Which all have variants with Naval C3.   Leopard CV been used as well.   

When they sent a special fleet to Irece Prefecture in the aftermath of the 2nd Combine-Dominion War, Castrums were used i think in Pairs to prove fire support above and below against anyone causing trouble.  Strickly sticking with ships Republib built, i'd send pair of Dragau IIs to round out a Dropship Squadron.   I'd love read up what they would really employ.  I'd imagine the DropShip squadrons would have be specialize into handling certain cituations verse being all general use.

I actually just posted this in another thread in response to something Jell said & was referred to this thread & saw this which relates so forgive the Threadcromancy.

I think people are imagining four Castrums in a battle when you might get one in a squadron. There are rarer than Vengeances. 

I would think the standard rate would be something like 1-2 Castrums in each of the Naval-C3 formations.
A combo of "Tank/FireSupport" for the remaining ships that act as Spotter/FireSupport depending on the ship.

I could picture a 6-ship squadron looking something like this...  (I forget what all carries Naval-C3 outside of the below)
1-2 Castrum
1-2 Tiamat
1-2 Dragau
0-1 Achilles

For the above, I'm totally assuming that Naval-C3 is a 6 ship thing like C3i, and I'm not sure about that, and I don't have my rulebooks on hand to check it.

I would imagine that not every boarder fleet is set up around C3, or perhaps that each "fleet" has multiple squadrons & maybe 1 of them has C3 while the rest are made of of CV's & non-C3 assault droppers.

I could imagine added squadrons that looks something like these.

1x Vengeance
4x Avenger/Dragau/Intruder
1x Mule

or

3x Leo-CV
2x Interdictor
1x Mule


You've got Naval-C3 pure gunboat squadrons, Heavy-CV+Interceptor squadrons & Light-CV+HeavyInterdictor squadrons.

Mixing together 2-3 of those should give you plenty of "roaming defense" fleets for the RotS Boarders.

[Wrangler]

Well, this is pleasant surprise response.

I did a test many years ago having squadron 4 Castrums vs a single Feng Huang Class Cruiser.   This attached picture is a meme, but its actually the result of the said engagement.



In nut shell, i wasn't using the ECM capacities as I should have (I still bit wet-behind-the-ears on Aerospace stuff sadly). No fighters were deployed either.

Historically, there still more Castrums than there are Feng Huang Class Cruisers.  So its may live up to the test.

[Weirdo]

Was it an original Feng, or the late 60s upgrade?

[Wrangler]

Was it an original Feng, or the late 60s upgrade?

If i remember right, it was the original one.  I'm not 100% for sure, but test result was real and brutal.

EDIT  It was the upgraded one, I posted this picture originally in MegaMek's Crazy hits[/ur].

[Hellraiser]

I remember that Meme.

And I remember thinking those are some disturbing results & that the Castrum was "SCARY" good.

[Hellraiser]

You know, I'm wondering something.

I don't have the rules but, I'm curious how viable the Castrum would be as a crewed "Caspar Command Ship".

It already takes up too many collars to want to move them all the time, and many feel they are only good for fixed point defense....

So remove the Naval-C3 for Drone Command Controls & put a squadron of the original Tiamat/Dragau ships under them?

I actually don't even recall if the WoB had a DS for both Combat & Command.

I recall the converted Destroyer & some Space Stations, but not if they had a mobile DS for squadron command.

[Weirdo]

They did not have any command DropShips. My guess is the Nagas did the trick at the most important areas in the Sol system, and Drake stations are cheap enough to be built everywhere else Caspar II had a presence. Remember, the WoB's defensive plan was named Maginot, which should tell you a lot about their plans regarding static vs mobile defenses.

[Hellraiser]

Thanks, I couldn't recall all the options for Command.

I was also thinking about that it was deployable to other worlds, maybe somewhere doesn't have the shipyard to build the Drake.

That said, I just like the idea of being able to change the squadron orders based on unfolding events seen by the HQ ship on system patrol v/s not using the drones for patrol or having to wait long minutes for transmissions from 1+ AU away.

[mbear]

Is the Castrum a good platform for orbital fire support? How do the SCC's compare to NLs/NACs (aside from the obvious damage)?

[Weirdo]

If it reaches Long Range, it works just as well as any other bay.

Honestly, the best platforms for capital fire are either big WarShips that can blanket an area with fire, or DropShips that can descend into the high atmosphere and make high-accuracy shots while still avoiding ground AA. If you play with quirks, Castrums are neither, though the argument can be made that it's easier to gather enough Castrums to mimic a battleship than it is to actually get said BB into service.