Explain To Me How The Merc Trade Works In BT

[Colt Ward]

To bring this back up . . . I came up with another area/reason mercs get hired . . .

Depending on how the planet is set up, you could have the planet's head noble/ruler/council limiting the number of armed retainers subservient nobles/polities could have on hand.  This limits the strength of those who might rebel though it also limits the strength the planetary ruler can call on based on their oaths.  So if a noble is staying with in the law (ex England's 1468 law and Henry's clarifications in 1487 & 1504) which limits what sort of forces they can have on hand, well if you are planning a rebellion you will need formed troops from somewhere . . .

Say as an example you can have only a company of mechs, none assault weight, and two companies of infantry- not to be Jump, Airborne trained or mechanized (IE not supported or moved by IFV/ISV).  If desired the noble might replace a mech in the bodyguard company with a pair of combat vehicles, again none of assault class, for a maximum of 24 vehicles.  No noble will be permitted aerospace fighters or conventional fighters though they can have two armed small craft and a maximum of four armed VTOLs which are restricted to light ACs, MGs, SRMs & LRMs.  No one shall be allowed any artillery of any sort.  No noble shall have any water vessel over 200t nor armed in any manner except as permitted to VTOLs.

So either you break the law and raise your own forces in your fief (where does the equipment come from & how does it get past customs) or you send a emissary in secret off planet to go hire mercs using money you also managed to secretly transfer off planet.  And its a LOT easier to get specie off planet than it is to ship weapons on planet.

[idea weenie]

You can also use the mercs as a fun excuse.
"No, I don't have extra weapons being given to my armsmen.  Those weapons belong to the mercs and are strictly for use in a training setting, as all the weapons are turned back in at the end of each day"

The noble just never happens to mention that there is a crate with gold bars near the merc dropship and an understanding that if things go bad, the mercs load up that crate of gold while the locals grab the guns.  The key is for the mercs to not get pegged as thieves, one idea might be where the noble 'coincidentally' had some gold nearby when the trouble started, and used that to buy the guns under the 'emergency access clause'.

[Colt Ward]

It takes more than weapons to make soldiers . . . if they are not trained to use them and cooperative tactics then its just a armed mob.

[Kit deSummersville]

We have rules for mobs, too.

[Kovax]

Of course, the local minor noble could rotate his troops, so he's only got 2 companies of infantry AT A TIME, but has trained up 6 more companies over the past 5 years.  Every 6 months, he releases 75% of his infantry back to their former jobs, and hires new recruits.  At the end of it, he's got 8 companies of active troops and trained reserves that he can call up, if he can get the weapons to arm all of them.

That's where the mercenaries come in: they serve out their contract, and at the end of it, leave without a lot of their smaller stuff.  It's hard to smuggle weapons onto the planet through Customs, but who notices when you're bringing them in legally and then NOT taking a portion of them with you when you leave?  The 'Mechs are pretty obvious, and the ones that arrive are very plainly the same ones that leave.  The small arms, not so obvious.

The next merc group that shows up in their place is hired with the unadvertised intent to assist the rebellion.  Now the noble has the 'Mechs and vehicles at his command (the new Mercenaries) for combat in the field, plus the armed and trained infantry (his reserves, called up) to take and hold the cities.

[massey]

Merc units provide nobles and the Great Houses with a military force that still grants you plausible deniability.  Want to attack your neighbor but don't want attacked in response?  Mercs.  Need to wipe out some rebels that are kinda popular with the locals?  Mercs.  Need somebody to attack an "ally" who you don't really like?  Mercs.  Need somebody to reinforce your lands in an emergency after you spent the money that was supposed to go towards maintaining your armies on cocaine instead?  Mercs.

Mercs give you a well-trained, instant army whenever and wherever you need it.  You also get access to specialized forces that you might not normally use.  I'm sure you can hire somebody who has a company of Crusaders that have replaced all their missile launchers with torpedoes.  Really really useful in the right situation, but not exactly something you'd need to purchase and maintain for yourself.  These guys only do amphibious assault and defense, nothing else.  And they probably get a lot of work across the Inner Sphere, because most people don't need that kind of thing all the time.

What do mercs get out of it?  They get legitimacy.  Are you the 7th son of a minor noble, who isn't going to inherit anything?  Run off with your dad's Locust and join a unit that is blasting off for a world halfway across the Inner Sphere.  Did you just murder somebody and you need to get out of Dodge fast?  Grab a rifle and sign up with a merc security force.  They've got their own transports and nobody is going to ask you for ID.  Are you a skilled mechwarrior who maybe stole somebody else's ride?  Do you want to not be just some House regular who is assigned whatever crap mech the captain wants you to pilot?  Join a merc unit.  Piloting a House mech and you manage to cockpit-crit that enemy Griffin?  Nobody else was around or saw you do it?  Drag that sucker into some heavy woods or into a lake and come back later.  Then join a merc unit.

There would be a never-ending source of generally dissatisfied people who can (at least temporarily) place their hands on some military equipment.  Mercenary work lets you legitimize your ownership of it, even if it's in another nation.  Sergeant Bob Smith stole a Wolverine from his backwater FedSuns militia unit 20 years ago, and nobody ever sees him again.  They sure aren't going to connect him to Ace Ramirez, daring mercenary captain with a mysterious past (with an eyepatch and a cool beard).  That Wolverine has been blasted apart and repaired so many times that none of the serial numbers match anymore.  Bob Smith has a whole new life, and no one will ever be the wiser as long as he never goes back to that dustball planet he left when he was just a kid.

Legitimacy is a very valuable thing.

[SCC]

Merc units provide nobles and the Great Houses with a military force that still grants you plausible deniability.  Want to attack your neighbor but don't want attacked in response?  Mercs.  Need to wipe out some rebels that are kinda popular with the locals?  Mercs.  Need somebody to attack an "ally" who you don't really like?  Mercs.  Need somebody to reinforce your lands in an emergency after you spent the money that was supposed to go towards maintaining your armies on cocaine instead?  Mercs.

Need to get back after someone hired some mercs to attack you? Hire your own mercs to attack their mercs! After all merc contracts need to be a matter of public record after all, otherwise their pirates. After all, legitimacy is a very valuable thing.

What do mercs get out of it?  They get legitimacy.  Are you the 7th son of a minor noble, who isn't going to inherit anything?  Run off with your dad's Locust and join a unit that is blasting off for a world halfway across the Inner Sphere.  Did you just murder somebody and you need to get out of Dodge fast?  Grab a rifle and sign up with a merc security force.  They've got their own transports and nobody is going to ask you for ID.  Are you a skilled mechwarrior who maybe stole somebody else's ride?  Do you want to not be just some House regular who is assigned whatever crap mech the captain wants you to pilot?  Join a merc unit.  Piloting a House mech and you manage to cockpit-crit that enemy Griffin?  Nobody else was around or saw you do it?  Drag that sucker into some heavy woods or into a lake and come back later.  Then join a merc unit.

No reputable merc unit is going to hire anyone with major black marks on their record, and if you stole a 'Mech? Well they'll probably steal it from you.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Need to get back after someone hired some mercs to attack you? Hire your own mercs to attack their mercs! After all merc contracts need to be a matter of public record after all, otherwise their pirates. After all, legitimacy is a very valuable thing.

I'm going to disagree a bit there, but on grounds of how the contracting is actually done in the BTU.  Which is a very fair point upon which to quibble given the nature of the thread. But here it is: Just because a contract was bonded thru ComStar doesn't mean it's subject to FOIA requests or the BTU equivalent

That being said though, military force is much more acceptable in the BTU than it is in international circles in the real world, and that's a cultural survival from the Ares Conventions that were hammered out in the Age of War.  When the Conventions are mentioned in a historical context, there's usually a mention about how the criticism of those Conventions is that they made warfare a politically viable option of first resort.  I conceptualize this as warfare is pretty much the option you choose when instead you'd take someone to court in the real world.  In the BTU, fighting a raid over an IP breach is as normal as a frivilous lawsuit is today.  A merc company doesn't have any more reason to hide their identity than a lawyer does in the real world.  Especially in late SW contexts, fighting is much more like a ritualized (but very violent) sport than true warfare.. mercs that get beat on the field of battle concede defeat and go on about their business.  Again delving into my headcanon, but I don't imagine mercs generally get any more (or less, to be fair) butthurt about getting beat on the field of battle than sports teams do on the pitch or gridiron.  See the Dragoons-Big Mac rivalry for the main example here.  Of course, the Waco Rangers-Dragoon "rivalry" could be a counterexample, but I like to think of the former being more representative of the merc industry than the latter.  To each one's own.


Something that I've always wrangled with was how exactly Hiring Halls work.  First of all, the Hiring Hall has to be more than a physical compound with negotiation rooms.  It's clearly got to be a network moreso than a location, or else you'd have to physically go back to Galatea or Outreach after every contract to get a new contract.  And sequeing off of that, I also envision a Hiring Hall as having vendors as a significant part of that network.  Vendors that sell everything from mech parts to uniforms to Prickly Pear Rations.  I don't mean to rehash the disagreements I've had with others upthread, but just to reiterate I've always seen the Great House Armies as being only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the military industrial market.  If you're a defense manufacturer, you'd be crazy to NOT sell to the secondary markets as well.  Besides, I just can't get past the suspension of disbelief for ordering replacement parts from some sort of Space Amazon.com that we've never heard about.  It's that, or the big meta problem of there being people wherever PCs go holding on to valuable military materiel who for some reason only sell to people who happen to be PCs.

Whether or not that all is indeed "true" for the fantasy universe, something I really wrangle with is OPSEC for Hiring Halls.  I know megamek isn't canon, but bear with me here.  From a sample contract, the following information is all present:
1) Which Great House is hiring
2) Which Great House is the target
3) Which planet is the target
4) Start date of the contract
5) What forces exactly they require
6) What forces you'll face

All that info is required for the game to function, whether it's megamek or a RPG.  But here's the thing, that info being viewable by anyone who happens to be walking thru the Hiring Hall (or has passed vetting process for said Hiring Hall) could give that information to the entity listed in 2) and basically render the entire mission militarily unviable.  And there's basically no way to prevent it from happening, not unless your headcanon allows for ComStar to crack any and every cipher ever going out over a HPG.  Now, to be fair, maybe you do.  But even if ComStar sees MIIO or ISF spoiling info back home about a raid coming to one of their House's worlds, would ComStar actually DO anything about it?  Not so sure.  They're getting their brokers' cut no matter what. 

So, the fact that noone ever uses contract info targeting their faction to spoil those contracts seems to indicate it doesn't happen.  The WHY of it just ever seems to go into head canon.  I personally presume that you really don't get all the information presented in a meta sense.  There's serious reasons why you don't dare ever give out each of those 1-6 until the contract is already signed, but there's game balance and even lore reasons why each piece individually has to be given.   You could argue that there's some sort of NDA that a Hiring Hall uses, that way you're obligated to keep military secrets that you glean just by browsing available contracts secret, even if you don't sign said contract(s).  I don't see how it's enforceable without an omniscient ComStar, however.  I kind of like the idea of turning what we've seen in the meta game mechanics on its ear:  a merc captain looking for contracts doesn't to a Space Google search on the Hiring Hall computer boards for available contacts... the Hiring Hall instead has the merc put in his criteria (I won't work for Kurita,  I can put 12 mechs in the field,  I'm available starting on this day,  I'll do these kinds of missions, etc) and then based on the criteria he gets contact info for negotators with pending contracts that meet his search criteria.  Then, in the course of the negotiations face to face (or hologram to hologram, or whatever) the vetting of the mercs can take place and the mercs can begin to get more militarily sensitive info before formally signing on.

[Daryk]

Not providing that hiring hall information up front is a way to justify serious premium charges.  I'd think it actually makes the merc trade economically viable.  And without delving into rule 4 territory, I'd say the BT universe is more averse to using military force than more than one part of the real world, but that's more based on (lack of) capacity than anything else.  The miniscule size of BT forces has been well debated, and even with the factors you've outlined elsewhere (which I think are all reasonable), they're STILL far smaller than anything we have now.

[SCC]

I'm going to disagree a bit there, but on grounds of how the contracting is actually done in the BTU.  Which is a very fair point upon which to quibble given the nature of the thread. But here it is: Just because a contract was bonded thru ComStar doesn't mean it's subject to FOIA requests or the BTU equivalent

That being said though, military force is much more acceptable in the BTU than it is in international circles in the real world, and that's a cultural survival from the Ares Conventions that were hammered out in the Age of War.  When the Conventions are mentioned in a historical context, there's usually a mention about how the criticism of those Conventions is that they made warfare a politically viable option of first resort.  -Snip-

Actually there would have to be something like FOIA, the target would be able to demand that C* produce proof of any contract or be well within their rights to declare the group responsible pirates/outlaws. Furthermore they'd be able to demand the terms in order to determine if the group did something they were NOT hired to do, and under the Ares Conventions I can imagine that things like blocking traffic and littering might get you in trouble. And those criticisms? Well why hasn't violence stopped be a politically viable option of first resort?

So, the fact that noone ever uses contract info targeting their faction to spoil those contracts seems to indicate it doesn't happen.  The WHY of it just ever seems to go into head canon.  I personally presume that you really don't get all the information presented in a meta sense.  There's serious reasons why you don't dare ever give out each of those 1-6 until the contract is already signed, but there's game balance and even lore reasons why each piece individually has to be given.   You could argue that there's some sort of NDA that a Hiring Hall uses, that way you're obligated to keep military secrets that you glean just by browsing available contracts secret, even if you don't sign said contract(s).  I don't see how it's enforceable without an omniscient ComStar, however.  I kind of like the idea of turning what we've seen in the meta game mechanics on its ear:  a merc captain looking for contracts doesn't to a Space Google search on the Hiring Hall computer boards for available contacts... the Hiring Hall instead has the merc put in his criteria (I won't work for Kurita,  I can put 12 mechs in the field,  I'm available starting on this day,  I'll do these kinds of missions, etc) and then based on the criteria he gets contact info for negotators with pending contracts that meet his search criteria.  Then, in the course of the negotiations face to face (or hologram to hologram, or whatever) the vetting of the mercs can take place and the mercs can begin to get more militarily sensitive info before formally signing on.

I'd make the argument that short term mercs aren't hired on for those sorts of things, rather their hired to plug the gaps caused by pulling other forces out of their garrisons for the raid.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Actually there would have to be something like FOIA, the target would be able to demand that C* produce proof of any contract or be well within their rights to declare the group responsible pirates/outlaws. Furthermore they'd be able to demand the terms in order to determine if the group did something they were NOT hired to do, and under the Ares Conventions I can imagine that things like blocking traffic and littering might get you in trouble.

Generally I agree.  Legit mercs will be able to provide a ComStar/MRBC verified assessment of the company to prospective employers.  Services of being independently assessed are surely covered by the membership dues mercs pay to BE bonded and/or registered via Hiring Halls.   I'd imagine these "resumes" include things like an independently verified assessment of the numbers of mechwarriors, experience levels of pilots and the unit in aggregate, and so on... including a record of success (or lack thereof) on prior bonded contracts.  Everything that's wrapped up into what would later become "Dragoons ratings".  That way you're not solely taking the mercs' words for what the mercs have done and are capable of.

I'd just quibble that ComStar is any where near open enough to provide that same information to someone just for the asking, outside the context of being seriously interested in hiring the said mercenaries.  I'd also think that missions done "off the books" away from ComStar or Hiring Hall aegis would of course remain militarily secret between merc and employer.

And those criticisms [of the Ares Conventions]? Well why hasn't violence stopped be a politically viable option of first resort?

The why is basically best answered as meta: it's more fun to have a game where openly stomping with warbots is more fun than a game where you have to engage in cloak and daggers to justify getting to the stompy action.   The how?  Well I mentioned it upthread... I think it's simply a cultural survival.  Inertia, in other words.

I'd make the argument that short term mercs aren't hired on for those sorts of things, rather their hired to plug the gaps caused by pulling other forces out of their garrisons for the raid.

I'd agree with ya here.  It makes much more sense for small companies to hire on simply "as retainer", and then do short term contracts with their employer on a provisional basis as necessary.  (hey, our last Recon Raid shows that the 69th Arcturan Hussars aren't currently in-garrison... we've got a now-or-never opportunity to sneak a small force like yours in to raid their under-guarded supply depots before they return...  You game for the mission?)  Of course this sort of arrangement doesn't fit neatly in with the established Hiring Hall lore, though.

[Daemion]

I'd agree with ya here.  It makes much more sense for small companies to hire on simply "as retainer", and then do short term contracts with their employer on a provisional basis as necessary.  (hey, our last Recon Raid shows that the 69th Arcturan Hussars aren't currently in-garrison... we've got a now-or-never opportunity to sneak a small force like yours in to raid their under-guarded supply depots before they return...  You game for the mission?)  Of course this sort of arrangement doesn't fit neatly in with the established Hiring Hall lore, though.

Well, it could as long as the retainer contract is what the hiring hall issued to any and all merc units. In fact, I imagine that's a vast majority of the open business end. They're hired on by a particular party for a period of time to handle a wide variety of potential combat situations, including but not limited to... and insert list.

[William J. Pennington]

Its alway is been hard to undertstand Mercs at times. In a pure economic sense, aunit commander could sell his assetts and live  a life of worry free luxury just off ther interest or a handful of mechs or dropships.

But, if you've ever played Shadowrun, you get a similar concept.  High level shadowruners usually have enough gear and cynberware they coudl purchase a permanent luxury lifestyle. But they do what they do because of the life of a shadowrunner.

So, in the end, the main motivation is: poor economic sense, and a perverse attraction to the lifestyle, and a growing attachment to the merc unit that surpoasses any tie to a nation, planet, and for some, it becomes a family.  They love what they do, and particulalry don't care too much who they do it for..as long as the employer adheres to a few basic rules.

Making money is, oddly enough, not ultimately keeps a merc in the merc life. Its not being able to imagine living any other way.

[massey]

I explain away the money issue with the idea that a powerful merc is really looking to ascend to the status of nobility.

If I'm Joe the mechwarrior with a basic Griffin, I could sell it and get about 5 million c-bills.  That's 25 million bucks in like 1990 money.  You could live a life of luxury real easy on that.  Of course, as a no-longer-mechwarrior, you're just gonna settle down on some planet, and probably get creamed on taxes.  The respect, the power, all the status you once had is basically gone.  Yeah the money may be nice (even after taxes), but what are you gonna do except just buy a cool car and a nice house?

That's presuming you own your mech legally, which (as I've already indicated) a lot of mercs might not.  Selling the thing before you've had the chance to properly launder it and scrape off all the serial numbers might get you caught.  So you probably have to be a merc for a little while first before you can cash out.

But... let's say you stick with it for several years.  Despite what the game might show (where every battle is between equal forces and you lose most of your mechs), most merc contracts are probably pretty easy.  Low risk.  It's the really exciting ones that stand out, but a well-executed raid probably pays well and you don't have that much risk of getting killed.  Eventually you might earn enough money so that you're both rich and you keep your mech.

Of course, a lot of guys luck runs out eventually, but they don't think about that most of the time.

A guy who has been successful for a long time might end up earning himself a title, and that's where the real money comes in.  The guys who hit it rich, hit it super super super rich.

[AlphaMirage]

I explain away the money issue with the idea that a powerful merc is really looking to ascend to the status of nobility.

If I'm Joe the mechwarrior with a basic Griffin, I could sell it and get about 5 million c-bills.  That's 25 million bucks in like 1990 money.  You could live a life of luxury real easy on that.  Of course, as a no-longer-mechwarrior, you're just gonna settle down on some planet, and probably get creamed on taxes.  The respect, the power, all the status you once had is basically gone.  Yeah the money may be nice (even after taxes), but what are you gonna do except just buy a cool car and a nice house?

That's presuming you own your mech legally, which (as I've already indicated) a lot of mercs might not.  Selling the thing before you've had the chance to properly launder it and scrape off all the serial numbers might get you caught.  So you probably have to be a merc for a little while first before you can cash out.

But... let's say you stick with it for several years.  Despite what the game might show (where every battle is between equal forces and you lose most of your mechs), most merc contracts are probably pretty easy.  Low risk.  It's the really exciting ones that stand out, but a well-executed raid probably pays well and you don't have that much risk of getting killed.  Eventually you might earn enough money so that you're both rich and you keep your mech.

Of course, a lot of guys luck runs out eventually, but they don't think about that most of the time.

A guy who has been successful for a long time might end up earning himself a title, and that's where the real money comes in.  The guys who hit it rich, hit it super super super rich.

A million times this is my typical explanation, you probably don't want to be a professional soldier all your life.  You do Merc work to pay the bills, see new people and places, take really nice Canopian vacations (Premium package, ka'ching) and eventually buy out your mech from the unit taking a job teaching at whatever your Successor State's equivalent to a Combat Training Center is for the next group of Patriots.  The losers become pirates or dispossessed waiting for another Merc group with a salvage Mech that needs a pilot (which are supposedly rare, like 1 in a million rare). 

[SteelRaven]

Well, BT is nothing like real life. I'm sure plenty of no name characters retired but fans seem to find big names living to a rip old age and not dying a violent death more odd.

[Kidd]

I've used this trope often in writing character histories: mercs are soldiers. They are good (or think they are) at what they do - soldiering. Other trades they either dislike or do not have the skills/qualifications to do. What can an ex-soldier do anyway, be a mall cop? So that is what they do.

That settles motive. On the topic of means/resources/wealth: that's best answered by asking around, "what would you do if you had a million dollars?" Most people would basically retire on that money, or use it for immediate short/medium-term gains including buying apparel, cars, a house. But there are a few who would use that wealth to start a business or invest.

In a nutshell, mercs are ex-soldiers with an entrepreneurial spirit and the wherewithal to make the attempt.

[skiltao]

Without disagreeing with any of the other motivations already suggested, I think it's also true in the BattleTech universe that a BattleMech isn't a bad investment of wealth. It represents stable employment not just for you but for generations of your extended family, and any civilian equivalent in cash or assets is - I think - held to be even riskier and more volatile.

Actually there would have to be something like FOIA, the target would be able to demand that C* produce proof of any contract or be well within their rights to declare the group responsible pirates/outlaws. Furthermore they'd be able to demand the terms in order to determine if the group did something they were NOT hired to do

What does it matter if they were contracted to do the thing or not? If the thing they did is abhorrent, the targeted House will undertake punitive strikes and set bounties anyways.

[SCC]

What does it matter if they were contracted to do the thing or not? If the thing they did is abhorrent, the targeted House will undertake punitive strikes and set bounties anyways.

If the DC contracts the Dragoons to raid FS planets and steal military supplies that's fine, they're covered by the contract as legal combatants, but if the Dragoons raid FS planets to steal supplies without a contract, like what actually happened before Misery, then that's theft and probably murder assuming that people where killed in the raid.

[massey]

There are a lot of questions about how nations maintain operational security in an open merc market.  What's to stop the Fed Suns from creating "Bob's Blasters" as a merc company, and just look and see who is hiring and for what?

We just have to shrug and say that somehow things work out.

Regarding the Houses auditing the hiring records, you don't need that.  Nobody has to tell House Kurita that "oh yeah, those Davion boys hired these guys to do this job".  Instead they'd just contact Comstar, and Comstar would confirm that Billy's Badasses were under contract at the time a given mission happened.  Realistically, probably nobody bothers with that.  Highly rated merc units are almost always under contract.  F-rated units are just a step above pirates anyway, and nobody is going to care if you hit them for tearing up your stuff.

[Kidd]

There are a lot of questions about how nations maintain operational security in an open merc market.  What's to stop the Fed Suns from creating "Bob's Blasters" as a merc company, and just look and see who is hiring and for what?

Merc hiring is probably not an open-tender process. More like backroom personal negotiation via selected known intermediaries and representatives.

Yes, the various State intelligence agencies would definitely try to infiltrate the processes, and spend equal effort ensuring their prospective employees haven't been penetrated by other agencies. Likewise Comstar/Dragoons would be doing the same to keep such shenanigans to a minimum, for their own good name... welcome to the spy game :D

...nobody is going to care if you hit them for tearing up your stuff.

possibly, as with insurance companies and unions, the MRB/MRBC sets higher fees for future contracts. If employers do not play nice with the employees, employers pay more. No, you cannot summarily execute mercs for "violations" without going through adjudication. Oh you did? Well then the next bunch of mercs are going to demand higher pay, AND there'll be an extra 15% on the MRB/MRBC brokerage fee.

though with this industry and this being Battletech, I imagine this is all largely nominal and there is very wide latitude for unacceptable behaviour. Kurita got away with "Death To Mercenaries" for quite some time, after all...

[Tai Dai Cultist]

If the DC contracts the Dragoons to raid FS planets and steal military supplies that's fine, they're covered by the contract as legal combatants, but if the Dragoons raid FS planets to steal supplies without a contract, like what actually happened before Misery, then that's theft and probably murder assuming that people where killed in the raid.

I'm not on board with putting the distinction between acceptable and unacceptable military action on the basis of whether or not there was a legit/bonded contract for said action.

Why?  Because, as I mentioned previously,  violence is an acceptable option of first resort.  I'm going to argue that actors like nobles and corporations can execute moves against their rivals with battlemechs rather than lawyers.  The (original, and also now corrected) Amphigean Light Assault Group background lore explicitly confirms this, as those mech regiments began as "corporate security" rented out as leg breakers for corporate-scale loan sharking.  This being the case, I'd also argue that actors like merc captains and House army field commanders fit exactly in to this category of actors who are permitted to unleash the mechs on a target without formally explicit sanction.  The nature of communications in the BTU means military operations are fundamentally not like modern/real world ops where commands are explicitly given from national HQ, and actions are monitored real time from the same.  The BTU is more like ages past, where field (and naval) commanders are given broadly and generally worded orders.  There's no time for a mech regiment CO to relay back to Luthien or New Avalon about an opportunity that just presented itself and to receive permission to go capitalize upon it... they are authorized and expected to just act (in accordance with those broadly, generally worded orders).

So yeah I'd argue that someone of the social elevation of a colonel or major (whether House, Merc, or otherwise) is perfectly "fine" making naked grabs for whatever floats his fancy.  The more 'egregious' the breach of peace of course, the more eloquence and political clout may be necessary afterwords to beg forgiveness, granted.  But so long as the fighting itself is what's generally deemed as acceptable conduct, there's no fallout there for the mechwarriors.

Bringing it back to the quoted post:  I'd say that the difference between "legit" mercs and bandits/pirates is actually fuzzy.  It's based on behavior rather than legal/financial status, and can be influenced by the eye of the beholder.  If you're sore about how a merc company conducted themselves against you, you certainly might take it up with ComStar/MRBC.  But they're not an impartial party, and if you're either not sure ComStar will play it straight or if you're sure you'd lose a grievance if they did, you just call them whatever you want and put bounties out there regardless.

[Kidd]

So yeah I'd argue that someone of the social elevation of a colonel or major (whether House, Merc, or otherwise) is perfectly "fine" making naked grabs for whatever floats his fancy.  The more 'egregious' the breach of peace of course, the more eloquence and political clout may be necessary afterwords to beg forgiveness, granted.  But so long as the fighting itself is what's generally deemed as acceptable conduct, there's no fallout there for the mechwarriors.

Sure. Just know that that sword cuts both ways: it would also be "acceptable conduct" for someone else to wipe out said colonel in turn.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Sure. Just know that that sword cuts both ways: it would also be "acceptable conduct" for someone else to wipe out said colonel in turn.

Exactly.

Or put a bounty on him, if one doesn't have the forces available/in position to do so.  Bounties being thrown tit for tat across the FS/DC border was a recurring point in early materials.

[massey]

possibly, as with insurance companies and unions, the MRB/MRBC sets higher fees for future contracts. If employers do not play nice with the employees, employers pay more. No, you cannot summarily execute mercs for "violations" without going through adjudication. Oh you did? Well then the next bunch of mercs are going to demand higher pay, AND there'll be an extra 15% on the MRB/MRBC brokerage fee.

though with this industry and this being Battletech, I imagine this is all largely nominal and there is very wide latitude for unacceptable behaviour. Kurita got away with "Death To Mercenaries" for quite some time, after all...

What I mean is let's say some unit comes in and raids your planet.  And in addition to stealing the prototype flux capacitor or whatever, they think it's a good idea to blow up some oil refineries, launch an LRM-20 salvo into an orphanage, and loot and pillage on their way out.  The type of scenario that SCC was suggesting.

An A-rated unit is not going to do that, unless they were specifically hired to do it.  But some F-rated unit very well might.  SCC's point was that if you're the target of that raid, you're going to want to know if they had a legitimate contract for that attack.  I don't think it matters.  Nobody's gonna miss Gary's Gunmen, an F-rated company of ramshackle mechs piloted by a crew of no-good nimrods.  If the Draconis Combine wants to declare them pirates, then hunt them down and wipe them out, nobody is going to stand up for Gary's Gunmen.  It doesn't matter if they have a contract or not.

But good luck trying that on someone with a good name.

[Kidd]

But good luck trying that on someone with a good name.

Yeah, that's where I'm getting at.

I prefer figuring out the stated nominal rules of the system, and only then find out how it's undermined and subverted. In this case, as you say; if it's some no-name band, no one will care.

[Daryk]

*snip*
The BTU is more like ages past, where field (and especially naval) commanders are given broadly and generally worded orders.
*snip*

Hence "maintain" a Navy, and "raise" Armies...

[SCC]

I'm not on board with putting the distinction between acceptable and unacceptable military action on the basis of whether or not there was a legit/bonded contract for said action.

You do realize that means that anyone who can claim to be a merc can now commit any crime and face ZERO consequences. And such distinctions have been in the game since the Wacco Rangers/Dragoons feud started and their codified in the current rules.

What I mean is let's say some unit comes in and raids your planet.  And in addition to stealing the prototype flux capacitor or whatever, they think it's a good idea to blow up some oil refineries, launch an LRM-20 salvo into an orphanage, and loot and pillage on their way out.  The type of scenario that SCC was suggesting.

Yep, but if they didn't have a contract to steal the capacitor that's another crime as well.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

I'm not on board with putting the distinction between acceptable and unacceptable military action on the basis of whether or not there was a legit/bonded contract for said action.

You do realize that means that anyone who can claim to be a merc can now commit any crime and face ZERO consequences. And such distinctions have been in the game since the Wacco Rangers/Dragoons feud started and their codified in the current rules.

We may not be exactly on the same page here.  I was saying that in the BTU, launching military action in of itself wouldn't be considered a crime.  Now, taking actions like deliberately stomping on ejected pilots may or may not be formally considered a crime in the post Ares-conventions timeline, and certain actions like raping and pillaging almost certainly would still be.  But even when such individual behavior rises to the level of being deemed criminal by one party, it doesn't necessarily follow that the patronizing party will agree.  They could insist that the rules of engagement permitted (or even required) the "crime" to occur or decline to agree that the behavior was criminal in nature at all.  Jurisdiction in such cases where the crime wasn't egregious enough for the patron party to take their own sanction against the force/commander/pilot in question makes actual prosecution impossible unless they return to "the scene of the crime" on yet another raid, and then there's the obvious problem of how exactly are police to actually apprehend a bunch of mechwarriors loaded for bear ;)

Theft is a particularly tricky one. If there's a bonded contract to go steal the next planet over's water filters, obviously there's no "theft" in the criminal sense.  It was a military op, and by both mine and yours points of view that's legit/above board.  However, I'm saying that if the raid occurs without a bonded contract (or explicit orders from interstellar HQ serving as the legal equivalent for a House unit) it's still treated the same way as a "legit" military op.  The other side can get upset about the theft, but there's bugger all they can do about it directly.  Launch reprisal raids, yes.  Place bounties, yes.  We see both in the lore.  Theft gets even trickier, as things that aren't the target of an interstellar raid can go under the umbrella of military operations.  You say theft, the accused says "commandeering".  That absolutely goes on.  When the "commandeering" from the local civilians gets out of hand, yes it can get them in trouble.  There's explicit game rules going back to the original Mercenary's Handbook (see page 64).

[massey]

You do realize that means that anyone who can claim to be a merc can now commit any crime and face ZERO consequences. And such distinctions have been in the game since the Wacco Rangers/Dragoons feud started and their codified in the current rules.
Yep, but if they didn't have a contract to steal the capacitor that's another crime as well.

Except you use mercenaries too.  And if these guys are any good, you may want to hire them.

Yes, a Successor State could go after a merc unit if they really wanted.  Make their lives hell.  We saw the Combine do that with Wolf's Dragoons.  Didn't work out too well for them.  Now, against a smaller, less important unit?  Yeah they could probably take them out.  But how many resources are you willing to send after some two-bit merc company?

Besides... you hire units just like that yourself.  Who cares if they stop to rape and pillage a little bit as long as they get the job done?  I mean, if they do a good job, you might want to hire these guys next.

Now the leaders of Dirtball VI might hold a grudge, but so what?  What are they gonna do?  Issue an arrest warrant for the mercenaries?  These guys already rampaged through your city, setting it on fire and doing whatever the hell they wanted.  You obviously don't have the forces necessary to stop them from coming back and making your lives worse.