44th Moon Landing Anniversey

[Stormlion1]

2:56 UTC July 21, 1969, 44 years (more or less) have passed since mankind landed on the moon. Thoughts?

[Mattlov]

'Murica.  ****** yeah.

It is STILL awesome, and hopefully the moon base will be done soon.

[worktroll]

I was in Scotland at the time, making lego Saturn Vs with my friends. I couldn't understand why the Americans failed to follow through.

Now, I understand, but I still grieve for lost opportunities.

Can't go further without breaking Rules.

W.

[JadeHellbringer]

Good timing for them to find the engines a few days ago, wasn't it?

Godspeed, Apollo team, thank you for all you did.

And, of course, thank you, powers that be, for NOT going with the alternative plan (A119) to light off an atomic bomb instead of landing there. Astronauts are a little better of a way of making a statement, wouldn't you agree? ;)

(Google it if you want to know more- Cracked did a great article about it a while back, but due to content I'm not going to link to it here.)

[Stormlion1]

Six years and four days before I was even born. I read The Right Stuff recently and the amount of work and effort that went into the Space Race never fails to astonish me. The sheer effort to build the Mercury Program of shooting Spam in a Can into orbit soon followed by attempting to send a man to the moon in what, ten years just goes to show if humanity wanted to do something, all it has to do is put its nose to the grindstone and damn the cost and it gets done. I wonder whatever happened to that spirit?

[Atlas3060]

I was in Scotland at the time, making lego Saturn Vs with my friends. I couldn't understand why the Americans failed to follow through.

Now, I understand, but I still grieve for lost opportunities.

Can't go further without breaking Rules.

W.

I wonder whatever happened to that spirit?

My fury for the world and how it handles space exploration would cause me to break so many rules right now if I let it loose.
So to counter my anger I'll just simply post a moon related comic that had me busting a gut: http://www.smbc-comics.com/comics/20130717.png

[I am Belch II]

How long until we go back is now the question?

[Stormlion1]

When enough people want it.

[TS_Hawk]

I remember my whole family watching this taking place.

[Stormlion1]

The main problem is people don't want to go. They want to send probes and drones. That's not exploration. That's driving a remote controlled car or playing a video game.
A thousand tourguides don't equal a single trip.

[guardiandashi]

I don't think its the average people don't want to go so much as the people who make the decisions don't want to go.

look at it this way I did a report for a school project over 10 years ago NASA's budget consistently has been UNDER 20 billion /year I know that sounds like a lot of money (and for people like us it is...) but in the same period that I did my research the average budget (annually) for welfare, medicare and medicade (which I am not complaining about at all) was in excess of 400 billion each and every year.

and so many people say things like "well what did NASA ever do for us?" and every time I just about have my jaw drop.  There are so many things we use every day that came out of the space programs the problem is that no one reminds people of that (at least IMO)

anyway I am not going to say any more because I know I will cross the rules :(

[glitterboy2098]

[ANS Kamas P81]

In a feat of amazingly good timing, NASA confirms the F-1 rocket recovered a few months ago was indeed from Apollo 11.
http://www.universetoday.com/103589/apollo-11-f-1-engine-finding-confirmed-by-jeff-bezos-on-eve-of-1st-human-moonwalk/

And in a more somber note, we miss you, Neil.  Hope the view up there is just as good as it was the first time.

[Taurevanime]

The main problem is people don't want to go. They want to send probes and drones. That's not exploration. That's driving a remote controlled car or playing a video game.
A thousand tourguides don't equal a single trip.

Sending people is romantic but wasteful. Sending probes is boring but effective.
You can do a lot more experiments for a longer period with probes than you can with humans. And since you have a limited budget, why waste money being romantic when you can advance science instead?

I would love to see humans return to space beyond low earth orbit, but we should do it for the right reasons.

[Adridos]

When enough people want it.

That's not a requisite. According to the reports, most people saw it as a waste of money back in the day.

The sheer effort to build the Mercury Program of shooting Spam in a Can into orbit soon followed by attempting to send a man to the moon in what, ten years just goes to show if humanity wanted to do something, all it has to do is put its nose to the grindstone and damn the cost and it gets done.

I wonder whatever happened to that spirit?

Nothing. It's still here, but people need a reason to use of it.

Just look at computing technology: the kick (piles of money awaiting for the first one to get to the next level) is there and people race themselves like crazy to best everything before. Compare your mobile with the one from 5 years ago, games today with those from '99, etc.

The same went for the space race, which is unfair to not get thrown into the very well known "war tech". What prompted the rocket research? Efficiency of German V3s. Everyone put 1 to 1 and each side was desperate to get them and stuff them full of nukes. Now I know a bit less about which way it went on overseas, but the guy who did the rocket for Russians had problems continuing with rocket research. "It is capable of sending nukes to the other side, no need to work on it anymore..." was the general response to anything related to rockets until he came up with the idea of a spy satelite. Only once he found a way to actually use the thing in warfare did he get any funding at all... Only after Sputnik got to orbit (barebones compared to what it was intended to be) and the whole world noticed what is possible with the technology did he finally get any clearance to do the research without it having a direct use in warfare... it was now used in the "other" kind of warfare.

Thankfully for us, no major wars are being waged to prompt any kind of hyper advancement in technology and while it's not that easy to find the spirit you talked about, it's still here, unlike centuries before when the only advances came by wars.

[Stormlion1]

Sending people is romantic but wasteful. Sending probes is boring but effective.
You can do a lot more experiments for a longer period with probes than you can with humans. And since you have a limited budget, why waste money being romantic when you can advance science instead?

I would love to see humans return to space beyond low earth orbit, but we should do it for the right reasons.

All very true, but the West wasn't one by sending a single man to the Pacific to take a look see. It was won by people giving up everything and doing something and going somewhere. Not sending one man to take a look see and not come back because he was expendable.
In the words of one man. "We don't do it because its easy, but because it is hard."
The technology levels have advanced by quantum leaps over the years. The Lunar Landers computer was as strong as a Furby from ten years ago. My cell phone which is two years old is equivalent or better to the computers NASA used in the 60's. We have come up with new materials that are lighter and more rugged than was used in the 60's. Communications technology has advanced to such a point we on Earth could watch what they do on the Moon with crystal clarity rather than a few grainy images as we had back in the day. Using the technology of today we could launch a same sized Lunar Lander equivalent that would have half again the room the original had and the space suits would be more versatile and comfortable for the crews and they could enjoy a much longer stay than a few hours or days.
The basic technology is old, we just need to update the specifics. A rocket is a rocket afterall. The end product just needs to be updated. And honestly using off the shelf equipment is a doable thing. A rocket only needs to go up, it doesn't need to come back. The Landers can be updated, just need a few redesigns to make it more efficient.
But I understand cost is the issue, well isn't it better to spend the money now then in twenty years when cost will have skyrocketed?
And yes, I would drop everything to go, I for one want to see whats on the other side of that hill. Were I am at is growing stale.

[worktroll]

Sending people is romantic but wasteful. Sending probes is boring but effective.
You can do a lot more experiments for a longer period with probes than you can with humans. And since you have a limited budget, why waste money being romantic when you can advance science instead?

But you're completely constrained by the equipment built into the probe. If Spirit or Opportunity discovered running water, there's virtually nothing they could do to investigate it. There's a lot of questions about Mars that could very easily be solved by a few people with a back-hoe & shovels, but as you correctly identify, budgets prevent this. However, I see the budget limitation as potentially addressable if enough people cared.

I would love to see humans return to space beyond low earth orbit, but we should do it for the right reasons.

100% agreement there.

[guardiandashi]

I would love to see a long term (potentially permanent) moon base for resources for further expansion/projects into more of the solar system and beyond

[Taurevanime]

Thankfully for us, no major wars are being waged to prompt any kind of hyper advancement in technology and while it's not that easy to find the spirit you talked about, it's still here, unlike centuries before when the only advances came by wars.

Thankfully or sadly? I read a wonderful book on the subject of tech investment (at least in the UK) entitled Cold War, Hot Science: Applied Research in Britain's Defence Laboratories, 1945-1990. (You know a book is going to be very dry when the title itself explains the entire content of the book and is a full sentence or more long)
And the thing you kind of take away is that the Cold War has been (looking back at it) the greatest war for humanity in that it really encouraged advancement of technology, all without any actual combat taking place. Of course the threat of wiping out almost all life and all technology means no one is terribly keen to return to such a state of affairs.

But I am sad to say that wars are still one of the largest driving forces for advancement. Since they cause countries to start grasping at straws and invest in many different plans and ideas. Some of which actually prove to be capable and useful. And others can improve the civilian life when the war ends. It's why I tend to eagerly see what DARPA is funding all the time since they tend to go after making blue sky ideas a reality.

[Bedwyr]

Just a caution guys. I can see about 10 different ways this can turn into a political discussion within about 1 post (dude, that's, like, super fast!). It doesn't have to be acrimonious or argumentative to run afoul teh rules. Do keep close to the tech.

[False Son]

2:56 UTC July 21, 1969, 44 years (more or less) have passed since mankind landed on the moon. Thoughts?

A fantastic acheivement for the species.

[Adridos]

Thankfully or sadly?

"War is sweet to those who have no experience of it, but the experienced man trembles exceedingly at heart on its approach."

2451 years later and this quote still holds true, my friend.

[Lazarus Jaguar]

A little factoid I just read :the American flags planed during the landings are no longer there.  Neil and Buzz both admittedmthey planted theirs too close to their craft and it got knocked over by the jet blast from the rockets when they took off.  The others are still standing, but over the years the dyes in the flags faded due to exposure to sunkight, and thus have effectivly been bleached.

Oh well....

[Prillotashekta]

I visited NASA Johnson Space Center last weekend, and there was a short presentation on "the future of the space program"

In short:
   - Reports of the death of manned spaceflight have been greatly exaggerated, largely "because the media doesn't know the difference between a program and an organization."
   - The shuttle was retired because it had fulfilled its purpose--to build a space station. Now that the station is complete, there's no sense in using the phenomenally expensive shuttle system when there are more cost-effective options.
   - The plan is to keep relying on the Russian Soyuz capsules to get to and from the ISS for the immediate future.
   - Commercial ventures are ramping up. SpaceX is "about a year ahead of anyone else" for getting people to the ISS. I get the impression the goal is to get the private sector to start taking the strain of serving the ISS program.
   - NASA has a program in place for putting humans beyond low earth orbit in the near future.  The Orion craft is being developed for this purpose.
   - Astronauts are already training in the Orion.
   - The rocket (can't remember what is is called) for the Orion will be a hybridization of Saturn-V and Shuttle technologies. Think the upper stages of a Saturn-V with the reusable SRBs from the shuttle strapped to the sides. The command module will use a quartet of the orbital maneuvering engines (those pods either side of the Shuttle's tail) for its thrust. This saves considerably on engineering. 
   - The goal is to use the Orion and launch a manned mission to orbit the moon "by 2020".
   - A lunar landing is not on the table because "that would require an entirely separate program and the development of a new lander."
   - The lunar orbit mission is a step to the goal of sending a manned mission to a near-earth asteroid. Landing on the asteroid is not out of the question.
   - The object of the program is to capture an asteroid and move it to lunar orbit, "because, for future space exploration, asteroids are going to be one of the only source of resources. By capturing one and bringing it to lunar orbit, we can learn how to mine them."
   - A lunar base and manned mission to Mars are not off the table, but are long-term future goals for future projects.

It's actually quite exciting. We're on the cusp of a new wave of manned space exploration.

[False Son]

Oh well...

There were other items left behind, including a plaque reading the message :

Here men from the planet Earth first set foot upon the Moon, July 1969 A.D. We came in peace for all mankind.

Also left behind were the medals of Cosmonauts Komarov and Gagarin.  These three artifacts speek volumes about what an event the moon landing really was.  People tend to get cought up in the Cold War politics of it.  It really was an accomplishment for all of civilization.  In a hundred years we may forget to frame the moon landing in the context of the Cold War and celebrate it without bias.

[Adridos]

Imagine what would happen if some probe found that Mars is full of diamonds/oil/gold.

How many hours would it take to start a program and how many days till it's successful launch (only launch, because a journey to the Mars takes quite a while)?  ;D

[Sabelkatten]

Imagine what would happen if some probe found that Mars is full of diamonds/oil/gold.

How many hours would it take to start a program and how many days till it's successful launch (only launch, because a journey to the Mars takes quite a while)?  ;D

Very long.

Oil simply isn't valuable enough, and the other two are mostly valuable due to scarcity - the actual market for either is really quite small.

If one of the asteroid mining projects finds that there actually are a lot of rare earth minerals on the asteroids, then you might start seeing a lot of activity, thought!

[Prillotashekta]

Rare-earth minerals aren't even that rare quantity-wise, they're mostly just expensive to extract and refine.

Fact is, there are no resources on Mars that we don't have in quantity here on Earth. And considering the extra cost of shipping extracted materials back to Earth, there's no resource-gathering economic reason to go to Mars.

The economic benefits of a Mars program would be in the development and construction of the rockets and landers here on Earth, and fallout from the necessary side projects. There would be all sorts of technological advances in medicine, agriculture, water purification, and materials science at minimum just in getting to the point a manned mission was feasible.

[Adridos]

Oil simply isn't valuable enough, and the other two are mostly valuable due to scarcity - the actual market for either is really quite small.

You've got a point, but I think my 'message' was clear. If there was a way to earn tons of money by getting to the Mars, we'd be there in no time.

[Grognard]

What about Helium-3