Rules questions

[jackpot4]

My brother and I have recently begun playing again and we are coming across more and more questions.  I will ask them here as we go and we appreciate any solid answers.

Decoy and improved targeting.
If the target has decoy and the attacker has improved targeting and the attacker hits using the targeting on the first roll, when re-rolling can improved targeting be used again?

Critical miss and hit.
When re-rolling for decoy, does the attacker receive damage on the re roll if a critical miss comes up? (same with critical hit)

Ranged combat formations.
When three attackers are in formation and one's line of sight is blocked by hindering or blocking, does their target receive any defense modifiers?

Firing in to base contact.
Four targets are in base contact with a Battlemech, if the Battlemech with three energy targets and a 0/10 range fires at three of them do they receive any defense bonuses for firing while units are in base contact?

When targeting two of those units and a unit not in base contact, does the unit not in base contact receive a bonus?

Capturing.
Can multiple infantry participate in a capture attempt?

Homing Beacon.
Is even blocking terrain considered clear for a ballistic attack when the target has been hit by a homing beacon?

That's all I have for now, thanks!

[cavingjan]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. All participants must have LOS to the target to be in a ranged formation.
4. If the target is in base contact, even if other units are in base contact, they do not receive a defensive bonus for base contact. However if a target it not in base contact while others are, that target receives the bonus.
5. You may use a close combat formation for a capture attempt.
6. yes

[Rimoran]

Ranged combat formations.
When three attackers are in formation and one's line of sight is blocked by hindering or blocking, does their target receive any defense modifiers?

There's a little more nuance to this question that I'm not sure if cavingjan answered for you.  (Which he did answer correctly, BTW!  Just clarifying a small nuance.)
Let's name your range combat formation participants as 1, 2, and 3.  1 is your primary attacker and 2 and 3 are assisting.

BLOCKING TERRAIN INVOLVED.
- See cavingjan's answer, it pretty much handles that.

HINDERING TERRAIN INVOLVED.
- If the PRIMARY ATTACKER'S (number 1) line of sight goes through hindering, then adjust target's defense value accordingly.
- If the ASSISTING UNITS (numbers 2 & 3) line of sight goes through hindering, then NO ADJUSTMENT to the target's defense value.

:)

[jackpot4]

very cool, thank you for the clarification.

[jackpot4]

More rules questions:

Assault Order and Close Combat

If my mech makes an assault order, by moving into base contact, can it use any other friendly units in base contact as a formation close combat attack? 

Transport and passengers

When a transport collects passengers who have two order tokens on the next turn can the transport drop them off and then use them for a ranged combat attack or move order?  Or do those units have to be cooled for one turn like regularly?

Thanks!

[cavingjan]

pg 27: may not be a member of a formation

transport: order tokens are cleared when they embark.

[jackpot4]

I just overlooked that, thanks for the clarification as well!

[jackpot4]

This is kind of complicated question because it concerns a unit from dark age using the post AOD rules.  Jon Roberson ( http://www.warrenborn.com/Unit.php?ID=FP137 )

Now obviously the unit is no different except the set it was released was pre AOD.  Based on the language on the SEC and the Assault Order in the Rulebook it appears this unit could make an assault repair.

The wording states that repair is a close combat order and the rulebook says that mechs can move their full speed then receive a close combat order. 

Any input would be welcome, thanks!

[GhostCat]

If you look again at the rule book, you will see that it specifies "a Close Combat Attack".  When VTOLs entered the Game, the Rules had to start making a distinction between an "action permitted by an Order" and an "Order to perform an action".

REPAIR (optional) This unit may be given close combat orders, regardless of its type. Make a close combat attack targeting a friendly figure; neither this unit nor the target may be in base contact with an opposing figure.

Close Combat:  To make a close combat attack, a unit must be given a close combat order or an assault order. Close combat represents point-blank fighting between units.

assault Combat:  A ’Mech that is not in base contact with an opposing unit may be given an assault order, which allows it to both move and make either a ranged or close combat attack. All terrain modifiers apply to the move. A ’Mech may move up to half its speed value and then make a ranged combat attack, or it may move up to its entire speed value and make a close combat attack.

A ’Mech given an assault order     
• may not run,     
• may not be a member of a formation, and     
• gains 1 heat at the end of the order in addition to any other heat generated by the order.

The wording on the SEC is important, because that is what limits a unit's ability and keeps the game in balance.  There are also other abilities, such as 'Alpha Strike', that have similar restrictions that require a specific Order to perform the Action.

GC

[cavingjan]

That is also not limited to SalvageMechs since we also had repair gear cards for lights and mediums.

[jackpot4]

If you look again at the rule book, you will see that it specifies "a Close Combat Attack".  When VTOLs entered the Game, the Rules had to start making a distinction between an "action permitted by an Order" and an "Order to perform an action".

The wording on the SEC is important, because that is what limits a unit's ability and keeps the game in balance.  There are also other abilities, such as 'Alpha Strike', that have similar restrictions that require a specific Order to perform the Action.

GC

Ok so since both state that it would be a close combat attack the mech can make an assault repair?  That's what it looks like to me.  The Sec says you make a close combat attack against a friendly and the assault order says to make a close combat attack after the full movement.  That's definitely how it appears to me.

[Elusive]

I believe the way it breaks down is that repair requires a "Close combat order" as opposed to an "Assault order" to close combat attack.  Therefore, you cannot assault and repair.

[GhostCat]

Elusive is correct.  As Cavingjan says, this is not limited to just Salvagemechs and Repair.  There are a lot of carefully worded Gear cards, and Special Abilities. 

Point Defense seemed pretty useless on a low ranking infantry unit until you see it teamed up with a repair truck that was having trouble fixing a slightly damaged battlemech. 

GC

[jackpot4]

My hangup with this is in the SEC it states:

"This unit may be given close combat orders, regardless of its type." (Allowing vehicles to do so I'm thinking)

"Make a close combat attack targeting a friendly figure..." The repair order is a close combat attack according to this line.

In the rulebook it states:

"A ’Mech that is not in base contact with an opposing unit may be given an assault order, which allows it to both move and make either a ranged or close combat attack."

To me I do not see a specification that states one is a close combat order and the other is not; nor do I see a specification that an assault order has to be against an enemy target.  The only thing the assault order specifies is a "target" not friendly or opposing.

If it's not obvious, yes I want to do assault repairs.  :P

[GhostCat]

If it's not obvious, yes I want to do assault repairs.

I see your point, and many people wanted to do just that as soon as they learned the Assault Order Rule. 

"This unit may be given close combat orders, regardless of its type." (Allowing vehicles to do so I'm thinking)

Let me rephrase that ... "This unit requires a Close Combat Order before it can commit to making a Close Combat Attack." 

"Regardless of its type" does include the attack type as well as the figure type.  MASH units only repair Foot Mode Infantry, so it has its own Attack symbol.

The SEC does not say "This unit may be given Assault Orders to make close combat attacks." 

Of course, you can still discuss this with your other players, and make a "House Rule" to try it out and see if it really makes any difference.  (I personally never thought it mattered, but I already had that experience of watching things self destruct for silly reasons.)

The general rule to follow with the way the game rules are written is that the rules give permission to perform actions in a certain manner.  If the rules do not say something can be done, then the correct answer is, that it can be done, it's just not permitted.  That might sound simple but the Wizkids forums were in constant motion because opinions vary with each new rule, player, and featured item.

GC

[jackpot4]

Ok, I think I get what you're saying.  If the text does not say it can be done, it can't unless we house rule it....  Well the only thing this would do is allow a unit to potentially be repaired much quicker and more efficiently than lugging an infantry or vehicle around.  Then again, this mech in particular has evade so it would be better to use it a little further back far out of enemy range, then run it up and repair rather than keep it too close and risk getting hit by an assault order itself.

Whether the rule gets ok'd or not the piece is still quite advantageous.  Thanks for your input!

[jackpot4]

New question:
Can mechs in salvage run? 

On Skullcap Garret ( http://www.warrenborn.com/Unit.php?ID=D146 ) he has evade while in salvage.  Upon re reading the rulebook it says that a unit given a move order can be given the run option.  The SEC says this unit may be given a move order.  Because of this gear on this unit I am confused because it has always been our understanding that mechs in salvage can only make a base speed movement.  Thanks for any clarification.

[GhostCat]

Run option. A unit with the  (mech)  speed mode can use the run option when given a move order; this allows the unit to move a number of inches equal to double its speed value. You must declare that the ’Mech will run before attempting to move it. Running causes the unit to gain 1 heat in addition to any other heat gained by the order. If a ’Mech given a move order to run fails a break away roll, it does not gain 1 heat for the run.

Being Salvaged does not mean it can't run, and running is an option in the Move Order.  As a bonus, you get Evade to use while running, which will reduce the Heat generated by the Run. 

CHARGE ’Mechs with attack values greater than 0 can make a special attack called charge. Draw a line of fire from the attacker to the target; this line of fire does not have to pass through the attacker’s front arc, and it ignores the hindering terrain modifier. If the line of fire crosses any non-water terrain feature or other non-infantry unit’s base, the target gets +2 to its defense value for the attack. Give the attacker a move order to run; it must end the move in base contact with the target.

Just in case you were wondering about it, a Salvaged Mech can still make a Charge attack as long as it can still comply with the above requirements.  And yes, the most likely result is self destruction or over heating to shut down if charging does not completely destroy the attacking unit.  But it is a well known way of exiting the battlefield in a blaze of glory.

GC

[jackpot4]

Thanks for the info.  That's not great info for me though, my opposition loves charging....  #P

[jackpot4]

BLOOD IN THE WATER If this unit is not in base contact with an opposing figure, after resolving a ranged combat attack against a single opposing target vehicle or 'Mech, this unit may move up to its entire speed value and make a close combat attack against that target.

http://www.warrenborn.com/Unit.php?ID=DOM-L-030

This is Julian Davion's pilot ability.  I was curious, if making that second attack, is there any heat gain?  It does not state there is any heat gain.  However if there was how would it play out?  Two heat for a push and assault?  Just one for a close combat order?

Thanks!

[DarkSpade]

If I remember correctly, the only order you're actually giving the unit is to make that first ranged combat attack.  So the only heat you'd get is if you used any special equipment that generates heat during the attacks, or if you had pushed.

[GhostCat]

I think you might be safe to apply just the Heat generated by the initial Order.  It's a free action and the target still has to be close enough for the mech to move to base contact. 

It's not like Kisho's Anticipate, which gives Kisho an extra Order with all the Heat and Pushing that applies to it.

ANTICIPATE (Optional) Before giving this unit an order, you may give it a move order, which does not count against your order total for the turn. This unit may not use the run option during this move, and it may not be in base contact with any opposing figure at the end of the move. This unit gains 1 heat after resolving the move. ...

Kisho can generate up to four Heat with Anticipate, Push, Assault, and Pulse, so having several coolant trucks is almost a necessity for him.  That's not counting any other Heat he might have on the dial.

Julian can add up a Push, Assault, and Pulse (or PPC Cap) and still get that free action without adding more heat.  Though I will have say the odds of not shutting down after resolving the Order is not good, and the Heat is applied before getting that free action.  So there are plenty of things that can make the Special Ability useless.

1.  The Target is eliminated by the Ranged Attack and the Ability is not needed.
2.  Julien's mech shuts down and can not use the Special Ability while shut down.
3.  The Target is too far away or has a ring of infantry that can prevent base contact with Julian's mech.

It is a high risk Ability, so the pay off should be just as high.   With a cascading heat dial, the Enforcer can't be too aggressive when it's not on the green click.

GC

[jackpot4]

Bypass

What victory condition does a bypassed mech fall under? 

Would it fall under surviving units, units eliminated, or double points for having been a captive?  Thanks.

[GhostCat]

It falls under surviving units for the player that controls it last.

BYPASS (optional) If this unit began the turn with no order tokens and in base contact with a single target captive vehicle or ’Mech, give it a move order but do not move it. Eliminate this unit to gain control of the target; it is friendly to you and ceases being a captive. If a player other than you was the last player to control the target before it became a captive, that player gains victory points for this eliminated unit.

This also applies if you were not the one that captured the targeted unit. 

GC