Why haven't Clan LRM systems dominated?

[Red Pins]

A quick glance through sourcebooks and fluff has just basically told me they're more smaller and compact, but not a definitive answer.  Help, please?

[nckestrel]

They do dominate.  Clan LRMs are amazing.

[worktroll]

The only real downside is that they do variable damage, in 5 point chunks. The CERPPC still does 15 points, and clan pulse lasers get the -2, which keeps them competitive.

Some people like the 3 point hits from SR ATMs, but tube for tube I'll still back the versatility of the CLRM. They go indirect, too!

[dgorsman]

iATMs, with Streak on direct fire and indirect capable.  But yeah, for straight out numbers LRMs.

[SCC]

Heat might be a bit of a concern for 'Mechs. Also this isn't 1st ed Starfire where everyone is fielding custom forces so there's nothing to stop min-maxing (For reference that's one of the downsides of having a rule book so small in can apparently fit in your pants back pocket.)

[Hptm. Streiger]

What they don't tell you is that the reload mechanism of Clan LRMs is prone to catastrophic failure by using lightweight mechanical parts they simple break after to much stress... that's the reason most clan magazines only have a single ton of ammunition.

Another issue is that the fuze and guidance section of those clan missiles is plain garbage - the sophisticated Holy LRM, for example, has two separate guidance systems, and a multi-purpose warhead that is great in blasting through armor and slicing through meat. The Clan LRM warhead is an unstable high explosive in a light metal case - guidance is a radio-guided-package, very simple to disrupt.

For the grizzle business of warfare you should not use Clan Missiles or any Clan System at all - that stuff only works for the Clown-Circus-Warfare that those guys are playing.

[Jellico]

Heat gets you in the end. Your first few LRM20s are free, then you rapidly run out of crits for HS and ammo.

[Sartris]

For funzies in a campaign I outfitted the opfor with LRM carriers that carried six cLRM20s

That was fun

[I am Belch II]

I think the Clan LRM is the best weapon the Clans have. Great range, no minimum range, heat not a huge issue, and light weight for the launcher. A Bane 3 is one of the most deadly mechs out there.

[Colt Ward]

For funzies in a campaign I outfitted the opfor with LRM carriers that carried six cLRM20s

That was fun

Real question was how much ammo you gave them?  And did your opponent declare they would fight in the shade?

For the OP . . . its one of those acknowledged things (aka Apollo's law type) that most folks look past, like its more efficient to mount 3 LRM5s rather than a LRM15.

[Sartris]

standard ammo load of four tons. they were there for a good time, not a long time. I also gave them Clan FF

[Colt Ward]

Yeah, 4 rounds . . . I was just wondering if you did T-Augs or smoke for giggles.

[Weirdo]

they were there for a good time, not a long time

I need to remember that sentence, it'd make an excellent unit motto. :thumbsup:

[Sartris]

Yeah, 4 rounds . . . I was just wondering if you did T-Augs or smoke for giggles.

i wasn't big on advanced ammo but a company of those laying mines for a few turns to prep a battlefield would be... sufficient

[Red Pins]

I just look at it as, after 50 years, the Clans still have a massive advantage in tonnage compared to IS models.  Why haven't they decided to sacrifice durability etc.in favor of the lighter unit?

Fluff only goes so far, in the face of that kind of advantage.

[Force of Nature]

I think the Clan LRM is the best weapon the Clans have. Great range, no minimum range, heat not a huge issue, and light weight for the launcher. A Bane 3 is one of the most deadly mechs out there.

I completely agree with you about the Kraken (Bane) 3 with its 8 LRM 15's. Having no minimum basically makes them long range SRM 15 packs...

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

I think the Clan LRM is the best weapon the Clans have. Great range, no minimum range, heat not a huge issue, and light weight for the launcher. A Bane 3 is one of the most deadly mechs out there.

  Yeah, I used a Bane 3 for the first time in a tournament -It was a monster. The Bane and Black Python easily took down 4-5 times their weight in Omnis.

[SteelRaven]

Clanners tend to favor trail combat so indirect fire is a afterthought for many. That said, you see LRMs on allot of Clan loadouts, from light mechs to assaults.

[Sartris]

Hence pretty much every Omni having a double erppc loadout.

My first real experience using cLRMs was a Nova Cat B. I was horrified as we were on a small map and it was my only unit until someone pointed out the removal of minimum range.

[Daryk]

I suspect you were then horrified in the other direction...  ^-^

[Sartris]

Using the business end of horror is much more enjoyable it turns out

[Daryk]

Heh... good point!  :thumbsup:

[Retry]

What they don't tell you is that the reload mechanism of Clan LRMs is prone to catastrophic failure by using lightweight mechanical parts they simple break after to much stress... that's the reason most clan magazines only have a single ton of ammunition.

Another issue is that the fuze and guidance section of those clan missiles is plain garbage - the sophisticated Holy LRM, for example, has two separate guidance systems, and a multi-purpose warhead that is great in blasting through armor and slicing through meat. The Clan LRM warhead is an unstable high explosive in a light metal case - guidance is a radio-guided-package, very simple to disrupt.

For the grizzle business of warfare you should not use Clan Missiles or any Clan System at all - that stuff only works for the Clown-Circus-Warfare that those guys are playing.

Are the stress/warhead/guidance things actually written down somewhere, at least in fluff?  They sure don't have any actual impact on the tabletop to that effect, either directly on the board or indirectly on the strategic scale...

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I've never seen it even hinted anywhere.  I suspect it was something Hptm. Streiger came up with themselves.

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

Are the stress/warhead/guidance things actually written down somewhere, at least in fluff?  They sure don't have any actual impact on the tabletop to that effect, either directly on the board or indirectly on the strategic scale...

  Some GMs use fluff in campaigns and tabletop, fluff rules are like quirks and may be applied, depending on the GM.

[Hptm. Streiger]

I've never seen it even hinted anywhere.  I suspect it was something Hptm. Streiger came up with themselves.

Yes I'm guilty to just blowing hot air.

Although there are a couple of options to make Clan Tech not the Mary Sue its supposed to be (for example crit on 7+ instead of 8+)
LRM and SRMs work like DumbFire unless you mount Artemis but then you don't get the +2, Streaks do not get auto hit but need to roll for cluster but +2.

Stuff like that

[Greatclub]

The only real downside is that they do variable damage, in 5 point chunks. The CERPPC still does 15 points, and clan pulse lasers get the -2, which keeps them competitive.

Some people like the 3 point hits from SR ATMs, but tube for tube I'll still back the versatility of the CLRM. They go indirect, too!

Per page 96, BMM, ATM deal damage in 5 point chunks too. EDIT - nemmind, I just re-parsed what you wrote.

5 point clusters are the least valuable form of cluster in the game. 1 or two point clusters can critseek, single big hits can punch a hole, but an an equivalent value of 5 pointers, in my experience, usually have to strip the mech of most of its armor before anything worth hitting gets knocked out. A hit from an AC/20 is usually far more valuable than from twenty LRM

Big hits followed by many small clusters are the best way to wreck a mech efficiently.

[Retry]

Yes I'm guilty to just blowing hot air.

Although there are a couple of options to make Clan Tech not the Mary Sue its supposed to be (for example crit on 7+ instead of 8+)
LRM and SRMs work like DumbFire unless you mount Artemis but then you don't get the +2, Streaks do not get auto hit but need to roll for cluster but +2.

Stuff like that

This is kinda getting too close to house-rules at this point.

The cLRMs are really great, and they're quite possibly the most improved weapon of all (going from a dedicated fire-support weapon to a useful general-purpose missile you can slap on just about everything), but they're not a mary-sue, and I've actually got more mileage out of the various Clan energy weapons (ERML, ERLL, ERPPC, and all the pulses).

Big hits followed by many small clusters are the best way to wreck a mech efficiently.

I thought the best way to wreck a mech was a Peacemaker.

[BATTLEMASTER]

Clan LRMs and SRMs are a straight upgrade to the classic missile technologies left to stagnate in the Inner Sphere.  They absolutely dominate.

[Apocal]

Per page 96, BMM, ATM deal damage in 5 point chunks too. EDIT - nemmind, I just re-parsed what you wrote.

5 point clusters are the least valuable form of cluster in the game. 1 or two point clusters can critseek, single big hits can punch a hole, but an an equivalent value of 5 pointers, in my experience, usually have to strip the mech of most of its armor before anything worth hitting gets knocked out. A hit from an AC/20 is usually far more valuable than from twenty LRM

Big hits followed by many small clusters are the best way to wreck a mech efficiently.

I agree but ATMs are amazing though. Because HE ATM12 comes out to eight clusters on a 11 or 12 when rolling for hits and at least five clusters on anything better than a 5. Overall, the cLRM is probably superior, but ATMs certainly earn their keep in the right hands and under the right circumstances.