Author Topic: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?  (Read 9264 times)

Kit deSummersville

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #30 on: 20 December 2017, 11:11:14 »
More than one Merc unit was established when their house army abandoned them and left them to die and they went "screw this, we're going Merc".
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Kitsune413

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #31 on: 20 December 2017, 12:35:05 »
It also depends if you are playing high fantasy battletech or not. (Hi-sci-fi?)

You can put a battlemech back together unless its cored. Ammo explosions (With case) and falls can burn through pilots quick. Not to mention headshots. I've also thought Battletech rules are surprisingly silent when it comes to what happens to the pilot when a mech is cored. They would at the very least take falling damage right?

So you can go through pilots pretty fast...

Another big problem is money. So you're a starting out merc outfit. You do a mission. You lose. You had four mechs. You left two on the battlefield the enemy salvaged. Your remaining two mechs have holes in them. You don't have the money to fix it. Jared's dead. Lisa's been captured by house forces. Jeffrey, Jared's brother has post traumatic stress disorder.

Merc Unit finished.

I would honestly call that realistic battletech.

grim dark battletech... Jeffrey becomes homeless because he can't deal with it anymore. Sold what was left of his mech for passage back to his homeworld. The last mechwarrior, Jennifer, borrowed from Jeffrey for passage to the Periphery. Her mech was still busted so she threw in with a local pirate group. She did a good job terrorizing some outback worlds for food and a little money before a well placed Schrek PPC carrier ended her mech. She's dispossed now but still rolls with a pirate crew.

The good news is that the original mercenary raid wasn't against the Draconis Combine so Lisa wasn't executed.


Technically... All four mechs of the original Merc Unit are maybe still out there.
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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #32 on: 20 December 2017, 13:28:04 »
So you can go through pilots pretty fast...

In game, it's easier to kill the mech than the pilot. Think I had to role edge twice over a year of a RP campaign. While writers love to depict Mechs as hot box death trap, the game mechanics show mechs do a great job keeping mechwarriors alive. 
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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #33 on: 20 December 2017, 14:16:43 »
In game, it's easier to kill the mech than the pilot. Think I had to role edge twice over a year of a RP campaign. While writers love to depict Mechs as hot box death trap, the game mechanics show mechs do a great job keeping mechwarriors alive.

If you use the ATOW rules I think maybe you're slightly more survivable. I'm not sure.

I think it just depends on the mech class. If you're in a light mech then the light mech will give out before the pilot. If you're in an assault mech call the coroner.
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SCC

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #34 on: 20 December 2017, 15:15:43 »
Why should the Napoleonic Wars-era Royal Navy's prize ruling, in particular, be applicable to Battletech? There is no evidence supporting it and plenty against.

Mechs are relatively rare, in the sense that each Successor State doesn't have more than around 12,000 in-service Mechs across about 400 worlds and  but there are confirmed hidden Mech stockpiles in BT - Comstar, the Fed Suns, Word of Blake and the Cap Con in the Dark Age era are four undisputable examples. Maybe they are "doomsday scenario" stockpiles - and indeed we could have seen each Successor State dip heavily into them during the Jihad, which explains why post-Jihad they took a long time to rearm and replenish.

So 1) its not unfeasible to imagine each Successor State having around 500-600 somewhat obsolete Mechs (only about 5% of total) tucked away somewhere for a rainy flooding day, and 2) its probable that the Draconis Combine dipped into its stockpile to form the Ghost Regiments.

By the way, the DCMS Night Stalkers, AFFS Chisholm's Raiders and FWL Romanov's Crusaders are better examples of units formed with privately-owned Mechs.
Ah, OK then, that makes sense. But I think the reason that my mind, and likely other people's minds go to that set of rules is that it seems to be the ONLY time in history that there where actual rules dealing with captured equipment, at least that give anything to those that capture it (I think you'll modern US law will say that the state gets it and the soldiers get nothing)

Having multiple ships in sight could help intimidate an opposing ship into surrendering, or influence its maneuvering in a way which makes it easier to capture. If some MechWarrior tries to claim that they kept the enemy in the fight so long that enemy had to find somewhere safe to pee - which is to say, they contributed neither materially nor psychologically to the actual capture of the 'Mech - they should be committed right along with the grandma.

Edit: possibly you are misunderstanding the scenario. The MechWarrior isn't cracking his cockpit open in the middle of combat, he's gone off somewhere quiet away from the battle zone. "Safely away from the battle zone" *isn't* a crazy place to find grandmas. BattleMechs are fast and mobile; villages containing grandmas are not.
My argument here was that the reason he couldn't get back to base for whatever was because he'd been in combat too long.

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #35 on: 20 December 2017, 20:06:59 »
Perhaps I failed to explain the "bathroom break" scenario very well.  The idea is that a mechwarrior had been sent out on some kind of patrol mission.  Think Luke Skywalker at the beginning of Empire Strikes Back.  He's out scouting for the enemy, but all reports are that opposition forces are at least 100 miles away.  He's been out there for a few hours, he sees nothing.  So he stops for a pee break, gets out of the cockpit, smokes a cigarette, etc.  He thinks nobody is around for miles.

And then he gets shot in the face by some lone foot soldier with a rifle.  Just some guy who happened to be nearby, and probably hid behind a tree or something when he saw a Phoenix Hawk (or whatever) come stomping through.

Now it very well may take that infantryman half an hour to get over to the mech, strip the pilot of any useful gear, climb up to the cockpit, and figure out how to get it started.  During this time, he's very vulnerable and if somebody else comes along, he could lose his prize.  But let's say nobody does.  What do you do with it now?

Well a really patriotic guy returns to his unit and tells his commander that he's brought the Chancellor a gift.  A more selfish guy thinks about how he's going to keep this bad boy.

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #36 on: 20 December 2017, 20:31:54 »
Perhaps I failed to explain the "bathroom break" scenario very well.  The idea is that a mechwarrior had been sent out on some kind of patrol mission.  Think Luke Skywalker at the beginning of Empire Strikes Back.  He's out scouting for the enemy, but all reports are that opposition forces are at least 100 miles away.  He's been out there for a few hours, he sees nothing.  So he stops for a pee break, gets out of the cockpit, smokes a cigarette, etc.  He thinks nobody is around for miles.

And then he gets shot in the face by some lone foot soldier with a rifle.  Just some guy who happened to be nearby, and probably hid behind a tree or something when he saw a Phoenix Hawk (or whatever) come stomping through.

Now it very well may take that infantryman half an hour to get over to the mech, strip the pilot of any useful gear, climb up to the cockpit, and figure out how to get it started.  During this time, he's very vulnerable and if somebody else comes along, he could lose his prize.  But let's say nobody does.  What do you do with it now?

Well a really patriotic guy returns to his unit and tells his commander that he's brought the Chancellor a gift.  A more selfish guy thinks about how he's going to keep this bad boy.

It goes really badly for you in that situation I think.

I don't know that there is anything stopping the guy from jacking the mech. It might still be running while the guy goes to the bathroom. Other than that I can't imagine they are easy to operate. It's like a helicopter... the neurohelmet is tuned to the brainwaves of the guy you just geeked and if it falls over and you suck then you get mashed to bits in the cockpit.

But it wouldn't be easy to keep for himself. How would he get off world with it? If his unit moves out he can't just throw another mech on the dropship.

Assuming he is an enemy combatant. If he's just a guy in the woods with a rifle then he needs to have underworld contacts or access to a dropship to get it off world.
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Daryk

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #37 on: 20 December 2017, 20:40:58 »
Ah, OK then, that makes sense. But I think the reason that my mind, and likely other people's minds go to that set of rules is that it seems to be the ONLY time in history that there where actual rules dealing with captured equipment, at least that give anything to those that capture it (I think you'll modern US law will say that the state gets it and the soldiers get nothing)
*snip*
At least since 1965... that was the date on the instruction I saw posted a few years back regarding "war trophies".  I don't think it's on line anymore...

massey

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #38 on: 20 December 2017, 21:05:18 »
It goes really badly for you in that situation I think.

I don't know that there is anything stopping the guy from jacking the mech. It might still be running while the guy goes to the bathroom. Other than that I can't imagine they are easy to operate. It's like a helicopter... the neurohelmet is tuned to the brainwaves of the guy you just geeked and if it falls over and you suck then you get mashed to bits in the cockpit.

But it wouldn't be easy to keep for himself. How would he get off world with it? If his unit moves out he can't just throw another mech on the dropship.

Assuming he is an enemy combatant. If he's just a guy in the woods with a rifle then he needs to have underworld contacts or access to a dropship to get it off world.

I think you can probably walk around in it without having it refigured for a new pilot.  I wouldn't want to do anything that actually required a piloting skill roll.  No running or jumping.

As far as getting offworld, well that's why you join a merc unit, right?  Ideally there's one nearing the end of its contract on your planet.  If not, I'd say you hide your new mech somewhere until there is a merc unit leaving.  Sometimes that may mean you wait a few years.  Sometimes it means your kid inherits the mech and he runs off and joins a merc company.

SCC

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #39 on: 20 December 2017, 21:29:04 »
At least since 1965... that was the date on the instruction I saw posted a few years back regarding "war trophies".  I don't think it's on line anymore...
Evan earlier, there was a case in WW2 dealing with a German ship, US crew eventually got 'prize money' but only because her original German crew had scuttled her and the courts ruled that this meant that sea salvage laws applied.

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #40 on: 20 December 2017, 21:34:01 »
Sorry, I meant that the 1965 instruction basically banned war trophies...

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #41 on: 20 December 2017, 22:53:21 »
If you use the ATOW rules I think maybe you're slightly more survivable. I'm not sure.

I think it just depends on the mech class. If you're in a light mech then the light mech will give out before the pilot. If you're in an assault mech call the coroner.

Nope. I've played BT on a weekly or bi-weekly bases for the last 10 years, and pilot deaths are extremely rare. Vehicle crew deaths are far more common.
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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #42 on: 20 December 2017, 22:58:00 »
But it wouldn't be easy to keep for himself. How would he get off world with it? If his unit moves out he can't just throw another mech on the dropship.

Assuming he is an enemy combatant. If he's just a guy in the woods with a rifle then he needs to have underworld contacts or access to a dropship to get it off world.

Why does he have to take it off-world? It's not too hard to go native, and almost every world seems to have enough population that there may be local concerns with their own Mech Security outfit, or local merc bands looking to hire.  Why does everything about the merc trade have to be interstellar in nature?
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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #43 on: 21 December 2017, 00:21:21 »
Why does he have to take it off-world? It's not too hard to go native, and almost every world seems to have enough population that there may be local concerns with their own Mech Security outfit, or local merc bands looking to hire.  Why does everything about the merc trade have to be interstellar in nature?

Because in that scenario, the House that controls said planet will probably look poorly on his desertion to attempt to go independent on one of their own planets.
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Kidd

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #44 on: 21 December 2017, 06:08:32 »
I agree that idea is reasonable for the Star League, and the Pax Republica, but I have to agree with SCC that it's not congruent with the scavenger / meat-grinder periods in between.
Especially during the meat-grinding periods as Mechs grew more valuable it would have become all the more pressing for Successor Lords to hoard a few Mechs rather than deploy them all.

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Y'know, given that the Night Stalkers were funded by rich members of the business world, and that Chisholm's Raiders are described as "rickety," and that both are light units which were formed from used 'Mechs, I think they're a fair sign of just how scarce 'Mechs are in the secondary market.
The Stalkers were formed by vets who owned family Mechs, the Raiders were a verrry well-funded militia. Yup, but that they were formed at all indicates there IS a secondary market, a very small one.
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It shows up in TR:3025. I'd expect it to show up in the Notable Warrior entries of later TROs too (though I don't know if it actually does). I've recently reread parts of the Warrior Trilogy, and I think I remember it also being mentioned offhand in dialogue there.

In any case, individual prize rights apply to how loot gets distributed within the unit. It's a separate issue from, and would occur after, accounting for whatever loot the unit as a whole is contractually obligated to pass on to other units.
Good distinction. But then that would be up to the unit commander, and I bet policies would vary significantly. Maybe Mechwarriors earn cash bounties on each confirmed kill they make, but the salvage is usually taken by the unit. Either way what we definitely don't see are where stories a Mechwarrior with 10 kills acquires 10 salvaged Mechs.

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #45 on: 21 December 2017, 09:37:08 »
Either way what we definitely don't see are where stories a Mechwarrior with 10 kills acquires 10 salvaged Mechs.
We see an occasional case where a MechWarrior gains a second 'Mech as salvage, but that's usually the extent of it.  An "ace" doesn't end up with a reinforced lance of salvaged 'Mechs.  If there's some bounty or reward for the kill, such as 1000 C-Bills, 10% of the remaining value, or whatever the faction deems a fair incentive to risk your life for, then the first kill MIGHT go to the victor (depending on faction rules) with the stipulation that he or she needs to pay back the rest of the value to the state over some period of time, or do service to the state (obviously easier to pay off as an "owner-operator" of a 'Mech than out of a foot soldier's paycheck) until the balance is considered "paid".

The rules almost certainly vary widely from House to House.

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #46 on: 21 December 2017, 16:33:05 »
My argument here was that the reason he couldn't get back to base for whatever was because he'd been in combat too long.

I know. I'm saying that's too distant from the acquisition of the prize to make a claim on the prize. Now, if the regiment which had kept him in combat was doing a lot of work that resulted in the infantryman's regiment getting a lot of easy prizes, maybe the infantryman's regiment would share some of those prizes with the other regiment. But that's a separate issue, and doesn't negate whatever prize rights the infantryman has.

Especially during the meat-grinding periods as Mechs grew more valuable it would have become all the more pressing for Successor Lords to hoard a few Mechs rather than deploy them all.

That sounds more like a staffed reserve unit, or a boneyard, than a unit decommissioned for hoarding.

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The Stalkers were formed by vets who owned family Mechs, the Raiders were a verrry well-funded militia. Yup, but that they were formed at all indicates there IS a secondary market, a very small one.

The Stalker officers were retired vets, which means their family 'Mech was likely passed on to the next generation, and the rest of the unit was recruited from low-scoring academy grads who aren't guaranteed to have a family 'Mech. That said, it does seem likely that both groups would have had at least some family 'Mechs.

I can't find any references to Chisholm's Raiders being or not being well-funded.

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Good distinction. But then that would be up to the unit commander, and I bet policies would vary significantly. Maybe Mechwarriors earn cash bounties on each confirmed kill they make, but the salvage is usually taken by the unit. Either way what we definitely don't see are where stories a Mechwarrior with 10 kills acquires 10 salvaged Mechs.

Maybe, but we don't see stories which rule out "I killed it solo, I keep it solo" either. The internal economics of a merc unit just doesn't get the spotlight very often; even more rarely for House units. Having one person in a unit own several 'Mechs is just another way of saying that some MechWarriors pilot 'Mechs that belong to someone else, and that not every 'Mech employed by a regiment is automatically owned by the regimental command - both of which we already know to be true.
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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #47 on: 21 December 2017, 19:14:07 »
That sounds more like a staffed reserve unit, or a boneyard, than a unit decommissioned for hoarding.
...I was talking about a boneyard.
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The Stalker officers were retired vets, which means their family 'Mech was likely passed on to the next generation, and the rest of the unit was recruited from low-scoring academy grads who aren't guaranteed to have a family 'Mech. That said, it does seem likely that both groups would have had at least some family 'Mechs.
No disagreement there. But to me the existence of family Mechs implies the existence of a secondary market for obtaining and servicing said Mechs, rather than state monopolies on Mech ownership.
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I can't find any references to Chisholm's Raiders being or not being well-funded.
Just my conjecture that a militia that can afford a regiment of Mechs must be more well-funded than the average planetary militia.
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Maybe, but we don't see stories which rule out "I killed it solo, I keep it solo" either. The internal economics of a merc unit just doesn't get the spotlight very often; even more rarely for House units. Having one person in a unit own several 'Mechs is just another way of saying that some MechWarriors pilot 'Mechs that belong to someone else, and that not every 'Mech employed by a regiment is automatically owned by the regimental command - both of which we already know to be true.
Most any behaviour can probably be found amongst merc and pirate units. I'm just talking about Successor State militaries.

We know these things to be true, and we know some examples where but it might be a bit of a leap to infer a widespread "you keep what you kill" policy - informally? possible. Cash bounty? also very probable considering the desirability of being a Mechwarrior. Keeping more than 1 Mech - especially given the scarcity of Mechs previously discussed - a little unlikely.

Edit: Since OP brought up the Royal Navy's prize rules - it might be pointed out that the procedure was to first offer the ships to the Royal Navy, who might decide to "buy into service" the ships; otherwise they (and their cargoes) would be auctioned - depending on the condition of the prizes they might only get scrap value. The crews did not get the physical goods, they received cash. Another reason why I think a cash bounty is more likely than Mech ownership.
« Last Edit: 21 December 2017, 19:23:41 by Kidd »

Daryk

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #48 on: 21 December 2017, 20:23:55 »
*snip*
Just my conjecture that a militia that can afford a regiment of Mechs must be more well-funded than the average planetary militia.
*snip*
Funny thing I've noticed working with Monbvol on his house rules and Campaign Ops.  Mech units are actually relatively cheaper to operate than vehicle or infantry based forces (for vehicles above 15 tons, at least).  Salaries end up being the biggest cost (just like the real world... who knew?).  Planetary militias need the numbers, though, as they end up with all kinds of other duties (e.g., disaster relief).

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #49 on: 22 December 2017, 02:08:24 »
Funny thing I've noticed working with Monbvol on his house rules and Campaign Ops.  Mech units are actually relatively cheaper to operate than vehicle or infantry based forces (for vehicles above 15 tons, at least).  Salaries end up being the biggest cost (just like the real world... who knew?).  Planetary militias need the numbers, though, as they end up with all kinds of other duties (e.g., disaster relief).
Support/technical costs aren't well-fleshed-out in the game. And there's the rarity factor, aside from cost. Sometimes Mechs just aren't for sale. Those who have them must be very well-connected, and usually if they are legitimate owners, that means well-heeled.

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #50 on: 22 December 2017, 07:24:35 »
Didn't Nelson Geist get his Battlemaster from Evil Santa while driving a House Owned P-Hawk?
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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #51 on: 22 December 2017, 09:08:44 »
Campaign Ops (page 24) does a pretty good job of fleshing out the support and technical costs.  Basically, for a single 'Mech, you need the MechWarrior plus a full tech team (1 Tech, 6 AsTechs), then 0.1% of the mass of the 'Mech at 10,000 C-Bills per ton for monthly spare parts.  Finally, every unit consumes one-quarter of its ammunition capacity per month for proficiency.  Compare this to an infantry platoon (27 troopers plus one officer; and also one-fourth of a tech team), and you can see the costs will favor all but the most ammunition intensive 'Mechs (Crusaders, I'm looking at you).  Plus, the 'Mech (and tech team) needs one administrator, while the platoon needs three.

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #52 on: 22 December 2017, 12:27:41 »
Didn't Nelson Geist get his Battlemaster from Evil Santa while driving a House Owned P-Hawk?

Yes.
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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #53 on: 22 December 2017, 16:06:50 »
...I was talking about a boneyard.
<snip>
to me the existence of family Mechs implies the existence of a secondary market for obtaining and servicing said Mechs, rather than state monopolies on Mech ownership.

The secondary market seems to consist primarily of personnel leaving House service, horse-trading between regiments, gifts from a lord to his friends or vassals, and groups temporarily adrift after the breakup of their previous unit. [Edit: Also 'Mechs or other assets and services offered in payment, restitution or bribe (which may account for much of what other people would call "sales to mercenaries"). /Edit]

In real life, technological progress and peacetime demobilization can result in boneyards full of perfectly usable machines. But in BattleTech, in these particular eras, technology and peace don't line up that way. So when I said "boneyard" I meant a place for cannibalization and scavenging usable parts - not a long-term reserve suitable for reactivation.

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Most any behaviour can probably be found amongst merc and pirate units. I'm just talking about Successor State militaries.

We know these things to be true, and we know some examples where but it might be a bit of a leap to infer a widespread "you keep what you kill" policy - informally? possible. Cash bounty? also very probable considering the desirability of being a Mechwarrior. Keeping more than 1 Mech - especially given the scarcity of Mechs previously discussed - a little unlikely.

Edit: Since OP brought up the Royal Navy's prize rules - it might be pointed out that the procedure was to first offer the ships to the Royal Navy, who might decide to "buy into service" the ships; otherwise they (and their cargoes) would be auctioned - depending on the condition of the prizes they might only get scrap value. The crews did not get the physical goods, they received cash. Another reason why I think a cash bounty is more likely than Mech ownership.

Royal navy practices aren't directly comparable because an individual crewman can't sail 1/80th of a ship, he can't take 1/80th of a ship with him to his next assignment, he can't repair or maintain or sell his 1/80th of a ship. A 'Mech, in contrast, can be owned and operated by a single person.

The "keep what you kill" policy seems to at least be a universal *baseline* among the feudal regiments in liege to the scavenger-society Houses. I agree that cash (or more likely, cash and a mix of parts and other goods) may be a common "buyout" and - as you suggested when you brought up mercenary salvage rights - other parties might have precedence. But how does "the desirability of being a MechWarrior" make a buyout more likely? 'Mechs are scarce, yes, but that fact only tells you that the "have nots" outnumber the "haves." It tells you nothing about how the "haves" distribute ownership amongst themselves.
« Last Edit: 22 December 2017, 16:18:08 by skiltao »
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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #54 on: 22 December 2017, 17:46:16 »
Nope. I've played BT on a weekly or bi-weekly bases for the last 10 years, and pilot deaths are extremely rare. Vehicle crew deaths are far more common.

Are you sticking to 3025?

LB-X autocannons, Case letting you not eject after an ammo explosion, gauss rifles, ppc's, anything that makes you fall...

I'm not saying everytime a mech goes down that the pilot dies. But if you're playing with 3145 tech the chances of a Mech being truly destroyed seem about the same as a pilot eating it. That isn't everytime a mech gets its engine shot out, its gyro shot out, or its leg blown off so surrender seems like a good deal.

In 3025 your pilots will probably survive though. If the mech takes an ammo crit the mech kicks him out of it. Unless he's a samurai... and the only thing that's going to knock your head off is an ac-20 and when someone brings an ac-20 people are on notice anyways.

Why does he have to take it off-world? It's not too hard to go native, and almost every world seems to have enough population that there may be local concerns with their own Mech Security outfit, or local merc bands looking to hire.  Why does everything about the merc trade have to be interstellar in nature?

Because unless he is working for the opposite faction he actually does have a, "Hey Mechwarrior Steve died out piloting his pheonix hawk, keep your eyes open for a pheonix hawk." problem.

and depending on whether you live on a forested planet or not having a two story war machine is really hard to hide... and unless the guys you took it from didn't win the planet the government is their government.

Also depending on what planet you are on merc units aren't incredibly common.

So despite what we've said about governments not caring that much to recover stolen war materials. We definitely didn't mean, "That you stole right now."

If you just took a battlemech right now then you need to get to Solaris or Outreach right now and figure out who the scummy guys are at the spaceport both leaving and entering those worlds.
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

guardiandashi

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #55 on: 22 December 2017, 18:29:48 »
there is always the slow roll theft option as well.

basically you capture the mech, and hide it until the heat dies down.

if you get your hands on it, stash it in a silo, bunker, warehouse, etc. for a year or 10 then you find someone who can get (forge) you good enough "ownership" paperwork that the law is more on your side (if anyone asks) and you are good to go.

Daemion

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #56 on: 24 December 2017, 23:26:58 »
Are you sticking to 3025?

Nope. We do mostly around 3067 with many units built off the percentages in FM:Updates. So, there are a few Basic Tech Mechs in the games along with lots of upgraded goodies.

Again. Even with LBX pellets and missile spam, head kills aren't that common.  Pilot kills in general are not that common.

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Daemion

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #57 on: 24 December 2017, 23:32:29 »
Also depending on what planet you are on merc units aren't incredibly common.

According to which book? I got the impression from the Field Manuals that there are all kinds of mercenary outfits which didn't make the cut for the Manual, but a lot of the ones which did are representative of many, many, many more.

Even the Touring the Stars doesn't go into detail about what's available for the merc trade.

And, every house FM mentions large amounts of forces, including Mech units not listed in the book. Again, there's a potentially large canvas to play on.

As slow as interstellar travel and trade seem to be, each planet can be a potential playground, without resorting to having to do a smash and grab off-shore.



It's your world. You can do anything you want in it. - Bob Ross

Every thought and device conceived by Satan and man must be explored and found wanting. - Donald Grey Barnhouse on the purpose of history and time.

I helped make a game! ^_^  - Forge Of War: Tactics

SCC

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #58 on: 26 December 2017, 04:45:15 »
Funny thing I've noticed working with Monbvol on his house rules and Campaign Ops.  Mech units are actually relatively cheaper to operate than vehicle or infantry based forces (for vehicles above 15 tons, at least).  Salaries end up being the biggest cost (just like the real world... who knew?).  Planetary militias need the numbers, though, as they end up with all kinds of other duties (e.g., disaster relief).

Support/technical costs aren't well-fleshed-out in the game. And there's the rarity factor, aside from cost. Sometimes Mechs just aren't for sale. Those who have them must be very well-connected, and usually if they are legitimate owners, that means well-heeled.

Yep, all things being equal the cost to maintain the 'Mech should range because of how economics works. But things aren't equal, the social conditions should really jack up MW salaries beyond where they should be and 'Mech Techs, which need more training, should require more pay (This doesn't account for their shortage before 3025)

And it just occurred to me the rules we have don't spell certain things out which will affect salaries, vehicle crew will be what, E1, E2, and E3? Well minimum rank for a MW if E6, so a MW salary will be $4,500 per month and a vehicle commander will be $1,800, tops.

Daryk

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Re: Where Do All The MechWarriors That Start/Join Mercs Come From?
« Reply #59 on: 26 December 2017, 08:16:23 »
Monbvol and I have been working through those exact numbers.  The minimum ranks for a MechWarrior are either E-5 (AToW, page 124) or "O-0" (as outlined in the same table, and explained in the AToW Companion, page 28).  I like to think of O-0 as "Warrant Officer".  The monthly salary difference (per the Campaign Operations formula on page 25) is:

MechWarriors:
E-5: (5/3+1) x 1,500 = 4,000 C-Bills per month
O-0: (3/3+1) x 1.2 x 1,500 = 3,600 C-Bills per month
and for comparison:
O-1: (4/3+1) x 1.2 x 1,500 = 4,200 C-Bills per month

Vehicle Crew have a lower base, and could be lower ranked as well:
Vehicle Commander (E-5 per the table on page 24 of the Companion):
E-5: (5/3+1) x 900 = 2,400
Vehicle Crew (charitably interpreting the same table in the Companion, which says an E-2 can be a "Trooper"):
E-2: (2/3+1) x 900 = 1,500
And a Vehicle Lance Commander for comparison:
O-1: (4/3+1) x 1.2 x 900 = 2,520

So, a vehicle with two crew would cost 3,900 to man, while one with three crew would be 5,400, and four would be 6,900.

Infantry also has a lower base, but again, greater numbers:
Squad Leaders are E-5 as outlined in both AToW and the Companion tables:
E-5: (5/3+1) x 750 = 2,000
Troopers are E-2s as discussed above:
E-2: (2/3+1) x 750 = 1,250

But in a generic squad there are six troopers, so a squad would cost 9,500 in salaries.
Every four squads requires an officer:
O-1: (4/3+1) x 1.2 x 750 = 2,100

Now, here's the real trick.  Every 'mech and vehicle requires a tech team (1 Technician, 6 AsTechs, using the CampOps table):
Technicians have no guidance on rank, but I think E-4 is reasonable for a "Specialist":
E-4: (4/3+1) x 800 = 1,866
AsTechs also have no guidance, but like the Vehicle Crew, "Trooper" seems appropriate:
E-2: (2/3+1) x 400 = 666

So a 'mech Tech Team adds another 5,866 C-Bills per month in salaries.  Things get more complicated if you use the AToW table referenced by CampOps (AToW page 335 differentiates the various kinds of technician, but doesn't have a separate entry for AsTech, instead relying on a "Quality/Expertise" multiplier).  Infantry needs one Tech Team per four Platoons (CampOps, page 20).

 

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