Author Topic: Fill out this Lance; Redux!  (Read 762 times)

Hammerhead

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Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« on: 26 November 2023, 16:54:07 »
Hey everybody. I’m in on another little campaign similar to the first one detailed here:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,81451.0.html

Rules are the same; 3025 standard tech, limited to 1 Heavy Mech max to start (last time it was two Heavies tops, but we changed it up a bit), 3 random rolls and one pick after all the rolls are complete.

The premise is a small Mercenary Unit trying to make the big time.  :grin:

I’ve made my 3 random rolls, and wound up with a PHX-1D Phoenix Hawk, a CPLT-C1 Catapult, and a HBK-4G Hunchback.

So, what Light or Medium Mech would you pick to fill out this lance?

Ruger

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #1 on: 26 November 2023, 17:47:33 »
With pretty much no anti-infantry ability, if your game includes them, I’d say a [iFirestarter[/i], Vulcan or Hermes (II).

If you don’t have to worry about things like Infantry, a Wolverine or Firebee.

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Sartris

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #2 on: 26 November 2023, 18:05:55 »
dervish. declare one of the SRM bins inferno

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Daryk

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #3 on: 26 November 2023, 18:37:44 »
Like last time, I'd recommend a WVR-6M for raw firepower.  If you really need some Anti-Infantry, a Vulcan would do the trick and bring some extra versatility.

Charistoph

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #4 on: 26 November 2023, 18:38:49 »
...or Firebee.

And if you don't know, a Firebee can do AI work with it's 4 SRM-2s with a ton of Inerno.  If all 4 hit, that's a Platoon gone if it isn't in a building.
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DevianID

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #5 on: 26 November 2023, 20:34:10 »
A wolverine 6R is like the best support mech.  You get AC for flak, SRM for inferno, both being decent anti infantry.  A black jack or hatchetman also has good flak options, but no anti infantry and no inferno.  The Vulcan is another pick, with weaker but still present flak, and anti infantry.  The Hunchback SP, Treb S, Whitworth S all have ideal inferno coverage, but no flak.

The wolverine also has 5 jump jets, giving a 6/5/4 jump spread and only leaving the hunchback in the cold.  A hermes 2, Shadowhawk or sentinel, would be other flak+anti infantry options, but the AI/inferno support is pretty weak.
« Last Edit: 26 November 2023, 20:36:37 by DevianID »

Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #6 on: 26 November 2023, 22:23:50 »

Griffin -1S.  The three mechs in your existing lance want to go in three different directions and do three different things. The Griffin -1S can knit them back together into a coherent lance.  The Griffin -1S can flank, hit, and run with the P-Hawk.  The Griffin -1S can close and brawl alongside the Hunchback.  And the Griffin -1S can add fire support to the Catapult on approach.  Solid, multi-role mobility, armor, firepower, and heat dissipation.

Unless you’re really expecting a lot of PBI, I would not pick an anti-infantry design, like a Vulcan, Firestarter, etc.  They’re very suboptimal for most engagements, and I wouldn’t sink a quarter of your force into that.  Closing to fight infantry at near point-blank range with flamers and MGs is a sucker’s game, anyway.  Eliminate PBIs from outside the range of their anti-mech attacks and weapons.  Frag missiles in the Griffin’s LRM-5 alone will kill 5 to 10 infantry every turn depending on the hex type.  That’s the safe way to deal with infantry — from afar.
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RifleMech

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #7 on: 27 November 2023, 06:14:37 »
For Light Mechs, I'd either go with a LCT-1V Locust or a  FFL-4A Firefly.

If you're expecting infantry, I'd go with the Locust for the machine guns. It could also use it's speed to scout for the others. If you're not expecting infantry, I'd go with the Firefly. It's not as fast but it has better armor and firepower than the Locust and it can jump.

For a Medium Mech I'd pick the Scorpion SCP-1N Wendall. It doesn't have quite the firepower or range of the 1N's PPC but it does have 2 more tons of armor giving it better protection. Either are fast enough to keep up with the Pixie or move around to keep backstabbers away from the Catapult and Hunchback. Plus the SRMs could use Infernos to deal with infantry and set fires.

I'm leaning toward the Scorpion. It's between the lights in speed, has better armor. And while it can't jump it can use different ammo for the SRM.

Hammerhead

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #8 on: 27 November 2023, 06:41:43 »
Griffin -1S.  The three mechs in your existing lance want to go in three different directions and do three different things. The Griffin -1S can knit them back together into a coherent lance.  The Griffin -1S can flank, hit, and run with the P-Hawk.  The Griffin -1S can close and brawl alongside the Hunchback.  And the Griffin -1S can add fire support to the Catapult on approach.  Solid, multi-role mobility, armor, firepower, and heat dissipation.

*snip*

This is an avenue I hadn’t considered, honestly. I was originally looking for something that covered any potential hole in the capabilities of the Mechs I already had, not that could support each in turn. Thanks for this. Definitely gives me something to think about.

As far as Infantry goes; there will be some certainly, but I don’t think there will be egregious amounts outside of possible militia support in certain scenarios. If the previous campaign is any indication, larger amounts of Armor assets with infantry as support in static fortification / urban environments. I did use (in the previous campaign) Flak rounds in my Rifleman once vs. Infantry for example, when raiding a supply depot.

Fat Guy

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #9 on: 28 November 2023, 16:14:22 »
Since you're not worried much about infantry, I'd go with a Wolfhound 1A for a light. For a medium I'd go with a Cronus 3M.
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #10 on: 28 November 2023, 16:17:02 »
This is an avenue I hadn’t considered, honestly. I was originally looking for something that covered any potential hole in the capabilities of the Mechs I already had, not that could support each in turn. Thanks for this. Definitely gives me something to think about.

I don’t think you’re really missing anything in terms of broad mech types.  The Hunchback is your brawler/juggernaut.  The Catapult is your missile boat and it can brawl when necessary.  And the P-Hawk is your skirmished/striker (and can scout/snipe in a pinch).  It’s pretty good for a multi-role lance.  Each mech is a solid choice (unlike the thin-skinned tinderboxes in your last thread).

My concern is that the lance might be too multi-role and have too much mobility dispersion.  For example, it would be easy for the P-Hawk to get isolated from the Catapult and Hunchback.  That’s why I think a good, mobile, multi-role mech that can assist the P-Hawk, Hunchback, and Catapult in their roles is the best option. 

And I think the Griffin -1S is the best multi-role mech for this lance.  I considered the Wolverine -6M, which is a better brawler, but it lacks some of Griffin’s flexibility (and you used it last time).  As mentioned upthread, the Wolverine -6R is also a decent multi-role option, but I find the AC/5 and single medium laser underpowered compared to the Griffin’s laser battery.  Dervish would be an option, but the SRM-2 ammo on top of the LRM ammo makes it a bit of a tinderbox.  Centurions and Enforcers are also options but too slow.  Everything else in the medium/light weight classes is too light (you want to use the upper end of the weight bracket you were given) or too specialized (AA, AI, AT, etc. designs have their place but only in bigger formations where you’re not sinking 25% of your force into something you may not use much — that’s what special munitions are for).

If downgraded Star League era designs from TRO 2750 or TRO 3058 are allowed, I’d consider the Kintaro -18, the Crab -20, or the Lynx -8Q.  None can jump, but their 5/8 speed should help them keep up with the P-Hawk.  The Crab and Lynx lack LRM fire support, but the dual large lasers and heat sinks to use them on each are a solid option for supporting the Catalpult or Hunchback.  Like the Griffin, the Kintaro has an LRM-5 to pop off while closing, but with three SRM-6s and a couple medium lasers, it can be brutal up close.  It’s not quit as multi-role as the Griffin, but its crit-seeking will nicely complement the Hunchback’s hole-punching and its sheer firepower and speed will nicely support the P-Hawk.  Although you have to watch the heat scale — usually alternate firing two or three SRM-6 packs with movement each turn to avoid negative heat modifiers — I can almost talk myself into taking the Kintaro over the Griffin.  As before with the Succession Wars-era designs, I think the other medium and light Star League era downgrades from TRO 2750 and 3058 are too light or specialized.

If you’re an aggressive player, the Kintaro may be your thing.  If not, stick with the Griffin.

[Edit/Add] — Guy has a good point on the Cronus.  If you want to do the Wolverine -6M thing again without actually using the Wolverine -6M, the Cronus -3M is the way to go.

« Last Edit: 28 November 2023, 16:25:06 by Natasha Kerensky »
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Hellraiser

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #11 on: 28 November 2023, 17:21:46 »
Hmm, is it truly 3025?  or just "Intro tech" because  I think the Cronus was introduced after the 4SW.

As for suggestions, it is hard to argue with the Dervish-6M & Griffin-1S mentioned above, especially since the Griffin-S is just about my favorite Intro Medium ever.

Along those lines a Trebuchet-5J would also fit in to a similar role being able to do FS & skirmisher functions.

The regular Treb-5N would give you flat out more LRMs which isn't a bad way to go either.
Similarly the humble Whitworth-1 will match with the Catapult nicely.

Finally, if you actually wanted anti-infantry support, the Vulcan-5T will compliment the Pixie & Hunchback in close & also keep grunts away.


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Hammerhead

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #12 on: 29 November 2023, 06:17:19 »
Hmm, is it truly 3025?  or just "Intro tech" because  I think the Cronus was introduced after the 4SW.

*snip*

This….is actually a really good question. I hadn’t thought of it like that, but I believe it was only “intro-tech” in the campaign layout. I’m going to need to confirm that one. I will guess that 3025-ish was the intention, but I’m not 100% on that.

Fat Guy

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #13 on: 29 November 2023, 12:01:39 »
If intro date isn't an issue, the KW1-LH2 Lineholder is a great introtech jack of all trades.
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Elmoth

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #14 on: 29 November 2023, 12:04:15 »
THe cronus 3M is a carbon copy of tghe wolverine 6M. Available in 3031 according to Sarna. The Cronus 5M is the upgraded version available in 3060.

Daryk

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #15 on: 29 November 2023, 18:13:55 »
Does the 3M have both hand actuators? ???

Vonshroom

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Re: Fill out this Lance; Redux!
« Reply #16 on: 01 December 2023, 16:06:37 »
Your forces are a little min/maxed to my eye. I actually have played a very similar lance in a campaign (swap Crusader for your Catapult) and it plays well.

What you are missing is a solid mid range fighter. The Catapult is great at long range and is going to want to keep enemies there until it runs out of missiles. The HBK is close range only, and the P-Hawk while it can fight at different ranges really prefers that short range flanking bracket. The lack of Anti-Infantry may be concerning but then again maybe not. Depends on your group / expected opposition.

I would lean really hard towards a Enforcer. You need 8 and 10 point hole punchers in your force. Great mid range trooper mech and can support your other mechs really well. Sure a 6M wolverine is the meta answer, but the old ENF-4R has won me many fights. A Centurion AL would be a solid option too, and would probably be my second pick. The AL has a better balanced weapons suite but doesn't give the Davion in me the same satisfaction as dropping AC/10 shells on people. The classic Centurion is too cheesy for the open role in your lance through with its lack of armor. If you need some more LRMS the AL is the way to go.
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