Poll

What's it Realy Good For?

Beating Up Pedestrians
3 (42.9%)
Beating Up Armor
4 (57.1%)
Beating Up DropShips
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 7

Author Topic: Value of Mimetic  (Read 910 times)

Goose

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Value of Mimetic
« on: 24 January 2024, 18:45:45 »
I'm not shore that description means what The Powers That Be … are shore it means.

Is it something 'bout bluffing sensor operators into not doing sensor ops? :shocked:

Or is the Unfair Advantage™ version of the rule just scenario-mooting, and thus something else was fudged-up?

Please: Enlighten me … :angel:
Goose
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AlphaMirage

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #1 on: 24 January 2024, 19:13:02 »
Mimetic armor is for ambush predators. You hide in the woods by a road or river and shoot into the flanks of a passing combat vehicle in order to chance an autocrit or motive damage with missiles (preferably tandem-charge). Any power armor can take down large numbers of infantry (or civilians) and dropships really are hard targets to get into on the ground (or should be despite what fiction says) and could be overwhelmed with regular infantry.

Daryk

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #2 on: 24 January 2024, 19:13:58 »
My vote is "Drawing AOE fire"... ;D

idea weenie

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #3 on: 24 January 2024, 20:52:15 »
The other use is turning your Mech into a giant 2D wall display to demonstrate your brilliant battle plan.   :cheesy:

ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #4 on: 25 January 2024, 06:25:51 »
Mimetic armor and laser heat sinks means battlemech dance party anytime, anywhere!
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #5 on: 25 January 2024, 06:53:25 »
None above those options on the vote, I think. It's exists for the battle armors that rides a vehicle, for you can unload them before the enemy openly but this act don't let them die in vain. They are not expected to move at all after that, but who cares, for using mimetic armors already means you don't want to make it a move at all. Yes also they could be the good ambushers as well.

Unless the opponent grabs their AOE weapons, of course, but will you think that non VTOL battle armor would be usable against hail of AOE weapons?

AlphaMirage

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #6 on: 25 January 2024, 07:16:24 »
I disagree puppy, you can already unload battle armor directly from vehicles and its not automatically a death sentence (there's that big vehicle to deal with after all which is probably more dangerous). Mimetic is an assassin's or special ops tool. You plan ambushes and use Mimetic to avoid detection from most recon assets while waiting for the enemy to get close enough for missiles (or a sniper rifle) or for calling in your own supporting assets via forward observation.

theothersarah

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #7 on: 25 January 2024, 08:55:07 »
Three of the C3 spotter BAs have Mimetic armor: Kage Light Battle Armor C, Infiltrator Mk. II Battle Armor Coral Intent, and Trinity Medium Battle Armor (Ying Long BC3). They aren't completely identical, but one or more writers thought that it was a good combo.

When you unload them somewhere the Mimetic armor helps protect them for that turn. Shooting at them might actually be a good decision to stop them from spotting, since only two troopers need to die to end the effect - and it would be an even better idea to shoot them if they didn't have the extra +3 to hit. Plus they aren't completely immobile - other than the Ying Long which can't jump, they get +2 if they jump three hexes and still get +3 if they jump only one hex, assuming you need to move them from the heavy woods you probably had them drop from the VTOL or dismount from the OmniMech into.

And you may ask "why not just keep it mounted and have it act as C3 added to the carrying unit for a cheap BV price?" Because equipment, even passive stuff, stops functioning while the unit is inside cargo or riding an OmniMech. So if you want to make use of a low price for a C3 spotter, it has to dismount at some point.
« Last Edit: 25 January 2024, 09:04:40 by theothersarah »

DevianID

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #8 on: 25 January 2024, 11:41:53 »
Yeah, I usually target battle armor on the drop turn, as they are most vulnerable then--and mimetic makes that really hard.  Transporting mimetic right up to the enemy is a great combo... the BA doesnt want to move much, so a cheap transport does the moving for them, and puts them into a really annoying position in front of the enemy.

BA as ambushers has never been my thing, and mimetic doesnt help that.  Why pay for mimetic/stealth on a hidden unit?  A cheap conventional infantry squad cant be picked up by active probes, and is cheaper and more damaging then mimetic BA.  The mimetic BA, on the other hand, can trade shots efficiently out of hiding, that's what you pay for with the stealth bonus.  Send the Meme squad up to the enemy gates and start blasting or spotting/Tag-ing without needing a special mission ability to have hidden units, enjoying a silly to-hit bonus in heavy woods while standing still in front of the enemy battle lines.

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #9 on: 25 January 2024, 11:48:30 »
I disagree puppy, you can already unload battle armor directly from vehicles and its not automatically a death sentence (there's that big vehicle to deal with after all which is probably more dangerous). Mimetic is an assassin's or special ops tool. You plan ambushes and use Mimetic to avoid detection from most recon assets while waiting for the enemy to get close enough for missiles (or a sniper rifle) or for calling in your own supporting assets via forward observation.

Although it's hard to just ignore the other unit, but still battle armor is considered to be not moved at all thus are very vulnerable target when they lands. However the most hard time to hit a battle armor with mimetic armor is when they did not move at all. Thus I don't think that it is not an advantage to dismount them openly - after all, unless you want them to be no more than the bait, you better use them without expose them while they are weak.

Also it is possible to drop them by a VTOL so it could be possible that the transport is not so juicy target.

Goose

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #10 on: 25 January 2024, 15:52:54 »
Mimetic armor and laser heat sinks means battlemech dance party anytime, anywhere!
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Goose
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Sabelkatten

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #11 on: 26 January 2024, 05:39:13 »
None above those options on the vote, I think. It's exists for the battle armors that rides a vehicle, for you can unload them before the enemy openly but this act don't let them die in vain. They are not expected to move at all after that, but who cares, for using mimetic armors already means you don't want to make it a move at all. Yes also they could be the good ambushers as well.

Unless the opponent grabs their AOE weapons, of course, but will you think that non VTOL battle armor would be usable against hail of AOE weapons?
...does mimetic armor work on VTOL BA?

Admittedly, flak weapons makes that potential strategy very questionable. +3 for mimetic, -3 for flak, and no TMM...

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #12 on: 26 January 2024, 07:08:27 »
...does mimetic armor work on VTOL BA?

Admittedly, flak weapons makes that potential strategy very questionable. +3 for mimetic, -3 for flak, and no TMM...

It does because nothing says no for combine those, if I remember correctly(it doesn't cancelled out by the jump either), but there is really no point on that apart +1 to the difficulty to hit them. Even if you put aside the fact that it must be the mixed tech unit in the first place, combine those effectively mutually exclusive features is not likely to be works well. I didn't intended for asking this either. Perhaps you could try if you can make a mixed tech BA as well as stuck at medium class but not heavier than that? Anyway VTOL BA means it cannot be either heavy or assault, which is not a good news for the BA with mimetic armor that is not expected to be move at all.

Sabelkatten

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #13 on: 27 January 2024, 06:17:30 »
Yeah, it was a silly idea. I simply realized that the "advanced" counter to mimetic BA is AE weapons - and most AE weapons don't work so well against aerial targets!

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #14 on: 28 January 2024, 06:36:23 »
By the way, apart ambush and unload the battle armor just before the opponent's units there won't be much benefit either. Although it is far reasonable choice than the void signature system, its bigger cousin, for battle armors are rarely have MP of 4 or more so even if you want them to be move you still get the partial bonus on it.

So what would be the best way to utilize this? It would makes them safe on the turn they disembarks, but that doesn't help them contribute anything on that same turn. Well, maybe, if you could make the custom units, and also have VTOL transport for BA and also use the optional rappelling rule on TO, then it is possible to drop the beacon for the C3/C3i. Although it is extremely heavy equipment and the armor would be does little than the beacon even for the assault battle armor.

Charistoph

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #15 on: 28 January 2024, 10:23:03 »
...does mimetic armor work on VTOL BA?

Admittedly, flak weapons makes that potential strategy very questionable. +3 for mimetic, -3 for flak, and no TMM...

+1 for being Airborne unless they're stupid.

Last Friday we were doing a capture and hold situation where Infantry are very useful.  Besides the 4 Mechs also on the group, someone brought 5-6 squads of those mosquitos called Kobold IIC.

A list I brought (which someone else ended up using) had 2 Rommel Howitzer (Productions) along with an Avatar Prime, Sunder R (for LB-X to counter VTOLs), and Hatchetman 6M (3 MPLs, HPPC).  Those LB-Xs definitely those Kobolds, but the Cluster Ammo was very slow in wiping them out.  The pulse lasers were a little more effective...  The LTACs on the Rommels proved less effective against them.  Another ConvInfantry dropped out of their transport down the way, wasn't so lucky, just getting splashed out in the open.
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Daryk

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #16 on: 28 January 2024, 10:29:26 »
LTACs not effective against BA?  How? ???

PuppyLikesLaserPointers

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #17 on: 28 January 2024, 13:10:43 »
LTACs not effective against BA?  How? ???

You cannot harm something with the elevation level higher than the AOE radius by an AOE. The problem is, VTOL BA is exclusive for clantech and also medium or lighter chassis, while mimetic is IS tech exclusive.

Daryk

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Re: Value of Mimetic
« Reply #18 on: 28 January 2024, 14:04:11 »
Ah... I guess you need flak for that...