How hard is it to get a custom Omni config in the IS?

[grimlock1]

I asked the same question over in the Clan Chatterweb and it occurred to me that IS military organizations are more bureaucratic in nature than the Clans.  So it seems like a valid question to bring up here as well.

This is and in-universe question.

Field repairs, and other exiting circumstances notwithstanding, what would be involved for Lieutenant Phil to get a custom config?  As I said, in the other thread, remixing existing configs seems like it would be pretty easy.  Take the right side Black Hawk KU Prime and left side of an A model doesn't involve any new mounting points or hardware.  Mounting paired LB-20's on an Avatar is a bit more involved. There is software to work out, ammo feeds to route, hardware to design and fabricate.  That's all time and money, which needs to be signed off by someone.

Quartermasters will probably be even crankier than mech techs when it comes to catering to the whims of every mech jock lucky enough to land their keister in an omni.

One bit of fiction that does come to mind is a passage from Wolf and Blake. "While we’ve used our short respite well—new augmentations, new pods for our Celestials—all of us are eager to return to the shadows."(pg 38)  This suggests that the Opacus was running stock configs for part of their campaign against the Widows. The passage is unlcear from where the impetus for the new pods came.

My guess is for a remix, the mechwarrior could probably order their tech to do it, assuming parts are available.

For something more complicated, I see lance and company commanders getting involved.  By complicated, I'm saying anything that doesn't use stock mounting hardware. A Savage Wolf Prime with large pulse lasers would be something the mechwarrior could authorize but if you wanted to flip those rear facing streak 6s forward, now you're into fab work.

As a process, I'm picturing a mechwarrior or tech has an idea, so they do some simulator work, then show it to the lieutenant.  The lieutenant likes what they see, so they authorize engineering time to refine the design and more sim time to validate it.  The lieutenant takes that to the major, who can then request the parts via the quartermaster.

[Colt Ward]

Well . . . easiest answer is to look at Grayson Addison of the New Syrtis Fusiliers, 8th?  Battalion commander given a brand new Templar (why, no idea outside of OOC showcasing the new design) and New Syrtis gets a shipment of the brand new Precision & Armor-Piercing AC shells.  He then orders his own configuration of the Templar created to take advantage of the new equipment . . . and its a surprise to his battalion's XO, who is a RAC-fan.

Now . . . the design MIGHT be a reason WHY you do not want a warrior designing or ordering a configuration since his battalion of the 8th was fighting on top of glaciers . . .

With all that flat open space, having 2 AC/5, 4 ERML, 2 SSRM4 and a TC with 3 JJ for added mobility is a questionable decision . . .

Now Grayson was a battalion commander in a prestige unit assigned to the capital of a march- and was already clearly special for being assigned a brand new Omni- but the fact it was not something considered a big deal he got a special loadout has to be taken into account.

[Sartris]

i would imagine it depends on a sliding scale of pilot importance, parts availability, tech skill, and logistics.

as advanced tech becomes more common by the end of the clan invasion and techs gain more skill in building custom pods, it probably becomes a less onerous request. i would guess it would be much easier in 3067 than 3055.

also being in the word of blake apparently helps. a lot of canon custom IS omni configs are celestials.

[grimlock1]

i would imagine it depends on a sliding scale of pilot importance, parts availability, tech skill, and logistics.

as advanced tech becomes more common by the end of the clan invasion and techs gain more skill in building custom pods, it probably becomes a less onerous request. i would guess it would be much easier in 3067 than 3055.

also being in the word of blake apparently helps. a lot of canon custom IS omni configs are celestials.

I was about single out the Lyrans for putting too much value on patronage, but then I remembered that all the houses have that problem. But I imagine the effectiveness of the design might have some impact.  Dropping the the PPC and large pulse from the Artic Fox C, in favor of some snubbies and 4 jump jets, and I'll get interested. Tell me about your really clever idea to put pairs of MRM 10, MRM 30, and machine guns on your Avatar and I'll start wondering if the kitchen needs any extra people. If the cherry on top is that you included and extra ton of machine gun ammo, I'll stop wondering.

If you have a sympathetic ear somewhere around the Major/Lt. Colonel level and a good idea, I want to believe you have a chance. Operation Bolo happened because a colonel walked in on a couple captains having a skull session in the back room.  The colonel heard something he liked and told them to come back with proper plan.

[Colt Ward]

Tell me about your really clever idea to put pairs of MRM 10, MRM 30, and machine guns on your Avatar and I'll start wondering if the kitchen needs any extra people. If the cherry on top is that you included and extra ton of machine gun ammo, I'll stop wondering.

Dunno, MRMs and C3 networks really do work for damage potential . . . and if the C3 spotter gets collanderized, then its great that you used a Omni b/c now it can go back to a  config that has a chance of hitting without the spotter.

[dgorsman]

Units with more than a token number of omni's (I'll include vehicles too - same pods) will also have a good selection to choose from.  I don't think it's likely they'll be fabricating much if any out of non-pod equipment.

Aside from gunslinger type pilots, configurations would be detailed at company or higher level based on the operational plan of the day.  The higher up the decision the more general the guidance, from LRM support or urban combat down to a designated configuration.  Pilot might get to switch sides if they're a lefty, or maybe switch an MPL for a pair of ERML if there's excess stock.

[Colt Ward]

Units with more than a token number of omni's (I'll include vehicles too - same pods) will also have a good selection to choose from.  I don't think it's likely they'll be fabricating much if any out of non-pod equipment.

About any weapons can go in a pod- so if you are a merc with a Omni and salvage that nifty new weapon the Other side has, you can make it pod-able.  Takes a bit of time, the pod connections and pay for the techs.  It can also go the other way (but maybe why would you do that?) during the Clan invasion, IS forces could strip the weapons out of pods to hard-wire into their standard battlemechs.  Makes you wonder how many IS mechs were floating around in the 50s with Clan weapons still mounted in the pod.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Dunno, MRMs and C3 networks really do work for damage potential . . . and if the C3 spotter gets collanderized, then its great that you used a Omni b/c now it can go back to a  config that has a chance of hitting without the spotter.

I think the issue was mismatched sizes of MRM launchers combined with machine guns that have far too much ammo, indicating that the mechwarrior in question has failed a sanity check.

[RifleMech]

I think it would depend on a number of things;

1) If the mech is privately owned or owned by the military/company. Privately owners have more say in what happens with their machine.
2) The Pilot's strengths. A Missile specialist would get a config with missiles.
3) The parts available. The part may or may not be available.
4) What the Customization is - It's a lot easier to change pods than it is to change fixed equipment.
5) Who's paying for it. Bob may want this pod but he'll have to take what the boss pays for or he buys it himself.
5) Special Missions - There maybe times where missions dictate the configuration so Bob's configuration is going to be changed.

[grimlock1]

I think the issue was mismatched sizes of MRM launchers combined with machine guns that have far too much ammo, indicating that the mechwarrior in question has failed a sanity check.

The mismatched sizes show up plenty in cannon :bang:, but I'm not a fan of MRMs.  They extra ton of machine gun ammo was the cherry on top of what I hoped was a stupid sundae. Once ColtWard said that, I knew that no matter what kind of stupid I suggested, someone would find a way to make it useful.  :facepalm:

For the "good" example, I tried really hard to find a fast omni that could fit an Arrow IV, the fastest IS omni could find was the Avatar at a meh 4/6.  :(  The idea of artillery moving 6/9 made my inner child giggle.

1) If the mech is privately owned or owned by the military/company. Privately owners have more say in what happens with their machine.

Even it its a private omni, it's the military's pods.  That does lead to an interesting wrinkle.  Say you bring your family Black Hawk KU with you to a House unit.  Over the course of years, the pods you brought with you get damaged, replaced, or maybe even lost when your unit had to make a rapid tactical advance to the rear.  You retire and go back home with your 'Hawk, do you keep the pods?

2) The Pilot's strengths. A Missile specialist would get a config with missiles.
3) The parts available. The part may or may not be available.

These also apply in choosing stock configs.
If you only have 2 gauss rifles in the inventory and Alice has Sniper, Weapon Specialist, Gauss Rifle, and Markswomen SPAs, then it only makes sense to set her Avatar up in G config.  Bob just doesn't get his Templar Prime today.

4) What the Customization is - It's a lot easier to change pods than it is to change fixed equipment.

I never meant to suggest customizing the fixed equipment.  Anyone who suggests letting the Omnismoke escape without a DAMN good reason needs to report to the base psychiatrist to repeat their IQ test.

5) Who's paying for it. Bob may want this pod but he'll have to take what the boss pays for or he buys it himself.

Excellent point.  I forgot about the dynamic in merc outfits.

5) Special Missions - There maybe times where missions dictate the configuration so Bob's configuration is going to be changed.

Yeah, that's going to happen too.   I think it was Jade Phoenix book 2 where Kael made Aiden's star change out their equipment so they could mount hand actuators. Something to do with negotiating some nasty terrain.  IIRC, Aiden was driving a Thor, Horse had a Loki, and I think there was a Vulture in the mix.  None of the Rival era configs have hands but a number of them preclude them by virtue of ballistics or PPCs in the arms. So that is a cannon example of, "Just got a rush job from Higher Up.  We need to make new configurations."  Granted this was coming from a Star Colonel.  I knew a USMC Colonel who had to be someplace so he called the flight line and told them to prep his Hornet, and he was in the air in an hour or two. 

[Colt Ward]

Oh, I tossed out the MGs . . . and while I dislike MRMs as well, relegating them to combat engineer units that need to re-arrange the battlescape . . . A Avatar with 2 MRM30, CASE II in a side torso with the ammo, C3 slave, ECM and a few DHS would work with a dedicated C3 force IMO.  Of course it would be better facing the FedSuns than the Ghost Bears, and would try to keep at 11-15 hexes while the spotter was at 5.  My casual dismissal of MRMs is why I looked a bit closer at the idea- primary goal being to pepper it with damage and force a PSR.

IMO if its a private Omni, its maintenance and access to pods would be similar to a private standard mech employed in House service- namely that as long as it is a authorized/ordered action the House will be responsible for repairing & replacing equipment.  Daddy bought you a Black Hawk KU upon assignment to 1FSACR after graduating NAIS, and it was fitted as a OE when you showed up for duty then the AFFS is responsible for the maintenance of that unit within the unit/AFFS norms.  Now, if you are taking the hottest new act at the Red Nights (located right outside the base's main gate) for a midnight ride through the firing range while she rides in your lap . . . and you happen to be distract enough to let your shiny Omni-Mech trip and fall so that a few tons of armor get scraped off with maybe a actuator being tweaked . . . Well, your the mechwarrior now responsible for the cost of repairing your equipment to meet standards (ask how that works to anyone who had to sign papers with Supply after a showdown)- unless your Daddy is also a Lyran general, then the paperwork will say that you were conducting a solo training exercise for the purposes of stimulating distractions such as found in a combat environment.  Now the Lyran state covers the cost of the repairs and you get a Purple Heart for the bruised booboo you got when the mech fell.

Inventory, especially during combat operations is what leads me to think there are a lot of impromptu configurations that happen.  Your battalion with its 5 or 6 Omnis see a steady stream of action and since its a pair of Black Hawk KUs, Sunder, Firestarter, Templar, and Avatar you use quite a few SSRMs in pods.  In fact, one of the Black Hawk KU's was awarded the machine as part of their bravery during Operation Bulldog and as a replacement for the family Exterminator- it was also fitted with Clan weapon pods (R config) which is what the warrior kept on duty.  But now combat has been going on for a few weeks and one of the Clan SSRM6 pods was torn apart when the arm was repeatedly hit.  So does the tech go back to the mechwarrior, his CO and the battalion commander and say- "Sorry sir, Valencia Vixen, your Black Hawk KU cannot be left in its current configuration since we do not have a spare Clan Streak SRM6 pod or any Clan Streaks to replace it.  But we can give you the A configuration which will hit the same range since we have a pair of ERPPCs in pods!  Or we can wait 7 hours and hope our veteran tech can repair that Clan Streak system, but sir in that time he will not be patching the armor on a Stalker."

The tech, after getting his ears boxed by the senior tech, will be instructed to pull that frigging pod to be repaired when possible (or scrapped) and replace it with a IS SSRM4 that maybe the Templar is not using.  Or maybe they are using 2 SRM4 pods, ton of ammo, and pull the C3 slave since it is deadweight since Jackson's C3M mech was destroyed.  If the Black Hawk KU ever showed up at its duty station with a C3 slave in place, or with no masters in the battalion kept it after arriving.

[RifleMech]

Even it its a private omni, it's the military's pods.  That does lead to an interesting wrinkle.  Say you bring your family Black Hawk KU with you to a House unit.  Over the course of years, the pods you brought with you get damaged, replaced, or maybe even lost when your unit had to make a rapid tactical advance to the rear.  You retire and go back home with your 'Hawk, do you keep the pods?

I think your get to keep what you brought in. If there's been changes to that one party pays the other the difference.

 
 These also apply in choosing stock configs.
If you only have 2 gauss rifles in the inventory and Alice has Sniper, Weapon Specialist, Gauss Rifle, and Markswomen SPAs, then it only makes sense to set her Avatar up in G config.  Bob just doesn't get his Templar Prime today.

That's true.

 
I never meant to suggest customizing the fixed equipment.  Anyone who suggests letting the Omnismoke escape without a DAMN good reason needs to report to the base psychiatrist to repeat their IQ test.

That's no longer true. Here's my post from the clan thread.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=64777.msg1490905#msg1490905

Excellent point.  I forgot about the dynamic in merc outfits. 

Thanks. It might apply in military units as well. You buy it they'll put it in.

Yeah, that's going to happen too.   I think it was Jade Phoenix book 2 where Kael made Aiden's star change out their equipment so they could mount hand actuators. Something to do with negotiating some nasty terrain.  IIRC, Aiden was driving a Thor, Horse had a Loki, and I think there was a Vulture in the mix.  None of the Rival era configs have hands but a number of them preclude them by virtue of ballistics or PPCs in the arms. So that is a cannon example of, "Just got a rush job from Higher Up.  We need to make new configurations."  Granted this was coming from a Star Colonel.  I knew a USMC Colonel who had to be someplace so he called the flight line and told them to prep his Hornet, and he was in the air in an hour or two.
 

I believe it also happened in the third book. Aiden had his entire unit equipped with jump jets.

[Colt Ward]

Oh dear GOD, the rules are going to let me put ERML instead of ML on the Avatar?  I can get rid of small cockpits on Celestials?

[RifleMech]

Looks like it >:D

[Sartris]

it's time

to unsuck the perseus

[Colt Ward]

it's time

to unsuck the perseus

Um, moving the ES and FF?

[RifleMech]

Looks like it. You need a factory though.

[Sartris]

Um, moving the ES and FF?

I’d drop FF altogether. The crits are more important than the weight on that boy. It’s probably too early for an LFE but the 14 crits would be good to have back

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Interesting.  Though unless they're going to issue a new record sheet, Julian Davion's Templar III is still a non-omni, as it's got Lower Arm Actuators and ER PPCs.

[RifleMech]

Interesting.  Though unless they're going to issue a new record sheet, Julian Davion's Templar III is still a non-omni, as it's got Lower Arm Actuators and ER PPCs.

Was it refit in the field or in a factory? Being refit in a factory seems to key to not losing OMNIsmoke.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

It was a present from Devlin Stone.  I'd assume that it was a factory job since it was part of the stuff he got on his trip behind the Wall.

[RifleMech]

Do we know anything more about it? Like when it was customized or who customized it? Is it possible it was customized before Stone got it?

[grimlock1]

I’d drop FF altogether. The crits are more important than the weight on that boy. It’s probably too early for an LFE but the 14 crits would be good to have back

All depends.  If it's a piece of salvage in the 3080s and the XLE got critted out and you have the time and money, it might be worth it.

 

Interesting.  Though unless they're going to issue a new record sheet, Julian Davion's Templar III is still a non-omni, as it's got Lower Arm Actuators and ER PPCs.

WHY?  Why let the omni-smoke out if you don't have to? :bang:

[Sartris]

All depends.  If it's a piece of salvage in the 3080s and the XLE got critted out and you have the time and money, it might be worth it.

absolutely. i was thinking a "go back in time and beat the FWDI engineers within an inch of their lives and make them start over" kind of scenario

[/quote]
 WHY?  Why let the omni-smoke out if you don't have to? :bang:
[/quote]

this is precisely on-brand ;D

[grimlock1]

absolutely. i was thinking a "go back in time and beat the FWDI engineers within an inch of their lives and make them start over" kind of scenario


 WHY?  Why let the omni-smoke out if you don't have to? :bang:


this is precisely on-brand ;D

And I thought Caleb got all the crazy in that generation of Davions...

[Orin J.]

...Could be they had no use for an omni at the time and julian likes the control with the extra actuators. Besides, if it's clan-spec ERPPCs maybe they didn't see any value in having them easy to swap out? i mean what else do you need?

[Sartris]

...Could be they had no use for an omni at the time and julian likes the control with the extra actuators. Besides, if it's clan-spec ERPPCs maybe they didn't see any value in having them easy to swap out? i mean what else do you need?

you present an excellent argument

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

...Could be they had no use for an omni at the time and julian likes the control with the extra actuators. Besides, if it's clan-spec ERPPCs maybe they didn't see any value in having them easy to swap out? i mean what else do you need?

The mech was part of a group that was presented to Julian by Devlin.  Julian didn't have any influence on it.

I suppose they could have decided to give it the extra actuators, but that seems like a terrible reason for letting the omnismoke out.

[RifleMech]

Maybe it was repaired with whatever was on hand? That way it gets it back in the fight quickly rather than waiting in the hanger for parts?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Who knows.  At the end of the day, I suppose it doesn't matter that much what the reason was, just that it happened.

[RifleMech]

That and there is a way to customize OMNIs.  :)

[Mohammed As`Zaman Bey]

Money. If you have enough of it, just about anything is available.

[grimlock1]

Money. If you have enough of it, just about anything is available.

Fine, if you want to take all the rules lawyering, mental gymnastics and vitriol out of the situation, be that way!   :)

[AJC46]

i keep getting conflicting info.

what can you do with the fixed equipment of a omni that has such ie the fixed medium lasers of a avatar or the fixed flamer of the adder/puma?

[Sartris]

New errata lets you mod it without letting out the Omni smoke. Check out the newest strategic ops customization errata document page 2

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejlnf6q9ng3owck/StratOps%20-%20Refitting%20Revised-Final.pdf?dl=0

[Empyrus]

That is interesting, and overall the new changes to refits (like making CASE a maintenance facility thing) are good.

I don't really agree with that Omni procedure... though then again it is logical:

What happens is that a factory essentially makes one unique OmniMech. The Omni is modified, the gyro is recalibrated to work with the now modified chassis, and things are tested and confirmed working.

As for why not just modify existing factory lines (eg Avatar), usually it is not worth it. The Avatar's twin medium lasers aren't really waste ever. The flamer on the Adder is inconsequential.

Also since folks were talking about the Perseus, it has no Ferro-Fibrous.

[Maingunnery]

So now it is possible to add DHS to the Strider Omnimech.  >:D

[ANS Kamas P81]

Man I feel weird about starting that whole mess.

I guess now the Hellbringer has even less excuse than Big Brass Falcon Balls to be the way it is...

[Empyrus]

I'll repeat: Modifying existing factory lines is not really feasible. Some changes are big (eg rebuilding Hellbringers with Endo-Steel), some are small enough not to be worth it (replaced the Avatar's Medium Lasers).
Hellbringer 2 could have been made anytime before, it was never done because it wasn't worth it. EDIT The original Hellbringer is presumably in production because 1) Clanners really like firepower 2) It is pretty resource inexpensive, only needing XLFEs. Given that Clanners spend 'Mechs in duels like crazy, not having to deal with Endo-Steel or Ferro-Fibrous is economical.

Modifying an individual 'Mech in a factory? Possible, if you can spare the time and expense. But honestly, i don't think it is worth it. I sure as hell would rather get another 'Mech than spend time and resources rebuilding a Hellbringer with Endo-Steel. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it is smart.

[Colt Ward]

Also remember, its a meta rule in a book that is filled with other optional rules.  So if you are planning a universe spanning campaign and do not want to have Omnis where a base chassis can change?  well presto! it cannot change.

The biggest benefit I can think of- since I argued it some- is that it gives a bit more life for Celestials, a frail that wants to take on that stigma can get rid of the small cockpit.  Oh and swap those MLs for ERMLs on the Avatar . . .

[grimlock1]

I'll repeat: Modifying existing factory lines is not really feasible. Some changes are big (eg rebuilding Hellbringers with Endo-Steel), some are small enough not to be worth it (replaced the Avatar's Medium Lasers).
Hellbringer 2 could have been made anytime before, it was never done because it wasn't worth it. EDIT The original Hellbringer is presumably in production because 1) Clanners really like firepower 2) It is pretty resource inexpensive, only needing XLFEs. Given that Clanners spend 'Mechs in duels like crazy, not having to deal with Endo-Steel or Ferro-Fibrous is economical.

Modifying an individual 'Mech in a factory? Possible, if you can spare the time and expense. But honestly, i don't think it is worth it. I sure as hell would rather get another 'Mech than spend time and resources rebuilding a Hellbringer with Endo-Steel. Just because it can be done doesn't mean it is smart.

We have cannon examples.  Stone's forces captured the production lines AND the technical data packages for the Bolla Stealth Tank. Thus, we get the RoTS Bolla, with C3, a 4 ton troop bay and more pod space.

[Empyrus]

We have cannon examples.  Stone's forces captured the production lines AND the technical data packages for the Bolla Stealth Tank. Thus, we get the RoTS Bolla, with C3, a 4 ton troop bay and more pod space.

The Bolla is an extremely rare exception, and done because Stone evidently really wanted a stealth tank for his spec op forces, plus his forces neatly had the plans and the factory. Most of the Blakist special gear (eg Celestials) got destroyed.

If we ever hear of the Homeworld Clans, we might get another exception: The Osteon. The TWOR supplemental notes that it is being investigated for continued production if the Nova CEWS can be removed, but the writeup notes that it is rather integrated into the chassis so the 'Mech is banned for now...

I will note that in-universe, modifying a 'Mech may not be as simple as rules make it. Consider the Avatar: with BMM, it gained perk "Stabilized Weapon (CT medium lasers)". So, the weapons are in stabilized mounts. Rules-wise, upgrading them is simple factory job. In-universe... well, are ER Medium Lasers identical to standard lasers? It might be that the mounts would need to be modified to fit ER types there, and that might require other modifications, causing a cascade of modifications, and everything needs to be tested. Might not be worth it.
Likewise, the Osteon. Rules-wise, removing the Nova CEWS is simple, in-universe evidently not so.

[Colt Ward]

Did the errata un-'fix' all the IS Omni's CASE?

[Empyrus]

Did the errata un-'fix' all the IS Omni's CASE?

All it does is allow customizing Omnis with the rules in StratOps.
I highly doubt errata will be issued for record sheets.

The CASE could be removed with those rules though, but why bother? Half a ton only, it is useful, most 'Mechs with make good use of it.

[grimlock1]

The Bolla is an extremely rare exception, and done because Stone evidently really wanted a stealth tank for his spec op forces, plus his forces neatly had the plans and the factory. Most of the Blakist special gear (eg Celestials) got destroyed.

If we ever hear of the Homeworld Clans, we might get another exception: The Osteon. The TWOR supplemental notes that it is being investigated for continued production if the Nova CEWS can be removed, but the writeup notes that it is rather integrated into the chassis so the 'Mech is banned for now...

I will note that in-universe, modifying a 'Mech may not be as simple as rules make it. Consider the Avatar: with BMM, it gained perk "Stabilized Weapon (CT medium lasers)". So, the weapons are in stabilized mounts. Rules-wise, upgrading them is simple factory job. In-universe... well, are ER Medium Lasers identical to standard lasers? It might be that the mounts would need to be modified to fit ER types there, and that might require other modifications, causing a cascade of modifications, and everything needs to be tested. Might not be worth it.
Likewise, the Osteon. Rules-wise, removing the Nova CEWS is simple, in-universe evidently not so.

The Osteon can be "fixed" with a software patch that disables the target sharing features.  Either that or just "By order of the Grand Council, any surats who use the target sharing feature shall be Reaved." 

[Empyrus]

The Osteon can be "fixed" with a software patch that disables the target sharing features.  Either that or just "By order of the Grand Council, any surats who use the target sharing feature shall be Reaved."

Were it so simple, they would've done it.
"the extensive integration of the CEWS prohibits immediate modifications"
I'd say this implies the Nova CEWS isn't just a component, it is fully part of the 'Mechs targeting and tracking systems, fire control computers, sensors, etc.

[grimlock1]

Were it so simple, they would've done it.
"the extensive integration of the CEWS prohibits immediate modifications"
I'd say this implies the Nova CEWS isn't just a component, it is fully part of the 'Mechs targeting and tracking systems, fire control computers, sensors, etc.

:facepalm: The dangers of revising a post too many times. 

I mean tot suggest that software patch could disable the controls.  That's operating on the assumption that omni cockpits are all about the MFD and configurable touchscreens.  In that case, comment out the line of software that says Button 7 maps to SYNC_NOVA_TARGDAT($FRIENDLY), or whatever.

There's also the procedural fix.  "I am an honorable warrior! I vow I shall NEVER use that dishonorable button!"

[Empyrus]

I figure BattleMechs are heavily automated (they do have only one crew after all), with sensor fusion and all that stuff. So a procedural fix might not be enough, and software fix is just as complex (contrast to real world fighters where software is enormous part of how stuff functions and of development expenses).

[Maingunnery]

This also assumes that other warriors will trust others to not use the link.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Or the Clans could just avoid deploying multiple Osteons at one time.

But of course this thread was about omnimechs in the Inner Sphere and the Osteon really doesn't count for that.

[Colt Ward]

Hm, list time . . . what base chassis would be candidates for mods?

Celestials- C3i & Small Cockpit
Avatar- 2 MLs
Firestarter-  2 Flamers
Men Shen- BAP

Avalanche-  jumpjets & CASE
Gauntlet-  MASC
Vandal-  Supercharger
Doloire-  Avatar's problem on steroids, Clan ERML in the CT

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I don't know that I'd count a pair of fixed Clan ER Medium Lasers as a "problem."

[Colt Ward]

Which is why I said steroids, the ML was a solid fixed choice at that time but the point about Omnis is being able to swap the load.

[Sartris]

Anything with fixed sinks or jump jets

[grimlock1]

Hm, list time . . . what base chassis would be candidates for mods?

Celestials- C3i & Small Cockpit
Avatar- 2 MLs
Firestarter-  2 Flamers
Men Shen- BAP

Avalanche-  jumpjets & CASE
Gauntlet-  MASC
Vandal-  Supercharger
Doloire-  Avatar's problem on steroids, Clan ERML in the CT

No mention of the Owens?

[Colt Ward]

Strider is the one that suffers more for the SHS IMO, but yeah I was so focused on the Raptor that I forgot those two lights.  New there was something with the originals I was forgetting.

[grimlock1]

Strider is the one that suffers more for the SHS IMO, but yeah I was so focused on the Raptor that I forgot those two lights.  New there was something with the originals I was forgetting.

Eh, I would leave the Raptor as is. Yeah, its thin skinned, but it's a 25 tonner.  11.5 tons of pod isn't a whole lot to play with but again, it's a 25 tonner.

The Strider is like something right out of 3050!  Can I just part it out?

Yanking the small cockpit from the Celestials would probably create a knockon effect of changes to a lot of other configs.  Don't a bunch of them use both free crits in the head?  But it's an omni so that's probably not a show stopper.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

All the Celestials use the Small Cockpit slot for pod-mounted equipment, so it shouldn't be an issue unless the mech was supremely crit-packed (and even then, you're losing a ton of pod space so something's got to change anyway).

[grimlock1]

All the Celestials use the Small Cockpit slot for pod-mounted equipment, so it shouldn't be an issue unless the mech was supremely crit-packed (and even then, you're losing a ton of pod space so something's got to change anyway).

presumably the c3 slave for c3i swap will take care of that.  I'm kinda inclined to keep the c3i if possible.  I've found that 4 mech lances are a bit brittle.  6 mech formations can absorb a bit more losses.   I found the same thing playing XCOM and XCOM 2.

[Colt Ward]

I am not suggesting we are going to get Republic Celestials, I am merely saying I have a merc unit that will try to buck the stigma to keep some.  They are likely to pull the C3i and definitely the Small Cockpit.

[grimlock1]

I am not suggesting we are going to get Republic Celestials, I am merely saying I have a merc unit that will try to buck the stigma to keep some.  They are likely to pull the C3i and definitely the Small Cockpit.

If I can find an above average pilot, I might even keep the small cockpit. The +1 PSR is no worse than what comes from torso cockpits, hardened armor, or modular armor, Heck, the Stalker II uses hardened armor AND a torso cockpit!


Idle thought:  Is stripping out the VDNI interface and replacing it with a standard, albiet small size cockpit also a Class F refit?

[RifleMech]

If I can find an above average pilot, I might even keep the small cockpit. The +1 PSR is no worse than what comes from torso cockpits, hardened armor, or modular armor, Heck, the Stalker II uses hardened armor AND a torso cockpit!


Idle thought:  Is stripping out the VDNI interface and replacing it with a standard, albiet small size cockpit also a Class F refit?

That's how I read the rules.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

If I can find an above average pilot, I might even keep the small cockpit. The +1 PSR is no worse than what comes from torso cockpits, hardened armor, or modular armor, Heck, the Stalker II uses hardened armor AND a torso cockpit!

And the No/Minimal Arms quirk.

Idle thought:  Is stripping out the VDNI interface and replacing it with a standard, albiet small size cockpit also a Class F refit?

I don't see why it wouldn't be.

[grimlock1]

And the No/Minimal Arms quirk.


I don't see why it wouldn't be.

Because that would make every clanner running EI would have had to let the omnismoke out of their mech, at least until this errata... 
:fine_print:

[RifleMech]

Because that would make every clanner running EI would have had to let the omnismoke out of their mech, at least until this errata... 
:fine_print:

Not really. While they're in the med unit receiving the EI implants their mech is in the factory being refit with the EI Interface unit.

[Colt Ward]

Except among the Clans, its not personal mechs and they can be re-assigned at any time or lose their special ride to a 5 minute Trial.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Swapping between a standard cockpit and an EI interface really shouldn't be that hard on a Clan Omnimech.  The implants are pretty rare, so it has to be relatively easy for the adjustment to be made if it's going to be at all useful.  Otherwise the first time a warrior with EI implants gets his ride shot out from under him he's useless.

[RifleMech]

From how the description reads in Interstellar Ops some of the back of systems are removed to install the EI Interface. So any pilot can use the mech. They just can't use the EI System.

[grimlock1]

Swapping between a standard cockpit and an EI interface really shouldn't be that hard on a Clan Omnimech.  The implants are pretty rare, so it has to be relatively easy for the adjustment to be made if it's going to be at all useful.  Otherwise the first time a warrior with EI implants gets his ride shot out from under him he's useless.

Can someone with EI, or VDNI for that matter use a regular neurohelmet?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I want to say that they can, but I don't have anything to support that.