BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Universe => The Inner Sphere => Topic started by: Colt Ward on 07 August 2018, 15:20:53
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Since I cannot find the FedSuns thread . . .
After reading Shattered Fortress I have a couple questions . . .
We never learn who is going to be the Duke/Marshall of the Draconis March?
Where is Amanda's son that had been holding off the Capellans in a little bulge that was all that remained of the Capellan March in that area?
The Taurians did not get adventuresome?
Nice to see Goshen military college get a shout out- heck, should be the remaining premier military school!
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Those are good questions, with no current answers as best I could tell from reading
it.
Regards the Taurians, I believe they're more likely to be miffed at Liao than Davion
right now. Seeing as ER3145 mentioned them losing a few worlds to the CC. I'm
kinda pleased to see things turn around for the TC, even if they did lose the plot
back in the Jihad.
Did anyone else want to know more about the Davion Irregular units, I think I counted
at least 4? The book seemed to indicate combined arms battalions, and from the
sounds of things they did well on Robinson. I want more info on them, they sound
interesting.
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For arcane historical reasons, the Davion Thread resides in the Mechwarrior Hall. Feel free to drop by, but do recall that the cover charge is payable in the skulls of our enemies.
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For arcane historical reasons, the Davion Thread resides in the Mechwarrior Hall. Feel free to drop by, but do recall that the cover charge is payable in the skulls of our enemies.
Not so much arcane, more a case of general manners and civility. We don't sit basking in the midst
of places where business ought to be done, unlike the hoi polloi ;)
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So...assuming the AFFS eventually moves to retake New Avalon, when and how do you think they'll do it? And what state do you think the planet will be in afterward?
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Well, it was already described that every single sign of House Davion or the FedSuns was removed- buildings were demolished or sandblasted, statues and memorials were destroyed (makes me wonder if they wrecked military graveyards?), and anything running counter to the Combine's meta-Japanese culture was attacked. They even killed the pope and hunted down the other religious figures.
So a fun bit would be . . . when the mechs smashed Hanse Davion's statue . . . did people manage to steal parts of it? (Hey . . . come to my home, I can show you Hanse's ear!)
They will also have a problem with how much the world's industry was sabotaged- even if the Dracs do not do worse as they are retreating.
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Well thus far we know both Johnson on New Syrtis and Robinson Battleworks,
are intact.
Robinson lost it's workforce to the Drac occupation. Johnson is now making
the new variant Caesar according to TRO3150.
Getting back to the query made by Kojak, I doubt they'll torch the industry on
New Avalon. There's been no sign of that form of warfare in the Dark Age, asides
whatever happened on Kwamashu in the former FWL. The 800lb gorilla with any
nasty ideas for NA, is the spectre of Kentares. They could, but I doubt they'd
dare. Killing a Pope and Clerics is bad enough, but to do more would ignite a
powder keg. Especially with the DCMS over stretched as it is, any further
outrages could tip the scales.
Thinking about Fed Suns industry in the current timeline, it's actually in apparently
better shape than I feared. At least mech wise the following seem to be in Fed
Suns hands in 3150.
Mechs - Augusta, Cahokia, Crofton, El Dorado, Kathil, New Syrtis, Panpour, Robinson,
Talcott, New Valencia.
Aerospace and Armour, seem to be mostly intact excepting New Avalon. So there we're
also well placed.
On logistics I am more concerned by the business of replenishing troops, by my
reckoning we lost 5 acadamies during the years 3140-50. Two we regained with
New Syrtis and Robinson returing to us. But the loss of Sakhara and the two
on New Avalon, are worrying. However the new Davion Irregular formations,
make me wonder if some acceleration has happened with the old Training Battalions.
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They killed the Pope? Are the fools trying to invoke the specter of Amaris? Do they want his successor massively expanding the Knights Defensor and launching a good old fashioned Crusade?
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They killed the Pope? Are the fools trying to invoke the specter of Amaris? Do they want his successor massively expanding the Knights Defensor and launching a good old fashioned Crusade?
:o
Looks like the Combine didn't learn from the past but given the current way the timeline is going I'll be shocked if they pull another Kentares massacre/AFFS revival scenario
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Agreed, it's not to my mind going to play that way.
I speculate the following. Julian is going to revisit the Cerberus plan, or make
it seem that he is. He's going to pinch off the Dragons Tongue towards NA.
I think he's going to make a deal with another player, in order to pressure
the hell out of it. I personally would treat with the Ravens, quite how and
at what price I can't work out. But Julian is going to need additional pressure
on the DCMS in FS space. The Ravens strike me as the logical source of that.
If the Periphery border of the Combine is set aflame, the DCMS will have to
react. But the DCMS is already stretched thin, and the logistics have taken
a beating from Perceval raids. The trick with Kurita is all about face, their
desire to maintain it. Apply pressure in the right places, they'll scramble
to save face and preserve assets. How to do it though? That's the question.
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The Ravens drive on New Samarkand and at least make the Combine think they’re going to burn it to the ground?
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I enjoyed the book but I must admit I skimmed the bits not related to the Suns in my first read. Still not hugely interested in the fate of the Republic.
I’d be interested to know more about the expansion of the tongue towards NA - especially the story of the elite 6th Crucis Lancers RCT, I’d imagine that battle would’ve been noteworthy. Similarly that of the well regarded Remagen CrMM. Only Skirmishes on their worlds are mentioned so this hopefully indicates neither were lost.
The reconciliation (if there was one) or first meeting between Julian and Erik Sandoval would have been an interesting short story.
One discrepancy I noticed was the planet Verde is mentioned as falling to the Combine in TRO:3150 (under the Sea Fox Battle Armour entry) - doesn’t appear this happened in Shattered Sphere book.
Hopefully with the next book we get to see the refitted Assault Guards RCT along with the New Avalon CrMM & 1st Crucis Lancers RCT get a mention in recovering their homeworld (and other units). This is after the Thumpers, 3rd & 8th Crucis Lancers plus rebuilt 4th & Light Guards chop off the neck of the tongue. This would be a campaign (in detail) worth reading about (along with the destruction of several Wolfs Dragoons and Ryuken units). Sorry dreaming.
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Given the Combine's circuitous line of supply to New Avalon, I expect the planet will eventually be liberated by simple siege. Looks like 5 or 6 jumps through the Dragon's Tongue, where ambushes could happen at any point. And that's before considering that the Combine doesn't control any other system within 1 jump of New Avalon; the final jump of any supply mission to the Kurita forces on New Avalon must go through an uninhabited or hostile system.
If it's not a siege; it'll probably force the evacuation of New Avalon to simply cut the Dragon's Tongue. Salients aren't inherently stable... they're naturally either growing or shrinking.
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For Onion since he skipped some of the book . . .
Unlike some of the other SBs in the past, this book discusses units that are cut off from their supply lines and even though they control the planet it causes a decrease in their combat effectiveness- in some cases so much so that they get rolled when enemy forces land. I really wish they had gotten into more of the Filtvelt Coalition being involved in helping the AFFS, all we read was it was not popular with some of the population, and the Periphery March was barely even mentioned. No word from the Ravens or their taking Drac or FS worlds, but I wonder if McKenna is still Khan . . . I also wonder if Harrison ever discussed Julian being First Prince- and here is something not discussed when FM3145 came out, what if she found out Caleb dishonorably killed his father?
Rorke, there are indications that industry is no longer sacred. The Marians 'sacked' the Brooks Inc factory on Kendall when they raided that planet. The Falcons wrecked Coventry MW when they were losing it, under Malvina's specific orders- at least enough that the Lyrans could not rely on it for support during their campaign to take back the world. I think I am also missing one other case, but not sure. While the two campuses on New Syrtis and Robinson were recovered, their materials were destroyed or taken, students & staff killed or captured, and it will take years for them to recover. Btw, where you also counting the Periphery March's academy?
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Incidentally Colt I did read the whole book after I’d digested the suns affairs. :)
I would have thought the 6th Crucis and Remagen CrMM being in the heart of the suns and near the edge of the invasion would be relatively well supplied - not like the units hung out to dry near Terra that were rolled over a few years later.
I’m with you on the Filtvelt side of things - I was hoping the Thumpers would’ve got a mention or even hearing of Perceval type raids originating out of the Periphery March.
Surely the Ravens wouldn’t have sat quietly for 5 years - but that border hasn’t moved since the FM 3145. I’d like to see them get pushed back to their pre Palmyra borders.
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While a complete absence of info about the Ravens could indicate several things, the most plausible thing is that between 3145-3150 they've got all they can handle going on with pacifying their pre-3145 conquests. And since neither Davion nor Kurita have been poking them, there's just nothing to say of consequence about them.
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Malvina is a particularly special (nut) case with destroying things - she did try to destroy Hesperus too. Ark Royal copped some of her punishment too.
Panoply is mentioned as hitting New Hessen and damaging the factory there.
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Yes TDC that makes sense - in FM 3145 the Ravens are mentioned as struggling with pacifying some worlds - I think it was Delta Galaxy that retreated off world leaving it to the fleet.
Plus maybe the highly rated 2nd Periphery Guards was a good deterrent from further actions.
Another thought I had was with the black out - it was difficult for the “Republic” authors of the shattered sphere to get news from that region - not really plausible given there was enough info coming out of other periphery areas.
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Hmm . . . Raven protos vs Davion guerillas, could be a fun table top game.
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Well, I'm really excited for ilClan. I'd love to see the Dragon's Tongue get lopped off. Completely, and utterly lopped off.
It seems the FedSuns can never just focus on the Combine when they should. Hopefully, with Daoshen-the incest boy obsessed with the Republic, they can focus on reclaiming New Avalon and biting off that tongue.
As for units--I'm wondering if we're going to see the surviving Davion Irregulars form the basis for units destroyed at Palmyra. I'd love to see a reinvigorated Davion Brigade of Guards and Crucis Lancers Corps whether we retake another single planet or not.
Very exciting times for the FedSuns fans.
Cheers all,
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Colt I counted only the academies, that I knew had been occupied etc. I do
agree that Warriors Hall and Robinson, won't likely be in much shape to
train to their former standards....for some time.
As for industry, I can't predict things. I admit there are examples of
damage, but thus far neither Liao or Kurita has totalled a factory.
New Hessen was about damage, rather than destruction after all
I imagine we plan on retaking the place eh.
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The number of mech and battlearmor lines on New Avalon necessitate it's recapture, IMO. I guess the question becomes before or after they deal with the Dragon's Tongue region?
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So...assuming the AFFS eventually moves to retake New Avalon, when and how do you think they'll do it? And what state do you think the planet will be in afterward?
Y's will become a mysterious continent where an young Davion swordsman named Adol will bash into corrupted DCMS troops causing them to lose HP and eventually die, but that's a story for another day.
It will probably take years to restore New Avalon to what it was after the Combine is run off. And hopefully, it will not be a stark Clan motiff, but instead, I hope that New Avalon restores what was lost . . . again.
The number of mech and battlearmor lines on New Avalon necessitate it's recapture, IMO. I guess the question becomes before or after they deal with the Dragon's Tongue region?
Except for New Avalon is not the most important industrial world or worlds in the Suns- I'd give that to General Motors Trinity of Kathil, Salem, and Talcott at this point with the tanks, mechs, battlearmor, and just general vehicles and other equipment. Oddly, the Combine did not take Delavan which means that the shipyards there were not taken or destroy- which is really important. It was not mentioned at all. (Gott im himmel, I hope that doesn't mean that some BT writer takes that as a signal to blow them up. I am tired of industrial sites blowing up for no real reason other than making some inner Michael Bay in a BT writer get a smile on his face.) That also means that along with Goshen that Armstrong is most prestigious academy left until Albion Academy can be restored.
Then again, who knows what is going on at June? They have to have an academy or something plus some additional industry other Michaelson Heavy Industry. God, I hope that the Clans don't take over the Suns since that means we will never find out much more information on the Periphery March other than a trial or two happen there for 42 units of x. Panpour and Crofton can't be the only notes there. And Panpour has to do something amazing at some point, right?
We at least know the three worlds that were given to the Sea Foxes as payment- Alta Vista and Brusett in the Periphery March plus Hean in Draconis March. I am sure that they will have elements that got ignored for years that the Sea Foxes will exploit out the wazoo.
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Panpour is a vital system, but there's still the mystery of what else Challenge Systems does there.
Like so many mysteries in this universe, we might never know. I'd always cheekily imagined a
fleet of something nasty, ready to pop out at our darkest hour. Well we had a pretty dark time,
and we're still here. But still nothing sprang forth, they're probably not doing anything sexier than
research. Which is important, but lacks the glamour of a secret fleet eh.
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I have to say, I was indeed a bit shocked to read that the Dracs put the pope and his college of cardinals to death. Maybe this will spur more people to resist their occupation. (And will result in a kind of papal guard regiment, who knows? Just joking. ;D )
Do you trust the new Dawn Guards and their loyality to Julian and the FedSuns?
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hhmmm i read "new avalon is not so important for the industry of the fed suns"... and im shocked. was there any change to the giant underground factory complex that churned out 100 valks every year? i mean... we are only talking valks. one of the most useless mechs ever for me. but that factory kept running through the jihad. and now its "not so important"? what did they do? retool it completly for the RotS? even if so... its a huge asset that should have been converted back in the years after the wall around prefecture I got up.
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I get the nature of limited warfare in Battletech and the Ares Convention(which is constantly violated) and all that to prevent gross civilian casualties.
I don't understand why the population of NA isnt more resistant to Drac control unless they have specific orders not to be. You would think they would have caches of weapons under every rock and be ready to unleash millions of guerilla attacks. No force in the IS could stand up to that without the use of WMDs. Which I suppose could be the reason they don't resist.
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hhmmm i read "new avalon is not so important for the industry of the fed suns"... and im shocked. was there any change to the giant underground factory complex that churned out 100 valks every year? i mean... we are only talking valks. one of the most useless mechs ever for me. but that factory kept running through the jihad. and now its "not so important"? what did they do? retool it completly for the RotS? even if so... its a huge asset that should have been converted back in the years after the wall around prefecture I got up.
New Avalon is important with the Corean Enterprises facility at Jeratha, Archernar facilities, and Lyncomb-Davion aerospace facilities. In addition, the training of officers to the military which were provided by Albion and NAIS. However, the biggest manufacturer of just about anything in the Suns is General Motors, and they only got to full production in 3145 which is sad. You'd thought Caleb would have told them to increase production or something in his more lucid moments. The GM Triangle of Kathil, Salem, and Talcott plus New Valencia is probably more important than New Avalon even with the loss of Valkyries. Axton didn't fall to the Capellans, so Corsairs and Cutlasses still roll off the assembly lines of Wangkee for the AFFS. Also, there was a satellite facility for NAIS on Axton during the Jihad, so there is a possibility for NAIS to be training officers on Axton and other worlds. Albion not so much.
New Avalon is not a crippling blow to the Suns- it just hurts a lot thanks to the manufacturers, government disruption, and massacre of the New Avalon Catholic Church hierachy. Now if Delavan with Federated Boeing had been lost to the Combine, that would have been a total blow to the AFFS and Suns as a whole considering who knows the status of Kathil Shipworks by 3151 or if Challenger Systems put out a jumpship at all since 3025. Any jumpship at this point is worth more than a million Valkyries since whatever supplies that can be transported from the Periphery March that is not under attack means so much more to the Suns as a whole.
At this point, it is the Periphery March keeping the Suns in the game.
I have to say, I was indeed a bit shocked to read that the Dracs put the pope and his college of cardinals to death. Maybe this will spur more people to resist their occupation. (And will result in a kind of papal guard regiment, who knows? Just joking. ;D )
Do you trust the new Dawn Guards and their loyality to Julian and the FedSuns?
I don't trust the Dawn Guards, and I highly expect them to be part of some double cross by Stone to enact some sort of Stoner scheme.
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For the most part, I don't have a problem with the story line. Already it feels that whatever victory there will be has been earned by Julian Davion and his maiming on New Syrtis. So again, for the most part...
I mean, this is the third time in history that the Federated Suns have been pressed so hard by the Draconis Combine. First during the Second Hidden war and relying on the SLDF to save them; second in the 1st Succession War; and now again in the Dark Age. I get that third time is the charm for the DCMS to get to New Avalon, but come on.
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Honestly my issue with the New Avalon thing, was it's lack of power.
I'd been spoiled by the Jihad, and specifically Isle of the Blessed. So based
on 3145 material I was expecting, Stalingrad. What came instead regrettably
seemed tame, and somewhat brief.
Generally I'm confident and happy, with the direction the FS is heading towards.
We've regained two March Capitals, the CC are pushed back significantly for the
time being. Kurita is overstretched, it's just a matter of what comes next that
both intrigues and worries me.
I will admit a degree of pleasure in seeing Erik, stepping up to his role with wisdom
and style. I hope he holds to it, I'm growing fond of the chap.
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The mystery of Challenge Systems. Will we ever know what has been going on there? and will it help the Fedsuns when it is revealed?
Will Julian use the business card he got from Gavin Marik-Davion? What resources does Gavin bring to the table?
When will the Marik's come to claim their marker with Julian and what will it entill?
Wonder what the cost of Liberating New Avalon will be?
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The upheavals to the interstellar political order resulting from the rise of an ilClan will IMO probably render moot the dynamics between Davion and Kurita, with the fate of New Avalon included.
but presuming an ilClan doesn't conquer both sides or otherwise dictate the outcome of the war in an Operation SMOTHER II:
I'd expect that New Avalon is a quagmire for the DCMS. Its mech factories can't possibly operate at comparable pre-occupation levels... unless for some reason all the subcontract components for Achernar and Corean et al were coincidentally on worlds now in the Dragon's Tongue.
And speaking of the Tongue: that's a terribly vulnerable line of supply. Salients are not inherently stable... if they're not expanding they want to shrink. It'd probably be smart for the DCMS to raze New Avalon and then withdraw to a sustainable position.. but pride would probably get in the way of doing that.
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I'd be shocked if the AFFS haven't spoiled the prizes on New Avalon anyway and given the Sun's buying of Stoners demilitrilzation was there much on New Avalon operational anyway? The Jihad already did plenty damage
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Corean and Achernar were still producing as best I am aware.
The peerless Vulpes is one example of recent production from there, and
Achernar remained the only facility for the Enforcer III. There's also the
Corean lines for the Centurion omni, and there's new vehicle production
mentioned for it too in TRO 3145.
I doubt very much we'd have ceased Stuka production at Lycomb Davion
either.
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So--as far as I know, New Avalon has more than just a few mech lines. We don't know for certain what has been repaired since the Jihad.
Achernar BattleMechs
Locust
Wasp
Osiris
Phoenix Hawk
Enforcer III
Dervish
Argus
Vulpes
Thunderbolt-NAIS
Corean BattleMechs
Fireball
Valkyrie
Centurion Omni
BlackHawk Omni
BattleArmor Lines
Infiltrator Mk II.
Cavalier
Grenadier
Armor Lines
Musketeer
Sortek
AeroSpace Lines
Stuka
Lightning
Hellcat
So is there something I don't know? I'd say of any single planet, New Avalon is pretty much the top producer of hardware, with Crofton a close second. GM on Kathil doesn't produce this much to my recollection, does it?
Best,
Mad
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So--as far as I know, New Avalon has more than just a few mech lines. We don't know for certain what has been repaired since the Jihad.
TPTB have always been tight lipped about how long production lasts. Are mechs from a given TRO still in production X years later? There's really no way to definitively say. But certainly as far as 'mech factory' worlds go.. no matter how you measure it New Avalon is one of the most important ones in the Inner Sphere.
But another thing we have no way of measuring is how much/little a mech factory relies on off-world imports. Presumably, Kurita holding New Avalon but few of the surrounding worlds means that the factories on New Avalon are currently being denied at least some of their necessary subcontractor-made components. Also presumably: these lost imports have to be made up for via imports from the Combine via the Dragon's Tongue.. which is a tenuous trip vulnerable to raiding pretty much the entire route. And every ton of macguffins necessary to keep the New Avalon factories running is one less ton of beans or bullets for the very-surrounded DCMS garrison holding New Avalon.
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Thing is . . . is that Obj Raids FS? Because IMO either the Argus or TBolt NAIS lines likely would have been transitioned to the Vulpes. Did the Osiris replace the Locust line? Enforcer III take over from the Dervish?
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It's a blend of MadCapellans Objective raids (really quite good, IMO), TRO entries, and my memory.
Not 100% sure on Achernar mechs, but fairly sure that at one time, all those mechs were made there. Feel 100% sure about the lines at Corean. Although I don't know if the Jihad destroyed any mechlines at either factory.
But between all those mech lines, the battle armor lines, and the Aerospace lines, New Avalon is at least 'indispensable' as far as planets go. Every month that the Combine is in possession of those lines they can at least add a few mechs to the DCMS and deny them to the FedSuns.
I'm pretty sure most Draconis mechwarriors wouldn't pilot a Valkyrie or an Enforcer, because they are such iconic FedSuns mechs. I wouldn't be surprised if those factories get demolished.
But Centurion Omnis, BlackHawk KUs, and Vulpes mechs? You can bet your bottom dollar those would find welcome homes in the DCMS.
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Vulpes salvage/capture is fluffed as being especially prized by the DCMS.
However it remains to be seen that they can produce so much as a single Vulpes from the New Avalon factory. It requires a clan-spec XXL engine, and the FedSuns TRO3145 writeup doesn't say it's produced domestically as opposed to the more probable possibility of being imported from the Foxes. For Vulpeses to be going into the DCMS, they'll assuredly need Fox cooperation.
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Vulpes salvage/capture is fluffed as being especially prized by the DCMS.
However it remains to be seen that they can produce so much as a single Vulpes from the New Avalon factory. It requires a clan-spec XXL engine, and the FedSuns TRO3145 writeup doesn't say it's produced domestically as opposed to the more probable possibility of being imported from the Foxes. For Vulpeses to be going into the DCMS, they'll assuredly need Fox cooperation.
I didn't think of that--however, wouldn't the Sea Foxes sell to anyone who inquired? Or do you think the Combine is so anti-clan that they wouldn't ask the Sea Foxes?
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I didn't think of that--however, wouldn't the Sea Foxes sell to anyone who inquired? Or do you think the Combine is so anti-clan that they wouldn't ask the Sea Foxes?
Well the Combine has been on good terms with the Foxes in the past (see the allocation of the spoils of the dead Nova Cats) but Aimags in the Combine aren't the same Aimags in the Suns. The Foxes operating in Davion space are particularly chummy with Julian, so probably unlikely they'll collaborate with the DCMS occupation. Combine-based Foxes, OTOH, would surely be happy to sell the necessary engines... but then there's the issue of getting the engines to New Avalon.
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In reply to an earlier query/mention of GM Kathil.
It's mentioned that GM Kathil doesn't make so many mechs now, but is
producing a new Marauder the 9D.
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Kathil is important enough that Erik dropped the Drac front to shore up & deter a Cappie thrust at Kathil- it took the top spot in his attention planning while he was still regent.
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Combine-based Foxes, OTOH, would surely be happy to sell the necessary engines... but then there's the issue of getting the engines to New Avalon.
especially if the two Aimags have demarcation agreements preventing the combine ones from operating in the Fedcom.
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Kathil is important enough that Erik dropped the Drac front to shore up & deter a Cappie thrust at Kathil- it took the top spot in his attention planning while he was still regent.
Kathils GM makes the Marauder and Hollander III, not sure about other mechs. Add in the vehicles lines
and the Invader making Fed Boeing yard, it's one of the most vital worlds left to the FS.
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Yeah, I was not sure totally what was made there since I did not look closely at the FS3145 section . . . is the Destrier or Paladin also made there? I know one is from lost Victoria.
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The Paladin is made on Kirklin (as well as Victoria), by Kallon; while the Destrier is on Salem by GM
In FS: Jihad Objectives the Kathil GM vehicle line is mentioned as having a decent variety of vehicles (including Challenger and Ajax)
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Yeah, but are those still made by 3145 . . . where is the Hanse made after all. Course it would suck to go from making a good Omni-tank like the Ajax for a stinker like the Hanse MBT.
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As a Kurita fan I was hoping the hovertanks built on Johnsondale would be feeding the DCMS. The tanks built there aren't the AFFS's flashiest, but they're surely valuable to have regardless.
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Yeah, but are those still made by 3145 . . . where is the Hanse made after all. Course it would suck to go from making a good Omni-tank like the Ajax for a stinker like the Hanse MBT.
One thing I'm surprised about in dark age generally that more units are not omni considering the "smaller" armies