Question: do you see DropShip types using the rules for the SDS system, in terms of extra mass for their automation, or just using the baseline construction rules, with the normal control components and crew quarters mass accounting for their automation?
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Ditto these - how do you see the automation mass working on these?
So, I go and look through the rules I wrote for Welcome to the Nebula California and find I didn't actually write any for non-Mech AutoMechs. Nor did I mention anything in the fluff. I feel kinda bad about that. But then again, it was my hope to keep Syberia on the scale of a typical pick-up Mech-driven BattleTech game. I do, however, pride myself on trying to make even my fun rules integrate with the universe well enough for folks to consider them canon-compatible.
Buuuuuut, the AutoMechs of Syberia violate the Smart Robotics rules already, I see, in that they use standard cockpits for their AIs, adding no additional mass to get "smarter." Per the rules found in Interstellar Operations, which were supported at least partially in the past by some precedents found in FASA-era specs, robotic units over 10 tons in mass require added robotic controls that can go as high as 13% of their total unit weight for self-operation and skill-grade improvements. Since the Syberian AutoMechs were already paying for transformation (mostly), I must've cut that back. Moreover, I allowed the Syberians to learn and improve, which I'm not sure the canonical robotics rules even allow. And I did all those deviations while claiming this grew out of some pre-Caspar tech....
So, let's try and make sense of how it works on Syberia, and note that these robotics construction rules will likely apply ONLY to the AutoMechs of Syberia for now.
Firstly, let's limit what can be an AutoMech: In this case, I can allow for combat/support vehicles of all motive types, battle armor, BattleMechs, IndustrialMechs, conventional and aerospace fighters, small craft, DropShips, Space Stations, mobile structures, and fixed emplacements. Disallowed unit types are ProtoMechs and any spacecraft with FTL capabilities of any kind. ProtoMech technologies were never even considered at the time the human Syberians died out, and whatever breakthroughs they made with their AI tech, they could not surmount the incompatibility between high-level AI and hyperspace. (They also lost all their JumpShips and any means to repair them or build more.)
All units built as AutoMechs use the weight of a STANDARD cockpit and/or control system for their given 'Mech or vehicle type. This means no alternate Cockpits/Control types such as Small Cockpits, and the like. The following Modifications apply for specific units:
* For battle armor units, the use of a lighter "Inner Sphere" chassis weight for the suit denotes a dependent drone type, which can operate independently only as long as it is within 50km of its command unit; a heavier "Clan" chassis weight denotes a battle armor AutoMech that can operate fully independent of its command unit. (For the sake of argument, all of the "cassette" AutoMechs should be built as Inner Sphere battle armor types.) Drones that exceed their operational range must immediately return to their command unit or shut-down.
* Other AutoMech units designated as drones may reduce their control systems by 25%, rounding the result up to the nearest kilogram for units under 5 tons, or to the nearest half ton for units weighing 5 tons or more. Drone units capable of expending Thrust (e.g. airships, aircraft, aerospace fighters, fixed-wing support vehicles, small craft, and DropShips) can operate as far as 500 km from their designated command units. All other drone unit types are restricted to 50 km range. As with battle armor drones, drones that exceed their operational range must immediately return to their command unit or shut-down.
* For AutoMech unit types that must include crew tonnage in their design--or, more specifically, crew
quarters--use the steerage weight quarters [5 tons per crew] for the unit's minimum crew needs, and add this value to the unit's standard control system weight. Do not count bay personnel in this figure. In fact, there are no "bay personnel" on board AutoMech units of any type, and any recommendations or rules to the effect of making space for same may be ignored. Note that none of these quarters resemble rooms, but are instead internalized mechanisms, secondary data storage and processing, and other necessary operational support needs the unit requires for its operation. (As most combat and support units under 200 tons tend to incorporate operator seating and controls automatically in their control systems, this rule largely applies to small craft, DropShips, Space Stations, Mobile Structures, Emplacements, and Large-sized Support Vehicles.)
* For AutoMech units that require tonnage for life support, ignore such systems; much like BattleMech and Aerospace cockpits, life support is integral to the control systems.
* Whatever other differences AutoMech AI systems have that justify their lighter weight and broader application is left up to debate, but suffice to say that they can't stop themselves from fighting endless wars because the people who knew their master shutdown commands have all perished a good long time ago, and they're only learning because they've been left on in "crisis mode" for centuries by now. They also seem to have different reactions to ECM, so there's that, too.
*The limits on transformation remains as written in WttNC: Only AutoMech 'Mechs can have the transformation ability, with weight and chassis limits as established by their alternate mode type. Anything outside the range of BattleMech/IndustrialMech design (i.e. under 10 tons and over 200) can't transform at all, but CAN have an AutoMech brain, which is more than enough to be dangerous.
Are these individual 'Mech counts? Wow, the factions are smaller than I was expecting, though it makes sense, given the source material, I suppose.
The vast majority are based on individual characters from the first 3 seasons of the Generation 1 Transformers cartoon and the first season of Beast Wars. Beyond them were many characters introduced in the comics and subsequent seasons of both shows that I simply have not bothered with, nor have I delved too deeply into some outliers (Nightbird, Alpha Trion, and "Beta," for instance). But I did include a few characters who are known to have clones. (All Insecticons could clone themselves, the number of Cyclonus and Scourge clones were never determined, nor have the number of Reflector-type soldiers that used to be everywhere, and there were way more "background" Seekers than the ones they eventually named. The generic AutoVees I listed also represent clone-worthy cannon fodder as they reflect the basic "Vehicon" templates that tend to fill out Autobot and Decepticon ranks sometimes, I added two emplacement types just for the hell of it, and the Supreme Guardia reflect what used to be the Quintessons' ultimate enforcers--the Omega Guardians, of which Omega Supreme is said to be the last one left.) So, yeah, it looks like a small amount, but only if you ignore the fact that there are usually TONS of extras behind the main and secondary cast....
No, thank you! That's incredibly helpful, and leaves us plenty of room in this thread to work out stats for these!
Which is partly why I'm presenting it. Like I said elsewhere, there's enough here now to fill a full-sized TRO.
Now I just gotta work out how big Fortress Tiberius would be. I'm figuring a wee bit smaller than the 190,000 ton mass listed in the old Franz Joseph sourcebook.
I'm steering clear of that.
TFU has other factions listed besides Autobot and Decepticon.
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Also Herb didn't list any FloatMechs or SubMechs so there could be more factions out there. That means that the numbers could easily be multiplied. Many factions just "share" similar designs. Others have designs that are unique or do not have designs that others do. This can be for various reasons. They can also be varied to represent different tech levels/resources.
The only naval AutoMech I found in the aforementioned 4 seasons of TF cartoons I worked out here was actually a hovercraft, Seaspray. Although it would have been easy to make him naval, I figured hover gave him more chances to join the battle with his buddies. And as to factions, much like the bots themselves, I limited myself to the ones we saw in those 4 seasons of cartoons.
I was wondering about TFs like Unicron. Would they work as EmplacementMechs? Just call it a Satellite or Space Station and use the FrankenMech jump jet rules so multiple JJs equal 1 thrust point?
Unicron is an abomination, and one of the outliers I specifically excluded in the "4 seasons of toons." IF you were to make him, the closest I could come under the rules I sketched out above would be a gargantuan space station, and he would not be able to transform, as per my rules above.
Cannonshop literally just finished (mostly) a Star Trek into Ngo-Verse crossover story. and those of us in the thread have been working up some rough and ready stats for trek tech.
Cool! (As I've done my own look into BattleTrek, I'm going to withhold any further remarks on the subject. No need to have too many chefs in the same kitchen.)
Star Wars (Forgot about these) A reason to use Star Empire equipment! >:D
Back to the Future - Gonna need that Flux Capacitor. ;D We can use Boondoggles to workout the hover conversions.
G.I. Joe - A reason to use Tank Cannons. >:D
Ghostbusters - Infantry and Vehicle Scale Proton Packs and Slime Blowers for fighting Ghost Infantry, Ghost Mechs and bad moods. :))
Star Trek - Phasers, Disruptors, Photon Torpedos, Shields, Cloaking devices (already covered but allowed for Converting Mechs), Warp Drives (It'd probably be easier to treat Fortress Tiberius as just a weird large aerospace fighter, with the warp nacelles as thrusters. But I'd love to see what BT Warp Drives look like.) >:D
I shall stay FAR away from most of those, too....
That does make me wonder if other "large" AutoMechs could actually be miniature in scale as a disguise. They look like they're miles away but are really much closer. It kind of makes sense considering the size of their Mech Forms when compared with other AutoMechs.
I made a very deliberate choice to avoid "size changers" when it comes to AutoMechs, which is half the reason the AutoMech version of Megatron and Shockwave are not handguns, and the AutoMech versions of Soundwave and Blaster are vehicles rather than boom boxes. (The other half being that they need more damned agency of their own, damn it!) The reason i used any in my list here was to access a broader range of looks than standard 'Mechs alone, and to account for some degree of comparative mass between related Mech and alt modes. Glitterboy's AxiMaLs also spelled out they were made small, and their chassis types run on the lighter side, so using ProtoMech and micro-Mech figures for them helped cover that aesthetic, I hope.
But since pics on the IWM site don't always come with a clear sense of scale, I wouldn't know what any of this will look like until someone actually tries to make some of these happen. Luciora?
- Herb
