Mars Rising: Marian Hegemony IV

[Colt Ward]

I highly doubt it Colt Ward, there might have been some mention in the Locust or Commando two mechs that we know the Hegemony builds and there was nothing, maybe they made another Retcon and we never make it

You might make one, but its not the same sort of thing.  The Cent 9H is a very distinctive unit though I will grant it might not make the RS in a RecGuide b/c afaik Prim tech is not in BMM.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Excuse me what? The Hegemony is still stuck with a single primitive line and the RL Locust when the:

a) Taurians with a shattered industrial base could build XPL Brahmas, the various 3085 Phoenix Mechs and the Angel ECM Cadaver by the Dark Age?
b) Randis with a single planet can build an assault Mech with MMLs?
c) New St. Andrews also with a single planet can mass-produce primitive Arbiters by the bucketload before 3075 for themselves and every other customer? (With this comparison, it is illogical that we can't even permanently replace the lost Legio V.
d) Fronc Reaches which lost Detroit and with a smaller resource base could build standard technology Clints, Hunchbacks, Riflemen, Vedettes and Hetzers?

Aside from the Marauder, Ravager BAs and Testudo, the Dark Age Hegemony's industry is not elaborated upon when tiny powers like the aforementioned ones get detailed descriptions ::)

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Hegemony has long deserved to appear in some mech at least with mention of pilots, but nothing even the non-existent members of the Aurigan coalition or the pirates of the Rim Territories have had a mention, of Randis I think that three mentions apart from his clear mech

The Hegemony nothing at all, except clowning in Shattered Fortress

Truly, the humiliation of veteran Legions being made to serve as designated losers to the neoFWL in Shattered Fortress is disgusting. There are ever more creative excuses for the Hegemony to "fail" to conquer Kendall.

[Colt Ward]

You are forgetting they are still making the Centurion 9Hs (and 9Ar?), Gladius II, and they really should have a refurb shop second to none- they were buying up scrap and putting it back together.

My point is the Commando and Locust were nothing too different.  The Centurion 9H is enough different to get a notable pilot.

Unfortunately Kendall is out of reach . . . MAYBE the Hegemony could have fought a proto-state to a stalemate.  But against the whole League when they have a truce with the Wolves and Regulus is dealt with?  Its the only hot hostile border.

[Metallgewitter]

When it comes to production: doesn't the Hegemony produce the Shilone aerospace fighter? At least that was fromth Masters and Minions sourcebook. Hadrain Armamanets aquirred the specs to produce this fighter because the Hegemony was looking to strengthen it's air forces.

But it's really interesting that the Hegemony hasn't produced it's own Mech design yet. Sure we have Battle armor which also seems to be in high demand on the open market because it's cheap and reliable but nothing else except SW era Mechs. And refits for the Goliath and Marauder 2 (Project Phoenix 3085 / 3067 respectively). Maybe the Marians have gone soft.

[Geont]

It could explain why Marians are such predicament due to retaliation attack from Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey (not whole FWL). To attack Magistracy at the same time as FWL wasn't smart move either. For such a small realm, you don't just start a war on two fronts.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

You are forgetting they are still making the Centurion 9Hs (and 9Ar?), Gladius II, and they really should have a refurb shop second to none- they were buying up scrap and putting it back together.

My point is the Commando and Locust were nothing too different.  The Centurion 9H is enough different to get a notable pilot.

Unfortunately Kendall is out of reach . . . MAYBE the Hegemony could have fought a proto-state to a stalemate.  But against the whole League when they have a truce with the Wolves and Regulus is dealt with?  Its the only hot hostile border.

I am not forgetting them. But those are pre-3085 stuff. There has been very little post-3085 with regards to Mechs.

Kendall is out of reach because of an invisible plot barrier that prevents the Legions from conquering it. It should've been Marian well before 3100.

Maybe the Marians have gone soft.

This. Not the Marians going soft, but they have no chance to shine when Canopus and the neoFWL are the designated winners in that area.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

It could explain why Marians are such predicament due to retaliation attack from Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey (not whole FWL). To attack Magistracy at the same time as FWL wasn't smart move either. For such a small realm, you don't just start a war on two fronts.

They do this because they were written to do this.

[jimdigris]

Excuse me what? The Hegemony is still stuck with a single primitive line and the RL Locust when the:

a) Taurians with a shattered industrial base could build XPL Brahmas, the various 3085 Phoenix Mechs and the Angel ECM Cadaver by the Dark Age?
b) Randis with a single planet can build an assault Mech with MMLs?
c) New St. Andrews also with a single planet can mass-produce primitive Arbiters by the bucketload before 3075 for themselves and every other customer? (With this comparison, it is illogical that we can't even permanently replace the lost Legio V.
d) Fronc Reaches which lost Detroit and with a smaller resource base could build standard technology Clints, Hunchbacks, Riflemen, Vedettes and Hetzers?

Aside from the Marauder, Ravager BAs and Testudo, the Dark Age Hegemony's industry is not elaborated upon when tiny powers like the aforementioned ones get detailed descriptions ::)

The Taurians had a much more developed economy than the Marians had, so even if it was "shattered", it was still better than the Marian economy.  It didn't help that the Blakist commander used WMDs in revenge against the Taurans on the way out, which didn't happen to the Taurians.

[Baldur Mekorig]

The Taurians had a much more developed economy than the Marians had, so even if it was "shattered", it was still better than the Marian economy.  It didn't help that the Blakist commander used WMDs in revenge against the Taurans on the way out, which didn't happen to the Taurians.

That would be truth, if most of that industry keep beign taurian. Some of the heavily industrilized planets like Sterope just drift away from the Concordat, and the succesive military juntas did their best to just wreck the economy. ONly with the last junta guy the economy (and always likend, the industry) was begginig to get well again after long negotiations with the internal economic actors.

As for the Hegemony, it had decades improving their industry and economy. The "pirate kingdom" era is long past. And the Testudo and Gladius II showed that at the least the Marian infraestructure can handle dealing with "advanced" (cofcof) tech, when no just making it, like the "Lithobolos" AIV Launcher.

As i already mentioned, Randis is my faction of choice, and i was really surprised to see so many little references to them in the last products, but its a little strange not to see any to the second (or third) biggest near-periphery nation (Taurian sadly ar in bush league right now, and the RA is a clan faction in my opinion). Heck, even the Aurigan whatever got a couple of notable pilots IIRC.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

The Taurians had a much more developed economy than the Marians had, so even if it was "shattered", it was still better than the Marian economy.  It didn't help that the Blakist commander used WMDs in revenge against the Taurans on the way out, which didn't happen to the Taurians.

If you're comparing WMD treatment, Taurus was pummeled with asteroids. While Alphard got neutron-bombed, the physical infrastructure is still intact and will be available after the cleanup.

Not so for Taurus. Whatever they manage to rebuild within that nuclear winter won't compare to the scale of pre-asteroid Taurus simply because post-Jihad TC no longer has its previous resource base and is a pariah state without substantial outside aid.

[Adacas]

It is something extremely subjective, the Bullfighting Economy and industry was devastated by the jihad and nobody gave it credits to rebuild anything, they rebuilt it by lungs and they have lost an uncountable amount of factories and worlds, and therefore resources, but magically in 3145 they flourish you make like roses

The Hegemony beyond the attack with the neutron bomb against the capital city there was no damage to its infrastructure, even mostly the factories were beyond the affected area, if technicians were lost, but that is formed in a period of time of no more of 10 years and you replace all the lost personnel, and all this without counting the factories built in other systems such as Pompey, Horatius, Addhara, Baccalieu that continued working quietly

The non-technological development of the Hegemony is pure incongruity of the writers, and it comes long, with a book contradicting the one that follows, all the other states modernized their lines of primitives

The Hegemony built Centurions, Gladiator, Icarus II, Emperor and others but when lines had to be modernized it seems that the Hegemony by decision of who knows who continued to build only Centurions and always primitive

[Colt Ward]

Taurians are doing their own re-unification, so it will definitely be returning to their previous level while the Hegemony sits.

The Hegemony suffers from bad geography for several reasons- most importantly they are not at the border between two Inner Sphere realms where they can benefit from tensions.  But there is no one besides the FWL to trade with like the MoC & TC have in their region.  Their nearest periphery power that could have been trading with would have been the CF- and they ceased to exist. 

Several times they have lost chunks of equipment trying to re-establish control over a sector- in fact it has resulted in the death of a few Caesers since the 3050s.  Most the time the League was fractured, Kendall was the base for the Protectors which made it a bit tough to take on.  Even after the Protectors officially moved out, the planetary militia would have been a tough tackle along with the factory security forces.  Heck, IMO Kendall becomes a merc hub for the fractured League which means the on-world defense options are more than what might be expected.

Now they got out with some of the infrastructure so it becomes a question of what they do with it.

Personally, for thematic reasons I hope they manage to start building a Marian Cataphract- we know they can build the LB-10X, ERMLs at this point should not be a stretch . . . and they built ERPPCs on Kendall, along with a pair of heavy mechs- one a 70t machine.  The Cent 9Ar has a HPPC . . . so a HPPC/LB-10X?  The question is would it be the gun port matching design or another '3150' offering.

[Adacas]

As for Kendall, it is already hitting a dead dog, apart from the planetary militia unit with nukes in 3080, in 3090 the II Legion broke the floor with what would be garrisoned on the planet and sacked the planet, there was an opportunity to spare from kidnapping or convincing staff to go to hegemony, steal data, dismantle a line etc etc

I'm not even asking for something as glorious as a version of Catapracht, but rather that we can build an assortment of medium mechs, if a heavy mech from a thousand loves comes along.

As for the tech, the tech 3050 is common and is sold by anyone with a minimum commercial interest, for a long time there was a route and almost bordering on Lira, and I don't see anyone more interested in screwing Marik's existence than The Lyran Alliance , It could have been a good background of commercial relations between Lira and the Hegemony, but the authors did not seem interested in developing that or even deepening the commercial alliance with Taurus

[jimdigris]

The Hegemony had three other things working against it:
1) It's advanced tech factories were built by the WOB.  When the Marians turned against them, there was a great deal of fighting and a lot of that may have been destroyed by the ones who made that happen in the first place.
2) The Hegemony suffers from constant attacks from the pirates of the Circinus ruins.  The amount of damage that it has done to the infrastructure has not been detailed.
3) The economy is heavily slave-based.  Cheap labor like that removes the incentive to innovate technologically.

[Rainbow 6]

I've always been a bit surprised the Hegemony hasn't swept up the individual Circinus Federation worlds, especially given one of them contained a small mech factory that was building phoenix mechs that (AFAIK) survived the jihad.

[Colt Ward]

Distance and a hostile space between

[ArkRoyalRavager]

It is something extremely subjective, the Bullfighting Economy and industry was devastated by the jihad and nobody gave it credits to rebuild anything, they rebuilt it by lungs and they have lost an uncountable amount of factories and worlds, and therefore resources, but magically in 3145 they flourish you make like roses

The Hegemony beyond the attack with the neutron bomb against the capital city there was no damage to its infrastructure, even mostly the factories were beyond the affected area, if technicians were lost, but that is formed in a period of time of no more of 10 years and you replace all the lost personnel, and all this without counting the factories built in other systems such as Pompey, Horatius, Addhara, Baccalieu that continued working quietly

The non-technological development of the Hegemony is pure incongruity of the writers, and it comes long, with a book contradicting the one that follows, all the other states modernized their lines of primitives

The Hegemony built Centurions, Gladiator, Icarus II, Emperor and others but when lines had to be modernized it seems that the Hegemony by decision of who knows who continued to build only Centurions and always primitive

This. Somehow the Taurians have magically grown in spite of their hardships.

Yet the Hegemony does not even get a mention of new Mechs.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Taurians are doing their own re-unification, so it will definitely be returning to their previous level while the Hegemony sits.

Such a return to the previous level would take 20-30 years minimum.

The Hegemony suffers from bad geography for several reasons- most importantly they are not at the border between two Inner Sphere realms where they can benefit from tensions.  But there is no one besides the FWL to trade with like the MoC & TC have in their region.  Their nearest periphery power that could have been trading with would have been the CF- and they ceased to exist. 

They are, as Adacas mentioned, in between the FWL and LC. The LC cultivated a relationship with far-off nuke-happy Regulus that genocided one of their planets just to disrupt the FWL remnants after the Jihad, yet it nowhere was it mentioned the LC did the same with the Hegemony which didn't nuke anything. They could also trade with the Rim Collection or Andurien but these were also not mentioned.

Several times they have lost chunks of equipment trying to re-establish control over a sector- in fact it has resulted in the death of a few Caesers since the 3050s.  Most the time the League was fractured, Kendall was the base for the Protectors which made it a bit tough to take on.  Even after the Protectors officially moved out, the planetary militia would have been a tough tackle along with the factory security forces.  Heck, IMO Kendall becomes a merc hub for the fractured League which means the on-world defense options are more than what might be expected.

Those losses was the reason Julius and Cassius jumpstarted a native Hegemony military industry which should've developed into something at least equalling the Dark Age TC. The Kendall Protectors are a mere unit along with the planetary militia. Whatever they have on hand will not survive the kind of multi-Legion(two or more) assault the Hegemony launched against Lothario and Illyria. Illyria had the Arms of Thor and Cavanaugh's Cavalry yet Julius handled it before even ascending the throne. Kendall? Not a chance against veteran Legios. Merc hubs typically host mercs who fight for money and a single planet won't be able to hire them all at once.

There is this passive acceptance of Hegemony stagnation yet at the same time there is such an advocacy for all the cutting edge Mechs that Clan Wolf and many other factions have received.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

The Hegemony had three other things working against it:
1) It's advanced tech factories were built by the WOB.  When the Marians turned against them, there was a great deal of fighting and a lot of that may have been destroyed by the ones who made that happen in the first place.
2) The Hegemony suffers from constant attacks from the pirates of the Circinus ruins.  The amount of damage that it has done to the infrastructure has not been detailed.
3) The economy is heavily slave-based.  Cheap labor like that removes the incentive to innovate technologically.

1) Those advanced factories were never completed by the WoB after Julius cut ties with them. The Marians spent the Jihad and post-Jihad slowly staffing and activating them.
2) Everyone else in the post-Jihad setting except the Republic and CapCon suffers from constant pirate attacks. Yet you don't see them stagnating technologically.
3) Nope. Both Julius and Cassius valued R&D. Cassius almost bankrupted the nation to start Mech production and spent vast sums hiring Dr Daffyd Rou and finishing the Ravager factory.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

I've always been a bit surprised the Hegemony hasn't swept up the individual Circinus Federation worlds, especially given one of them contained a small mech factory that was building phoenix mechs that (AFAIK) survived the jihad.

Pre-3130, they were hobbled by that Dark Age map created for WK. However, after 3130, the Hegemony should've capitalized on the HPG crash and conquered all the way to Son Hoa and that whole line of unaffiliated ex-FWL systems bordering Tamarind/Rim Commonality as the neoFWL was still many years from forming.

Instead, we have a series of poorly-explained artificial contrivances that make the Hegemony bumbling till Shattered Fortress.

[Elmoth]

I have a wild theory regarding the lack of support from the lyrans. It is thin I know: the Hegemony reminds everybody of the Rim Wolds Republic. Periphery powerhouse based on slavery and investing heavily in expansion in a short time.

This is the reason I actually like them and think they should be bigger by now, but it could also explain the wariness. What I do not understand is why they are not more at war with the FWL in a genocidal kind of conflict.

[jimdigris]

1) Those advanced factories were never completed by the WoB after Julius cut ties with them. The Marians spent the Jihad and post-Jihad slowly staffing and activating them.
2) Everyone else in the post-Jihad setting except the Republic and CapCon suffers from constant pirate attacks. Yet you don't see them stagnating technologically.
3) Nope. Both Julius and Cassius valued R&D. Cassius almost bankrupted the nation to start Mech production and spent vast sums hiring Dr Daffyd Rou and finishing the Ravager factory.

Could you give me sources and page numbers for this information?

[Kit deSummersville]

Pre-3130, they were hobbled by that Dark Age map created for WK. However, after 3130, the Hegemony should've capitalized on the HPG crash and conquered all the way to Son Hoa and that whole line of unaffiliated ex-FWL systems bordering Tamarind/Rim Commonality as the neoFWL was still many years from forming.

Son Hoa? That's a long ways to go for very little.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Could you give me sources and page numbers for this information?

Pg10 TRO3085:Supplemental.

The pirate issue is mentioned in almost any Jihad or post-Jihad book.

[Baldur Mekorig]

Could you give me sources and page numbers for this information?

1) Those advanced factories were never completed by the WoB after Julius cut ties with them. The Marians spent the Jihad and post-Jihad slowly staffing and activating them.

TRO:3085 Supplemental, pag. 10.

When Julius evicted the Word from his nation, he also saw the possibility of a dedicated Marian Hegemony battle armor factory go with them. The partially built lines would lay dormant through the rest of the Jihad, a contrasting reminder of benefits the tiny nation might have enjoyed had they continued their alliance with the Word. It would take an outsider to bring that vision into a Marian reality.

3) Nope. Both Julius and Cassius valued R&D. Cassius almost bankrupted the nation to start Mech production and spent vast sums hiring Dr Daffyd Rou and finishing the Ravager factory.

TRO:3085 Supplemental, pag. 10.

Provided a staff of the best Marian technicians and a budget that threatened to beggar the struggling nation, Dr. Rou was tasked to complete the battle armor facility and build a new suit that would “capture the attention and pocket books of the whole Sphere.”

XTRO: RetroTech pag. 5

Building a Mech production facility is no mean feat, even for a Successor State that has damaged facilities to start with. For the Marian Hegemony, the development of Marian Arms have been one of the greatest challenges that nation has faced. At first only capable of refitting existing chasses, now these Mech facilities have debuted their first complete manufacture, a local variation on the Centurion.

[Baldur Mekorig]

Son Hoa? That's a long ways to go for very little.

Yeah, Son Hoa is more a desire than a actual viable target. You still are a bit far away from the MH bases, and even after they left the LC, Starcoprs have a security/merc force there. Also Starcorps still had strong relations (both political and economical) with the LC, wich made its conquest of the planet WAY less viable. Now Kendall is another thing, in the Jihad and inmediate post-Jihad era.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Son Hoa? That's a long ways to go for very little.

Nonetheless it is a valuable industrial planet.

[Adacas]

Not only the Kendall Factory could have been taken at any time post jihad or dark age, and that is doubly possible with the New St Andrews Factories or the above mentioned Phoenix Factory of the pirates of Circinus, factories continue to appear around the Hegemony very vulnerable but apparently by design of the authors the Hegemony does not see them or are interested in taking them a true and complete madness, or made on purpose to keep the faction weak on purpose.

I take Son Hoa I leave it out of the hegemonic interests because it is precisely the perfect Lyran / Marian / Independent Suppliers trade center.

[Adacas]

I have a wild theory regarding the lack of support from the lyrans. It is thin I know: the Hegemony reminds everybody of the Rim Wolds Republic. Periphery powerhouse based on slavery and investing heavily in expansion in a short time.

This is the reason I actually like them and think they should be bigger by now, but it could also explain the wariness. What I do not understand is why they are not more at war with the FWL in a genocidal kind of conflict.

If the Lyrans put a hypothetical fear because a peripheral nation with whom they have no prior history of warfare, over and above a strategic benefit like having someone make Marik's life very miserable would be a dire perception of both military strategy and absolute commercial blindness, which we fully know that the Lyrans are neither blind nor one-eyed when it comes to doing business