Are NARC Beacons obsolete or do they still have their niche uses?

[Crow]

Does anyone still actively use NARC Beacons in their forces? Did you ever use them to great effect in your games? Tell us your stories!

I've noticed that one of the factors that may hamper the opinion of this weapon system is lack of good (maneuverable and durable) platforms to optimally deploy them.

I really want to make an missile-heavy SLDF force, but so many SL mechs use Artemis anyway, it's kind of a turn-off. And the best (only?) NARC toting units until 3050 where the Kintaro and the Ahab, which aren't the most ideal.

[Empyrus]

Just as with anything electronic, commonplace ECM ruins it. (I regard ECCM a bit too complex to be a good solution.)

I am a Cappie so Narc's are standard since Ravens carry it. But it is extremely situational thanks to ECM proliferation.

Strictly speaking i actually prefer Narc to Artemis IV because it is much more weight efficient (one unit pays few tons vs multiple units paying 1 ton per launcher and losing indirect fire option) and allows indirect fire without spotter.

[Weirdo]

Are you playing Royal SLDF or Regular Army? That can make a big difference as to how much Artemis you see in your mechs. NARC works best as a way to boost lots of mechs with normal missile racks.

Even Artemis units can benefit from NARC, if they have a ton or so to spare in their ammo bins. As Empyrus says, being able to do IDF shots without a spotter is loads of fun.

People look at the NARC and assume that the only proper way to use it is to put it on something superfast and start popping pods from turn one. The Ahab certainly works here. However, that's not the only way to use it. Talk up your NARC, make sure your opponent knows what you can do with it, and what units are carrying it. Once they know enough that they decide they don't want to be NARCed, you can use a NARC unit to affect how they'll move. Once you figure out if he's going to move to avoid NARCs or move to quickly kill those units, you can use that knowledge as a psychological weapon, shaping how they move to your advantage.

[Sartris]

it's available on such a small number that it's really easy to forget about.

I got the most mileage out of NARC in games where I had a mixed-tech force that included a lot of introtech missile boats.

[Alsadius]

Narc seems like one of those techs that's really designed for use by custom factions. If you're building a force from the ground up, then focusing on Narc can be pretty good - one Narc unit per lance is less mass investment than Artemis for any force that's even moderately missile-heavy, and it's still enough to effectively Narc everything. But whether you use Narc, the semi-guided/TAG combination, or solo units(i.e., Artemis/Streak/non-enhanced), you want your force to all be doing the same thing. And given that no canon unit is serious about Narc, that means you don't want to use it outside of customized forces.

(Also, why do Clanners get Narc? It's totally out of place - it's a very IS sort of weapon.)

[Weirdo]

(Also, why do Clanners get Narc? It's totally out of place - it's a very IS sort of weapon.)

Because pirates, bunkers, conventional vehicles, civilians, spheroids, so-called warriors who can't really be because they're from a different Clan as you, and other targets unworthy of honorable combat still exist. The Warrior of today is extremely busy, NARC and similar weapons are for when you're in a hurry and don't have time to rub into their faces just how superior you are. :)

[Sir Chaos]

Eh... NARC, iNARC, Artemis... I don´t really use any of that stuff. Artemis, if I have to, but if I cannot get around using a unit with NARC/iNARC, I stuff the ammo bins with explosive rounds.

[massey]

I basically never use NARC.  When I'm playing someone in person, we usually play 3025.  When I'm playing Megamek with 3050 tech or later, I usually want to go with larger forces that I can't really play on the tabletop.  At that point, I kind of rush through tactical decisions because I'm maneuvering an entire company or more.  I don't always move perfectly, don't always make the best firing decisions, etc, because I'm trying to finish the game in a reasonable time.

But NARC does have its uses.  The best thing about NARC is that it gives Introtech mechs a nice little edge.  It's a cheap upgrade for a lot of second line troops.  You should be able to retrofit the launcher onto a normal mech pretty easily.  Swap out an SRM-6 on a light mech and there you go.  C3 systems would be the same.  Yank a medium laser, stick in a slave unit.  Yank a large laser on another mech, stick in a master.  You don't have to upgrade your whole force, just 3 or 4 mechs linked together become (potentially) much more powerful in the right situation, for not that many C-Bills.

Say you've got a company of 3025 designs, and here's a lance level C3 system, a NARC beacon, and some missiles that use it.  Stick your NARC in something fast and light, like a Javelin.  Its job is to stay mobile and hit the enemy's slow movers.  Stick a slave in something that likes close-range, like a Hunchback.  Two more slaves in missile boats, like Crusaders or Archers.  And put your master in something that sucks anyway, like a Vulcan.  Fight like normal, but have your missile boats positioned to shoot at whatever the Hunchback moves in on.  And he moves to engage something that has already been NARCed.  A move like that will ruin somebody's day.  Big LRMs firing at short range (with no minimums) and getting a +2 on the missile chart?  After a big AC has fired?  That's a lot of benefit for a minimum amount of new tech.  If I was a company commander, I'd be racing to install tech like that.

Background-wise, NARC would be one of the big reasons why militaries were forced to install so many ECM suites.  It's the technological equivalent of a cheap shot.  It's not that hard to counter, but you have to make sure you account for it or some jackass is going to hit you with it.

[garhkal]

Narc seems like one of those techs that's really designed for use by custom factions. If you're building a force from the ground up, then focusing on Narc can be pretty good - one Narc unit per lance is less mass investment than Artemis for any force that's even moderately missile-heavy, and it's still enough to effectively Narc everything. But whether you use Narc, the semi-guided/TAG combination, or solo units(i.e., Artemis/Streak/non-enhanced), you want your force to all be doing the same thing. And given that no canon unit is serious about Narc, that means you don't want to use it outside of customized forces.

Agreed.  Narc just like Artemis is one of those things that can be helpful, but only when used properly (meaning all are on board)..
BUT as Empyrus said, ECM does tend to make both less useful..

[Weirdo]

If you're going missile-heavy anyway, make sure your force has a few tons of ARAD missiles handy to but some fast hurt on ECM units. Then your NARCs and Artemis will work just fine. :)

[TigerShark]

(Also, why do Clanners get Narc? It's totally out of place - it's a very IS sort of weapon.)

It's out of place with peoples' misconceptions of Clan warfare. In anything but a smaller engagement (Trinary-sized or less), they'll disregard zellbrigen. Or if they deem an opponent not worthy of the respect (Steel Viper v Jade Falcon), if it's strategically important for them to break with single combat (Cal Jorgensson v Nicholas Kerensky), or if ordered to do so by their Star Colonel.

Basically, if a Clan warrior can't brag by beating you, they're not going to bother with zellbrigen. So NARC, Artillery, etc. really doesn't seem so far-fetched if you think along those lines. A good example might be a Cluster issuing a Trial for an important factory complex. The factory is more important to the Clan than their personal honor, so the conflict is likely be fought in a very "Spheroid-like" manner after the batchall is concluded. At that point, use all of the NARC you'd like. It would still probably be relegated to a vehicle of some sort (since it's seen as backwater duty to be support personnel), but that doesn't mean a Star wouldn't load up on NARC-equipped missiles and take advantage of it. (example: Battle of Glory Station, Wolf Clan v Kael Pershaw for the Pershaw genetic legacy)

[Sartris]

Eh... NARC, iNARC, Artemis... I don´t really use any of that stuff. Artemis, if I have to, but if I cannot get around using a unit with NARC/iNARC, I stuff the ammo bins with explosive rounds.

haywire pods

[Nightsong]

I love NARCs, especially with the indirect fire rule added in Total Warfare. Teaming a fast narcer with a lance of LRM carriers under heavy cover (walls, heavy woods, cliffs, etc) is punishing as heck, as you can rain 240 LRMs on your target with nigh impunity.

[truetanker]

Every seen A War of the Worlds?

Remember the Martian Tripods that moved amongst the buildings firing away at the tanks?

Just think of the Stalker-5M's doing the same, NARCing everything for their buddies in the back!

TT

[RoundTop]

Remember the opening to mechcommander? Imagine tthe raven hit the timber wolf with a narc. Then swarms of lens coming over the buildings to land on it. That is what narc can do (and tag+semi guided, but not quite the same)

[TigerShark]

The problem still persists that the SLDF has no viable courier for the NARC beacon itself. It SHOULD be on a fast-moving, backstabbing unit like the Cyrano, Condor Heavy Hover Tank, Hermes, etc. Instead, it's on a slow-as-heck, 5/8 platform that's going to get shot up LONG before it tags even a single unit. But that's really the Star League era in a nutshell -- Incomplete.
I'd say it's missing a lot of other units, too. Fast-moving TAG spotters, anything with a Retractable Blade, Booby Trap units (the Hipparch "Hellhorse" is the only one I can think of in canon), etc.

[Weirdo]

Isn't there a Zephyr with a NARC, or an I sleep-deprived?

Here's a question: You're going to play a game, and are resolved or even required by a scenario to bring NARC. Moreover, either due to unit availability or some other condition, you know that your NARC platform will be 6/9 at the fastest, this isn't something you have a choice about.

How do you employ it, when so many folks insist that NARC is useless unless carried by a superfast unit?

[TigerShark]

Isn't there a Zephyr with a NARC, or an I sleep-deprived?

Here's a question: You're going to play a game, and are resolved or even required by a scenario to bring NARC. Moreover, either due to unit availability or some other condition, you know that your NARC platform will be 6/9 at the fastest, this isn't something you have a choice about.

How do you employ it, when so many folks insist that NARC is useless unless carried by a superfast unit?

Yes, there is definitely a Zephyr with NARC. But it's a Royal, so it's unlikely that many trickled down into the Member States.

As far as tactics, I would probably use the Kintaro (the only 'Mech with NARC until 2872) as a skirmisher or line 'Mech, standing a good 10 hexes in front of my LRM units as they advance. He'd have to plink away with the NARC launcher and spread Thunder mines with his LRM-5 (or LRM-15 for the Royal), in concert with the other units. Try to separate a target from the pack with area denial then pick it apart.

If it's urban, he'd probably be an ambush unit, sitting inside of a 60+ CF building, waiting to screw with one or more units. In a forest, you can have him further ahead of the pack. Maybe parked in some heavy woods, spotting for missile units until he connects with a pod. But in open terrain... just running for +3 and backing up for a +2 is about as good as you can do. Just hope the beacon hits "something" worth targeting.

The weapon system really needed to be what iNARC was later: Grant a flat, -1 to-hit bonus and negate the need for a spotter. At that point, it would be VERY scary, turning an entire Lance of Longbows and Archers into 3 gunners in the snap of a finger. As it is now... ::shrug::

[garhkal]

If you're going missile-heavy anyway, make sure your force has a few tons of ARAD missiles handy to but some fast hurt on ECM units. Then your NARCs and Artemis will work just fine. :)

What launchers can fire Arads though?  I forget. :-[

[Nightsong]

How do you employ it, when so many folks insist that NARC is useless unless carried by a superfast unit?

I don't think it's so much useless when not carried by a fast unit so much as wanting to take advantage of them as soon as possible, so wanting to get pods on targets as fast as possible.

[SCC]

If you're going missile-heavy anyway, make sure your force has a few tons of ARAD missiles handy to but some fast hurt on ECM units. Then your NARCs and Artemis will work just fine. :)

While the rules on ARAD and (i)Narc interaction are, shall we say open to debate and the rulings somewhat confusing, I'm pretty sure that ARAD can home in on Narc beacons inside hostile ECM fields, so if you've got an Atlas escorted by a Raven and want to take out the Atlas first, go ahead and put a beacon on it. Things beyond that are rather hazy.

[Weirdo]

Yes, there is definitely a Zephyr with NARC. But it's a Royal, so it's unlikely that many trickled down into the Member States.

That's what those ungrateful provincials get for breaking off from the Terrans. ;)

What launchers can fire Arads though?  I forget. :-[

LRMs. I think SRMs too, but don't hold me to that.

While the rules on ARAD and (i)Narc interaction are, shall we say open to debate and the rulings somewhat confusing, I'm pretty sure that ARAD can home in on Narc beacons inside hostile ECM fields, so if you've got an Atlas escorted by a Raven and want to take out the Atlas first, go ahead and put a beacon on it. Things beyond that are rather hazy.

Since you were confused, logic dictates that you have already asked on the Rules Forum. What did they say?

[garhkal]

LRMs. I think SRMs too, but don't hold me to that.

Copy that...

[Kit deSummersville]

How do you employ it, when so many folks insist that NARC is useless unless carried by a superfast unit?

Send in the assaults, including some with NARCs (such as those Stalkers) with LRM support behind it.
Or send in the heavies with some slightly faster NARC machines mixed in and LRM support following. You want to ignore the Thunderbolt to hit the Kintaro with a higher move mod? Okay, you have to pick your poison.

[Empyrus]

Narc use:
Line advance, with some Narc carriers in the mix. Should the enemy come close, it gets Narced and everyone with LRMs will suddenly have a no-brainer target. Ideally there's a second line with more LRM carriers as well.
The Narc is not spotter weapon per se, rather it is a defensive weapon, as i see it.
IF i happen to get someone behind the enemies and tag them with Narc, OK, i can make use of that. But that is a secondary use, and one that isn't really usable since i can't think of any actually fast Narc carriers (my lovely Ravens aren't fast enough). ('Mech ones, that is.)

Artemis IV suffers from that it removes LRM's ability to use indirect fire, and turns LRMs into direct fire weapons. At that point, i reckon it would be just better to convert the 'Mech into a PPC or AC carrier.
For SRMs, Artemis IV is better because it enhances them without removing anything but once Streaks are around... well, Streaks are a better option overall, and immune to non-Angel ECM as well unlike Artemis.

[Weirdo]

Artemis does not prohibit LRMs from firing indirect, you just don't get the Artemis bonus when doing so.

[Empyrus]

Artemis does not prohibit LRMs from firing indirect, you just don't get the Artemis bonus when doing so.

I keep forgetting that... but i think that's because i think the Artemis really is waste of tonnage if i use indirect fire in a 'Mech with Artemis-enhanced launchers.

With a Narc carrier in my unit, i can just load Narc-missiles as standard and not worry about not wasting tonnage on stuff.

[Charistoph]

Artemis does not prohibit LRMs from firing indirect, you just don't get the Artemis bonus when doing so.

It would probably be better phrased that it removes the desire to fire LRMs indirectly.

[Weirdo]

I don't see how it does. So you don't get a fancy bonus, you can still IDF just as well as any other LRM boat out there. It's not like there's anything that penalizes you for firing indirect.

[Empyrus]

I don't see how it does. So you don't get a fancy bonus, you can still IDF just as well as any other LRM boat out there. It's not like there's anything that penalizes you for firing indirect.

Losing benefit's from ton's worth of equipment. Multiple tons, usually, if firing multiple launchers.
Also figure that Artemis kinda discourages use of alternate munitions more so than Narc beacons do, again because of the Artemis benefit being tied to that module and launcher.
I don't feel bad about using Narc-equipped ammo shots against non-Narced targets, because my 'Mechs didn't pay any extra for the Narc launcher.

I don't know. Maybe i'm just a weird player in that i don't like the Artemis IV.
The Narc i like because it offers that no-spotter option, and my Star League and Capellan forces both have Narc carriers anyway (the Kintaro and Raven). Heck, my FedCom unit might have one too, think i assigned a Raven to them as well.