Author Topic: Thoughts on the War Dog  (Read 6991 times)

Iceweb

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 769
  • Lyran Engineer
Thoughts on the War Dog
« on: 08 April 2018, 18:50:31 »
So playing HQ and got an offer to buy a War Dog fresh off the factory line at 85% of list price. 
I snapped it up since for the most part it is a good machine. 
Hard to argue with a guass and some pulses. 

Still it is one of the weirder designs out there in cannon.   
The armor is thick for the most part maxing out the torso locations with nice sturdy back plates. 
However the mismatched arm armors is interesting and I don't think any other cannon unit is asymmetrical.     
On the back issue they mounted a small pulse in the head facing backwards which is an interesting choice to be sure. 

It doesn't carry case but has explody AMS ammo along with the guass rifle itself. 
Given the original rules for AMS the two tonnes of ammo makes sense but doesn't anymore with the updated rules.     

While on the ammo it also packs 3 tonnes for the gauss. 
That seems a little excessive, but no one has ever complained about being able to snipe from range with a gauss rifle longer due to a deeper bin. 

The other weird thing is the pair of SSRM2 OS that it packs. 
I like the fluff that said they were hidden and shielded to use as a surprise against enemies who couldn't detect the systems. 
Still OS launchers are bad and two of them moves it past non-optimized and fluffy to bad design decision. 

According to MegaMek there are two variants of the War Dog. 
The first in 64 is mostly a weapon swap, with a ER PPC and a heavy gauss backed up by a C3 slave. 
It keeps the engine and armor including the asymmetrical arms. 

Its not a bad machine, but it doesn't play wonderfully in my opinion since the damage on the heavy guass is weak at range if you want to snipe with the C3 system. 
But at the same time the minimum range on the heavy guass makes you not want to close to knife fighting range to give targeting data to your lance, where it would best use the very short ranged medium pulses.   
I guess it is best at medium range getting targeting data from friends using the guass as a AC20 and crit seeking with the er medium lasers. 
Still since the War Dog has the no torso twist quirk and no rear facing weapons it does risk being outmaneuvered by faster mechs. 

It really isn't a model I know how to play. 

The third variant isn't listed on Sarna and is a clantech monster that mounts a C3 slave as a UK design. 
The weapons are the same as the base model upgraded to clan tech except the pair of SSRM2 OS are now the nasty clan grade SSRM6s with two tonnes of ammo. 
A few extra heat sinks are added to handle the heat and since the clans use flechette rounds instead of regular machine gun ammo they can pack the same amount of ammo into only one ammo bin. 

The armor is a little lighter than the base model but since it uses the better clan FF you will hardly notice the difference. 
However the placement of the armor is much more sane, the torsos are not fully plated and the arms are symmetrical.   
The rear torsos are each set to the same amount so that they can just deflect a standard large laser, which also happens to be enough protection if the mech falls badly only on a single rear location. 
Also some how this has been enough to allow the torso to twist.  (Or more likely the designer didn't know how to assign quirks in MegaMek Lab and just left it off.) 
Even so it retains the upgraded small pulse in the head facing backwards. 
This means the the C3 slave is mounted in the center torso instead, right next to the engine. 
How those sensitive electronics handle the ambient heat is a question better not asked along with how the missiles get loaded. 

I always wondered why the base model never got a field variant that replaces the OS launchers with a proper missile system and case. 
I mean that is the first thing I did once I got the thing, with a half tonne left over to add armor. 

I mean it is a weird and fluffy machine.  I would love to know more about what behind the scenes decisions were made when it was put into the TROs.  Probably too much to hope that anyone who was around back then is still here and remembers anything, but it never hurts to ask. 

Anyone who wants to share stories about how they like to use it or mod it would be great. 
What are your thoughts on this strange machine?

pheonixstorm

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5548
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #1 on: 08 April 2018, 21:03:44 »
iirc the UK design is not canon so it would not have the same quirks as the canon designs. That would also be why the armor is allocated in a more sane manor than the canon version.

Kojak

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4610
  • Melancon Lives!
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #2 on: 08 April 2018, 21:44:20 »
The original has not exactly aged well but in its day it was pretty effective if a bit of an odd duck, mostly just by dint of being a heavy with a gauss rifle. What it lacks in effectiveness it more than makes up for with panache, as far as I'm concerned.

The newer model is a beast that will eat other heavies for breakfast and is one of the Lyrans' best C3 'Mechs (which in fairness is a pretty short list).


"Deep down, I suspect the eject handle on the Hunchback IIC was never actually connected to anything. The regs just say it has to be there."
- Klarg1

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25633
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #3 on: 08 April 2018, 21:53:21 »
The War Dog isn't a Lyran mech, it's a mercenary mech.  It got the HGR from the Wolf's Dragoons, who took the tech in retaliation for the Lyran Alliance stealing their Light Engine design.

On the original design, the twin OS SSRMs are pointless: each one takes an extra half-ton, so it could have simply used regular SSRMs with a ton of ammo.  The asymmetrical armor on the arms doesn't really give it anything, either.

Of course, the biggest issue I have with it is the name: with its limb to torso ratio, it should have been called the Spider Monkey.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Iceweb

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 769
  • Lyran Engineer
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #4 on: 08 April 2018, 22:29:39 »
iirc the UK design is not canon so it would not have the same quirks as the canon designs. That would also be why the armor is allocated in a more sane manor than the canon version.

So where did the UK versions come from? 
Why are they known enough to be included in megamek but still not canon?

Quote from: Kojak

The newer model is a beast that will eat other heavies for breakfast and is one of the Lyrans' best C3 'Mechs (which in fairness is a pretty short list).

The problem is there doesn't seem to be a good range to put the new model. 
What tactics work well for it? 
Does it often suffer from not being able to twist?

Quote from: MoneyLovinOgre4Hire
   
On the original design, the twin OS SSRMs are pointless: each one takes an extra half-ton, so it could have simply used regular SSRMs with a ton of ammo.
 

One of them could have been a neat oddity, but doing two of them is just a kick in the teeth. 
I can't be the only person who immediately sent it to the techs and said rip that out and put a real weapon in there. 
But other than two SSRM2s or a SSRM4 and a tonne of ammo what else can you put in there to be effective. 
You can also rip out a tonne of the AMS ammo to get enough room to also add case which it really needs. 

The fact that they never gave a canon field mod to make the OSes not be a total waste pisses me off. 

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9545
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #5 on: 08 April 2018, 22:33:21 »
War Dog has always been a odd machine to me, it almost feels like a frankenmech. At 75 tons, the chassis is competing with other already more popular designs like the Orion and Marauder. 
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28960
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #6 on: 08 April 2018, 22:39:38 »
Honestly, the OS SRMs should be replaced with RLs IMO . . . and the arm difference in the armor is of course to keep the GR protected longer.  I think it screams for a Large VSPL to replace the old Large Pulse.  But even in its original set up, its a 75t 4/6 gauss toter that can sit with your LRM fire support to pop off rounds and still keep the Catapults, Archers and Longbows safe with its array of pulse weapons.

The UK designs come from MFUK IIRC . . . and yeah, I wish I could prune the folders of non-canon mechs from the MM DLs. 
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

(SMD)MadCow

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 834
  • 1st Earl of the Bixby Duchy
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #7 on: 08 April 2018, 22:44:21 »
War Dog has always been a odd machine to me, it almost feels like a frankenmech. At 75 tons, the chassis is competing with other already more popular designs like the Orion and Marauder.

And the Falconer from the same TRO.

Sartris

  • Codex Conditor
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19827
  • Kid in the puddle eating mud of CGL contributors
    • Master Unit List
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #8 on: 08 April 2018, 22:49:47 »
So where did the UK versions come from? 
Why are they known enough to be included in megamek but still not canon?

Mekforce UK from back in the day. They even did a full set of orignial pewter omni minis. MegaMek has all of the non-canon designs from a variety of sources. They still aren't canon.

 


You bought the box set and are ready to expand your bt experience. Now what? | Modern Sourcebook Index | FASA Sourcebook Index | Print on Demand Index
Equipment Reference Cards | DIY Pilot Cards | PaperTech Mech and Vehicle Counters

Quote
Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

JadedFalcon

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 868
  • Wins at Battleteching
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #9 on: 08 April 2018, 22:54:36 »
Always figured the OSSSRM-2s on the Wardog were from some mandate that there be a canon design to use them.

Bosefius

  • Will Moderate for Hugs
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6675
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #10 on: 08 April 2018, 23:00:42 »
So where did the UK versions come from? 
Why are they known enough to be included in megamek but still not canon?

It most likely came from Mechforce UK, a fan organization that published a magazine and even produced miniatures (I have their Kell Hounds Mad Cat and another one I can't remember). Sarna has a good write up on them (http://www.sarna.net/wiki/MechForce_UK). Their mech designs were eventually published as collections of record sheets that made its way over here. I want to say that SSW had a folder of some of the designs you could download.

As a side note, it looks like the Battlecorps Legion originated as a fan run chapter of Mechforce UK, created by Randall Bills.

Hope this helps.
Catalyst Demo Agent #221, Huntington, WV

It's times like this I ask myself "What would Jabba the Hutt do?"

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25633
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #11 on: 08 April 2018, 23:03:32 »
Their mech designs were eventually published as collections of record sheets that made its way over here. I want to say that SSW had a folder of some of the designs you could download.

It did.  Heavy Metal Pro also had one.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Hawk

  • Retired AF
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 798
  • Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #12 on: 08 April 2018, 23:12:23 »
I dropped the OS Streaks, the extra ammo and added CASE, heat sinks, a medium pulse and balanced the armor.
Is the height greater than the distance from yourself?
Accidental Falls From Above are merely improvised clubs wielded by gravity.

USAF, Retired

chaosticket

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 192
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #13 on: 09 April 2018, 00:45:18 »
In the default configuration the War Dog is a close range brawler with only a single long range weapon, a Gauss Rifle. If you are able to play it as such I expect it would be quite effective.

Personally I prefer more long range weapons on higher tonnage and/or slower battlemechs.

Aesthetically its irksome as it looks like a frankenmech combining solid arms, legs, and side torsos from something like a Templar with a pill-shaped middle torso of an Urbanmech or a Hornet.

The lack of  hips is a functional weakness which is further compounded by its weapon setup. It would be possible to simply run around it, so splitting weapons to cover the rear may be a necessary choice..

In terms of design I think I would try something like a Berserker Build. Replace some of the parts to have a larger engine/jump jets/MASC/triple strength myomer. The Gauss Rifle could be replaced could be replaced with a Heavy or more preferably an ER PPC, giving some long range punch while also shaving off some weight to cover the above upgrades.

Now if possible to acquire, Clan Pulse lasers would be a massive improvement pushing it into a medium range combatant.
I have Asperger's Syndrome.

Deadborder

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7881
  • Technical Victory!
    • Elmer Studios Blog
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #14 on: 09 April 2018, 01:19:33 »
I find the 03 variant to be amazingly fun. Just maybe not for the reasons intended.

One time, I had one win the Exploded by his own petard award in a MegaMek game. They failed a PSR from firing the heavy gauss and fell. The falling damage went to a TAC. On the side torso where the HGR was. Boom.
Author of BattleCorps stories Grand Theft Agro and Zero Signal



How to Draw MegaMek Icons the Deadborder Way. Over 9000 so far. Determination or madness?

StoneRhino

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2269
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #15 on: 09 April 2018, 04:17:46 »
The OSs are outdated weapons that added a bit of extra punch in a pinch without worrying about reloads blowing up. Rocket launchers were introduced into the game after those OSs. RLs would likely replace the OSs if the original design was updated.

C3+HGR = useless? The answer is no. Its not as effective because of the drop in damage, but it means that the other side cannot hang back and snipe your HGR unit. It also means that they cannot easily force it to close with them. It basically helps negate the other side's ability to dictate your move. The problem would be your ammo supply.

The original Wardog may have excessive ammo, but in a long game that's not a bad thing. I don't mean a long game in the number of hours played, but the number of turns. Some people can only manage 3 turns in the time it takes for others to hit 12 turns. There have been games where what seems like a decent amount of ammo was burned through and those with energy weapons gain an advantage for free and thats never fun. Depending upon the players those 3 tons would be impossible to use, or give you some sense of assurance that you'll be able to keep firing all night.

nova_dew

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 951
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #16 on: 09 April 2018, 05:46:16 »
correct me if im wrong but when this was built the SSRM2's could load Inferno's so that gave you two inferno 2 shots without the risk of a full or partial tonne of ammo cooking off, for a close range brawler that option to add some heat to your opponent at the right time could mean a lot
A member of Clan Ghost Bears Legal Team

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16580
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #17 on: 09 April 2018, 08:30:34 »
correct me if im wrong but when this was built the SSRM2's could load Inferno's so that gave you two inferno 2 shots without the risk of a full or partial tonne of ammo cooking off, for a close range brawler that option to add some heat to your opponent at the right time could mean a lot

I'm pretty sure you're spot on that the rules worked like that prior to the BattleTech Master Rules (or at least the BMRr) but I don't know the exact timing.

The OSs are outdated weapons that added a bit of extra punch in a pinch without worrying about reloads blowing up. Rocket launchers were introduced into the game after those OSs. RLs would likely replace the OSs if the original design was updated.

And the design was still set when RLs were in vogue.  Primitive rockets were around but not particularly used by anyone in the 3050s.  Modern rockets were introduced by the Marians in the 3060s and became more widespread in the 3070s.

C3+HGR = useless? The answer is no. Its not as effective because of the drop in damage, but it means that the other side cannot hang back and snipe your HGR unit. It also means that they cannot easily force it to close with them. It basically helps negate the other side's ability to dictate your move. The problem would be your ammo supply.

Absolutely agree.  Being able to aim like you're at short with the 20 point medium hit isn't that bad either.  It's still a 20 point hit at 12 hexes out without a range penalty.  If you're planning to snipe at long range, you definitely want to look at other members of the Gauss family, though.

mbear

  • Stood Far Back When The Gravitas Was Handed Out
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4497
    • Tower of Jade
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #18 on: 09 April 2018, 08:57:24 »
Aesthetically its irksome as it looks like a frankenmech combining solid arms, legs, and side torsos from something like a Templar with a pill-shaped middle torso of an Urbanmech or a Hornet.

The lack of  hips is a functional weakness which is further compounded by its weapon setup. It would be possible to simply run around it, so splitting weapons to cover the rear may be a necessary choice..

IIRC the original fluff was that the 'Mech was designed by a mercenary Tech who had interviewed a lot of Clan War veterans. He then built a design to address their notes. To me this means that the original prototype could have been built from parts of other 'Mechs like you describe, and the production models just kept the same look because it was cheaper to produce that way instead of making it look good.

Sorry everyone, I was thinking of the Bandersnatch.

The War Dog isn't a Lyran mech, it's a mercenary mech.  It got the HGR from the Wolf's Dragoons, who took the tech in retaliation for the Lyran Alliance stealing their Light Engine design.

On the original design, the twin OS SSRMs are pointless: each one takes an extra half-ton, so it could have simply used regular SSRMs with a ton of ammo.  The asymmetrical armor on the arms doesn't really give it anything, either.
I've also heard of some refits that use Rocket Launchers in place of the SRMs.

Of course, the biggest issue I have with it is the name: with its limb to torso ratio, it should have been called the Spider Monkey.
Or the Fiddler Crab.
« Last Edit: 10 April 2018, 07:52:37 by mbear »
Be the Loremaster:

Battletech transport rules take a very feline approach to moving troops in a combat zone: If they fits, they ships.

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your BT experience. Now what? (Thanks Sartis!)

massey

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2445
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #19 on: 09 April 2018, 11:44:15 »
If I remember correctly, the War Dog actually had enough tonnage devoted to armor that it didn't need to have unbalanced armor.  It should have had enough points to have full armor on each arm.  That's one of the reasons I never liked it.

Maybe they changed it in later printings, but I remember counting up the armor on the original printing and saying "this thing sucks!"

Edit:  Actually, the original is 8 tons underweight in the first printing.  I think one of the record sheets later fixed that, but it still has enough tonnage to not have mismatched armor.
« Last Edit: 09 April 2018, 11:49:33 by massey »

Kit deSummersville

  • Precentor of Lies
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10397
  • The epicness continues!
    • Insights and Complaints on Twitter
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #20 on: 09 April 2018, 12:25:31 »
Edit:  Actually, the original is 8 tons underweight in the first printing.  I think one of the record sheets later fixed that, but it still has enough tonnage to not have mismatched armor.

Five tons underweight. The XL engine was 14.5 tons instead of 9.5 tons for some unknown reason. Maybe they were kicking around the idea of the Light Fusion back then.
Looking for an official answer? Check the Catalyst Interaction Forums.

Freelancer for hire, not an official CGL or IMR representative.

Everyone else's job is easy, so tell them how to do it, everyone loves that!

Millard Fillmore's favorite BattleTech writer.

massey

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2445
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #21 on: 09 April 2018, 13:32:28 »
Eight.  The original TRO only gave it 2 tons of Gauss ammo.

Rorke

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2243
  • Absolute Shower
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #22 on: 09 April 2018, 15:34:39 »
I always found it a little quirky.

Partially down to the LPL set with the Gauss, a pairing I don't think makes
a lot of sense.  Why not just give it a PPC of some kind? 

Second to that there's the OS SRMs, again another pet peeve. 

Ultimately my problem with it is, that Blackwell also made the Gallowglas
which is immeasurably better.
"you come at the king you best not miss" Omar Little

Iceweb

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 769
  • Lyran Engineer
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #23 on: 09 April 2018, 15:58:04 »
I don't believe I ever said the C3+heavy guass was useless, just difficult to find a range for this machine that plays nice, where you are not at risk of being out maneuvered. 
Now another upgrade that would give the flat damage of the iHGR would make the machine a deadly sniper with the C3. 
Also due to the original issues with the engine weight a light engined version of the mech would be interesting. 
I also don't think I was complaining too much about the ammo.  No one minds the third tonne of guass ammo, and the AMS system had the proper amount of shots for the rules back then. 
It just looks over ammoed in the current meta. 

I never thought of it paring the LPL with a guass, that doesn't make much sense. 
I think of it as using the gauss to close to knife fighting range where it can make the best use of the battery of pulses. 
You have an XL engine for the speed use it to get to knife fighting on something you can crush. 

It is interesting that the original fluff said it was a merc creation as Sarna says it was a Star League design.  When was that fluff retconed?       

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25633
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #24 on: 09 April 2018, 16:10:14 »
It wasn't.  Sarna is incorrect.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

(SMD)MadCow

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 834
  • 1st Earl of the Bixby Duchy
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #25 on: 09 April 2018, 16:19:25 »
It wasn't.  Sarna is incorrect.

TRO 3055 Upgrade has it as a Star League design, lost until found by Snords Irregulars and turned over to Blackwell.

mitchberthelson

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 624
  • Death to Zohan!
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #26 on: 10 April 2018, 02:15:21 »
I'm pretty sure you're spot on that the rules worked like that prior to the BattleTech Master Rules (or at least the BMRr) but I don't know the exact timing.

And the design was still set when RLs were in vogue.  Primitive rockets were around but not particularly used by anyone in the 3050s.  Modern rockets were introduced by the Marians in the 3060s and became more widespread in the 3070s.

Absolutely agree.  Being able to aim like you're at short with the 20 point medium hit isn't that bad either.  It's still a 20 point hit at 12 hexes out without a range penalty.  If you're planning to snipe at long range, you definitely want to look at other members of the Gauss family, though.

The OS thing is correct. I believe that SSRM2's could fire Inferno as of the last Battletech Compendium (right before BMR). In fact, in the meta I was playing in at the time, it was VERY common to remove the necessary weight in other systems just to have one pair of automatic inferno hits.

This was also back when those hits could basically auto-kill a tank, or force infantry to move all while setting a fire in the target hex for smoke cover. They were also great for lighting targets during night fights.

Kit deSummersville

  • Precentor of Lies
  • Freelance Writer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 10397
  • The epicness continues!
    • Insights and Complaints on Twitter
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #27 on: 10 April 2018, 08:36:12 »
Eight.  The original TRO only gave it 2 tons of Gauss ammo.

I forgot about the OS-SRMs, they only had them at 1.5 tons, so it was 4 tons underweight with the 5 extra tons in the engine.

Looking for an official answer? Check the Catalyst Interaction Forums.

Freelancer for hire, not an official CGL or IMR representative.

Everyone else's job is easy, so tell them how to do it, everyone loves that!

Millard Fillmore's favorite BattleTech writer.

pensiveswetness

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1039
  • Delete this account, please?
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #28 on: 10 April 2018, 09:05:16 »
The asymmetrical armor on the arms doesn't really give it anything, either.

think in terms of how "pros" play MWO, when you consider the armor placement. it's still albatross as the design will predictably turn in one direction over the other(based on the map) but its no weirder than anything else...

(SMD)MadCow

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 834
  • 1st Earl of the Bixby Duchy
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #29 on: 10 April 2018, 12:21:55 »
TRO 3055 Upgrade has it as a Star League design, lost until found by Snords Irregulars and turned over to Blackwell.

I got interested and pulled out my original TRO 3055, the fluff is the same but a bit more detailed: the plans and a few chassis were found at Camelot Command in the Dark Nebula.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28960
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #30 on: 10 April 2018, 18:19:11 »
Which offers a chance the the Star League chassis had a different load-out than what was produced to face the Clans . . . like maybe a SFE instead of a XL . . . no Gauss Rifle or OS weapons.  Lol, and even armor on the arms!
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Iceweb

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 769
  • Lyran Engineer
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #31 on: 10 April 2018, 20:20:26 »
Star League chassis had a different load-out  . . . no Gauss Rifle or OS weapons.

I dunno about the OS launchers not being there on the SL model. 
The fluff said they were hidden and shielded so that you couldn't detect them easily so that they would be a total surprise when used. 
Putting aside the idiocy of such a system that would be known that they were there after the first few engagements, to do that kind of hiding sounds like it would need tech on the Star League scale using parts from the Null Signature System most likely. 

I doubt that the 3055 timeline would have the needed understanding of the tech to alter it into a new design.

(SMD)MadCow

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 834
  • 1st Earl of the Bixby Duchy
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #32 on: 10 April 2018, 20:46:18 »
Where are you getting your information from?
The sources I have mention nothing about the SSRMs being hidden.

Iceweb

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 769
  • Lyran Engineer
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #33 on: 11 April 2018, 01:32:30 »
Where are you getting your information from?
The sources I have mention nothing about the SSRMs being hidden.

I'll see if I can turn up my copy of 3055 that I remember it from. 
I don't really know how to tell which version of the TRO it is. 

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25633
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #34 on: 11 April 2018, 02:13:44 »
I just dug my copies of TRO 3055 and 3055 Upgrade out and checked.  It doesn't say anything about the SSRMs being hidden in either of them.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #35 on: 11 April 2018, 13:54:32 »
Aesthetically its irksome as it looks like a frankenmech combining solid arms, legs, and side torsos from something like a Templar with a pill-shaped middle torso of an Urbanmech or a Hornet.

The lack of  hips is a functional weakness which is further compounded by its weapon setup. It would be possible to simply run around it, so splitting weapons to cover the rear may be a necessary choice..
It's still not as WTF? as some of the stuff in TRO 3055.

The OSs are outdated weapons that added a bit of extra punch in a pinch without worrying about reloads blowing up. Rocket launchers were introduced into the game after those OSs. RLs would likely replace the OSs if the original design was updated.

An OS SRM 2 or LRM 5 almost makes sense. Once you go to bigger launchers, it seems like a better deal to stick with the smaller launcher and some ammo.  The exception would be cases like the Dire Wolves Phelan and Natasha used in the Trials of Position. They both had a one shot SRM 6 because there weren't enough crits to put an ammo bin.
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

Iceweb

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 769
  • Lyran Engineer
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #36 on: 11 April 2018, 15:39:57 »
Where are you getting your information from?
The sources I have mention nothing about the SSRMs being hidden.

I dug up my 3055 and you guys are right. 
It does say heavily shielded but it is talking about the gauss rifle and the missmactched arms. 

I dunno what fever dream got me thinking the SRMs were hidden. 
Maybe some Fannon someone told me and I got confused. 

Thanks for setting me strait 

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28960
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #37 on: 11 April 2018, 20:48:36 »
I think its in one of the novels, Dying Time or the other one where the GDL is on Hesperus.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25633
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #38 on: 11 April 2018, 21:05:16 »
Operation Excalibur?  That novel didn't have any War Dogs, though it did mention the Defiance had hidden fold-out guns.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

grimlock1

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2087
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #39 on: 12 April 2018, 06:57:16 »
I dug up my 3055 and you guys are right. 
It does say heavily shielded but it is talking about the gauss rifle and the missmactched arms. 

I dunno what fever dream got me thinking the SRMs were hidden. 
Maybe some Fannon someone told me and I got confused. 

Thanks for setting me strait
MR-V2 Cerberus from 3055 has "a quartet of Blankenburg medium pulse lasers lurks behind well-concealed fire doors on the ’Mech’s upper torso."
I'm rarely right... Except when I am.  ---  Idle question.  What is the BV2 of dread?
Apollo's Law- if it needs Clan tech to make it useable, It doesn't deserve those resources in the first place.
Sure it isn't the most practical 'mech ever designed, but it's a hundred ton axe-murderer. If loving that is wrong I don't wanna be right.

lucho

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 782
  • say hello to my new friend!
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #40 on: 12 April 2018, 19:38:58 »
Wow, I was thinking about trying a MotW for the War Dog this weekend. I get online, and lo and behold there's a thread about the War Dog  :o

Overall,it's not a bad design. But it's somewhat hampered by some WTF design choices, to say nothing of the errors in the original stats.

An idea for a modern upgrade: Using the original 3055 entry as a starting point, the erroneous engine weight matches a light engine. Go with that to improve survivability  ^-^
If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

RoundTop

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1372
  • In Takashi We Trust
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #41 on: 13 April 2018, 00:37:48 »
And replace the os ssrm2s with 2 rl15s, each. Nobody like a potential 60 missiles in their face.
No-Dachi has a counter-argument. Nothing further? Ok.
Demo team agent #772

mbear

  • Stood Far Back When The Gravitas Was Handed Out
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4497
    • Tower of Jade
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #42 on: 13 April 2018, 08:00:53 »
Wow, I was thinking about trying a MotW for the War Dog this weekend. I get online, and lo and behold there's a thread about the War Dog  :o

Overall,it's not a bad design. But it's somewhat hampered by some WTF design choices, to say nothing of the errors in the original stats.

An idea for a modern upgrade: Using the original 3055 entry as a starting point, the erroneous engine weight matches a light engine. Go with that to improve survivability  ^-^

You can still write the MotW article. In fact, this thread has piqued my interest in the 'Mech, so please do write the MotW article.
Be the Loremaster:

Battletech transport rules take a very feline approach to moving troops in a combat zone: If they fits, they ships.

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your BT experience. Now what? (Thanks Sartis!)

Iceweb

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 769
  • Lyran Engineer
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #43 on: 13 April 2018, 12:57:14 »
And replace the os ssrm2s with 2 rl15s, each. Nobody like a potential 60 missiles in their face.

I'm not sure that the mech has 4 crit spaces after ripping out the streaks, though. 
I do know there is room for a single streak 4 and a ton of ammo since that is the mod I made + armor.

RoundTop

  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1372
  • In Takashi We Trust
Re: Thoughts on the War Dog
« Reply #44 on: 13 April 2018, 13:35:30 »
I'm not sure that the mech has 4 crit spaces after ripping out the streaks, though. 
I do know there is room for a single streak 4 and a ton of ammo since that is the mod I made + armor.

on the 2FC it has: 3 crits free RT, 1 crit free LT,  and then the 2 SSRM2OS taking 1 crit each in the legs.

So no, unless you move FF crits around (which it could), you could move the 2 FF crots in the legs to the RT, and mount a RL15 in each leg, then an RL10 in each torso. It would leave 1T unassigned though. which conveniently would give you proper protection on that left arm. :)

So yeah, better to use 2 streak 2s and 1t of ammo in the torso.
No-Dachi has a counter-argument. Nothing further? Ok.
Demo team agent #772