Author Topic: Wolverines? Where are they now?  (Read 22428 times)

glitterboy2098

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #30 on: 15 August 2017, 13:25:08 »
Primus Sim's. She created the Explorer Corp that would eventually come in contact with the Clans decades later. The visions included a "metallic viper", the "emerald birds of death", the demon horses and a "six-legged bear".
how much involvement did the various 'invading clans' from her vision have relative to the politics at the time of the wolverine annihilation? if the half dozen clans she saw in her vision match up to the ones that were ascendant at the time, it might be evidence for the vision being a fraud to cover up hidden knowledge.

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #31 on: 15 August 2017, 13:41:00 »
It also could have been the case that Primus Sims got "visions" of 19 "beasts"  (maybe 18 - "And a golden disk with a core of blood!!!" doesn't really fit) but people cherry picked the ones that matched the invading Clans when they first arrived, not quoting her account in full.
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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #32 on: 15 August 2017, 19:01:37 »
What do you call the SLS Zughoffer Weir, then?  How did it end up in the WoB fleet during the Jihad?  In terms of genetics, we've seen Clan renegades take extremes to cover their genetic tracks (the Jaguars in Surrender Your Dreams using flamers to scour battlefields clean of the remains of their fallen, for example).  Also, if the Cabal Wolverines were relocated to a hidden community on one of The Five, there'd be no opportunities for genetic mixing with the general ComStar populace.

Thats the thing, I don't see the Wolverines going quietly to a Hidden World. There not that passive and they would want to go out into the Inner Sphere at some point. There genetics would be out there eventually. And the only example they ever found was a distaff family member of Hallis. As for the Zughoffer Weir I honestly believe the WoB found it or maybe the Explorer Corp did and the WoB just got to a abandoned ship first. Comstar and WoB never fielded any mechs or even tech they developed like the Enhanced ER PPC. And not even mechs that the SLDF had left behind or even designed before they left like the Wolverine II. No I just don't see the Wolverine/Comstar/WoB connection. I still have issues that no one, not one person in Comstar after the split even knew of the Hidden Worlds. Seriously, no one told Focht that they controlled five worlds hidden away with tons of gear on them? But they told him of Ross and Luyten?
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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #33 on: 15 August 2017, 20:51:28 »
The Word used the Wolverine II during the Jihad.

The thing you need to remember is that the Wolverines were not a modern clan as such. The bulk of its Warriors were first or second generation Star League in exile, still in the process of transitioning to what we now call Clan society. Culturally, they're not as "clan" as you might think. From a genetic point of view, it's a matter of numbers; you're talking about hiding a few hundred people within an Inner Sphere population of billions. Needles in a haystack.

Finally, the Hidden Worlds (and what eventually became the Master, the Manei Domeni and so on) were a conspiracy within Conmstar. Circles within circles and all that. Its information that was controlled and only accessible to people that they wanted to know about it. Focht (and Mori) were not people on that list.
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Maelwys

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #34 on: 15 August 2017, 21:49:10 »
The Word used the Wolverine II during the Jihad.

Sure, so did the DC, FS, FWL, the Home World Clans and the Society.

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #35 on: 15 August 2017, 22:38:38 »
Sure, so did the DC, FS, FWL, the Home World Clans and the Society.

I was just commenting on the post above regarding Word not using the Wolverine II when, in fact, they did.

Most if not all of the 'Mechs used by the Wolverines were standard SLDF designs. The Word also made heavy use of such designs. The Stag, Mercury II and Pulveriser were in the minority of the designs they fielded. Their not appearing (at least, not veritably such) doesn't disprove the connection.
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Maelwys

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #36 on: 15 August 2017, 22:58:12 »
Ah sorry, didn't see a quote, and so didn't investigate further.

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #37 on: 16 August 2017, 00:09:35 »
Ah sorry, didn't see a quote, and so didn't investigate further.

All cool.
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Øystein

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #38 on: 16 August 2017, 15:17:54 »
Boy, the milage we got out of making Weirdo into a warship :D

Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #39 on: 16 August 2017, 18:05:58 »
Boy, the milage we got out of making Weirdo into a warship :D

Wait what?

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #40 on: 16 August 2017, 20:17:48 »
The Word used the Wolverine II during the Jihad.

The thing you need to remember is that the Wolverines were not a modern clan as such. The bulk of its Warriors were first or second generation Star League in exile, still in the process of transitioning to what we now call Clan society. Culturally, they're not as "clan" as you might think. From a genetic point of view, it's a matter of numbers; you're talking about hiding a few hundred people within an Inner Sphere population of billions. Needles in a haystack.

Finally, the Hidden Worlds (and what eventually became the Master, the Manei Domeni and so on) were a conspiracy within Conmstar. Circles within circles and all that. Its information that was controlled and only accessible to people that they wanted to know about it. Focht (and Mori) were not people on that list.


Touching on that the Wolverines were not the modern Clan construct, would it be wise to say if they are still around that they would still employ SLDF tactics and formations? Also follow monogamous relationships, nuclear families as well as genetic procreation? An integration of both Clan and IS civilizations?

I'm in the process of creating a unit derived of Wolverine warriors itch some back story. The story of the unit involves two Davion Mechwarriors that were saved by this unit and integrated in due to events just after the Civil War. A work in progress so to speak. I'm no writer but I thought I'd take a crack at it.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #41 on: 16 August 2017, 23:47:49 »
Wait what?

The Zughoff Wier was an homage to Weirdo.
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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #42 on: 17 August 2017, 00:48:02 »
The Zughoffer Weir was an homage to Weirdo.
FTFY, you forgot the 'er' and fixed the transposed vowels
« Last Edit: 17 August 2017, 00:50:21 by Sharpnel »
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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #43 on: 17 August 2017, 01:31:21 »
Okay.... interesting: these are stories we like to hear more of .

Anyways on the subject it also begs the question "what happened to the rest of the Wolverines Warships?"

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #44 on: 17 August 2017, 02:26:03 »
FTFY, you forgot the 'er' and fixed the transposed vowels

Hell, I usually just call it the Zug and leave it at that.  :D
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Talen5000

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #45 on: 17 August 2017, 02:49:41 »
What do you call the SLS Zughoffer Weir, then?  How did it end up in the WoB fleet during the Jihad?  In terms of genetics, we've seen Clan renegades take extremes to cover their genetic tracks (the Jaguars in Surrender Your Dreams using flamers to scour battlefields clean of the remains of their fallen, for example).  Also, if the Cabal Wolverines were relocated to a hidden community on one of The Five, there'd be no opportunities for genetic mixing with the general ComStar populace.

What proof is there the ZW went on the Exodus? What proof is there the Blakes Sword is the ZW?
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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #46 on: 17 August 2017, 03:46:09 »

Touching on that the Wolverines were not the modern Clan construct, would it be wise to say if they are still around that they would still employ SLDF tactics and formations? Also follow monogamous relationships, nuclear families as well as genetic procreation? An integration of both Clan and IS civilizations?

I'm in the process of creating a unit derived of Wolverine warriors itch some back story. The story of the unit involves two Davion Mechwarriors that were saved by this unit and integrated in due to events just after the Civil War. A work in progress so to speak. I'm no writer but I thought I'd take a crack at it.

I think Wolverine society would be a mix of the two. Reports of the Minnesota Tribe said they used SLDF tactics and colors.

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #47 on: 17 August 2017, 05:35:55 »
What proof is there the ZW went on the Exodus? What proof is there the Blakes Sword is the ZW?

It's named in Betrayal of Ideals.  A report in a Hot Spots book identifies the Blakes Sword as being the former Zughoffer Weir.
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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #48 on: 17 August 2017, 11:51:17 »
The ZW is first named on a illustration which lists a bunch of warships with went on the Exodus - I forget which book, one of the first FanPro ones. FM: Updates perhaps?  The artists wanted a list of classes and ship names so we provided him with it :) Several writers have ships named after them (including me).

When Blaine wanted a warship name for Betrayal of Ideals I couldn't resist giving him the ZW.

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #49 on: 17 August 2017, 15:39:13 »
The ZW is first named on a illustration which lists a bunch of warships with went on the Exodus - I forget which book, one of the first FanPro ones. FM: Updates perhaps?  The artists wanted a list of classes and ship names so we provided him with it :) Several writers have ships named after them (including me).

Its in FM:Updates p9.

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #50 on: 17 August 2017, 22:51:33 »
 :-X
It's named in Betrayal of Ideals.  A report in a Hot Spots book identifies the Blakes Sword as being the former Zughoffer Weir.

I suppose one could argue that as the information that tells us that the Blake's Sword is in the "Through the Looking Glass" section of Jihad Secrets, that the link might just be a red herring and not necessarily true, unless its been published elsewhere.

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #51 on: 17 August 2017, 23:48:27 »
Just a throw away theory....but what if ComStar did stumble upon the remnants of the Wolverines and they did offer them sanctuary on the Hidden Five? But! And here's the theory: what if that is all that happened? The remains of Wolverine simply adapted back into civilian life on those forgotten worlds and faded into the past? They didn't become a super secret sect at the heart of ComStar. They didn't plot revenge on their former Clansmen. They were simply tired of war and faded into civilian life. As far as we know (or at least to the best of my recollection), the MD came from Jardine. So it can be safe to assume that they weren't settled there. They gave ComStar some information about the Clans, but not how to find them. (Even after all that happened, would they really want to see the Inner Sphere bringing war to the Clans?)

So basically, they met up with ComStar and made a deal to trade information in exchange for being given somewhere that they could settle and live in peace. (And how many survivors would they be of the group that supposedly met with ComStar? Several hundred thousand? A couple million? On the scale of the Inner Sphere, that's minuscule and if their world was kept strictly quarantined, it wouldn't be that hard at all to keep them a secret.)

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #52 on: 18 August 2017, 00:09:49 »
Just a throw away theory....but what if ComStar did stumble upon the remnants of the Wolverines and they did offer them sanctuary on the Hidden Five? But! And here's the theory: what if that is all that happened? The remains of Wolverine simply adapted back into civilian life on those forgotten worlds and faded into the past? They didn't become a super secret sect at the heart of ComStar. They didn't plot revenge on their former Clansmen. They were simply tired of war and faded into civilian life. As far as we know (or at least to the best of my recollection), the MD came from Jardine. So it can be safe to assume that they weren't settled there. They gave ComStar some information about the Clans, but not how to find them. (Even after all that happened, would they really want to see the Inner Sphere bringing war to the Clans?)

So basically, they met up with ComStar and made a deal to trade information in exchange for being given somewhere that they could settle and live in peace. (And how many survivors would they be of the group that supposedly met with ComStar? Several hundred thousand? A couple million? On the scale of the Inner Sphere, that's minuscule and if their world was kept strictly quarantined, it wouldn't be that hard at all to keep them a secret.)

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #53 on: 19 August 2017, 16:07:57 »
I think its more likely the Wolverines would have blown any Comstar jumps up rather than talk to them.
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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #54 on: 19 August 2017, 17:43:23 »
I think its more likely the Wolverines would have blown any Comstar jumps up rather than talk to them.

Why?

The Wolverines were fugitives fleeing a genocide. They had nowhere to go, no known safe haven or fallback point. If Comstar - the first generation decendants of a Star League agency at that - offered them refuge, they would be stupid not to accept it. And even more stupid to be aggressively hostile in reply.
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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #55 on: 20 August 2017, 07:41:11 »
Another question should be, culd they hae been still capable to escape from Comstar after the contact was made?

While they might have thought that Comstar was still a Star League remnant, after contact they should have understood what (creepy) transformation Comstar had done into. IMHO hardly values the ex Wolverines would stand for.
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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #56 on: 20 August 2017, 07:47:54 »
Another question should be, culd they hae been still capable to escape from Comstar after the contact was made?

While they might have thought that Comstar was still a Star League remnant, after contact they should have understood what (creepy) transformation Comstar had done into. IMHO hardly values the ex Wolverines would stand for.

Comstar was still undergoing transformation at that point; it was early into Toyama's reign. The real creepiness wouldn't start until Karpov's time, which was after the Minnesota Tribe.
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Talen5000

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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #57 on: 20 August 2017, 10:16:35 »
It's named in Betrayal of Ideals.  A report in a Hot Spots book identifies the Blakes Sword as being the former Zughoffer Weir.

A book itself which may simply be a copy of in universe Society propaganda rather than in universe history.
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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #58 on: 20 August 2017, 12:34:23 »
A book itself which may simply be a copy of in universe Society propaganda rather than in universe history.

There's a passage at the end of the book where the author pretty bluntly says that it's the actual in universe history. 
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Re: Wolverines? Where are they now?
« Reply #59 on: 20 August 2017, 12:50:16 »
There's a passage at the end of the book where the author pretty bluntly says that it's the actual in universe history.

But there are some fans who will never accept that.
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