ErsatzKampfgruppe Hagen, Detachment Bravo (Updated!)

[snakespinner]

And here I thought a private suite at the Hilton was doing it tough. ::) ;)

[Daryk]

EAGLE 7:
Cool... I stored food separately, so the two containers you put toward "perishables" are just one more water and air recycling for me.  The way I stacked them was four living quarters with a half TEU air recycler on top, then two heads and two water recycling units with air recycling on top.  In practice (aboard a Manatee), I ended up with 8 living quarters stacks to 3 "water" stacks (24 toilets, 12 sinks and 6 showers for up to 256 people; I put an extra half unit of air recycling on top of a pure cargo stack to round that out to 6 TEU of that).

[EAGLE 7]

Daryk,

Are you container units airtight if the ship depressurized?
I picture each platoon 9pack as a sealed unit with tunnel connections to each adjacent pack Platoon stack or an airlock unit.
     While not ment for space use , it offers a little protection to the infantry/support troops using the "Hotel California" container's vs. A cargo breach killing everyone.
     Normal power would be for use of Dropship power, but each paired perishables unit uses a fuel cell to provide 24 hours minimum air recycling.
      JUNE 3005: Mule Dropship "Rosemary's Baby"

   "In my mind I see the infantry squad floating around the cargo bay in zero G to escape Hotel California "
After the second episode of AWOL infantry in our ship the Capt had us Poly link fencing cages around the Airlocks to keep us from having to recover dutchmen infantry in our cargo bay, after two infantry men refused to go back to their container units. The two infantrymen had to be stunned repeatedly after injuring 4 ships crew.
   Now I understand why the infantry are not allowed weapons, they are ready to mutiny. We have had several deaths even without weapons.
   A long term NCO killed his bunk mate with bootlaces for snoring 2 months into the trip. We have to post 3 crewmembers at the poly fence gate with stunners, and shot guns.
    I overheard the Captain mention aligning the cargo bay door towards the enemy and just opening the bay door to limit the danger to the crew.  The Captain said it as a joke, I think but none laughed on the bridge.

   

[glitterboy2098]

i was going to comment about the accommodations issue.. then it hit me that i have 6 squads of troop space on the IFV's, but 8 squads of troops assigned to them.

oops.

i think i'm just going to fudge that and assume the physical space is just big enough for 10 guys (instead of just 7) and the IFV's usually run slightly overmass from the extra 2-3 troops per vehicle (which would certainly be an incentive for the infantry to find alternative transport, especially after being issued bulkier body armor)

as far as accommodations go, i'd prefer that they have at least some effort towards housing the troops in something other than sleeping bags and hammocks, but still something thrown together quick for a barracks. i'm still working on it.

[Daryk]

Accommodations should be sized for 10 per squad, as that's the Taurian standard (and in the rules that way; plus, of you look at the current weight per trooper, 10 foot troops do fit into a ton).  Only having 7 means just a little more room for everyone.

EAGLE 7:
No, I use unpressurized containers, as I'm using the base tonnage for bay quarters (which would rely on the ship for air tight integrity).  I could see going your way by adding environmental sealing for another 10% of the weight or so.  The trick is that would mean airlocks either by container, or linking them internally to one container with an air lock.

Your GM has a sadistic streak if he's inflicting that many mutinous acts on you.  You're not pirates are you?  That's about the only situation where I could see discipline breaking down that much.

[glitterboy2098]

well i was hoping for the feel of the libertyship like "transport ship ##" from Cannonshop's Never Coming Home, which the entire ErsatzKampfgruppe concept is derived from, only with more compatibility with the standard BT setting* (rather than Cannonshop's heavily 'houseruled' version.) so i might use the 'bays only' approach rather than the "nothing" of the story. that's why i'm going with a modified cargo dropper rather than a fully scratch built.

*in short, as mentioned in the OP: Kowloon is much less munchy though still way more organized than the typical lyran frontier world, and i moved the improvised battlegroup idea to the dark age as a response to the chaos hitting the lyran commonwealth due to the mix of blackout, economic crunch, wolf empire assaults, and the falcon invasion, rather than setting it in the Jihad (as the official jihad was less brutal than cannoshop's version.. slightly.)

[Daryk]

Bay quality quarters would absolutely qualify as "Liberty Ship" transport in my book.  Anything better would be actual Steerage quality at a minimum.  "Camping in the cargo hold" per StratOps is the next step down.

[Cannonshop]

well i was hoping for the feel of the libertyship like "transport ship ##" from Cannonshop's Never Coming Home, which the entire ErsatzKampfgruppe concept is derived from, only with more compatibility with the standard BT setting* (rather than Cannonshop's heavily 'houseruled' version.) so i might use the 'bays only' approach rather than the "nothing" of the story. that's why i'm going with a modified cargo dropper rather than a fully scratch built.

*in short, as mentioned in the OP: Kowloon is much less munchy though still way more organized than the typical lyran frontier world, and i moved the improvised battlegroup idea to the dark age as a response to the chaos hitting the lyran commonwealth due to the mix of blackout, economic crunch, wolf empire assaults, and the falcon invasion, rather than setting it in the Jihad (as the official jihad was less brutal than cannoshop's version.. slightly.)

in general, Bay accomodations will work, after all, we don't have rules for disposable dropships.

[glitterboy2098]

updated the lists.. they now use a pair of 500pv forces, so each of them are suited as "grab and go" forces (well, the Yeomanry is. the Loonies might have opponent emotional balance issues in a pick-up game)

the Yeomanry had to shed a hundred points, so most of their skill levels took a hit and i had to downgrade their mechs some. plus swapped out a victor and banshee for a Bushwacker and Thug. not sure if that is a good swap overall but it did save some points. i also had to downgrade the Fenrir armor to a cheaper weapons loadout. the skill level thing i guess you can chalk up to them being old soldiers and somewhat out of practice in real mech combat, rather than simulated lasertag stuff.

the Loonie's on the otherhand.. oh boy. with another hundred points to work with their tankers got better skills, and their infantry brought up to a level of skill that fits the stories. (for all that is actually worth in AS.  xp )
big change? the Warrior VTOL's got switched to -7A models.. mostly to better fit the models i have for them. (plus the extra long range damage is nice)
they also gained a second artillery battery ( >:D) and a trio of Ferret VTOL's to use as additional spotters.

i think this version definitely fits the Kowloon mindset a little better.

i also tweaked the fluff of the Rùa Tank Destroyer.. leaving it as a full Kowloon invention rather than a modified vedette. partly because i would a better source of Minis (the Brigade Models Neo-Soviet Vombat Tank-APC.)


and i've added a dropship.. the Trojan (expeditionary). which is a prime example of how BT cargo bays might well be made of hammerspace..

taking name suggestions for both the Union assigned to the Yeomanry (which does not have to fit their motif) and for the modified Trojan (which would probably be in Kowloon style Vietnamese)

[Daryk]

And the Artillery and Spotters have better gunnery!  >:D

[Cannonshop]

updated the lists.. they now use a pair of 500pv forces, so each of them are suited as "grab and go" forces (well, the Yeomanry is. the Loonies might have opponent emotional balance issues in a pick-up game)

the Yeomanry had to shed a hundred points, so most of their skill levels took a hit and i had to downgrade their mechs some. plus swapped out a victor and banshee for a Bushwacker and Thug. not sure if that is a good swap overall but it did save some points. i also had to downgrade the Fenrir armor to a cheaper weapons loadout. the skill level thing i guess you can chalk up to them being old soldiers and somewhat out of practice in real mech combat, rather than simulated lasertag stuff.

the Loonie's on the otherhand.. oh boy. with another hundred points to work with their tankers got better skills, and their infantry brought up to a level of skill that fits the stories. (for all that is actually worth in AS.  xp )
big change? the Warrior VTOL's got switched to -7A models.. mostly to better fit the models i have for them. (plus the extra long range damage is nice)
they also gained a second artillery battery ( >:D) and a trio of Ferret VTOL's to use as additional spotters.

i think this version definitely fits the Kowloon mindset a little better.

i also tweaked the fluff of the Rùa Tank Destroyer.. leaving it as a full Kowloon invention rather than a modified vedette. partly because i would a better source of Minis (the Brigade Models Neo-Soviet Vombat Tank-APC.)


and i've added a dropship.. the Trojan (expeditionary). which is a prime example of how BT cargo bays might well be made of hammerspace..

taking name suggestions for both the Union assigned to the Yeomanry (which does not have to fit their motif) and for the modified Trojan (which would probably be in Kowloon style Vietnamese)

Kowloonese treat dropships like boats-they give them a number, rather than a name most of the time, with 'names' being informally applied by the crew, so there's no 'standard' for how they name dropships (unlike their treatment of surface watercraft or jump-capable vessels, both of which have traditional naming structures.)

It's likely that the Ersatzkampfgruppen has a Jumpship from the Kowloon yards 'on loan' to provide for that aspect of logistics-these would typically be monkey-copy merchant, invader, or tramp class vessels with the prefix "MS" followed by a feminine first name in any of fifty different languages, but the most common would be biblically derived, old testament feminine names. 

Full maintenance naming then, would be something akin to "MS Sarah" for the jumpship, with the dropship being "Sarah one" for the modded Trojan class, and the Bucklands dropship named according to LCAF/Bucklands local traditions.

If you're really going to reach deep into Kowlooniverse stuff, then you should account for the fighters that come with the jumpship, because lizzie doesn't lend troops without air support, and that air support is usually spelled "SB-27" in twelve packs.

Typical designation for a fighter unit assigned to something like this, would be "LCN Reserve squadron/Coast Guard" on the paperwork header, with the fighters being prefixed "VFA-(insert squadron number)"  followed by individual tail-numbers and the use of decorative nose-art that usually offends the eyes of LCAF regulars.

[glitterboy2098]

out of curiosity, if i did want to add some SB-27's to the force (at 19pv each base), what would you suggest i drop? skill levels on the tanks? get rid of some of the vehicles?

i probably couldn't fit more than two fighters, without majorly reworking it, would those even be worth adding?

[Daryk]

Half the VTOLs for a pair of Sabres?

[Cannonshop]

out of curiosity, if i did want to add some SB-27's to the force (at 19pv each base), what would you suggest i drop? skill levels on the tanks? get rid of some of the vehicles?

i probably couldn't fit more than two fighters, without majorly reworking it, would those even be worth adding?

Generally speaking, you can get away without them entirely provided you stick to a total ground-game structure and assume air-support is irrelevant.

But...

You can also maybe (depending on how you're running your campaign) structure them as a 'reserve' and then mix/match as needed and by mission.  Remember that under Kowloon's local doctrine, Aerospace falls under the Coast Guard, and while they train in mixed air/land battle, the funding and command chain is kept administratively separated.  For an EKG unit, it could well be that the Archon and the brigtht-boys at Mount Asgard don't want to have that imbalance in power for what amounts to an emergency formation.  (imbalance in local power-having one world contributing the bulk of both conventional AND aerospace might be seen as risky for what amounts to a unit under National colors.)

Keep in mind, the Lyran Commonwealth is a FEUDAL state, and that kind of imbalance might threaten the established order too much.  So there's actually a strong story-reason not to include them at all.

But if you're GOING to include them, losing a couple of actual tanks might be the way to go in order to get a wing-pair on the board, alternately, only bringing it out against higher-value opponents can buy you the slack to include them in BV matched games-say, for example, fighting Clan opponents at numerical parity or a bv disadvantage.  (those are hard fights to WIN, but that's kind of the point.)

[glitterboy2098]

mostly thinking from a points value standpoint. i could probably fit two if i drop the Ferrets and downgrade the tanks to skill 5.

[glitterboy2098]

decided to leave out the fighters, but may drop the ferrets anyway. not sure if they really bring enough just acting as spotting, given the warriors and infantry both can do that role.

in other news, i put in an order from Brigade Models for 18 neo-soviet BMP-BM APC's to represent the Rùa's. (plus a quartet of the Bars MBT's to use as Po's for the update to my Capellans force(s). )



still gotta pick up some field guns and a pack of infantry. (and the VTOL's to be the ferrets, if i decide to go that route)

[glitterboy2098]

so heads up, i hopefully will be revamping this a little in a future. i've identified a better canon BT vehicle to use for the Rua that more closely matches the miniatures i bought for them (a little less durability but also lower PV), and i'll be tweaking both units to try and shrink them down to about 400pv each. and i might be creating a 200pv supplemental force to add in for larger games instead. (possibly with some aerospace). and suggestions for a world they could come from? would rather not double up on kowloon, as cool as it would be to have some of the coastguard.

i'd also like to add some "history" of eKG Hagen to bring them up to at least the dropping of the fortress walls, but i'm not really sure what i can include since i'm still not very familiar with the ins and outs of all that has been going on. so taking suggestions there.

[DOC_Agren]

So the extra force, what about from Khartoum, it a world that a blank slate so you could play with it as you wish.  Here a idea for a force The Khartoum Kavaliers?

they could provide a limited aerospace assets in the form of Mustangs (re badged Sabres) and 2 Owl III or 2 Kaiseradler conventional aircraft, and what about ground support of either Hunters or LRM Carriers and AC2 Carrier for Airdefense if there enough points?

So what is new vehicle that you are using for Rua?

[glitterboy2098]

So what is new vehicle that you are using for Rua?

the medium laser scorpion. it has the twin laser turret matching the mini, and it has a 1 ton cargo/infantry bay. in AS the stats are similar to the goblin, it's a little less durable (at 2A/2S instead of 4A/3S) but actually has a bit heavier short range firepower. it's also cheaper.

i was able to fit the Kowloon force into 400pv easily enough, mostly by dropping the Ferrets and compromising on the skills a little, but i'm still having issues fitting the mech force into it. probably going to have to downgrade the weight of the mechs a little.

[DOC_Agren]

Interesting choice and I like it...  I thought you might have gone with a Galleon-102 or a modified version of it

[glitterboy2098]

i've been trying to stick to canon designs for this, in part because until recently there wasn't an easy way to get alpha strike stats for custom designs. (megamek can now do it but it's still a little rough.)

updated the first post with the new kowloon version. the Buckland unit i just put a strike through on because getting them to shed some weight and fit into 400pv has been tricky. might just have to downgrade to two lances of mechs, and shuffle the third lance over to the 200pv supplement force, or something.

[ANS Kamas P81]

https://www.mordel.net/tro.php?a=cbm

Mordel.net automatically calculates (and breaks down the calculations) for Alpha Strike.  It takes a little getting used to how it works but it's a good design program, and even lets you download and print record sheets or alpha strike cards.