Author Topic: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line  (Read 5831 times)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« on: 03 October 2019, 00:36:31 »


In the 3070s, Clan Wolf realized they had a serious problem.  Unlike their neighbors, the Bears and the Falcons, the Wolves had made the decision to keep all military production in their Homeworld holdings and not bother with any of the factories they captured in their invasion corridor very limited mech production in the Inner Sphere and relied mostly on their Homeworld facilities, especially after losing Satalice to the Ghost Bears in the early 60s.

Then this little thing called the Wars of Reaving happened and they suddenly found themselves unceremoniously ejected from the Homeworlds.  This would have been bad enough by itself, but there was also this little thing going on in the Inner Sphere called the Word of Blake Jihad that was busy savaging their forces, including the nuking of their factories on Tamar.  So the Wolves were desperately needing new mechs and didn’t have any in production.

With a last-ditch effort, they activated a factory on Tamar, presumably under the assumption that as the Blakists had already nuked the planet they wouldn’t do so again.  Finally, in 3074, the first new mech rolled out of the assembly: the Sun Cobra.

Tipping the scales at 55 tons, the Sun Cobra is at the top end of the Medium weight class.  It was a rushed, emergency job to get out any Battlemech, and this shows.  Unsurprisingly, it's a second line mech rather than an omnimech- they needed something fast and an omni would have taken more time.  A 220 XL engine powers it, providing a top speed of a  mere 65 kph, very slow for a medium mech.  Endo Steel provides further weight savings.  With that low of a ground speed, you’d expect it to be well armored, right?  Think again, as this mech has a mere eight tons of standard armor plating for protection.

How does that work out?  Not great.  Nowhere on the mech will withstand an AC20 shot without going internal, and only the center torso and arms can withstand a gauss slug, though the arms will be completely stripped of armor after taking one.  This is not a mech that responds well to incoming fire.

All right, we’ve established that it’s got a small engine and little armor, so what did it do with all that mass?  In each armor, it packs a Gauss Rifle with a two-ton ammo bin.  Folks will probably find this extremely familiar, since it’s identical to the loadout of the classic Vulture C omnimech.  But if you’ve been doing the math, you’ll note that it’s still got five tons left to play with.  And those five tons are devoted to a Targeting Computer in its left torso.

That was apparently sufficient to tied the Wolves over until they could get other mechs, like the Tundra Wolf and Blood Reaper.  But, unsurprisingly, eventually someone decided that it needed an upgrade and in 3093 the Sun Cobra 2 debuted.

What changed?  Glad you asked.  The immediately noticeable change is that the Gauss Rifles are gone, along with their ammo.  In their place are a pair of Clan ER PPCs.  Same punch, same range, but half the mass and no ammo dependency.  This configuration should also seem familiar, being used on such mechs as the Puma Prime.  This change in weaponry freed up a considerable amount of tonnage.  First of all, the engine got boosted up to a 330 XL, increasing the mech’s speed by a full 50%.  Then, the mech got some much-needed armor, ending up one point shy of the maximum for its chassis.  It can now take a single shot from a Gauss Rifle in any location and still have some armor remaining (aside from the head, of course).  The legs and center torso have even more protection, even a close-range Heavy Gauss Rifle shot won’t penetrate.  On top of this, the mech mounts six additional double heatsinks, giving it enough dissipation to run and fire both PPCs without gaining heat.  The Targeting Computer remains, but as the Sun Cobra 2 mounts no other weapons besides the PPCs it’s shrunk to three tons.

In terms of combat, this mech is extremely straightforward in both variants.  It’s a sniper either way.  The original, duet to being slow and having thin layers of sheet metal for armor, needs to find somewhere way in the back of the battlefield, preferably in the woods or behind partial cover, or ideally both.  Then it snipes while its teammates act to prevent hostile units from getting close.  The Sun Cobra 2, thanks to its increased speed and armor, can afford to take more risks and move out into the open for good shots, but it’s still pretty obvious what you’re going to do with it most of the time.

Fighting a Sun Cobra is likewise straight forward.  Get in its face.  As thin as the armor is, the Sun Cobra 1 can’t really afford to be hit by anything, even light mechs constitute a serious threat.  The Sun Cobra 2 is more durable, but due to having the high-heat weapons you can try the reliable standby of Inferno missiles and plasma weapons to generate extra heat and try to force ii to choose between maintaining fire or staying cool.  Reflective Armor or a Blue Shield can also be used to degrade its firepower, provided one has access to such technology.

While the design started out as a Wolf mech, by the Dark Age the Sun Cobra had spread to other factions, notably the Republic of the Sphere and the Federated Suns.  In fact, the Master Unit list doesn’t even list the Sun Cobra 2 as a Wolf mech.  Presumably it’s being produced by the Sea Foxes.  In any event, both variants are fairly widespread now, so it should not be a surprise to see it appear on any front.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: 03 October 2019, 16:37:16 by MoneyLovinOgre4Hire »
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Caedis Animus

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #1 on: 03 October 2019, 00:46:19 »
I find it hard to say anything positive or negative about the Sun Cobra. On the one hand, it's a pretty 'optimal' design, aping the already pretty effective Mad Dog C. On the other... It's kind of slow and kind of flimsy until you get to the 2, which is basically a Hellstar 2; lite edition, but without the pants-wetting fear of the assault mech (Unless you have reflective and Blue Shield, then you just laugh at the poor fool on the other side).

It reminds me of the Hunchback IIC as people customize it in Mechwarrior Online, honestly. It's optimized for the size, relatively, and it's not bad in a fight; But if anything legitimately pays attention to it, it'll still fall apart because it's a fragile medium, and a sluggish or average-speed one at that.

RevenVrake

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #2 on: 03 October 2019, 03:00:28 »
The thing looks a bit like a weird BattleMaster, but with gun arms rather than actual fists.

I like the ER PPC version for not needing ammo or having anything explosive in its chassis.

Luciora

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #3 on: 03 October 2019, 03:10:23 »
I really question who decided upon the aesthetic for the Dark Age.  Tonka Birdcage robots really do not match any of the previous TRO designs trends.  Even the rounded designs of 3055-3060 didn't look that out of place.

As for the stats, it's a boring design to me. 

Caedis Animus

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #4 on: 03 October 2019, 05:11:26 »
I really question who decided upon the aesthetic for the Dark Age.  Tonka Birdcage robots really do not match any of the previous TRO designs trends.  Even the rounded designs of 3055-3060 didn't look that out of place.
I think it's a bit unfair to generalize the entirety of the Dark Age like that. It's not like Battletech's ever had a consistent design trend in the first place, as shown below.

Not to make it an argument about aesthetics, but the Sun Cobra's a hiccup of its era, just like the Garm or Cossack of TRO3060 or the TRO3025 Ostscout. And for every Sun Cobra, there's an Atlas II. Unless you're talking about Clickytech Minis. Dark Age's Clickytech minis are almost all awful.
« Last Edit: 03 October 2019, 05:17:13 by Caedis Animus »

grimlock1

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #5 on: 03 October 2019, 08:46:15 »
I could have sworn this thing had a gauss and an SB gauss.  I must be confusing this with an IS design.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #6 on: 03 October 2019, 09:30:39 »
You are thinking of the Carronade . . .

Actually, the Crusader Wolves DID have some production in the IS- at least a Gargoyle factory on Tamar . . . and had production they had worked up in other areas, Vlad just lost them (Satalice) to the Bears when he aided the Horses-Bears tiff.  They consolidated it all on Tamar to avoid losing it . . . just in time to have Blakists drop a can'o sunshine on the sites.  I think they also produced Lobos at that site.

This thing is also a downgrade of the traditional secondline mech that the Clans fielded, the Glass Spider- though not the Wolves' specific Glass Spider II.

The TC makes some sense considering Vlad is going to be putting his weakest warriors into the command couch of this thing- prove you can do better and you will move up.  Was it ever determined if the Sun Cobra 2 was made by someone else?  Some of the early fluff had it linked to a IS source.  If not, it is absolutely needed post-Jihad since they made no other properly paced mediums and in fact were missing lights too until the Wulfen was trotted out.  Unfortunately this is one of those circumstances they are bound up by MWDA stats/art . . . Crusader Wolves would have been better off making it a generalist using a weapons mix like the later Night Wolf.

I also think it would have been better off placed in another Clan except that whole bit about the Crusader Wolves needing med production.  With no anti-infantry weapons or anything that fends off vehicles, it would have been a better design for the Hell's Horses- a mobile BFG platform to hammer enemy mechs & heavy armor while being screened by friendly vehicles & BA.

The original Sun Cobra is going to be at risk from enemy BA and any sort of speedster be it mech or hovertank.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #7 on: 03 October 2019, 10:41:19 »
This thing is also a downgrade of the traditional secondline mech that the Clans fielded, the Glass Spider- though not the Wolves' specific Glass Spider II.

Yeah, I just decided to go with the first (by appearance) Clan mechs to mount those weapon arrays rather than trying to create an exhaustive list.  I think the Unseen Galahad sitting by my desk is glaring at me.

Quote
The TC makes some sense considering Vlad is going to be putting his weakest warriors into the command couch of this thing- prove you can do better and you will move up.

It also makes the design pretty fearsome in the hands of an elite warrior.  Someone with the ability to take aimed shots at long range can potentially cripple enemy mechs before they get close enough to fight back.

Quote
  Was it ever determined if the Sun Cobra 2 was made by someone else?  Some of the early fluff had it linked to a IS source.  If not, it is absolutely needed post-Jihad since they made no other properly paced mediums and in fact were missing lights too until the Wulfen was trotted out.  Unfortunately this is one of those circumstances they are bound up by MWDA stats/art . . . Crusader Wolves would have been better off making it a generalist using a weapons mix like the later Night Wolf.

Yeah, I couldn't find any actual documentation on who's producing the SC2, aside from blurbs about the DA dossier.  I chose to speculate that it was the Foxes just because of the factions with access to the mech, they're the ones who seemed best positioned to be producing it and selling it to everyone else.

Quote
I also think it would have been better off placed in another Clan except that whole bit about the Crusader Wolves needing med production.  With no anti-infantry weapons or anything that fends off vehicles, it would have been a better design for the Hell's Horses- a mobile BFG platform to hammer enemy mechs & heavy armor while being screened by friendly vehicles & BA.

The original Sun Cobra is going to be at risk from enemy BA and any sort of speedster be it mech or hovertank.

I absolutely agree with all of this.
« Last Edit: 03 October 2019, 12:47:45 by MoneyLovinOgre4Hire »
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Luciora

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #8 on: 03 October 2019, 11:33:11 »
I apologize, I should have specifically referred to the WizKids released minis.  There are a number of the 3080+ designs that I do like and have collected, as it is, so that was a rather broad brush I was using.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #9 on: 03 October 2019, 16:39:01 »
The original post has been edited for accuracy regarding Clan Wolf's mech production in the Inner Sphere.  Thank you, Colt Ward.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #10 on: 03 October 2019, 23:19:43 »
Are we gonna talk about how the arms are designed? no? just me then? okay......

The sun cobra isn't a flashy 'mech, or an optimised 'mech or even a very well thought out 'mech. But it's got paired headcappers out at enough range a lot of 'mechs aren't able to return fire and they're tied to a TC so who cares. Sometimes all you need is to be so horrifically dangerous that the enemy forgets the rest of your forces know they're gonna come after the big scary guns.

also, Caedis Animus what is the name of that majestic beast in the top right of your little collage. you clearly got confused and posted beauty instead of a beast.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #11 on: 03 October 2019, 23:36:34 »
Pretty sure its a Striker?

Btw, I do not have BMM . . . what quirks did the Sun Cobra get?
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #12 on: 04 October 2019, 00:24:21 »
Variable Range Targeting, according to the BMM Beta version (only version I have in PDF).  Now that makes for an interesting flip.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #13 on: 04 October 2019, 01:14:43 »
swap mods?  So +0 at long and +4 at short option?
Colt Ward
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RevenVrake

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #14 on: 04 October 2019, 03:58:46 »
Question, do the Crusader Wolves have access to the Hyper Assault Gauss Rifles? Cause a pair of the class 20s in this chassis might be pretty cool, for combined sand-blasting and anti-air duties.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #15 on: 04 October 2019, 04:57:41 »
The Sun Cobra was a decent response to Clan Wolf-@ needs of the time, much like the Night Wolf.  You have heavy take down power vs vehicles and mechs, adding in the TC for superior accuracy, and the Clan's excellent gunnery skills add in the icing on the cake.  Overall I like it.  A lot of the Jihad era designs go all over the place trying to do too much, but this one has a simple task, kill the enemy from long range.

I can see the Sun Cobra getting a large amount of use in Dark Age 2nd line units and PGCs. It's a fairly low cost investment, and would work nicely as a hammer to a faster moving medium or heavy Star.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #16 on: 04 October 2019, 09:17:52 »
swap mods?  So +0 at long and +4 at short option?

It's just a +1/-1, so nothing that extreme.
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #17 on: 04 October 2019, 09:18:35 »
Question, do the Crusader Wolves have access to the Hyper Assault Gauss Rifles? Cause a pair of the class 20s in this chassis might be pretty cool, for combined sand-blasting and anti-air duties.

Every Clan has access to HAGs.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #18 on: 04 October 2019, 09:45:02 »
It's just a +1/-1, so nothing that extreme.

Okay, I think I was remembering the Rangemaster SPA . . .
Colt Ward
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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #19 on: 04 October 2019, 10:00:44 »
And Clan Jade Falcon in the DA is run by one!

But back to the topic, the arms don't give the feel of a Gauss, more of a PPC, and yes, I'd prefer the Galahad, especially for looks.

Every Clan has access to HAGs.

Colt Ward

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #20 on: 04 October 2019, 10:08:05 »
But back to the topic, the arms don't give the feel of a Gauss, more of a PPC, and yes, I'd prefer the Galahad, especially for looks.



Well . . . while the Sun Cobra shows up IRL earlier, the Galahad is definitely the BTU ancestor IMO.  It has the 'pneumatics' for the arms, take where the head is and give the wide open cockpit instead of that little visor slit and its a pretty fair similarity.  Even being slow makes it resemble the Galahad.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #21 on: 04 October 2019, 10:19:28 »
While the design started out as a Wolf mech, by the Dark Age the Sun Cobra had spread to other factions, notably the Republic of the Sphere and the Federated Suns.  In fact, the Master Unit list doesn’t even list the Sun Cobra 2 as a Wolf mech.  Presumably it’s being produced by the Sea Foxes.  In any event, both variants are fairly widespread now, so it should not be a surprise to see it appear on any front.

Thoughts?

It looks like it's a nice garrison unit. I could see the Suns in particular purchasing this in large numbers for their March Militia commands. Can you imagine how effective they'd be against pirate units in the Periphery March?

Somewhat surprising to me that the Republic or Suns didn't add a clantech Rotary autocannon for fun. Oh well. Off to Fan Designs to correct that oversight. ;) Edit: Oversight corrected

The thing looks a bit like a weird BattleMaster, but with gun arms rather than actual fists.

reminds me more of a Bear Cub or streamlined Hammerhands, but that's just me.
« Last Edit: 04 October 2019, 10:37:34 by mbear »
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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #22 on: 04 October 2019, 10:49:58 »
Ah, the Blackjack IIC!  But really, though.  Slow medium with long range ballistic weapons in the arms. All it’s missing is jump jets, backup lasers, and a few tons of armor.


Ok, ok, so they’re not *that* similar.  But I have to believe that an old BJ-1 or -3 jock would love to upgrade to a Sun Cobra.  Especially a 2.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #23 on: 04 October 2019, 12:43:45 »
I have to agree with Colt Ward observations about the similarities between the ancient Gladiator and Sun Cobra.  Both were lemons of their time, but still usable enough as long-range fire support until someone catches wind of where their shooting.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #24 on: 04 October 2019, 14:47:48 »
Ah, the Blackjack IIC!  But really, though.  Slow medium with long range ballistic weapons in the arms. All it’s missing is jump jets, backup lasers, and a few tons of armor.


Ok, ok, so they’re not *that* similar.  But I have to believe that an old BJ-1 or -3 jock would love to upgrade to a Sun Cobra.  Especially a 2.
The 2 isn't fanfreaking-tastic,  but it's bricked for it's weight, 6/9 is good speed for a medium, and paired cERPPC's + TC is never bad combination. Enforcer, Hunchie, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Scorpion, and Lancelot pilots would probably see a Sun Cobra 2 as a trade up. What it gives up in crit seeking, it gains in accuracy, range and two cups of decappuccino each turn.
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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #25 on: 04 October 2019, 22:21:45 »
 :stupid:
I have spoken.


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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #26 on: 04 October 2019, 22:24:36 »
The original is basically Hollander III: The Hollandering or alternatively the JM6-DG's edgy Clan cousin.  (The armor level is annoyingly similar, for instance.)  I'd say use them as supports but like Hollanders, those Gauss rifles are going to attract more attention than the armor is likely to let you live through.

The second is what happens when you let an Adder Prime grow up big and strong, but then screw up a repair and lock the chassis instead of letting it mature into a Stormcrow.

The 2 isn't fanfreaking-tastic,  but it's bricked for it's weight, 6/9 is good speed for a medium, and paired cERPPC's + TC is never bad combination. Enforcer, Hunchie, Shadow Hawk, Wolverine, Scorpion, and Lancelot pilots would probably see a Sun Cobra 2 as a trade up. What it gives up in crit seeking, it gains in accuracy, range and two cups of decappuccino each turn.

Sarcasm aside, you're right, it's a very solid package.  Mobile, punchy, and if you need crit-seeking, that's why lancemates are a thing.  Or bring more Sun Cobra 2s.  If you fire enough ER PPCs at one target, it's like crit-seeking, only punchier!  Lancelot and Scorpion pilots will be right at home, Hunchback jocks are going to be ecstatic, and the others probably like the new 'Mech smell but might miss their jump jets.

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Re: Mech of the Week: Sun Cobra Second Line
« Reply #27 on: 05 October 2019, 00:21:45 »
also, Caedis Animus what is the name of that majestic beast in the top right of your little collage. you clearly got confused and posted beauty instead of a beast.
Ah, that's... Not actually my collage. But that's a Spartan.

https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Spartan

Honestly? The Spartan's not an awful little assault. Basically the SLDF's other 5/8 assault.
« Last Edit: 05 October 2019, 00:25:21 by Caedis Animus »