Author Topic: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar  (Read 12975 times)

Moonsword

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'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« on: 14 October 2011, 16:49:52 »
'Mech of the Week: AL-* Alfar

Hailing from the Reunification War, the Alfar was the result of an attempt by Archon Tracial Steiner to counter the long-standing Lyran bias toward heavy, relatively immobile formations.  (It's possible that the contract for the Sentinel, originally signed in 2561, has similar origins.)  In a curious way, the Alfar may represent the early version of the modern Lyran medium 'Mech force: overlooked and obscure but dangerous in the hands of those rare Lyran commanders capable of looking past the "wall of steel" doctrine.  Intended to supplement or even replace the Shadow Hawk and Griffin in Lyran formations when it was introduced in 2573, the Alfar was ultimately replaced by upgraded versions of both BattleMechs despite being a pilot favorite in the Reunification War.  It wasn't battlefield performance that doomed the Alfar in the end but rather the standardization the SLDF strove for after the trials and travails of supplying units in the Reunification War and the fact that the Alfar had always been difficult to maintain.  In the parlance of the USAF, they were hanger queens, the design's custom fittings taking a great deal of time and logistical support to keep in tiptop shape.  Two examples survived in private hands until the First Succession War but were apparently destroyed in that conflagration.

If you guessed that the Alfar was another one of the cluster of 55 ton 'Mechs, you win a no-prize.  The part that's bound to raise eyebrows is the endo-steel skeleton, a technology that was shared by the Hegemony with the Star League member states; it's likely that the Alfar represents the first Lyran endo-steel BattleMech.  Like what sometimes seems to be every 5/8 55 tonner in the Inner Sphere, it uses a version of the venerable, beloved CoreTek 275 to go 86 kph, and the Alfar matches the Shadow Hawk's decision to use only three jump jets, leaving it with 90 meters of jump capability.  Attached to the engine are 15 single heat sinks.  Another very new technology is the ten tons of ferro-fibrous armor, just under the maximum for the frame.  With 27 points on the center torso, 19 on the sides, 17 on the arms, and 25 on the legs as well as the standard 9 points on the head, the armor is universally meeting the Gauss test everywhere it's physically possible to but a class 20 autocannon to the side torsos will go internal immediately, as will one that lands on the arms.  9 points to the rear center torso is useful.  Whether the 6 points on the rear sides is worth not having 20 on the front is a matter of personal taste.  A Magna Hellstar PPC mounted along the right forearm provides a substantial long-range punch, backed by three Magna Mk. II medium lasers (two on the left arm, one just above the cockpit) and a Shannon Six-shooter SRM 6 launcher in the left torso.  Overall, the entire 'Mech is similar to the GLD-4R model of the Gladiator, packing an extra laser, two more heat sinks, and additional armor against the Gladiator's five jump jets, and I can see why pilots were so happy with their rides.  I can also see why it wasn't so much more impressive that the SLDF or LCAF were inclined to deal with the maintenance needs in a peacetime environment.

The only official variant, known as the Dökkálfar or Dark Elf, is less impressive.  It reminds me of the UZL-2S Uziel but lacks the technological sophistication (read: double heat sinks) to pull it off.  Very simple in concept, the lasers and SRMs are dropped for a second PPC.  With only 15 heat sinks, this works about as well as you'd expect.  A few Lyran formations were fond of them and they can be effective.  Generally, though, their lack of sustained ranged firepower (requiring a 2-1-1 firing pattern to cool off properly if they're moving; not doing it rapidly imposes targeting penalties in addition to MP loss) and lack of capabilities if someone managed to get in close tended to make them relatively inefficient brawlers.  Fortunately for them, many of the more effective tanks I could suggest to deal with the Dark Elf are centuries off while standard 'Mechs are relatively rare in Periphery ranks.

Operating the original is basically like operating any of the other 5/8/x 55 ton 'Mechs of that same basic technological generation.  Use the PPC to spar, then close in and pound someone.  The slight improvements are useful but they're far from an unbeatable edge, meaning that it comes down to pilots, tactics, terrain, and dice.  The original can fight at longish ranges with the PPC or do a credible job up close, unlike the Shadow Hawk, and really, as a replacement for the SHD-2H, it's exceptional.  The Dark Elf is better avoided.  The heat is a pain in the neck; that one heat sink difference compared to a Marauder actually does make a difference.

Stopping Alfars is again a lot like fighting other 'Mechs of the same type.  The Dark Elf will suffer and suffer badly against anyone with Infernos, not that I would ever suggest anything so mean-spirited.  Nope, nope, nope.  In a Wolverine, your best bet is to get in close, under the PPC range if possible, and dance around an Alfar using your slightly greater jump range.  (WLV-6Ms will have more luck with that.)  A Gladiator or (if for some reason you have one on the same battlefield) Cronus should play it about the same way.  Griffins want to do the exact opposite - stay at range or the Alfar's close-in firepower will eat you alive.  Phoenixes can go either way.  Shadow Hawks want to find friends.

References: The problem with working out on the edge like this is no one else has gotten anywhere yet.  We're inside the Sarna moratorium, the MUL hasn't been updated, and there's no miniature.  That said, we do have this:

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #1 on: 14 October 2011, 17:22:53 »
The similarities to the Gladiator make me wonder OOC if we're scraping the barrel as far as significantly dissimilar medium mechs with Age of War tech. Granted, there is only so much you can do at that tech level and weight.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #2 on: 14 October 2011, 20:08:19 »
i love the visual look of this one, even if the pose isn't all that impressive.

i do find it interesting that in terms of loadout, this mech is very similar to the Diamyo made by the combine in 3055. PPC, SRM6, ML's..

the Diamyo feels like a 15 ton lighter mirror image of this mech. there is even an aesthetic similarity.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #3 on: 14 October 2011, 20:30:07 »
The similarities to the Gladiator make me wonder OOC if we're scraping the barrel as far as significantly dissimilar medium mechs with Age of War tech. Granted, there is only so much you can do at that tech level and weight.

I'd be willing to bet the author never looked closely at the Gladiator and figured this was a great configuration for the time.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #4 on: 14 October 2011, 20:50:30 »
Is it me or does that kind of look like a larger version of the Ravager Battle Armor? Maybe in dim lighting after a few too many beers.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #5 on: 14 October 2011, 21:25:27 »
It does have a passing resemblance.

My only dislike about it is that it's not available post Reunification War.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #6 on: 15 October 2011, 00:54:53 »
Anyone else find it odd that a Pre-Reunification War design has Endo Steel and Ferro-Fibrous armor? I know it works out if you look at the years, but it seems like the era of Introtech designs was really really really short.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #7 on: 15 October 2011, 01:49:22 »
My problem with this thing is that it's too good.

I think the authors got carried away in TRO:3075 and ended up constructing BattleMechs and Vehicles which were vastly superior to the units they supposedly were in competition with. The Alfar has no flaws, whatsoever. It has maxed-out armor, very good firepower and a decent heat curve. Contrast this with the SHD-2H or GRF-1N and you have to ask yourself why they would even bother continuing either of those frames with the Alfar around.

That's a big problem, IMO, as there should be a reason these ancient Mechs were discontinued. The BKX-7K, HMH-3D, GLD-4R and ICR-1X suffer from the same, bizarre logic. I would take ANY of those over the garbage that was on the field in the 3rd and 4th Succession War, and especially over the laughable STN-3L. Stop me if I'm wrong, but isn't technology and design philosophy supposed to improve with time?
« Last Edit: 15 October 2011, 01:51:17 by TigerShark »
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Korzon77

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #8 on: 15 October 2011, 01:54:37 »
Anyone else find it odd that a Pre-Reunification War design has Endo Steel and Ferro-Fibrous armor? I know it works out if you look at the years, but it seems like the era of Introtech designs was really really really short.

Take a look at SOTA between say, 1935 and 1945 in the real world-- i'ts not at all surprising that you'll see very, very fast changes in designs.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #9 on: 15 October 2011, 03:41:27 »
Anyone else find it odd that a Pre-Reunification War design has Endo Steel and Ferro-Fibrous armor? I know it works out if you look at the years, but it seems like the era of Introtech designs was really really really short.

Actually, if you look closely, the years don't work out. Historical: Reunification War page 177 gives the Lyran Commonwealth access to advanced components as of 2574. The Alfar is a Lyran design that entered service (not "was at the prototype stage" or anything, entered service) in 2573...

...and what's more, according to the table on page 178, ferro-fibrous armor isn't on the list of advanced components made available to Star League member-states anyway; it's missing that telltale asterisk. So the Alfar shouldn't have it in any case.

I've asked about that discrepancy over in Ask the Writers back in early September, but don't believe I've seen an answer yet.

Maelwys

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #10 on: 15 October 2011, 04:47:02 »
Take a look at SOTA between say, 1935 and 1945 in the real world-- i'ts not at all surprising that you'll see very, very fast changes in designs.

Its not so much the fast changes, its that they're using this tech so early in the Star League, that you have to wonder about the SLDF's/Royal's tech advantage in 2750. The tech decline in the Succession Wars makes sense if you assume that most of the Star League technology was produced in the Terran Hegemony, and alot of it got lost in major fighting/nuking/bioweapons/orbital bombardments in the First and Second Succession War.  But now we're talking about the Houses losing something they've known how to produce for 200 years. Its not like this technology was only in a few places during the Star League, and the factories in the Hegemony nuked, and you've only got scraps of data because the laboratory where its being worked on was waded through by a MechWarrior intent on getting his Atlas to the next block as quickly as possible. This is matured technology that was built outside the Terran Hegemony. For two centuries.

Actually, if you look closely, the years don't work out. Historical: Reunification War page 177 gives the Lyran Commonwealth access to advanced components as of 2574. The Alfar is a Lyran design that entered service (not "was at the prototype stage" or anything, entered service) in 2573...

...and what's more, according to the table on page 178, ferro-fibrous armor isn't on the list of advanced components made available to Star League member-states anyway; it's missing that telltale asterisk. So the Alfar shouldn't have it in any case.

I've asked about that discrepancy over in Ask the Writers back in early September, but don't believe I've seen an answer yet.

I didn't even think to look at the Reunification War tech progression, I just looked at Endo Steel in the TechManual, which was developed in the late 2400's. In which case 100 years might explain the Lyrans having it. Only the other hand, now that I bother to look at the dates for the FF Armor in TM, it was developed in 2571. That's a heck of a quick turn around for the Lyrans.

Maelwys

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #11 on: 15 October 2011, 07:53:23 »
Oddities aside, the original Alfar is a perfectly acceptable medium `Mech. Fluff reasons alone seem to have let the Shadow Hawk survive over the Alfar, and I can't imagine pilots were every unhappy with the design, unless they had to take their turn in the repair bay.

Just fast enough to hold its own, while the jump jets let it get out of any terrain other than the steepest hills. Pretty nice firepower as well, easily letting it hold its own against the Wolverine, Shadow Hawk, though the Griffin might make a good showing if it can keep the range up.

I'm rather surprised the Lyrans didn't push through and modify the design to keep it in production.

Moonsword

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #12 on: 15 October 2011, 08:48:17 »
...and what's more, according to the table on page 178, ferro-fibrous armor isn't on the list of advanced components made available to Star League member-states anyway; it's missing that telltale asterisk. So the Alfar shouldn't have it in any case.

That's a typo.

Quote from: Reunification War page 179
Ferro-fibrous armor was the very first military advancement that First Lord Ian Cameron shared with the newly formed Star League, though few League nations had developed serviceable versions of their own by the end of the Reunification War.

Keep in mind that the Lyrans have always had a better relationship with the Terran Hegemony than most of the Inner Sphere and lacked the Federated Suns' minor problems like just having a civil war or perennial economic difficulties.  If anyone was going to do something like the Alfar, the Lyrans would have been the ones, and the fact that its fittings are an enormous maintenance headache makes sense when you consider how new the technology is.  Keep in mind that we don't have the record sheets yet.  From what we have, prototype ferro-fibrous is perfectly possible.  (You can't get both it and prototype endo-steel on there, mind you.)

Oddities aside, the original Alfar is a perfectly acceptable medium `Mech. Fluff reasons alone seem to have let the Shadow Hawk survive over the Alfar, and I can't imagine pilots were every unhappy with the design, unless they had to take their turn in the repair bay.

Just fast enough to hold its own, while the jump jets let it get out of any terrain other than the steepest hills. Pretty nice firepower as well, easily letting it hold its own against the Wolverine, Shadow Hawk, though the Griffin might make a good showing if it can keep the range up.

Yep.  It's not necessarily going to dominate them - better pilots or the right terrain can count for a lot, and the maintenance time makes extended campaigns more problematic, a lesson the SLDF would have had rammed down its throat in a war like this one - but the endo-steel and FF impart a definite edge.

I'm rather surprised the Lyrans didn't push through and modify the design to keep it in production.

As I've noted before, total cost of ownership.  Leaving aside the higher base cost from the materials (which is relatively limited), they're a cast-iron pain in the posterior to maintain, something that would have gotten to be a bigger and bigger problem as the Star League Defense Force standardized on the Unseen Trio.  It would have looked logical to the accountants and politicians to axe the design.  I fully expect a lot of pilots were pretty steamed about the decision, too.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #13 on: 15 October 2011, 11:17:09 »
I rather like the looks of the mech.  Another possible reason for its lose might be that perhaps the endo and ferro were imported from the Star League itself.  After the reunification war the star league stopped allowing them to be imported. 
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #14 on: 15 October 2011, 13:14:41 »
Maybe. If I were the Great Houses, my first priority would be to reverse engineer this advanced technology. Endo Steel and Ferro-Fibrous require special manufacturing techniques and a knowledge of metallurgy. Although extremely difficult, it wouldn't be completely out-of-the-question for them to figure them out.

Also, do we know whether the SL gave them the manufacturing techniques as well? Or just shipments of the material?
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #15 on: 15 October 2011, 17:13:31 »
I think they made it availible ie sold it to them or gave them design specs that would have to be matched, nothing much more.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #16 on: 15 October 2011, 17:48:21 »
According to the Historical, it appears they sold the finished goods to the member states, who then reverse-engineered it before, during and after the war. This proliferation goes as far as the Periphery, who had a limited amount (it seems) and actually had enough access to it for a retrofitting of their combat units.

Quote
The Terran Hegemony developed endo steel structure in the 25th century, jealously guarding that incredible advancement until it inevitably proliferated throughout the rest of the Inner Sphere. The secrets of endo steel ultimately found their way into the Periphery, though by the beginning of the Reunification War very few combat units outside of the Terran Hegemony had yet been refitted with endo steel frames. This functions as Inner Sphere endo steel per the standard internal structure rules with the following exceptions:

In the case of the Alfar, I believe the intro date to be erroneous and should probably be considered the "prototype" date, with varying degrees of availability throughout the war.
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A. Lurker

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #17 on: 16 October 2011, 07:23:13 »
That's a typo.

Then it should probably be brought up on the relevant errata thread, as that table rather strongly implies that the only technologies the Hegemony shared (at the time, anyway) were CASE and endo steel. If FF is supposed to be on that list, too, then who knows what else is?

The 'Mech itself, mind you, I rather like. Sure, stat-wise it's pretty obviously a kind of Shadow Grifferine (movement profile from here, PPC from there, SRM and head-mounted laser from there...) -- but that's not necessarily a bad thing to be, especially when advanced materials let you put more armor onto its frame than its "predecessors" got. Fifteen heat sinks are more than enough to let you jump or run and fire that PPC freely (possibly with the occasional laser shot thrown in for good measure), and up close and personal you can just drop the PPC and open up with lasers and missiles instead.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #18 on: 16 October 2011, 09:53:52 »
From the picture of the Alfar, it does look like a baby Zeus. The cylindrical shoulders and almost-identical head assembly as well as the PPC main gun is very Zeus-like. Perhaps the Lyrans did not axe the design, but simply gave it a IIC treatment prior to the First Succession War.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #19 on: 16 October 2011, 12:40:45 »
From the picture of the Alfar, it does look like a baby Zeus. The cylindrical shoulders and almost-identical head assembly as well as the PPC main gun is very Zeus-like. Perhaps the Lyrans did not axe the design, but simply gave it a IIC treatment prior to the First Succession War.

To me, there is something about the centre torso that looks rather War Dog-like...

As for the design itself, yes, "Shadow Grifferene" sums it up well.  Like the upgraded Royal versions of the classic 55-ton trio, it's basically another Wolverine variant in a new skin.  If the Lyrans could do this in the mid-2500s, then it obviously prompts the question why the Hegemony didn't remake  the Wolverine *sooner* (and when they did, they made the Wolverine II, with the UAC/5...)

As for the comparison with the Gladiator, something interesting about the weapon placement.  IIRC, all the Gladiator's weapons are in its arms, meaning if the arms get shot off, it's toothless.  The Alfar, with a weapon placement more akin to the Wolverine's, will still greatly lament the loss of its PPC, but could at least keep going at close range with the SRMs and head-mounted laser (at least until the ammo blows).

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #20 on: 11 November 2012, 17:12:57 »
This would have been perfect for a modern refit. Keeping the engine, you switch the PPC for an ER model, yank three heat sinks and convert the rest to doubles, then throw on another three MLs for good measure. A tough, middleweight trooper with a long range sting, good speed, and a six-pack of MLs and a SRM-6 up close.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #21 on: 12 November 2012, 02:00:22 »
the Alfar? well, alright.

the Alfar's design is very.....ah, busy. there's something for nearly everyone to like about it somewhere....and ah, well i'm sure the reverse is true too. a central torso pod with wide shoulders sits atop a pair of massive retrograde legs that end in comparatively tiny feet that look an awful lot like cloven hooves. the arms start in tall shoulder shields and terminate in tri-digited hands covered in bulky forearm braces. it's really hard for me to say anything interesting about the 'mech because there's just so many little decisions going on with it.

it's main gun, the PPC in the arm is a huge cannon that look vaguely like megatron's fusion cannon in transformers. and it's backed up by a handful of squared laser ports that i personally like very much, but feel a little like they're clashing with the generally sloped lines they jut out of. the legs look like they're unbalanced, and the arms seem patchwork.....

i'm afraid that the Alfar may end up being something of a white elephant visually. the design just seems to have too many things trying to work their own way at the same time. i just realized after staring at the image of this thing for a good ten minutes that it is possessed of a tailfin. i'm nicknaming it the homermech 3000. i deeply regret choosing to try to speak only about the visual designs in the MOTW right now.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #22 on: 12 November 2012, 20:35:36 »
I laughed pretty hard when this 'Mech got released. Not because of the looks (it reminds me of the Enfield in some respects and that is a nice 'Mech), but because my brother had spent over a year playing an elven ranger by the same name in our Pathfinder campaign. It was a real shame when I found it, only to then see that the design is extinct in the modern era. Seems like a prime candidate for a revival.

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #23 on: 12 November 2012, 20:53:41 »
This would have been perfect for a modern refit. Keeping the engine, you switch the PPC for an ER model, yank three heat sinks and convert the rest to doubles, then throw on another three MLs for good measure. A tough, middleweight trooper with a long range sting, good speed, and a six-pack of MLs and a SRM-6 up close.

actually, i'd do the PPC and DHS change, but i'd add 2 JJ's for full mobility, and use the remaining tonnage to pull the SRM6 for a MML and ammo. thus making it even more of a 'Shadow Grifferene'..

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #24 on: 12 November 2012, 21:09:02 »
That sounds too close to existing Griffin and Shadowhawk variants to really be worth building.
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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #25 on: 12 November 2012, 21:15:46 »
I haven't done the math but do you have enough crititcals space to even try for double heatsink??   

actually, i'd do the PPC and DHS change, but i'd add 2 JJ's for full mobility, and use the remaining tonnage to pull the SRM6 for a MML and ammo. thus making it even more of a 'Shadow Grifferene'..

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #26 on: 13 November 2012, 01:34:43 »
I haven't done the math but do you have enough crititcals space to even try for double heatsink??   

if you reduce the number of heat sinks, sure. at least according to solaris skunkwerks. drop it down to 12 DHS and you can stuff the one non-engine heat sink into the right torso.

That sounds too close to existing Griffin and Shadowhawk variants to really be worth building.
yes and no.. it's just enhancing the existing Alfar design concept to work in the Post-Jihad era. any similarity to classic trio variants is already inherent in the design.

still, even if you go the extra ML route, i'd still want to upgrade to 5 jump MP. 5 ML's instead of 6 wouldn't be too much of a loss, and the extra mobility would be useful. especially since with the DHS it's still over sinked enough to let you jump and fire the ERPPC without even causing a blip on the heat scale.

SCC

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #27 on: 14 November 2012, 05:27:56 »
I wonder why there's isn't a variant of the Griffin or something that builds of off this given the history it's likely to have happened and you can get a nasty bracket firer out of the deal (sort of like a mini-BattleMaster)

Sabelkatten

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #28 on: 14 November 2012, 07:45:13 »
No comments on the mech itself (it's pretty much my standard Wolverine mod, with a little extra thanks to advanced components), but one thought about the fluff.

FFA was (originally?) described as brittle and hard to work with. If the Alfar was built using the very first batch of FFA produced by the Lyrans it could explain much of the problems. After all, armor falling off randomly can be a bad thing! :D

Take a couple of years of irate techs and commanders, and the design might be phased out even if the problems have been mostly solved.

gyedid

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Re: 'Mech of the Week: Alfar
« Reply #29 on: 15 November 2012, 11:21:20 »
I wonder why there's isn't a variant of the Griffin or something that builds of off this given the history

There is--it's called a Royal Griffin  ;)

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.