Author Topic: Damocles . . .  (Read 22374 times)

Templar87

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #90 on: 01 February 2023, 03:05:13 »
Although waffling indecisively is certainly about Harrison's speed, considering his constant string of bad mistakes due to said vacillation. About the only decisions Harrison ever made that I can think of him sticking to were bad ones (hello continuing to draw down the AFFS in the face of Kuritan invasions eating most of two PDZs).
“Keep your feet on the ground, a spare magazine in your pocket, watch your buddy’s back and never, ever give anything but your all!”
–First Prince Andrew Davion
"He who has made no mistakes in war has never made war."
- Henri de la Tour d'Auvergne, Vicomte de Turenne, Marshal of France, 1641

Marveryn

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #91 on: 01 February 2023, 04:03:15 »
that raise a question in my mind.  Was julian the only candidate or a possible candidate he had choose from several others.  Perhaps he had someone else in mind that die prior to selecting julian.  Perhaps more then one that die under mysterious circumstances so he had to keep everything on the downlow.  I wouldnt put it past the draconis combine leadership to eliminate certain people if could get someone that would disestrous to the feds.  Heck clearly they had people in harrison court and in turn eyes and ears on what caleb was doing

Templar87

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #92 on: 01 February 2023, 04:20:11 »
that raise a question in my mind.  Was julian the only candidate or a possible candidate he had choose from several others.  Perhaps he had someone else in mind that die prior to selecting julian.  Perhaps more then one that die under mysterious circumstances so he had to keep everything on the downlow.  I wouldnt put it past the draconis combine leadership to eliminate certain people if could get someone that would disestrous to the feds.  Heck clearly they had people in harrison court and in turn eyes and ears on what caleb was doing


There's no indication of that that I know of; remember, they knew about Palmyra because, backstabbing crows that they are, the Ravens decided to screw over a reliable ally because YOLO.


I sincerely hope that Sterling McKenna ends up finding out just how well the Davion house atomics work first hand, considering their continuing behaviour.
“Keep your feet on the ground, a spare magazine in your pocket, watch your buddy’s back and never, ever give anything but your all!”
–First Prince Andrew Davion
"He who has made no mistakes in war has never made war."
- Henri de la Tour d'Auvergne, Vicomte de Turenne, Marshal of France, 1641

BrianDavion

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #93 on: 01 February 2023, 07:17:47 »

There's no indication of that that I know of; remember, they knew about Palmyra because, backstabbing crows that they are, the Ravens decided to screw over a reliable ally because YOLO.


I sincerely hope that Sterling McKenna ends up finding out just how well the Davion house atomics work first hand, considering their continuing behaviour.

I certainly wouldn't weep if the ravens lost their entire warship fleet. and not just because of Palmyra, but because with the state of every other navy in the inner sphere, for balance to be maintained, the Snow Raven navy must die
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Colt Ward

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #94 on: 01 February 2023, 10:10:38 »
When Caleb started his petty revenge on Julian, Amanda supported his behavior and always read to me like she knew Caleb was getting passed over.  Besides- feudalism! blood ties matter.


In fact, the whole growing up on New Syrtis is 'new' considering Harrison plucked Julian from his family on his home planet.
Colt Ward
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Templar87

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #95 on: 01 February 2023, 10:27:20 »
When Caleb started his petty revenge on Julian, Amanda supported his behavior and always read to me like she knew Caleb was getting passed over.  Besides- feudalism! blood ties matter.


In fact, the whole growing up on New Syrtis is 'new' considering Harrison plucked Julian from his family on his home planet.


No, he didn't. Like, the main sources on Julian's childhood/early life are Sword of Sedition and Fortress Republic, which are pretty clear that his biological mother died or otherwise left his life early enough that Julian doesn't seem to have any memories of her; and his father was, if a good parent when he was able to be involved, absent due to work-related reasons for most of it and died when Julian was thirteen. As far as is indicated, Amanda was the one who did most of the raising of him.


Also, Amanda wasn't involved in Caleb's petty moments, because he'd explicitly sent her away from Terra before starting on them. And, since Harrison didn't tell anybody aside from Caleb that he was planning on making Julian his heir, it'd be hard for Amanda to know that.
“Keep your feet on the ground, a spare magazine in your pocket, watch your buddy’s back and never, ever give anything but your all!”
–First Prince Andrew Davion
"He who has made no mistakes in war has never made war."
- Henri de la Tour d'Auvergne, Vicomte de Turenne, Marshal of France, 1641

Colt Ward

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #96 on: 01 February 2023, 12:49:36 »
Julian has a reflection on the conversation with his father when Harrison either visits him on his homeworld or sends for him to be a 'ward' of Harrison.  Amanda is not in the picture.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

DavyJones

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #97 on: 04 February 2023, 11:24:54 »
 My pet theory is Gavin is working for Alaric probably in exchange for a major role in the Ilklan Star League . If he were working to protect the Suns he would have been more proactive in curtailing Eric especially considering he controls Eric`s closest companion giving him a complete look into his inner council. But by playing Eric and Julian against each other he can slow down reconstruction efforts and cause discord and possible conflict ,weakening a potential adversary for the Ilklan . Steiner is a dumpster fire , Marik is still trying to get there legs under them as unified nation again .So that leaves Liao and Kurita as the 2 biggest threats to Alaric`s ambitions . as long as The Suns rebuilding is a long process they can be safely ignored for later or possibly invited to join if another Civil War kicks off with an offer of aid . And with Dominion Divided Yori will have her hands full for a bit . I`m Seeing a Daoshen v Alaric slugfest in the future with everyone else busy with there own issues .

BrianDavion

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #98 on: 05 February 2023, 05:24:17 »
My pet theory is Gavin is working for Alaric probably in exchange for a major role in the Ilklan Star League . If he were working to protect the Suns he would have been more proactive in curtailing Eric especially considering he controls Eric`s closest companion giving him a complete look into his inner council. But by playing Eric and Julian against each other he can slow down reconstruction efforts and cause discord and possible conflict ,weakening a potential adversary for the Ilklan . Steiner is a dumpster fire , Marik is still trying to get there legs under them as unified nation again .So that leaves Liao and Kurita as the 2 biggest threats to Alaric`s ambitions . as long as The Suns rebuilding is a long process they can be safely ignored for later or possibly invited to join if another Civil War kicks off with an offer of aid . And with Dominion Divided Yori will have her hands full for a bit . I`m Seeing a Daoshen v Alaric slugfest in the future with everyone else busy with there own issues .


except that we see Gavin's internal monologue is he wants to strengthen the fedsuns.

I've got a few theories...

1: Gavin, much like his great aunt belives the nation will be better off under him, and he'll destroy the nation to ensure he gets the nation if nesscary, Julian and Erik are his greatest compeition so he'll set them against each other in the hopes they destroy each other.

2: Gavin isn't intreasted in Julian job but wants ERIKS job. The position of Prince's Champion has a LOT of power to it, a lot of unoffical "soft power" too. anyone who wants to impliment an agenda in the fedsuns would be VERY well served by having said position. If we simply accept Gavin's words without any catches etc and he genuinly wants whats best for the fedsuns, he may wish that position for himself, and desire to accelerate Erik's fall from grace (because it's coming)

3: Gavin is hoping by manipulating an inevitable conflict he can ensure that it doesn't blow up. and instead simply is kept at a simmer through Julian's reign.
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Arkansas Warrior

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #99 on: 08 February 2023, 19:18:56 »
I liked it, all in all.  It certainly had its flaws, it wasn't the most compelling reading ever (or even recently; I really enjoyed Redemption Rites), but all in all I liked it.  I'm not sure about Gavin.  I got the impression that he might be trying to stoke Erik's pride and ambition to fast-track the inevitable confrontation (and then stab him in the back when he overreaches); better to get him to overreach quickly then for the rivalry between Erik and Julian to burn slowly for years or decades.  They should have left Alexander in captivity.  He's more use to the Suns as a drain on Taurian resources.


Biut one thing really bothered me.  This is going to get long, I'll try to remember to TL;DR it at the end.  Three times in the book, the First Prince is described as the "first among equals".  Twice in Julian's mind, once in Gavin's.  One other time Erik demands Julian treat him as "one among equals, no more and no less."  This is simply not the case.  In the Five Princes Era, all five March Lords were Princes, that's why the First Prince is called the *First* Prince, sure.  But Alexander Davion won the Davion Civil War in 2540, abolished two of the Marches, and replaced the heads of the other two, demoting them to Duke in the process.  That was 600 years ago in universe.  Let's look at how the March Lord dynasties got their seats:


Damien Hasek was appointed Duke of New Syrtis by First Prince Paull Davion II in 2829.


Raymond-Roger Marsin was appointed Duke of June and head of the newly-created Periphery March by Regent Yvonne Davion in 3079


House Sandoval is...less clear.  The old House Davion Sourcebook says the Sandovals were Dukes of Robinson by the Davion Civil War, but the definitely weren't March Lords then, the book says they were supporters of the Rostov dynasty, who ruled the Terran March from Robinson (odd that the Rostovs weren't also Dukes of Robinson, but whatever).  Tancredi IV was the capital of the Draconis March at the time, and it had a Prince named Vladimir Kerensky.  No idea if he's related to Aleksandr et al.  He apparently died without issue and was replaced by Alexander Davion's aunt Laura, who sided against her nephew in the DCW and lost.  The first Sandoval we know by name (as far as I could find) is Vasily Sandoval, Duke of Robinson as of 2731.  Not sure when they took over the March, but they have to have been appointed by a Davion First Prince during the Star League era (or immediately before, in the thin slice of time between the end of the DCW and FS joining the SL).
Edit: Handbook: House Davion says that the Sandovals "took control of the Draconis March in the wake of the Davion Civil War." So probably Alexander appointed them circa 2540.

All that to say, the March Lord families were all given their roles (and in two cases their Duchies) by Davion Princes (or a Regent, in Yvonne's case).  The First Prince is not a Primus Inter Pares.  The Prince appoints the March Lords, and can replace them if he or she needs to.  It's really odd to me that all of a sudden the First Prince is thinking of himself an equal of the March Lords.  I mean, it's "no one in power in the 3060s understood how regency or succession works" weird.  Did Julian not learn basic civics in school?  I guess maybe Gavin's been away most of his life, but he should've done some studying.  Erik, I don't know, maybe he was too busy trying to help Aaron foment revolts in a FS ally to bother learning how the government works.
« Last Edit: 08 February 2023, 19:21:53 by Arkansas Warrior »
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All Hail First Prince Melissa Davion, the Patron Saint of the Regimental Combat Team, who cowed Dainmar Liao, created the Model Army, and rescued Robinson!  May her light ever guide the sons of the Suns, May our daughters ever endeavour to emulate her!

mikecj

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #100 on: 11 February 2023, 12:48:02 »
Eh.. we've seen Davions ignorant of their own laws before... First Princess :P

And if Harrison was weak enough, the Marcher Lords probably got used to pushing the limits of their power.  Heck- look at what they did during the Jihad during the WoB false flag phases...
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abou

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #101 on: 11 February 2023, 13:31:15 »
I imagine Julian is struggling with some sort of calculus regarding removing a popular figure like Erik from power. Regardless of the actuality of Erik's abilities and accomplishments, he is very popular. And regardless of Julian's powers, it is not as clear cut as it should be. Although I personally think Julian should have let Alexander spend some more time in a Taurian prison and placed someone else as Champion or Erik's relative as Duchess of Robinson, the writers are trying to make it not so easy a decision.

What is frustrating is that we see little effort to put to the forefront Julian's successes and struggles. He fought his way from the other end of the Inner Sphere to come to the aide of his realm. He negotiated a treaty that allowed the liberation of Robinson, which is something Erik couldn't do despite being Duke of Robinson. He liberated New Syrtis, almost died twice, was severely maimed cheating death, and established a détente with the CapCon. He bided his time for the right opportunity to take New Avalon, whereas Erik wanted to rush in and possibly lose the whole game by going too early. Regardless of people's whinging about Julian's decisions, he has generally been proven right by his successes.

Yes, in the real world, both today and historically, propaganda and public perception can veer wildly off course from reality. That that has happened in BattleTech multiple times shouldn't be a surprise. However, that there was no attempt described in the book to course correct, is baffling. Julian and his team should be doing something to control the narrative. Instead they seem to be ceding ground to Erik, who is legally the junior partner.

It's stuff like that which make the book seem pretty lame. And if we didn't get any real response by Julian other than hand-wringing and a climactic battle that occurred in the first half, it didn't need to be so long.

 

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