Author Topic: Spherical dropships in atmospheric layers  (Read 719 times)

Burzmali

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Spherical dropships in atmospheric layers
« on: 19 March 2024, 06:26:15 »
This situation came up in a match I had this last weekend. In an effort to get a Union dropship down to a planet's surface, specifically the low altitude map in a hurry, I decided not to let gravity do the work and I decided to jam it nose first into the atmospheric layers. Per the rules on TW p. 80
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A spheroid unit in an atmospheric hex on the space map must end its movement facing away from the planet—meaning that its nose is facing either of the two hex-sides that point away from the planetary surface map edge—or else make an immediate Control Roll.
This led to the question of "So what happens if the dropship fails the control roll?", the rules on control rolls on TW p. 92 make it clear that you only go out of control if you meet one on the conditions on the table on p. 93 and "Spheroid dropship in wrong orientation" is not on the list, so I guess going out-of-control is unlikely. Frankly, the rules for aerospace in TW are organized horribly, especially the bit with the "Atmospheric control modifiers table" being 150 pages after the control rolls section, compared to 5 or 10 pages later on AeroTech 2. Even some modest organization and standardization (ASF in atmospheric layers losing one velocity in the End phase vs. ASF on the low altitude losing half their velocity at the beginning of their movement for instance) would go a long way.

Hellraiser

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Re: Spherical dropships in atmospheric layers
« Reply #1 on: 19 March 2024, 14:11:10 »
I understand why TW is organized the way it is.
It's to cut down on reprinting the same stuff over & over again in multiple sections.

I even understand why the ASF is in TW w/ the rest of the rules. 
They wanted 1 inclusive book.

That said, I would have preferred anything to do w/ AT to be in a separate book.
Ground Units v/s Aero is a solid split line to me where its easy to say "we aren't using that".

It would be nice to have a single book for Aero that combines everything from TW, TO, SO, & CO that gives you everything you need for using AT units from shooting while grounded on the tarmac to Marine Assaults on a Space Station to flying through an asteroid field.

Basically, EVERYTHING Aero (Intro/Standard/Advanced/Experimental) goes in 1 book.
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Daryk

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Re: Spherical dropships in atmospheric layers
« Reply #2 on: 23 March 2024, 09:58:11 »
The rules you're looking for are just a couple of pages back: pages 78-79 in TW, under "Space/Atmosphere Interface":
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If the result is equal to or higher than the target number, re-entry is successful. The unit enters its destination hex and continues its movement. If the result is less than the target number, re-entry has failed. The unit’s Velocity drops to 0 and it remains in the hex from which it tried to enter the interface; it’s movement turn is over. In addition, for each point of the margin of failure, apply 5 points of damage to the nose of the craft (see Damage, p. 238).

Burzmali

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Re: Spherical dropships in atmospheric layers
« Reply #3 on: 23 March 2024, 20:27:44 »
The rules you're looking for are just a couple of pages back: pages 78-79 in TW, under "Space/Atmosphere Interface":

No, this is after that has happened. You roll for control when you cross the interface. But after that, a spheroid deopship can be in the wrong orientation, i.e. nose not pointed up, and trigger an additional control roll. The risk of failing that control roll aren't stated, you can't end a turn, your turn is already over at that point. Taking damage to the nose might be okay, but that is a pin prick to a dropship.

Daryk

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Re: Spherical dropships in atmospheric layers
« Reply #4 on: 24 March 2024, 01:23:59 »
Ah, ok... I don't think the list on page 93 is exclusive, but the effects of being out of control seem pretty clear.  If you fail a Control Roll (which is made in the End Phase), the next turn you can't spend any thrust, might collide with any units in your hex, and take a penalty to shooting, along with losing the ability to do a short list of other things.  Plus, if you miss the roll by 5 or more, you could suffer Random Movement.  The only good news is you get to make another Control Roll to regain control in the End Phase of subsequent turns.

Burzmali

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Re: Spherical dropships in atmospheric layers
« Reply #5 on: 25 March 2024, 22:35:21 »
Ah, ok... I don't think the list on page 93 is exclusive, but the effects of being out of control seem pretty clear.  If you fail a Control Roll (which is made in the End Phase), the next turn you can't spend any thrust, might collide with any units in your hex, and take a penalty to shooting, along with losing the ability to do a short list of other things.  Plus, if you miss the roll by 5 or more, you could suffer Random Movement.  The only good news is you get to make another Control Roll to regain control in the End Phase of subsequent turns.

That's fair, but pg 92 doesn't leave much room to read it that way:
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Some game mechanics use Control Rolls to determine success or failure of an action, rather than determining whether or not a unit is out of control. The Control Roll actions that may result in the unit going “out of control” are shown in the Situation column of the Control Roll Table.
that reads that for a control roll to result in an out of control state, it needs to be on the table on pg 93.

Daryk

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Re: Spherical dropships in atmospheric layers
« Reply #6 on: 26 March 2024, 03:16:34 »
Except for the other places in the book (like you found) that give other circumstances... you may want to try the rule forum.

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Re: Spherical dropships in atmospheric layers
« Reply #7 on: 04 April 2024, 00:59:41 »
++RULES TEAM++

While we usually don't weigh in on questions that aren't actually submitted to the rules forum, this one came to our attention.

Per current rules, a spheroid at High Altitude that does not end its movement in a nose-up orientation must make a control roll. If it succeeds, the next turn it may move normally according to the player's wishes, but will continue having to roll in every turn it does not end nose-up. If it fails, it will continue to move along its current path per the normal rules for out-of-control units, eventually slowing down due to drag and falling, if control is never regained.

All spheroid vessels, regardless of status, are automatically placed in a nose-up orientation when they move to the Low Altitude Map(or Ground Map if Low Altitude is not being used), the game system simply does not permit them to operate any other way. Vessels that are out-of-control when this happens retain that status, and players are advised to regain control, otherwise a crash is likely imminent.
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Daryk

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Re: Spherical dropships in atmospheric layers
« Reply #8 on: 04 April 2024, 03:20:11 »
Thanks Weirdo!

 

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