Author Topic: PanzerGrenadiers?  (Read 1506 times)

Black_Knyght

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PanzerGrenadiers?
« on: 16 October 2018, 13:45:43 »
I'd like to add an infantry unit very similar to Germany's PanzerGrenadiers (especially their more modern incarnation) to my mercenary unit, but I'm not terribly familiar with HOW infantry work, HOW to write them up properly, or HOW the list them properly in my TO&E.

Can anyone from the brilliant hivemind here help me with this?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzergrenadier
« Last Edit: 16 October 2018, 14:20:33 by Black_Knyght »

Sartris

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Re: PanzerGrenadiers?
« Reply #1 on: 16 October 2018, 14:09:38 »
i'm not a WWII nut, but based on the writeup you're looking for half-track mounted troops, which would be mechanized infantry (TW pg 23; infantry chapter). You can use MML to customize to give them some squad weapons that allow better damage and range to represent their anti-tank capabilities.

In a combined arms battalion, you might have 6 of these platoons (two companies of three platoons) plus a company of tank destroyer-type units like Hetzers.

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Brakiel

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Re: PanzerGrenadiers?
« Reply #2 on: 16 October 2018, 14:10:33 »
At Total Warfare scale, I think it all gets subsumed under motorized or mechanized infantry. If you have Total Warfare, check the Infantry section (for my copy, it's pages 212-217).

TRO 3085 also introduced some special conventional infantry for each of the factions, each with some differing stats. See if any of those tickle your fancy.

Empyrus

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Re: PanzerGrenadiers?
« Reply #3 on: 16 October 2018, 14:18:53 »
Simplest way to represent similar infantry unit would be mix of motorized rifle and SRM infantry, or mechanized (tracked or wheeled) equivalents. How large is your unit? A simple company of infantry could be two platoons of rifle and one platoon of SRM infantry, type as fits your ideas best.

These are included in Total Warfare book by default (spread across several tables, BV can be acquired from MUL if relevant, eg Motorized SRM platoon), so you don't need to make anything if you don't mind using generic infantry, just copy relevant data to infantry record sheet.
I think there used to be pre-filled generic infantry record sheets available but if they still are, i can't find them.

Alternatively TRO 3085 and its Supplemental contain a lot of more elaborate pre-made infantry, some might suit your needs.

Infantry use is pretty simple. They may have variety of weapons and whatever else, but in practice all those are condensed into single damage value (with pretty arbitrary maximum range) that degrades as the infantry unit takes damage (1 damage=one dead trooper). They take a lot of damage easily too.
Type determines movement speed and terrain restrictions but is very abstracted. Mechanzied infantry can move into buildings for example. Weapons can also have restrictions, SRM foot infantry for example can only move or attack, not both due to encumbering nature of their weapons.

In standard play infantry moves by platoons, which is kinda silly from realism perspective, but then again they're not focus of this game at all. Tactical Operations has rules for squad-based on infantry (basically you make several smaller infantry "platoons" that are more difficult to hit).

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20252.0.html
This article goes into more in-depth about infantry. Might be useful.
Also as reminder, infantry rules start on page 212 or thereabouts in Total Warfare.

truetanker

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Re: PanzerGrenadiers?
« Reply #4 on: 16 October 2018, 14:53:09 »
Well to represent this, what year / era?

I have a very updated TechManual-v3.0-Infantry-Tables.

Includes all the goodies from several books that have recently come out:

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzergrenadier scroll down to Germany under Operators.

G39-M16/AK74M - Auto-Rifle IS / Clan (C) Small / Standard (B) 1 0.52 4.0 kg / 0.48 kg (30/2) 1

MILAN/Spike-ATGM - Missile Launcher (Wire-Guided) IS / CLAN (C) Medium / Support (M) 2 1.08 95.0 KG / 22.0 KG (1) 4 ( AToWC )

MG3 - Machine Gun (Minigun Vintage) IS / Clan (C) Medium / Support (B) 2 0.81 21.0 KG / 12.0 KG (500/10) 2 ( AToWC )


Now consider that a standard IS Infantry Squad has 7 troopers, This requires 4 troopers with Auto-Riles, a 5th AR helping to move the vintage Mini, the Mini's gunner, 6th. Finally needing only four to set up a WG missile launcher, where you'd only need one to fire, 7th.

And for the elusive " Halftrack ", http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rock_Rover
Which includes a Support Laser
Support Laser IS / Clan (D) Medium / Support (E) 3 0.84 72.0 kg / 3 kg (15) 2

and adds 2 Pintle Mounted Auto-Rifles, one each side
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Pintle_Mount

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Colt Ward

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Re: PanzerGrenadiers?
« Reply #5 on: 16 October 2018, 15:26:46 »
Personally I dislike the motorized/mechanized abstract infantry because I like the detail of APC/ISV/IFVs in BT- or even some of the trucks to load foot infantry into for rapid movement.  I also have some annoyance b/c of how when I used the military term mechanized infantry due to the way the rules are set up folks do not automatically know if I am talking about the abstract rules or assign platoons/squads of infantry to heavy APC/APC.  As a wargamer I want the granularity of knowing what the vehicle is so that it can be countered or I can take advantage of its specific bonuses- IMO there is also the doctrine differences between mechanized infantry and infantry riding around in a tracked APC-type vehicle.  Plus even mechanized infantry does not move as fast as some of the vehicle options nor have the armor to get the cargo to the place you need it to go.

With that said, infantry rules, options and transport has come a long way from what it was when BMR(r) new and offers a lot more options.
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Eisenwolf

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Re: PanzerGrenadiers?
« Reply #6 on: 16 October 2018, 15:33:54 »
Wouldn't the Goblin from TRO 3039 be a good substitute for the Marder / Puma modern PanzGren use as mounted vehicles? They still hold only a Squad of Infantry like both vehicles but are able to support them effectively in their supposed mission.

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Re: PanzerGrenadiers?
« Reply #7 on: 16 October 2018, 15:43:54 »
Part of the break down is that most canon vehicles are built to move platoons as that is the basic rules level infantry group- which means you roll together 3 of what would be IRL troop carriers.

Some of the smaller vehicles like the Pack Rat or the later Thang-Ta reflect more IRL squad transports.
Colt Ward
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Sartris

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Re: PanzerGrenadiers?
« Reply #8 on: 16 October 2018, 15:53:38 »
there is the Goblin II with a 3 ton platoon bay

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Re: PanzerGrenadiers?
« Reply #9 on: 16 October 2018, 16:06:31 »
Do you want your Panzergrenadiers to fight on the move and keep up with your tanks and mechs? Then you want tracked mechanized infantry.

Do you want your infantry to ride into battle but do their fighting on foot, doing foot-troop-y stuff like digging in to foxholes, kneecapping mechs, or entering buildings using doors? Then you want foot infantry, transported by the tracked vehicle of your choice. And at its most basic, a Hanomag can easily be represented by a basic tracked APC (or heavy APC if squad deployment is too much of a pain for you like it is with me). You'll note that both APC types come in a variety of variants, allowing you to similarly represent variants of the Hanomag. :)
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Black_Knyght

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Re: PanzerGrenadiers?
« Reply #10 on: 16 October 2018, 21:06:23 »
Well to represent this, what year / era?

Doh!, I probably should've mention THAT detail right off the start - They're to be set in 3075

truetanker

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Re: PanzerGrenadiers?
« Reply #11 on: 16 October 2018, 21:11:29 »
Well that Rock Rover I suggested does have a twin from House Kurita, swaps out the Support Laser for a SRM launcher... still paired Pintle Mounted ARs tho.

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Black_Knyght

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Re: PanzerGrenadiers?
« Reply #12 on: 16 October 2018, 21:12:03 »
Playing around based on earlier suggestions with MegaMekLab, this is my rough initial effort at creating a 3075 PanzerGrenadier (please feel free to politely let me know where I went wrong or how to better work it up  ;) )

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=63228.new#new

 

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