Clan colors and indiviualization?

[Black_Knyght]

An odd friendly debate cropped up in our gaming session today, and I thought I'd post bits of it here for thoughts and opinions from the group-mind here.

Firstly, one line of thought says that ALL Clan units (Stars, Galaxies, Keshiks, etc.) have an officially designated "canon" color scheme, while another line of thought says most Clan units (Stars, Galaxies, Keshiks, etc.) have official "canon" color schemes but not ALL of them do.

Personally, I don't know either way for certain, so here it is for discussion


Secondly, one line of thought says that ALL Clan machines must have the officially designated "canon" color scheme, while another line of thought says that some Clan individuals paint their machines in a personalized color scheme instead of using the "canon" color schemes.

Interestingly the second line of thought is somewhat supported by official Battletech artwork, such as the tiger striped Elemental armor for example. Also supposedly by various references in Battletech novels.

Personally, though I tend to lean a bit towards the second line of thought but I don't know either way for certain, so here it is for discussion

[jimdigris]

It's hard to ignore the official unit paint scheme when the quartermaster only ships the unit certain colors.  Many units use appropriate camo when the situation calls for it- especially against the Inner Sphere.

[Decoy]

In general, the higher up you are in clan society, the more lee way you're allowed.


Freeborn MechWarrior? Your machine is painted in whatever your commander prefers.

Trueborn MechWarrior? Your machine is painted in whatever your commander prefers BUT you can probably get away with some small flourishes if they honor your clan, unit , or blood house.

Trueborn Ristar, Officer, or Bloodnamed Warrior? Your machine is painted in whatever you wish it to be, although your commander probably has some strong suggestions.

[Hellraiser]

Nasty K. kind of gives you an example of someone coming up with their own colors/symbol in defiance of convention.


Then again, she was Nasty K. & good luck coming up with someone matching that kind of performance.


Billy Joe Jim Bob Radick isn't likely going get away with using Widowmaker symbols & painting your mechs in traditional colors of another clan.

[VensersRevenge]

If you can beat your superior in a trial over the colour scheme, then you have the right to use it. It's the Clans, so might makes right.

[Psycho]

while another line of thought says most Clan units (Stars, Galaxies, Keshiks, etc.) have official "canon" color schemes but not ALL of them do.

This is currently correct. Schemes are primarily set by Galaxy. Keshiks will typically have their own schemes, though the extent of these varies from Clan to Clan. For example, the Cobras only field Keshiks for their khan and sakhan, while the Wolves include one as a command element with each Galaxy. There are a few examples of Clusters deviating from the Galaxy standard, but this is rare and certainly not the norm. Schemes may have been written in by an author of a Clan's section in FM:Crusader or Warden Clans. Others are canonized through CSO. There may be a few that have been canonized by authors in other places. That is the extent of schemes being canon. Hitting the Wolves again for an example, with the increased touman of 3145, the newly raised Galaxies do not have a canon scheme at this time. The author did not include scheme descriptions, and they have not been generated by CSO yet.

An art piece on its own does not constitute a canon scheme (tiger striped Wolves, colour plates in the original TRO:3055, etc). That's the out-of-universe line in the sand.

I should also note here that you seem to be merging the ideas of canon and in-universe. They are not the same. The Wolves Mu Galaxy currently does not have a canon scheme. If I or another CSO member works up a scheme for Mu that is accepted, then it will be the canon scheme for the unit, across the unit's entire existence. Unless other information explicitly says otherwise, it is reasonable to assume that in-universe the component units of Mu have a set scheme that they all use, even though a canon scheme does not yet exist. The same applies to any other currently un-described unit.

The aspect of role-playing or "whatever works for your game" is a different path. Canon says you follow the scheme. RPing a duel to decorate your 'Mech with dramatic flourishes, or just deciding you don't like the canon scheme and will do something different is fine. It's not canon, but neither is anything else you're playing out for your own enjoyment. Don't get stuck on canon if it hinders your enjoyment of the game. It's there for a framework and common reference, not to be a straight-jacket.

[grimlock1]

Fighters in the US Navy have their squadron logos other markings painted in a subdued color, except the CAG.  The Cag's plane can have full color art on the vertical stabilizer and a couple other places.

So there is precedent for ranking having privileges.   In Clan society, it's not just rank, it could be reputation.  If a warrior is building a rep as a ristar, a sponsor in their blood house might display their favor by authorizing a custom paint job.

Also, the tiger stripe elemental might have actually been practical camo, depending on the location, although the stripes are going in the wrong direction....

[Black_Knyght]

One additional unrelated note I've been asked to...ask...about (LOL):

One of our player's (Tim) wants to paint up a Jade Falcon "Cluster" or "Galaxy", using a base of jade green with silver/steel highlights. I am to ask if there is already a specific Jade Falcon unit using those colors, or if not should he just designate them as some unofficial unit (like what I have no clue).

THIS question is independent of the debate questions, however.

[Valkerie]

Zeta Galaxy uses jade green with light gray highlights.  Would that work for him?

[Scotty]

One additional unrelated note I've been asked to...ask...about (LOL):

One of our player's (Tim) wants to paint up a Jade Falcon "Cluster" or "Galaxy", using a base of jade green with silver/steel highlights. I am to ask if there is already a specific Jade Falcon unit using those colors, or if not should he just designate them as some unofficial unit (like what I have no clue).

THIS question is independent of the debate questions, however.

Already hit on, Zeta Galaxy is the closest you'll get.  The scheme in question was also used for Jade Falcon units in the click-tech game, so there's plenty of supporting examples.

Clusters in Zeta Galaxy include (at various times):

2nd Falcon Dragoons
3rd Falcon Velites
10th Talon
53rd Battle
74th Battle
109th Striker

[Psycho]

One additional unrelated note I've been asked to...ask...about (LOL):

One of our player's (Tim) wants to paint up a Jade Falcon "Cluster" or "Galaxy", using a base of jade green with silver/steel highlights. I am to ask if there is already a specific Jade Falcon unit using those colors, or if not should he just designate them as some unofficial unit (like what I have no clue).

THIS question is independent of the debate questions, however.

In addition to the answers already given, you can point Tim to the CSO website. While real-life issues have impeded a full re-build, most of the galleries still exist: http://www.camospecs.com/

If nothing else, it could offer ideas on schemes.

[Alex Keller]

From the Wolf Clan Sourcebook, page 91, para 2:

"Galaxy Commander Mikel Furey is a tall, handsome man, with a large, bushy mustache, a flair for flowery phrases, and a love for antique weapons, particularly Sabres. It is well known that he allows his warriors greater liberties than do most other Galaxies and that he favors his warriors over all other casts under hi command. Only Gamma Galaxy warriors are allowed to paint their vehicles and Battle Armor as they wish, a tradition of the Sixteenth. [...]"

My conclusion is that even under more liberal commanders,  mechs must conform to galaxy standards. But commanders still have authority to grant the privilege of custom colors.

[glitterboy2098]

speaking in a doylist sense, there is something of an informal hierarchy regarding color schemes.
there will usually be a generic national scheme for a faction. barring mention otherwise, units will usually be in either that scheme or appropriate camouflage for the environment.
some Galaxies/Regiments have specific schemes of their own, used instead of the faction scheme. sometimes these can be wildly different than the faction scheme.
sometimes smaller units (battalions/clusters) will have separate schemes even from their parent galaxy/regiment. again these can sometimes be wildly different.

at each level, there is room for customization. such as the exact placement and amount of the 'accent' colors, the inclusion of non-scheme colors, markings, etc. as long as the unit is recognizable as being part of that unit, it should work from both doylist and Watsonian perspectives. in inner sphere units, especially during the succession wars when the "mechwarrior noble" with their family 'mechs were a big thing, you probably saw a lot of individuality, especially for those with higher rank in either the miltiary or the nobility.


in the clans it is likely that markings and logos are the most common forms of individualization. "nose art" so to speak. someone who is a ristar or high ranking can probably get away with adding a an extra 'accent color' to the official scheme. the clans probably would not go in for really exotic personal schemes the way you get in the IS sometimes.

[Vition2]

Eh, if he's actually going to be painting up a full cluster, he'd better like the paint job he's going to do for it, so I would encourage him to use whatever he found interesting.  Now I would also encourage him to them them appropriately, so a Jade Falcon unit would likely include a lot of green (any green, imo, so lime green would work as well as olive or forest greens), but primary grays or blacks would work nearly as well.

Since I'd be painting up a good bit of minis, I'd consider slight changes between binaries or trinaries too, simply to give some added variety.

[qc mech3]

Don't forget units like Clan Hell Horses' Iota Galaxy who use colors as a big middle finger to the clan.

Ultimately, it depend on who's the most stuckup with colors: you or your clan?  :P :lol:

[jimdigris]

If the Clan doesn't stock the desired color, then the warrior who desires a custom scheme will have to task a merchant with identifying a nearby Clan that does.  Once a source is determined, the warrior will have to declare a trial of possession for the paint.  Assuming he or she wins, they will have to wait for their techs to rebuild the damage to their mech before the new scheme is applied.

[Black_Knyght]

Okay, our player (Tim) wants to ask the opinions of folks here about the "fictional within fictional" (?) Jade Falcon Galaxy he's decided to create, and some of the as-of-3075 data for it he's worked up based on what I showed him here. According to him ALL units here should be unique and not officially used anywhere else or in any other Jade Falcon unit.

(Not sure what it is he's looking for, but here it is)

==========

Theta Galaxy (Clan Jade Falcon)

Code: [Select]

Theta Galaxy (Clan Jade Falcon)

3049    -    At this point in time the commanding officer of Theta Galaxy was saKhan Janelle Loudon; his military aide was Star Colonel Gann Roshak.

    Fourth Falcon Jaegers
    Eighth Falcon Hussars
    Eleventh Talon
    Fifteenth Falcon Regulars
    Fifth Falcon Hussars
    First Falcon Hussars
    Seventeenth Talon
    Tau Solahma Cluster
    Tenth Falcon Regulars
   

3075    -    At this point in time the commanding officer of Theta Galaxy is saKhan Quenton Malthus; his military aide was Star Colonel Tomen Calbot.

    Fourth Falcon Jaegers
    Eighth Falcon Hussars
    Eleventh Talon
    Fifteenth Falcon Regulars
    Fifth Falcon Hussars
    Sixth Falcon Jaegers
    Sixty-Third Garrison Cluster
    Tenth Falcon Regulars
    Twenty-First Battle Cluster


Color Scheme: Theta Galaxy uses a jade green base coat with silver and dark steel grey highlights. The Theta Galaxy emblem is prominently displayed on the left torso of 'Mechs or the left wing of aerospace fighters.

Insignia: Theta Galaxy's insignia is a silvery silhouette of a jade falcon against a dark steel moon.

[Vition2]

First impression: That's a BIG Galaxy, I mean 9 Clusters is a lot.  (Though I'll admit, my non-canon clan galaxies are about the same number of points - but I continue with the base 5 stuff higher than canon does)

Looking a bit closer, Tau Solahma Cluster should probably be Theta Solahma.  And, at least in the early Invasion period, there was very often an Eyrie cluster.

[Scotty]

Yeah, that's big.  Really big.  Almost double the size of a full-strength front-line Galaxy.  And there's only one saKhan in a Clan, so inventing a Galaxy whole-cloth for the saKhan to command is going to step on some toes (I want to say canon Gamma?).

The 8th Falcon Hussars are a unit in Vau Galaxy in the Dark Age.  First Falcon Hussars are Sigma Galaxy in 3056, then Gamma Galaxy in 3059 and 3067.

[jklantern]

Man, I think there are some CLANS that wound up smaller than that Galaxy.

[Hellraiser]

If you can beat your superior in a trial over the colour scheme, then you have the right to use it. It's the Clans, so might makes right.

I see this all the time & yet I completely disagree.

What "superior" is that?

Paint Schemes are for Galaxies (Sometimes Clusters/Keshiks).

MW JimBob beating his Star Commander?

So you beat your Star Commander only to have your Star Captain come down & reprimand you both for being so juvenile as to need your own special snowflake paint scheme.

Beat your Star Captain?  Okay, now your Star Colonel sees this mech not in Cluster Colors & wants to know WTH is going on.

The Clans are a Military, and Trials still have to be approved by someone with the power to make the change you want made.

They are designed to limit warfare to specific goals/terms, not to let you get into a fist fight every time you disagree with an order, LOL.

I can only imagine a military where everyone has a say & if you don't like your assignment you can just declare a trial to go do whatever the heck you want to do instead, that way leads chaos & madness, no thanks.

[Hellraiser]

Code: [Select]

Theta Galaxy (Clan Jade Falcon)

3049    -    At this point in time the commanding officer of Theta Galaxy was saKhan Janelle Loudon; his military aide was Star Colonel Gann Bailey.

    Tau Solahma Cluster
[/quote]

Am I the only one that things it odd that the [b]Tau[/b] Solahma Cluster is in [b]Theta[/b] galaxy?

[Hellraiser]

Zeta was mentioned already.

http://www.camospecs.com/Unit/Details/546/zeta-galaxy

Zeta Galaxy
Turkina's Beak

The galaxy utilizes a parade scheme of jade green and light gray.

One other option to consider for his paint scheme that is close is Omega.

Clan Jade Falcon
Omega Galaxy
employs a scheme of metallic emerald green on top and a steel finish on the lower halves of their equipment.
This symbolizes Jade Falcon`s superiority over Steel Viper.
Red paint is splattered on the feet and shins of their 'Mechs to indicate their intentions with the Viper Clan

http://www.camospecs.com/Unit/Details/542/omega-galaxy

[Black_Knyght]

Okay, our player (Tim) asked to express his thanx and has made select modifications based on your input here. No clue who any Jade Falcon saKhans or their aides were for the designated time periods. Also he asks what else should be added/changed here?

I don't deal with the clans personally, so I have no clue what to say or advise.

==========

Theta Galaxy (Clan Jade Falcon)

Code: [Select]

Theta Galaxy (Clan Jade Falcon)

3049    -    At this point in time the commanding officer is Galaxy Commander Janelle Loudon. Her aide is Star Colonel Gann Roshak.

    Eleventh Falcon Grenadiers
    Fifteenth Falcon Regulars
    Fifth Falcon Hussars
    Fourth Falcon Jaegers
    Harrier Eyrie Cluster
    Theta Solahma Cluster
   

3075    -    At this point in time the commanding officer is Galaxy Commander Quenton Malthus. His aide is Star Colonel Tomen Calbot.

    Eleventh Falcon Grenadiers
    Fifth Falcon Hussars
    Fourth Falcon Jaegers
    Sixty-Third Garrison Cluster
    Twenty-First Battle Cluster


Color Scheme: Theta Galaxy uses a dark jade green base coat with silver and dark steel grey highlights. The Theta Galaxy emblem is prominently displayed on the left torso of 'Mechs or the left wing of aerospace fighters.

Insignia: Theta Galaxy's insignia is a silvery silhouette of a jade falcon against a dark steel moon.

[marauder648]

One thought, considering how very individualistic Clan Warriors tend to be, you could probably argue a case for allowing for a Mech to be painted in pretty much what ever scheme their Warrior wanted.  Think the Red Baron's Flying Circus kind of idea, each Mech's painted to its own warrior preferences.  Some might go for a proper camo or even a non-standard one, others might go for mix of colours and markings.

Sure you could have some 'dress' paint scheme's or set ones for a Keshik but you could let your warriors go nuts.  If Star Captain Kevin wants his Summoner to be pink and black, go right ahead. Warrior Sara wants her Kit Fox painted a solid blood red with black feet/arms, sure!

[Vition2]

Really, in the 3049 time period he could probably get away with a 7 Cluster galaxy, as long as he included both a Solahma and Eyrie cluster (both of which were often significantly under-strength), especially if his galaxy is being included in the invasion - the Falcons brought some of their Eyrie clusters along to blood their young warriors and to reconstitute losses from already blooded warriors.  Meanwhile, the Solahma were there to give old warriors an "honorable death" and used as little more than canon fodder shock troops.

In the 3075 time period the Eyrie cluster likely goes away, they seem to typically be designated to 2nd-line formations (just by looking at the TO&E of various Field Manuals).

[klarg1]

Okay, our player (Tim) wants to ask the opinions of folks here about the "fictional within fictional" (?) Jade Falcon Galaxy he's decided to create, and some of the as-of-3075 data for it he's worked up based on what I showed him here. According to him ALL units here should be unique and not officially used anywhere else or in any other Jade Falcon unit.

(Not sure what it is he's looking for, but here it is)

It sounds like (Tim) has pretty strong opinions on how to approach painting a clan unit. Whether that fits in your game or not is up to your group; all we can really do here is supply information of the official canon colors for the clan and its known, canon units. If the goal is to come up with a new, non-canon, scheme for a non-canon unit, CSO online is the place to go for information on what already exists.

Has the information provided so far been helpful?

[Black_Knyght]

How one of our players paints their miniatures is not really an issue for us, in general. We discuss and debate things, but miniatures are more of a personal choice for each of our players.

For example, Tim is really into Clans Jade Falcon and Diamond Shark, Jerry is a diehard Lyranista, and I'm not much into the Clans or House units so I prefer painting my mine as a merc force. We're all good with whatever in the end.

[Bren]

Also he asks what else should be added/changed here?

Is there a reason for the 'grenadier' units? Not something you find in Jade Falcon.

[Black_Knyght]

Is there a reason for the 'grenadier' units? Not something you find in Jade Falcon.

Not sure, but I'll ask

[klarg1]

How one of our players paints their miniatures is not really an issue for us, in general. We discuss and debate things, but miniatures are more of a personal choice for each of our players.

For example, Tim is really into Clans Jade Falcon and Diamond Shark, Jerry is a diehard Lyranista, and I'm not much into the Clans or House units so I prefer painting my mine as a merc force. We're all good with whatever in the end.

All good.

I suppose, to contradict my last post, we could also debate color theory and aesthetics. For my own part, I think my favorite Falcon schemes are probably Delta and Zeta galaxies. (Vau is also cool, but wants for the Falcon green.)

[Black_Knyght]

Is there a reason for the 'grenadier' units? Not something you find in Jade Falcon.

Okay, asked and Tim's response was he thought it sounded good for a heavy firepower kind of unit AND didn't realize the JF's didn't use that specific term. He asks what would be a better name , that's not already in use, for such a unit as that?

[phoenixalpha]

As an aside, it would be completely wasteful for an individual MechWarrior to have a custom paintjob as most mechwarriors (in Clan space) are assigned mechs or loadouts based upon the mission at hand, so whilst having a custom paintjob (say bright green feathers on a JF mech) might look cool, you'd need to paint every possible variant and loadout the same, and have them all to hand at any given time which would be a huge waste of time for the technicians.

[Vition2]

Okay, asked and Tim's response was he thought it sounded good for a heavy firepower kind of unit AND didn't realize the JF's didn't use that specific term. He asks what would be a better name , that's not already in use, for such a unit as that?

Talon Clusters are the equivalent of "Assault" clusters, so these would be the heavy hitter - though they also use the generic Assault Cluster designation.  The 11th seems to work fine, the only cluster I can find with that number after a very quick look is a garrison cluster.

[Black_Knyght]

Okay, yet another change by Tim based on your helpful suggestions. Also, he asks if there's any additional information, background, or officer stuff he should add to his Theta Galaxy to better round it out or finish it?

==========

Theta Galaxy (Clan Jade Falcon)

Code: [Select]

Theta Galaxy (Clan Jade Falcon)

3049    -    At this point in time the commanding officer is Galaxy Commander Janelle Loudon. Her aide is Star Colonel Gann Roshak.

    Eleventh Falcon Grenadiers
    Fifteenth Falcon Regulars
    Fifth Falcon Hussars
    Fourth Falcon Jaegers
    Harrier Eyrie Cluster
    Theta Solahma Cluster
   

3075    -    At this point in time the commanding officer is Galaxy Commander Quenton Malthus. His aide is Star Colonel Tomen Calbot.

    Eleventh Talon Cluster
    Fifth Falcon Hussars
    Fourth Falcon Jaegers
    Sixty-Third Garrison Cluster
    Twenty-First Battle Cluster


Color Scheme: Theta Galaxy uses a dark jade green base coat with silver and dark steel grey highlights. The Theta Galaxy emblem is prominently displayed on the left torso of 'Mechs or the left wing of aerospace fighters.

Insignia: Theta Galaxy's insignia is a silvery silhouette of a jade falcon against a dark steel moon.