Author Topic: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?  (Read 6736 times)

Black_Knyght

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Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« on: 09 October 2018, 13:26:23 »
I'm kinda of curious just how often players here utilize conventional aircraft as combat assets? Not VTOLs, or even basic Transport aircraft, but actual conventional combat aircraft in any combat role? And if so, what specific types and how do you best utilize them?

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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #1 on: 09 October 2018, 14:10:29 »
If you load up a MechBuster with flechette ammo you'll find that infantry want to stay hidden.
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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #2 on: 09 October 2018, 14:24:24 »
If you load up a MechBuster with flechette ammo you'll find that infantry want to stay hidden.

Quote

This is the only appropriate reaction image i have to this.



Now, i don't really play with vehicles, much less with aerospace stuff, but i've got an impression from various articles etc. that conventional fighters tend to be treated as disposable things. And bomb-trucks. Basically they force people to react and/or make their lives miserable for few seconds, then the planes are shot down.

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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #3 on: 09 October 2018, 15:03:16 »
I went with a mixed squadron doing a bombing pass on a pair of companies- 4 mechs, some work mechs, 2 lances of armor, lance of scout vehs, and a company of infantry in flatbed trucks.  It was to test bombs & RL pods in MM to see what happened . . .

Two conventional fighters had heavy damage but flew off.  One of the armed workmechs became a crater, one mech took a hip hit, tank was immobilized, and I think another two were destroyed.  They hit the enemy force in a route march rather than being spread out in movement to contact.

I used some Rubvogels, Boeing Jump Bombers, I think Katyas, some Guardians and other strike fighters.  Might have only sent 8, I cannot clearly remember- it was a topic on here.
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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #4 on: 09 October 2018, 15:10:32 »
I use a pair of Guardians with my shitbox militia battalion, they work OK in BattleTech but are pretty killer in Alpha Strike. 
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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #5 on: 09 October 2018, 15:19:00 »
Main thing is, do not loiter . . . come in, drop your load and then GTFO back to base to re-arm for the next strike.

I still want to see what happens when a limited number of ASF brought to the fight by dropships they are escorting to landing run into a bunch of CFs carrying Light AAM.  Or CFs armed with Plasma Canon for superiority work.  Then perhaps more CF carrying loads of RL pods to pummel any Dropships trying to land.
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AlphaMirage

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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #6 on: 10 October 2018, 05:56:36 »
Main thing is, do not loiter . . . come in, drop your load and then GTFO back to base to re-arm for the next strike.

Million Times Plus this, Conventional Fighters cannot take a hit.  Wait till their targets are engaged at close range with something unpleasant (preferably something within the medium range of an AC/20) then attack and get off the board evading his fellows.  If they are still around circle back and wait for that to happen again (abstract RADAR map from TacOps? is your friend)

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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #7 on: 10 October 2018, 21:34:54 »
maximize bombs-per-bv

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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #8 on: 10 October 2018, 23:23:49 »
Not really a "Merc" unit asset, or even a Line House unit.

More planetary guard stuff.

They can't tangle with more than 1 fighter, if even that, and the best use of them, as stated above, is to do some high altitude bombing.

For fluff they also make great recon assets.

I don't think I've ever used one in an actual game & the only time I ever considered having them on the TO&E is when I simply didn't have enough ASF (4) to fill out the Cubicles of an Overlord & considered adding a pair of conventional fighters just to have as much air power as I could.
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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #9 on: 10 October 2018, 23:37:18 »
They are fine for merc or line units, but IMO its not for raids- its for planetary invasions.

To operate, you will need a place for them to land.  They will have to be unloaded from cargo and prepped . . . or you stuck them in a ASF/SC bay instead of one of those craft.

Honestly depends on your play/game style . . . I do war-game style personally, so they have a place.
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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #10 on: 11 October 2018, 03:53:37 »
Mech Buster with Precision Ammo can get nasty but you have to target relatively lightly armed targets along the corners or edges of the map otherwise you invite a lawn dart issue .

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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #11 on: 11 October 2018, 06:49:56 »
They are a fast quick and cheap attack unit. With the lack of armor they have become kinda useless for a good ground attack plane. Now they are about 1/10 as much as a aerospace fighter and even cheaper compared to mechs. I would try to swarm units and run away the best you can.
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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #12 on: 11 October 2018, 11:20:44 »
If you load up a MechBuster with flechette ammo you'll find that infantry want to stay hidden.
Mech Buster with Precision Ammo can get nasty but you have to target relatively lightly armed targets along the corners or edges of the map otherwise you invite a lawn dart issue .

Illegal. Aero units(conventional fighters included) can never use alternate ammo.
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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #13 on: 11 October 2018, 11:24:24 »
Illegal. Aero units(conventional fighters included) can never use alternate ammo.

They can with...

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Colt Ward

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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #14 on: 11 October 2018, 12:08:53 »
What does the Plasma Cannon do to buildings?

Cause I think a conventional fighter armed with a single Plasma Cannon rigged out to be a bomb truck would make a great Sea Fox export in the 3100s.  Melt armor, battle armor, fry infantry and do whatever to buildings . . .

IMO, conventional fighters suffer the spotlight penalties of ASF, just multiplied.  The game is about stomping robots . . . ASF are kept trimmed back by rules (lawn dart HO!) and fluff (harder to find pilots than mechwarriors) because they (like warships) have the power to break the universe setting.  We rarely see ASF in fiction and outside of TF Serpent boarding operations I am not sure of Small Craft in action- let alone the armed gunships like Tigress and Aquarius/Lyons.  Conventional Fighters would be the militia equivalent of ASF, and thus get even less time in fiction . . . so they act in the background, just like the swarms of light & medium armor along with plain infantry.

I also think its a excellent reason for AA vehicles, and to have them stationed with any field repair base . . .

 . . . imagine how annoying it would be to be sitting under a tarp eating a meal from the field kitchen while the techs reload your mechs ammo bins (hence wide open breaches in armor) and repair armor only to hear the jet engines of a Meteor Strike Fighter before it came roaring in at tree top level.  The big gun in the nose going BRRRRAAPPPPPPPP at your mech in the gantry as it scattered SRMs, inferno bombs and rockets across the field base.  Staying at tree top level the fighter-bomber scooted out between a gap in the hills . . . all before the four Vedette LBX could even slew their cannons around to fire at the intruder.


Actually, interesting point . . . would you rather have a Conventional Fighter playing the Wild Weasel role for bombing strikes, or a ASF?  The more disposable craft would keep the more valuable ASF from being as damaged or even lost.
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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #15 on: 11 October 2018, 12:53:20 »
Illegal. Aero units(conventional fighters included) can never use alternate ammo.

Plus, for anti-infantry you can just drop a bomb on their hex.
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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #16 on: 11 October 2018, 16:27:11 »
Illegal. Aero units(conventional fighters included) can never use alternate ammo.
I was extremely disappointed when I first learned of that.  It put a bit of a damper on my... more ambitious ideas.

Wasn't the Angel strike fighter fluffed to be dangerous with inferno ammo in TRO 3039?

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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #17 on: 11 October 2018, 16:54:53 »
Wasn't the Angel strike fighter fluffed to be dangerous with inferno ammo in TRO 3039?

More than a few times something that's fluffed doesn't coincide with how the rules are actually written. :D

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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #18 on: 11 October 2018, 17:30:16 »
Illegal. Aero units(conventional fighters included) can never use alternate ammo.
Can I ask where and when that was stated, note it been a while since I got use Aero Units, so I might have missed that change.

And do Conventional Aircraft have a place, yep.  Mostly with Planetary Militia Units and some of the Cargo Units in your support forces, if you are planning on being on the planet a while.  Otherwise most Merc and house units would be better served by Aerospace Designs, which mostly will eat Conventionals for lunch snack and survive better on the battlefield and VTOLs. 
that being said I once saw a pair of my Sabres get bounced by a single Mechbuster,who the 1st time they knew was when a AC20 round smack it in the rear and it didn't end well for that Sabre.  Of course the Mechbuster didn't make it back either as the other Sabre played cat and mouse with it, dart out of range when lost init, and closing in for safe shooting when won it.
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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #19 on: 11 October 2018, 17:44:18 »
Can I ask where and when that was stated, note it been a while since I got use Aero Units, so I might have missed that change.

Total War, when it first came out.
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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #20 on: 11 October 2018, 20:57:07 »
Total War, when it first came out.
Thanks, that means no more Infernos SRM strike from the air
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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #21 on: 11 October 2018, 23:24:44 »
That's what Inferno bombs are for.

Also, fun fact: Sprayers are not weapons. Since the rule in question does specify weapons, aeros can load their sprayer tanks with whatever they want. Yes, I checked with the Rules Forum on this. :)
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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #22 on: 12 October 2018, 00:28:40 »
I am sure whoever this setup was tested on, was thankful for the rules.
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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #23 on: 12 October 2018, 07:57:04 »
That's what Inferno bombs are for.

Also, fun fact: Sprayers are not weapons. Since the rule in question does specify weapons, aeros can load their sprayer tanks with whatever they want. Yes, I checked with the Rules Forum on this. :)
Sometimes i wonder if Xotl and others in the rules team are like "oh god, what now" when they see you've made rules question.

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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #24 on: 12 October 2018, 09:49:09 »
I am sure whoever this setup was tested on, was thankful for the rules.

An airship used acid rain to blow the leg off an Omni-Blackjack while acting in support of a Disney princess. I called it a successful test. :)

Sometimes i wonder if Xotl and others in the rules team are like "oh god, what now" when they see you've made rules question.


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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #25 on: 12 October 2018, 19:25:16 »
I've used a mix of all three Strike Fighters (Angel, Defender, and... ?) found in TRo '39.  A lot of the games we play are around larger events and every now and then, the local air defense gets to make attack runs on fixed positions, like artillery nests. Then the hero team gets to fend them off on the ground.

Sometimes I may throw in a mission where they're ground objectives, caught on the ground.



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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #26 on: 13 October 2018, 01:30:39 »
Drake Stealth Fighters have done good work for me. They don't carry the raw firepower that aerospace fighters do, but the stealth bonus/range penalty make it surprisingly hard to hit with AA fire. Its enough to convince people not to wander off unsupported, and that means no end runs around my flanks. I don't win games off the Drake, but it does give me more freedom to worry about my plans while my opponent is pushed into being more reactive.
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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #27 on: 13 October 2018, 14:04:02 »
Total War, when it first came out.

Ok, so no alt AC munitions.  Does that include alt SRM and LRM ammo (someone mentioned Infernos ... guessing the answer is standard ammo only).

I used to use the word alternative for Artemis-4 and ATM ammo's [Narc too for that matter], would they be considered alternative or a type of 'normal' ammunition?

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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #28 on: 13 October 2018, 14:12:15 »
Ok, so no alt AC munitions.  Does that include alt SRM and LRM ammo (someone mentioned Infernos ... guessing the answer is standard ammo only).

I used to use the word alternative for Artemis-4 and ATM ammo's [Narc too for that matter], would they be considered alternative or a type of 'normal' ammunition?
Art-IV launchers use Art-IV ammo in ASF combat. Narc beacons can be fired at ground targets, but i don't think ASF's can use Narc-capable missiles since they're alt ammo.

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Re: Conventional Aircraft Combat Assets?
« Reply #29 on: 13 October 2018, 14:26:20 »
Art-IV launchers use Art-IV ammo in ASF combat. Narc beacons can be fired at ground targets, but i don't think ASF's can use Narc-capable missiles since they're alt ammo.

Correct on all counts. And for fighters mounting normal LRMs/SRMs, only the basic ammunition, nothing else.

LB-X cannons always fire cluster, never slug.

ATMs see their damage curve change by range bracket to represent switching between the three standard munitions.

MMLs can switch between LRMs and SRMs, but basic missiles only. (Or Artemis only if the rack has that.)
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