Talk to me about these two mechs:

[Havock]

The Locust -IIC and the Black Python.

The former looks good, rather fast with a nasty short range punch (I should make a star of these guys, it will be glorious!), armor is shit but hey, Locust.

The Black Python looks really nice on paper, but oh-so-expensive. Clan Pulse Lasers with TC is generally considered 'cheese-flavoured' or worse, the machine guns are an odd implementation and sort of detract from it. It also looks like a fighterjet on legs, which is awesome.

Anyway, have at it!

[daeceg]

Well, hopefully the Locust won't get hit...it is pretty fast.  Great back-stabber.  The ATM-3 version is a little lacking compared to the direct-fire variants.  The heavy smalls in one version are intense, but the lack of range and inaccuracy inherent in the lasers are a drawback.

The Viper/Black Python was a standard of Battletech Open tournaments when weight was the factor, not BV.
Fast, jumping, pulse/t-comp.  What isn't to love?  The Ultra-2 variant would eliminate any chance of you being accused of cheese. (though it really isn't much of a Python)

A Star of 2 Black Pythons and 3 Locust IICs would be a great cavalry unit.  Fix the opponent with the bouncy Pythons while flanking with the LCT-IIC....ugly...

[Alex Keller]

There's a reason former ilKhan Brett Andrews drives a Black Python...  It's boss and it'll match up favorably against almost all Jade Falcon designs of that era. 

[Hellraiser]

The Locust -IIC

Its thouroughly unclanlike but I have 2 words for this mech......PACK TACTICS !
Seriously, I was playing SLDF in a campaign a few years ago & had a full company of them in the 1st Royal Regiment.  Watching them slice through 3 front line clan Omnimechs every single turn with lance fire is a memory I will never forget.

and the Black Python.

Exact opposite from above.
This is a duelists machine.
The only thing about it that says "teamwork" is the MG/SPL battery giving it serious AI ability.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

One thing to keep in mind about the Black Python is that it's got good mobility and extremely accurate weapons, making it a very effective duelist, but it doesn't have that great of a punch and a rather weak ranged presence for a 75 ton Clan mech, so it's not very good in a larger battle like a Grand Melee.

[Diablo48]

One thing to keep in mind about the Black Python is that it's got good mobility and extremely accurate weapons, making it a very effective duelist, but it doesn't have that great of a punch and a rather weak ranged presence for a 75 ton Clan mech, so it's not very good in a larger battle like a Grand Melee.

The lower damage of the pulse lasers also means it has significantly more trouble cracking the thick shells of assault 'Mechs than other heavies, so if you do take it into a larger battle you are going to have to relegate it to a support roll pushing around fast movers and screening your main forces.

[Zureal]

Iv always seen the Python, when it comes to actual battles and not duels, as more of a chavalry mech. great for flanking and baiting the enemy

[Iron Mongoose]

Definatly two extreems in their ways.

The Locust is a fun little mech.  Fast, though not to the more modern standard of blistering hyper speed, so its still a bit on the vulnerable side against the most modern mechs and depends on plenty of cover.  The up side is that, especaly in very close, it's armed to the teeth.  The MPL is a very solid weapon for harassing on fast passes or hunting other fast lights, but the real show is the eight ERSLs, which combine with the medium for a potental 47 damage.  Sure, the sweet spot is two hexes out (at point blank, you risk physicals, which is a bad idea in a 25 tonner) but if you can get behind some fool, you can really light him up.

Plus, its a Mongoose mech, so its one of the three or four best units in the game just for that.

The Python has a lot of accuracy, but in my mind it can, if you're bold be a bit of a team player.  At 75 tons, it can afford not to jump and just take very accurate shots.  Against faster mechs (like that Locust) it will honestly tend to do as much damage as a Dire Wolf since it won't ever miss, which frees the actual Dire Wolves to shoot big slow sons of bitches that they can't hardly miss.  Even compaired to average sorts of Timber Wolves and Summoners, against anything more manuverable than an Annihlator the high accuracy means that expected damage will be about the same; I'd rather hit with both LPLs than just one of a Timby A's PPCs, weather against a Phoenix Hawk or a Battlemaster (at range).  Many people look at the larger Python like they do the Wraith or Vapor Eagle or Piriah B and try and jump and dodge fire, but its a big enough mech that so long as you can keep the range open (something large battles are great for) you can stand in a slugging match with any but the best heavies and have more than a little hope.

Of course, as a dualist where you can lean on thouse jets a bit, its the equal of all but the greatest assualts.  TCed LPLs are scorned for a very good reason, and the derision that the Black Python gets so often is because it really is that solid a mech (even with the funky design choices).

[Diablo48]

IM, I tend to lean away from designs like the Python for dealing with fast heavies because your average Clan Warrior is a 2/3 veteran so an ERPPC/ERLL/Gauss Rifle/LRM rack/ect. will usually be accurate enough to at least break even on average damage, and a Targeting Computer or pressing into medium range will shift the numbers to favor the harder hitting weapons over the LPL.  They also have a small advantage in range brackets which can allow you to take potshots to get an edge over the more accurate LPL.

[nova_dew]

The Locust -IIC and the Black Python.

The former looks good, rather fast with a nasty short range punch (I should make a star of these guys, it will be glorious!), armor is **** but hey, Locust.

The Black Python looks really nice on paper, but oh-so-expensive. Clan Pulse Lasers with TC is generally considered 'cheese-flavoured' or worse, the machine guns are an odd implementation and sort of detract from it. It also looks like a fighterjet on legs, which is awesome.

Anyway, have at it!

their fixed that for you no offence bit its a family friendly board and game and I do not mean to be a git but something (I had a brain-fart) not asking you to change it or anything just dont wonna see people warned or anything for something silly

[Scotty]

The board automatically censors everything that is considered overly offensive, assuming it's spelled correctly.  If it was not censored, it was not overly offensive.

[Mattlov]

The Black Python has one really annoying disadvantage, and that is the TC in the arm.  It is rather horribly exposed and I see it come off well before the effectiveness of the 'Mech is seriously degraded.

Locust is fun.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The lack of arm mounted weaponry also hurts the Black Python, especially once the fighting gets close.

[Havock]

Yes, that was my impression as well, it was as if they saw that the thing had all the parts to be a munchmech... And then they threw around the parts in a less-than-optimal way... And added machineguns, now it is rather good instead of borked.

The Concern for gunnery 2 pilots is a valid one, but it hurts everybody and I have been pushing for some restrictions on that with the group I usually play with. It gets a bit old seeing the same old (though anonymous!) elite pilots in their gauss-rifle-armed rides every single time :p

[Diablo48]

The Concern for gunnery 2 pilots is a valid one, but it hurts everybody and I have been pushing for some restrictions on that with the group I usually play with. It gets a bit old seeing the same old (though anonymous!) elite pilots in their gauss-rifle-armed rides every single time :p

That was not a comment on a player group, that was the result of a calculation I did a while back on canon numbers.  I assumed every formation listed was a 'Mech formation with the standard green=4/5, regular=3/4, veteran=2/3, and elite=1/2 skills and averaged them all based on the number of trinaries listed.  The result was that frontline formations averaged slightly better than veteran, second line formations were slightly better than regular, and the touman as a whole averaged slightly worse than veteran.  As a result, you can generally assume a "typical" frontline star will have four 2/3 veterans lead by one 1/2 elite while a secondline star will have four 3/4's lead by a 2/3 commander.

[Iron Mongoose]

Its worth noting that both mechs in qustion are in fact second line (at least nominaly).  Its also worth noting that, while actual conditions often lead to a larger number of larger, slower mechs (there's no use taking fast mechs up against clan elite pilots, since its so hard to make them miss, so you may as well take assualt mechs where they're not going to miss anyway) in the same canon that gives us thouse skill values, we're also told that the Clans continue to love their lighter, faster mechs.  Exactly the sort that the Python excells against.

[Headshot]

we're also told that the Clans continue to love their lighter, faster mechs.

Because in canon "skilled evading" isn't an optional rule, its reality.  :P

[Nemesis]

Treat the Locust IIC as a 2nd line Fire Moth, and use it accordingly.

[Havock]

Well I don't have any experience with that one either, the only experience I have with clan mechs right now is megamek (AI McPunchbag) and a multi-player brawl where I took a Conjurer and a Marauder IIC. Good mechs but my mission required some mobility, so the Warhammer IIC would have been better. Conjurer is a beastly medium mech though, clan LPL is always good, two streaks two's and two pocket large lasers make for a rounded arsenal on a medium mech.

Setup for a star for an upcoming game (3052)
Locust IIC (3/5)
Horned Owl 2 (3/5)*
Conjurer (3/4)
Stormcrow Prime (3/4)
Black Python (3/4)

Actually a griffin IIC model but I can't fit it in without making the pilot a noob and that would be distinctly unclan-like, so I took a slightly cheaper mech that looked a bit like it. Note to self, mech collection is top-heavy.

Which is why I asked, I was already familiar with the Conjurer and the Horned Owl 2 as well as the Storm Crow prime are as straightforward as it gets, but the Locust IIC and Black Python seem to be finesse machines.

The idea behind the lance is more of a cavalry setup -ie. good quality 2nd line stuff that can get somewhere quickly to pull the firstline regminents out of the shit they tend to find themselves knee deep in from time to time, isn't that right Ian Hawker?-, no really big guns in there but good accuracy, and mobility, and when you -do- have holes in your armor this is just going to be mean.

Not that clan large lasers of whatever varierty are inadequate for hole punching... It's just not 15-damage bricks I am tossing around.