Mech of the Week HOP-XX Hoplite

[Moonsword]

A little bit of speed over the infantry isn't a bad thing - it lets you maneuver to deal with something, then slip back into formation without disrupting their advance as much.

[Ruger]

at 4/6 it can just keep pace with Motorized and most Mechanized platoons.

Most infantry have MP of 3 or less per the TechManual...it's only some Mechanized that have more (wheeled with 4 and Hover with 5, or all Mechanized or Motorized when on pavement or when using fast movement rules)...granted, in hilly terrain, these numbers can become a little different, but for the most part, even at 3/5 Hoplite should be able to keep up...

Of course, I tend to think more on the lines of foot or jump infantry...

Also, I realize that extra speed can be useful, but so can extra firepower for support...5 tons could be used for several different things to help out either the AC-10/LRM-5 model or the PPC/LRM-15 model...

Ruger

[Skyth]

Never been a fan of the Hoplite.  Only 10 shots for it's gun and then pretty much nothing.  An AC/10 isn't that scary. 

[Moonsword]

I strongly disagree with the idea 3/5 is fast enough for that job when you keep in mind just what it is Hoplites are supporting or operating alongside.  "Mechanized infantry" as a description for forces includes infantry forces in Goblins, heavy APCs, etc., not just what the rules call mechanized infantry.  4/6 is just fast enough to keep up with line formations, heavy IFVs, and the like, as well as giving you some turn of speed when supporting slower formations.  They would also be seen operating alongside other BattleMechs because of the way the SLDF deployed mechanized infantry and BattleMech brigades alongside each other, so 4/6 keeps them fast enough for the slow-end mediums (Hunchbacks or Wyverns), standard heavies, and fast assaults to operate alongside them at the same speed.

The biggest source of inefficiency on here is all those SHS.  Either swapping for DHS or using fewer heat sinks would be enough to get you some gains without cutting the speed that low, and by the time the HOP-4B shows up, DHS are quite common.  That should get you some useful extra tonnage without trimming the speed low enough to eliminate some of the other roles Hoplites find themselves in.

[Ruger]

I strongly disagree with the idea 3/5 is fast enough for that job when you keep in mind just what it is Hoplites are supporting or operating alongside.  "Mechanized infantry" as a description for forces includes infantry forces in Goblins, heavy APCs, etc., not just what the rules call mechanized infantry.  4/6 is just fast enough to keep up with line formations, heavy IFVs, and the like, as well as giving you some turn of speed when supporting slower formations.  They would also be seen operating alongside other BattleMechs because of the way the SLDF deployed mechanized infantry and BattleMech brigades alongside each other, so 4/6 keeps them fast enough for the slow-end mediums (Hunchbacks or Wyverns), standard heavies, and fast assaults to operate alongside them at the same speed.

The biggest source of inefficiency on here is all those SHS.  Either swapping for DHS or using fewer heat sinks would be enough to get you some gains without cutting the speed that low, and by the time the HOP-4B shows up, DHS are quite common.  That should get you some useful extra tonnage without trimming the speed low enough to eliminate some of the other roles Hoplites find themselves in.

Now, put in that context, I agree with you, although it will not be able to keep up with your faster APC's/IFV's, especially hover ones, moving at flank speed...

Plus, switching to 10 DHS's frees up more tonnage than simply dropping the engine down to a 165 fusion, while increasing heat dissipation...

Ruger

[anime ninja]

Looking at the mech and it's role, dropping the 6 HS to 10 DHS and adding in endo, that will give you 8.5 tonnes.  Add in ECM and probe, make the LRM a 10 pack the AC an LB-X with Case.  2 tonnes LRM, 3 tonnes AC (or other Way) that would be what would support the infantry.   The AC for tanks and the LRM for "support" ammo.

It does not need jump and that might make the pilot start leaving their charges, the infantry.

[Colt Ward]

I think 4/6 is fine . . . while that Maxim can go faster, its not during route marches or in strategic movement.  When a SL infantry unit is attacking, they will want that speed to dash in to place infantry where they need to be but they will want their anti-armor fire support to be a steady firing platform . . . which means walking forward 4 which gives a MP for facing & elevation changes or getting into light woods.

[Weirdo]

As others have said, 4/6 matches common ISVs. Also, motor and mechinf platoons are deceptively fast on an actual mapsheet. Between Fast Movement, an easier time dealing with certain terrains, and the fact that they don't care about facing changes...a 4/6 Hoplite is probably going to have to dip into running MP on multiple occasions to keep up with a given 3 MP platoon. Unless you're specifically building something to support untransported foot troops, I'd probably say you shouldn't go below 4/6 at all, and that a 3/5 would have difficulty unless it jumps.

Finally, speed for infantry support units doesn't need to be slow, there are times when a fast unit is preferable. A Hoplite can keep up with troops and maybe maneuver a bit around them. On the other hand, a Hell's Horses force sees a Zephyros more than able to keep up, even able to pace some hover transports, and in a ground advance it's got the speed to quickly respond to events on the other end of the advance, while a Hoplite might be forced to plink with LRMs while it plods over.

[Colt Ward]

Could hover Quad-Vees be a ISV in Horse's tactical doctrine?

[Weirdo]

They'd have to exist first. Can't really say what they could do until we see what they can do.

I'd lean against hovers in the infantry support role. Plenty of them are good at laying down hurt on infantry, and being able to keep up with hover APCs as nice, but if you're going to support infantry, staying close to them is kinda part of the job description. Hovers need to keep moving fast, even after the infantry have dismounted their transports. Think of them more as units you call in on strike missions instead of something that stands in the line of battle.

[Colt Ward]

Basically I was thinking they would be able to cross terrain as fast as troops in Svantovits & Hephastus, particularly water.  When it comes time to stand up and support the infantry on the ground, they go to mech mode.

[Weirdo]

Again, we really can't say. They don't exist, so it's really hard to talk about what they'd be good at. Same issue with SLDF beachhead assault units and how well they're supported by Land-Air WarShips.

[grimlock1]

Could hover Quad-Vees be a ISV in Horse's tactical doctrine?

So long as they don't get nerfed too badly on weight penalties.

Could lead to some interesting combo usage with jump jets...

Again, we really can't say. They don't exist, so it's really hard to talk about what they'd be good at. Same issue with SLDF beachhead assault units and how well they're supported by Land-Air WarShips.

Come again...

[Ruger]

Land-Air WarShips.

Color me interested...  ;D

Ruger

[Weirdo]

First mentioned in Freeborth, right after the section on Davion were-lampreys.

[Orin J.]

My favorite thing about this 'mech is that i'm pretty sure it must seat like four people from that windshield, making it the ideal 'mech to cruise for the ladies when on leave!

[Weirdo]

At the very least, there's room up top for a grill and some lawn furniture, set up a cozy rooftop beach party.

Hey, that's why it's oversinked! It must have a beer fridge!

[Maingunnery]

At the very least, there's room up top for a grill and some lawn furniture, set up a cozy rooftop beach party.

Hey, that's why it's oversinked! It must have a beer fridge!

So it carried only half a ton of LRM ammo, the rest is just beer....

[Orin J.]

So it carried only half a ton of LRM ammo, the rest is just beer....

"Congrats, you're caller 13 and you've just won the WKRX 56.8 beer bomb! We're gonna launch you five refreshing cases of Galatea's finest, natural ice dropped right on your yard using the WKRX's own heavy metal, the headbanger hoplite and its special cooler launcher and all you gotta do is say this is WKRX 56.8 where metal never dies!"  :rockon: :crazy:

[Kit deSummersville]

The maximum internal heat that it can produce = 2 (run) + 2 (LRM) + 3 (AC) = 7
The heat dissipation is 16, so it has a spare capacity of 9 points.
However the maximum of heat from external sources is 15 points (Inferno SRM, Burning hexes, Flamers, etc).
So when dealing with dirty fanatics, it has enough heatsinks to remain operational, but not enough to do everything in the worse case scenario.   

"We have infantry supported by a Hoplite."
"Roger, focus inferno fire on the 'Mech. We can make it stop using the LRM-5 if we hit it enough!"

[Weirdo]

That tells me the Hoplite pilot is using his LRM right. :)

[Kit deSummersville]

That tells me the Hoplite pilot is using his LRM right. :)

Or the enemy is using his SRM choices poorly....

[Weirdo]

Tactics is the art of convincing your opponent to make poor life choices. For the Hoplite, the goal of his tactics should be for enemy SRMs to be aimed at him instead of his infantry buddies, convincing them to buy all his drinks that night.

[phoenixalpha]

The Hoplite is just a Centurion, less LRM & no ML and some more HS.. should be doing the same role really.

[Empyrus]

Tactics is the art of convincing your opponent to make poor life choices than you do.

Slight correction. I think warfare seems to be a competition who is less incompetent.  :D

[mbear]

Given the sheer number of infantry regiments/divisions during the Star League era, how effective an infantry support 'Mech is the Hoplite, if you want something cheap, easy to support, and likely to end up fighting Firestarters, Vulcans and things with inferno launchers?

Those specific 'Mechs aren't what the SLDF would have been thinking of.  Vulcans aren't introduced until after the Amaris Coup and the Firestarter didn't really proliferate outside some use by the Lyrans, the SLDF, and more limited use by the Capellans until the 28th century introduction of the FSi-H, which includes machine guns for anti-infantry work.  Even then, it was mainly thought of as a scout and incendiary 'Mech, not an anti-infantry unit.

I'd think about Vedettes, Tigers, APCs, and later on Bulldogs as likely opponents, plus the occasional 'Mech, especially recon types scouting the infantry formation or cavalry/raider units looking to mission kill vehicles and deny the infantry their mechanized mobility.  A lance of Hoplites is enough to make thinly-armored lights or raiders more cautious.  They've also got enough concentrated firepower to hit a bunker pretty hard and quiet its guns so the infantry can take the strong point.

I think BrokenMnemonic might be onto something. There is the Ignis tank in the RWR. It has four (?) flamers available and deploys in platoons, so that's 16(?) flamers hitting you? I'd be glad for the extra heatsinks.

And it's possible that the Hoplite was intended by the SLDF to be the hammer to the infantry's anvil. That could explain the higher speed as well.

[Kit deSummersville]

Tactics is the art of convincing your opponent to make poor life choices. For the Hoplite, the goal of his tactics should be for enemy SRMs to be aimed at him instead of his infantry buddies, convincing them to buy all his drinks that night.

Sure, but tactics only go so far. If the enemy is using infernos on the Hoplite instead of regular SRMs on the Hoplite or infernos on the infantry, the enemy is incompetent.

[GermanSumo]

i disagree with many posters about the "wasted" 6 tons for the extra freezers. please correct me, but the hoplite was the star leagues answer to the question "what mech is simple and cheap enough to spam alongside my millions of infantrymen?". i would say, the league answered this question quite well. its a brick which can only be broken quickly by an ammo hit. its weapons endurance is of no consequence considering its deployed alongside all those support and reload battallions. quick access to the divisions kitchen probably a huge plus for the pilots. ;) oversinked? well... considering its counterparts i would consider it a bonus. when we played 3025 the ability to withstand 2 reactor hits and STILL being at 100 % weapons output was considered a huge plus! and the damage output is decent and on par with most of its contemporaries. even up into the assault class (im looking at you, banshee and charger).
oversinked, not really. serving special pilots who DONT like thinking about which weapon to fire and which not ALL the time, yes! :P :P and those players do exist. even today.

that said. i would prefer riding one of these things over a standard wolverine any freakin day.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

As far as I'm concerned, if a mech can be described as oversinked, it means it needs more guns.

[Liam's Ghost]

It might say something about the Hoplite's capabilities that a few decades later the League procured an upgraded version of the Sentinel to do the same infantry support job.