Author Topic: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition  (Read 203451 times)

Greatclub

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #600 on: 07 August 2018, 19:34:13 »
Any plans to re-release the map sets? If they're re-released, I'd snap up #7 right away; even if it was just the PDF I'd grab it.

I have dead tree of the rest.

abou

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #601 on: 07 August 2018, 19:34:38 »
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Valkerie

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #602 on: 07 August 2018, 20:14:34 »
Aside from the Commander's Edition for Alpha Strike, anything else in the works that will be focused on AS? (PDF or otherwise)
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NeonKnight

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #603 on: 07 August 2018, 20:24:16 »
Aside from the Commander's Edition for Alpha Strike, anything else in the works that will be focused on AS? (PDF or otherwise)

There may be a small glimmer of hope for the future COMBAT MANUALS...maybe PoD or PDF, but certainly not in the same format as what came before. And this is based on my asking Randal and Brent at GenCon.
« Last Edit: 07 August 2018, 20:33:35 by NeonKnight »
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Joewrightgm

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #605 on: 07 August 2018, 22:03:03 »
There may be a small glimmer of hope for the future COMBAT MANUALS...maybe PoD or PDF, but certainly not in the same format as what came before. And this is based on my asking Randal and Brent at GenCon.
I would happily pay for PoD for future Combat Manuals. :thumbsup:  (or PDF if that's the only option  ;) )
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ChrystalNiNja88

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #606 on: 07 August 2018, 23:21:12 »
With shattered fortress out, any word on record sheets? Me and my friend wanna start doing dark age fights again but it's hard to have much variety with the new units when variants are scarce.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #607 on: 08 August 2018, 03:52:10 »
More record sheets are always a good thing.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #608 on: 08 August 2018, 06:28:19 »
I hope if and when the next TRO does come out, that if it's PDF one that will include record sheets like the TRO:3145 series did.  It seem work out better, even if there less content. 
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mbear

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #609 on: 08 August 2018, 06:58:28 »
I would happily pay for PoD for future Combat Manuals. :thumbsup:  (or PDF if that's the only option  ;) )

Unfortunately Combat Manuals are dead. Heard it straight from Randall at Origins 2018. They're an ex-product.

Edit: OK so I just saw NeonKnight's comment above. I'm still not hopeful for Combat Manuals.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #610 on: 08 August 2018, 07:00:55 »
There may be a small glimmer of hope for the future COMBAT MANUALS...maybe PoD or PDF, but certainly not in the same format as what came before. And this is based on my asking Randal and Brent at GenCon.

Combat manuals, yasss!  Even if they’re not the (very high) quality of the existing ones, I think I would welcome them.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #611 on: 08 August 2018, 08:25:42 »
Unfortunately Combat Manuals are dead. Heard it straight from Randall at Origins 2018. They're an ex-product.

Edit: OK so I just saw NeonKnight's comment above. I'm still not hopeful for Combat Manuals.

And you're right not to be. While management may have some vague ideas of doing something else with the concept, there's nothing moving forward that I'm aware of at this time.

Combat manuals, yasss!  Even if they’re not the (very high) quality of the existing ones, I think I would welcome them.

Producing something of inferior quality just to get it out is not a way forward.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #612 on: 08 August 2018, 08:26:32 »
Unfortunately Combat Manuals are dead. Heard it straight from Randall at Origins 2018. They're an ex-product.

Edit: OK so I just saw NeonKnight's comment above. I'm still not hopeful for Combat Manuals.
There may be a small glimmer of hope for the future COMBAT MANUALS...maybe PoD or PDF, but certainly not in the same format as what came before. And this is based on my asking Randal and Brent at GenCon.
I would like to see more done on the combat manuals myself, they are a great resource for creating units based on the combat commands of the inner sphere.
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sadlerbw

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #613 on: 08 August 2018, 10:15:25 »
With shattered fortress out, any word on record sheets? Me and my friend wanna start doing dark age fights again but it's hard to have much variety with the new units when variants are scarce.

This is unofficial hearsay, but no, no record sheet products are on the horizon. I actually brought this up with Brent, and he asked what was missing from the TROs that was preventing us fans from working them up if we really wanted to use those units. Mostly, it is the actuators and how the crits are laid out. However, for the New Tech, New Units stuff, there is no full TRO stat block, so we can’t necessarily figure those out at all.

The holdup was for a variety of reasons: There has been no luck finding a more automated tool to produce the layouts, it takes a whole lot of time to do them by hand, and none of the outstanding record sheets are a high enough priority really warrant the attention.

Basically, record sheets are important, but not as important as other products at the moment. That was how it sounded to me, and I can’t really argue with that.

Joewrightgm

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #614 on: 08 August 2018, 10:35:53 »

Producing something of inferior quality just to get it out is not a way forward.

I think ‘quality’ was the wrong word; maybe shorter/more brief?

Tai Dai Cultist

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #615 on: 08 August 2018, 10:43:12 »
Combat Manuals aren't dead... they're pining for the fjords.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #616 on: 08 August 2018, 10:59:06 »
This is unofficial hearsay, but no, no record sheet products are on the horizon. I actually brought this up with Brent, and he asked what was missing from the TROs that was preventing us fans from working them up if we really wanted to use those units.  However, for the New Tech, New Units stuff, there is no full TRO stat block, so we can’t necessarily figure those out at all.

Canon sheets for the fully Clan spec armed Juliano, the Orion C of the Wolf Empire and the Guillotine the Protectorate is using . . .
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I am Belch II

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #617 on: 08 August 2018, 11:12:23 »
Are record sheets on hold pending a new Mech Design Program??
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #618 on: 08 August 2018, 11:31:12 »
Way I have understood it before . . . they are not on hold per se, but they limit the number they are releasing due to how manhour intensive each single one would be vs having a program.
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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #619 on: 08 August 2018, 11:55:36 »
I wish they try in using MegaLab.  At least we know being updated.  I feel it's tragic lost we can't get someone to do something with Skunkworks.  At minimum to use spread sheet calculator.

Record Sheets is arguable essential thing for our game.
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Adrian Gideon

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #620 on: 08 August 2018, 12:00:40 »
We do use MekLab. We work directly with those guys in order to produce the sheets we do.
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NeonKnight

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #621 on: 08 August 2018, 12:41:59 »
We do use MekLab. We work directly with those guys in order to produce the sheets we do.

I can tell by the location for the damage bubbles on the vehicles :P

I jest!

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Azakael

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #622 on: 08 August 2018, 14:22:30 »
And you're right not to be. While management may have some vague ideas of doing something else with the concept, there's nothing moving forward that I'm aware of at this time.

Which is an unfortunate thing, as elements of Combat Manual: Mercenary could really use the other CM's.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #623 on: 08 August 2018, 15:10:30 »
Producing something of inferior quality just to get it out is not a way forward.

Although as a rhetorical question, what would you consider "inferior quality"? Personally, if the fluff and crunch info was there and it looked reasonably pretty (like the Touring the Stars or Spotlight On... series have consistently been) I could live without the lavish full-color art, the high-quality glossy paper or the four-page spread of minis painstakingly digitally painted in every unit scheme in the book, as wonderful and well done as those things were. While the CMs that we did get were definitely premium quality, there was a lot in there that could be cut, and still have a very solid product without being "inferior".

That could be, IMNAAHO, the way forward for a PDF or POD CM series. Make them "Joe Friday" editions -- "All we want are the facts, Ma'am." We get that faction books don't sell or don't sell fast enough to realize profit. Make 'em bare bones for those of us who want the faction info to play with, would like a little fluff, but can go to CamoSpecs or elsewhere or use a little imagination (horrible dictu! ;) ) to fill in the gaps on paint schemes and such.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #624 on: 13 August 2018, 23:37:30 »
I'd like to +1 the requests for more posters, more out of kicking myself for anything. I got one of the really early BattleCorps posters with the Hatchetman getting wrecked by a Rifleman, but then I never got it framed and lost it in a house fire. But I want some BattleTech on my walls.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #625 on: 14 August 2018, 08:48:50 »
Although as a rhetorical question, what would you consider "inferior quality"?

Palladium books? (I kid.) (Kinda.)

No need to ask it as a rhetorical question, I'll answer.

Quote
While the CMs that we did get were definitely premium quality, there was a lot in there that could be cut, and still have a very solid product without being "inferior".

Any time this conversation comes up, people tend to conflate the two very different elements of what it takes to get a book done: production costs, and printing costs.

The former consists of the many, varied creative efforts and costs that go into a book: writing, art, editing, layout, fact-checking, proofing, and development work. These costs are a major piece of the overall cost to produce a book, not a minor consideration. The reason I underlined layout is that it's consistently the most-overlooked element of that process. It's often a significant cost of production, but it's one that customers almost always totally ignore. And layout may be the most important factor in whether a book "feels" modern and high-quality, much moreso than the paper it's printed on.

The latter, printing costs, is self-explanatory--it's all the elements of a physical product: paper stock, B&W or full-color, cover stock, hard or softcover, and how many of that book you're printing. Remember, smaller orders are generally more expensive to print, not less.

You can certainly tinker with printing costs to adjust what you need to pay up front to print a book. Go all the way up, and the next Combat Manual could be leather-bound and smell of rich mahogany, if you can afford the printing costs and think your customers will buy that. Cut too far, however, and you're releasing a product that doesn't meet current marketplace standards. Gotta find the happy medium, at a palatable cover price to customers.

But to answer your question, to me, cutting corners in production costs is when you start getting into "inferior quality." Now you're not paying a competitive enough rate to get good writers, skimping on art, rushing the edit job, and not giving layout the time they desperately need to do some cool stuff. All just to shove a book out the airlock for the sake of being able to say, "it's out."

Sure, the grogs and the die-hards may not care because they just want new content, but that's no way to entice the new players that BattleTech absolutely needs. You may be okay with cutting the full-color pages and four-page mini spread. But those things may also be exactly what hooks a new player. What you consider a "solid product" may be far behind what a gamer in the modern marketplace expects. Hopefully, a company has done some market research to have a good understanding of what current customer expectations are.

Important: remember that releasing something as PDF-only or POD does not and should not save you much on production costs. Yes, you're saving the printing, shipping, and warehousing costs, which does bring certain products back into the realm of feasibility. But every product should be held to the same creative standard, regardless of distribution method. That's the ideal, anyway.

« Last Edit: 14 August 2018, 09:32:18 by Cubby »
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Bedwyr

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #626 on: 14 August 2018, 09:14:07 »
To make one small riff on what Cubby said, PDFs and electronic forms do have one very clear logistical advantage; they allow the book to stay “in print” indefinitely. Once linked on the store, always linked on the store.

Cubby, let me see if I can guess at some of the implications of what you said. I could save on some production costs to get some kind of quick and dirty product out there for the grogs. Not a huge amount, but not insubstantial either. What I would be betting is that I made my die hard player base happy to get more crunch and haven’t turned off the new players because they’re mostly still seeing print books first.

The cost of my bet is that I’m still devoting some of my limited resources to developing products that are necessarily more niche that I could devote to making fancier print products. What getting my bet wrong would mean is that new players are, in fact, engaging with new products entirely online. They would see the lower quality (not “bad” quality but lower) product and be turned off by it because competitors are putting out higher quality products online to entice the newbs. I don’t think that dynamic has happened yet. It might at some point, but not yet. People still engage with new product lines in a very physical way (for example, board game Kickstarters) even when online. So the major risk I run is overestimating demand for the online product at the business cost of not devoting dev resources to more fancy print books.


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sadlerbw

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #627 on: 14 August 2018, 10:33:05 »
So, take the production costs for CM: Kurita, sans printing, add 25%, or 50%, or whatever margin you need on the product and put up a Kickstarter for whatever that amount is. You could do Stretch Goals for full-color, or more art, or a lock of Randall's beard hair. You get the idea. If we put our money where our e-mouths are then it is funded and you know you will be making money because E-delivery is stupid-cheap. Plus, it's Kickstarter: everyone will assume you will be at least a year late on your original delivery estimates anyway! If it doesn't fund, you shouldn't be out much more than the initial marketing cost for setting up the campaign.

It all sounds so easy over here in my head!

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #628 on: 14 August 2018, 12:49:29 »
Kickstarter may have considerable logistics issues. Quite a lot of money will go for backer rewards, and the said rewards need to be produced and stored, if it is physical stuff, and then shipped. International orders may be tricky, seen some projects where shipping costs for international backers was charged on top of backing tier (needles to say, people weren't really happy).
And a book has limited appeal as a Kickstarter project. Might be OK for some niche enthusiast product, but not for a... well, more or less normal BattleTech product, i think. Doesn't mean it is a reliable seller afterwards. For example, if there were to be a real-world history book of BattleTech, that might work as a KS project, but that's about it for books.
While i was interested in Combat Manuals, i most certainly wouldn't back one as KS project, not nearly interesting enough.

Personally, i don't see late deliveries to be expected, and i very much doubt others do either. Would very much annoy me certainly. Delayed product implies there's probably something wrong with the project, not a good look at all.

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Re: Upcoming Releases Volume XIII: Unlucky Release Edition
« Reply #629 on: 14 August 2018, 12:51:21 »
Did I get that about right?

I think the piece you're overlooking is that production costs are much more fixed than printing costs. You can dial back on printing costs by making a B&W book instead of a color one, or using a different paper stock.

But the production costs are directly related to creative humans who need to do them. Speaking only for myself: I can't do a proportionately poorer editing job because you're paying me 15 percent less to edit this product than another one. There is a minimum amount I'm willing to accept, either per-word or flat-rate, for the quality edit I feel I bring to a product. It's my choice whether or not to accept an ICA, but I would caution that the bench is deeper in some areas than others. Can it be developed? Maybe, but lots more people want to be, and are capable of being, BattleTech writers than editors or layout specialists.

Tl;dr - Production costs are not necessarily a dial that can be easily cranked up or down.

Quote
The cost of my bet is that I’m still devoting some of my limited resources to developing products that are necessarily more niche that I could devote to making fancier print products. products geared toward attracting new players.

Anything released--anything--must justify its existence by making a profit. That means growing the player base.

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