Naval Pictures V: The Glorious Fifth

[Weirdo]

I wonder about the usefulness of a rail gun.  Just from a curve of the earth perspective.  Where a simple cruise missile battery has a much further reach.  Even if it isn't as sexy.

Guns can fire along curves quite easily, ask any artilleryman. :)

[chanman]

I'm not sure; look at the mounting - it's insanely far forward and in a very thin, small area for major structural support (compared to regular warship gun mounts) and it's literally on the one deck plate above the front end's opening doors!  I call shenanigans hard on this one; there's no room underneath the bloody thing for any typical kind of magazine (even railguns need shells), power generation systems (could be eventually exposed on deck, I admit), and sheer structural placement.

I call mockup at most, complete BS at worst.  Seriously, you're putting a major  cannon right at the bow tip with a giant hole in the hull's structural components all around it?

It's a proof-of-concept, like installing it on a barge or cargo ship, which an LST essentially is. I'm not sure a magazine would be necessary - for testing, the rounds could be manually loaded.

It was covered back in February though: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2018/02/photos-show-china-preparing-to-test-naval-railgun/ Wonder how the testing is going.

[ColBosch]

It's also about testing the technology. Even if there is no immediate role to be filled, there is always a need for more raw data to refine the engineering and theory.

[CrossfirePilot]

Guns can fire along curves quite easily, ask any artilleryman. :)

Oh I know all about hyperbolic curves and all that.  But when you are firing at speeds measured in mach numbers and escape velocities, you just don't point it up at a 45 degree angle to lob it over yonder apiece....

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Assuming that it's got a muzzle velocity of mach 7, that's only 5187 mph vs the 25000 mph of escape velocity.

And presumably they're going to be using some pretty fancy computing software on their targeting system to insure accuracy.

[Ghost0402]

China has no reason to lie about this. Underestimate their technological abilities at your own peril; remember that they manufacture most of the world's high-tech items.

The best case against this is their nuclear industry.  Issues and accidents coming out of China are easily avoidable if you actually understand and can apply the knowledge you have memorized.  They don't seem to have made that leap yet.

[marauder648]

Seeing as we're talking about the Chinese.



The Ting Yuen, one of the Chinese Ironclad battleships that was built in Germany in the 1800s. 

The Chinese went and built a 1:1 replica of her sistership as a floating museium

[Wrangler]

I am still amazed that someone was able to afford built that.

[JadeHellbringer]

Sounds like a great way to get around disarmament treaties. "We built one ship as per the agreement, however we also built several exact 1:1 replicas. For museum purposes, of course."

[The Eagle]

Sounds like a great way to get around disarmament treaties. "We built one ship as per the agreement, however we also built several exact 1:1 replicas. For museum purposes, of course."

That sounds quite appropriately Capellan, actually.

[Feenix74]

As a new build "museum ship" it would have to meet current "safety" requirements ;)

[Fat Guy]

As a new build "museum ship" it would have to meet current "safety" requirements ;)

Which aren't a thing in China, so problem solved.   ;)

[chanman]

Replica, not reproduction. I would expect modern (and small) engines in the engineering spaces considering the budget limitations. Kind of like the vizmod tanks/filming props that are mild steel or fibreglass shells over a bulldozer chassis or surplus T-55/Centurion.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Sounds like a great way to get around disarmament treaties. "We built one ship as per the agreement, however we also built several exact 1:1 replicas. For museum purposes, of course."

"It's only a model."

[marauder648]

"It's only a model."

The Soverign of the Seas.

[Wrangler]

A later version of Soverign of the Seas. Not a Model.  ;)

[chanman]

Random note on battlewagons - even in the 1980's, the Iowa needed something like 1800 crew. Most modern large DDGs from the 80's onward need something like 250-400, so each Iowa by itself needed as many sailors as an entire surface action group

[kato]

Was really the reason why France got rid of its battleships back in the 50s; they required a crew of around 1500 men for full operations back then (just like the three carriers France was running as well), and were never fully manned. Their crews were repurposed for the new additional ships France was commissioning at exactly that time when the battleships decommissioned, i.e. new destroyers and cruisers.

[DoctorMonkey]

Was really the reason why France got rid of its battleships back in the 50s; they required a crew of around 1500 men for full operations back then (just like the three carriers France was running as well), and were never fully manned. Their crews were repurposed for the new additional ships France was commissioning at exactly that time when the battleships decommissioned, i.e. new destroyers and cruisers.

Likewise the RN

[Wrangler]

To bad automation wasn't able to be apply to the larger capital ships.  Some of those ships could stuff modern ships can only barely do.   I know like shore bombardment is a sought out things for say the Marines.  Yet US Navy keeps failing their efforts give them what they need. Cruise missiles are very precise weapons, but their hair expensive per shot.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Would it be possible to build a smaller ship that was only for artillery bombardment of land targets and have it be cheap?

[glitterboy2098]

To bad automation wasn't able to be apply to the larger capital ships.  Some of those ships could stuff modern ships can only barely do.   I know like shore bombardment is a sought out things for say the Marines.  Yet US Navy keeps failing their efforts give them what they need. Cruise missiles are very precise weapons, but their hair expensive per shot.

plus it is hard to get the kind of sheer "boom" a 16 incher could deliver with any other weapon.. especially if you are angling for rate of fire..


(Pointe du Hoc. Omaha Beach.)

[Wrangler]

Well HMS Queen Elizabeth still going through her training and trials.

She with RFA Tidespring doing refueling exercise.



I still think the way they did the windows for the flight control towers is bit...odd if not goofy looking.
As long it get's job done, it's fine. 

[DoctorMonkey]

Would it be possible to build a smaller ship that was only for artillery bombardment of land targets and have it be cheap?

Short answer - yes, look at WW1/2 Monitors or even some of the armed landing craft of WW2


Longer answer - probably but I suspect that the characteristics of a small ship capable of withstanding heavy artillery firing from her would render her fairly unwieldy for other operations and so she would not be able to deploy in or for other roles; one of the strengths of vessels like the mine countermeasures vessels and similar for the RN et al is their ability to be small patrol ships and undertake a variety of other roles

[Feenix74]

Would it be possible to build a smaller ship that was only for artillery bombardment of land targets and have it be cheap?

Just improvise, adapt and overcome  :thumbsup:

[snewsom2997]

Just improvise, adapt and overcome  :thumbsup:

Just use the towed artillery put twice as many tubes on deck. Certainly making a 8" or bigger version of a M777 wouldn't be Brain surgery.

[Weirdo]

As I understand, unavoidable drifting, pitching, and rolling of the ship in question means that actually hitting a target area with a setup like that will be purely a matter of blind luck.

[I am Belch II]

That was done by some of the landing ships in WW2 where the Priest SPG would fire on the way in for landing on the beach. I'm sure it wasn't overly accurate but the spray and hope you hit something is about the best you can do sometimes.

[Wrangler]

I forgot about the old WW2 Landing Craft being used as Fire Support ships.  They mighty not have made big bang like the Battleships, but they certainly got enemy to take notice of them!

I found a what looks like a landing craft geared to do Fire Support via Rockets. It was Pintinterest find so I'm not sure what who/what she actually is.

[ANS Kamas P81]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_Craft_Tank_(Rocket)

60,000+ pounds of rocket fire all at once.  RL20 that one, kids!