Author Topic: "Training" Lance  (Read 3655 times)

ScrewySqrl

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"Training" Lance
« on: 30 January 2012, 22:37:58 »
I'm about to start teaching a new player how to play BattleTech (He's just getting teh 25th anniversary starter set. I have pretty much ALL the FASA tech readouts, and all the FASA published novels.

I was thinking of starting with Level 1 equipment, with a single lance to teach the game's basics.

rather than start with a Wasp-On-Stinger battle, i was thinking of starting with a lance designed to teach aspects of the game with each mech

Heat Management:  RFL-3N
Jump Maneuverability and terrain: WSP-1A
Initiative padding and speed: LCT-1V
Range Padding: CN9-A

Thoughts?  any better lances?

Wildonion

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Re: "Training" Lance
« Reply #1 on: 30 January 2012, 22:56:00 »
One suggestion, when I tried teaching new players I found it was much easier to work with only two 'Mechs for the first game or two. It helped keep the game moving fast and you could focus on two or three lessons at a time.

Hellraiser

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Re: "Training" Lance
« Reply #2 on: 30 January 2012, 23:12:31 »
I'd also choose mechs from the Boxed set (No Unseen) so that they can learn those right away.


Maybe......
Spider + GrassHopper
v/s
Jenner + Quickdraw

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Greywind

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Re: "Training" Lance
« Reply #3 on: 30 January 2012, 23:17:17 »
Depends on the comfort level of your students.

I agree with Wildonion.

At one time, a friend and I that played had two friends that wanted to learn how.

New player 1 only wanted to go with, at most, 2 'Mechs.  He wanted to learn the rules.

New player 2 wanted to do a company battle and learn as he went.

New player 1 wasn't really happy and it took a while before we got him to really learn the game because of the other player's insistence.

Nahuris

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Re: "Training" Lance
« Reply #4 on: 30 January 2012, 23:32:22 »
I'd second the 2 mech start --- 4 mechs can be a bit rough overall.... and I'd include a Whitworth in there to teach range padding..... The Centurion has a lot of overlap.

I'd recommend an Enforcer and a Whitworth... or something similar.... that way, he get's the feel of a wider range of weapon ideas... Both come in the starter set, and it would cover the whole range of available weaponry.....

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LordChaos

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Re: "Training" Lance
« Reply #5 on: 31 January 2012, 00:16:05 »
I agree with Wildonion.  When I last taught someone, I gave him a CN9-A and a WHM-6R (took a Vindicator and a CRD-3D myself).  Not only should he have 2 different (but complementing) mechs, you should have mechs that differ from his too. 
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House Davie Merc

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Re: "Training" Lance
« Reply #6 on: 31 January 2012, 01:35:57 »
I highly suggest the Phoenix hawk PXH-1 as a training mech .

If you wish to  use something that isnt unseen then the
Chameleon is pretty close .

Both of these serve to teach heat management ,when it's better to run then jump,
how to take advantage of longer range weapons , and that it doesn't matter  how big the
opponent is if they can't hit you .

I would also suggest starting with 2 different but complementing designs instead of a lance .

Soomething bigger but slower with more firepower .

skiltao

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Re: "Training" Lance
« Reply #7 on: 31 January 2012, 03:16:52 »
I ran two teaching games a couple weeks ago. (The single most useful thing we did was to rewrite the "Attack Modifiers" chart into a cheat-sheet of side-by-side columns so that the new players could just choose the relevant item from each column and add them up from left to right.)

First was a QuickStart free-for-all (Clint, Panther, Hermes II and me in a Commando) across the two regular BattleTech maps. This ended up feeling too spread out; the Panther was too slow to join in much, and the others were shooting each other mostly at 10's and 11's.

One of the players had seen that the Atlas was the biggest (and best sculpted) of the figures and so, after acknowledging that it would screw up gameplay, we decided to pit the Atlas and a Hunchback against an Awesome and an Enforcer. This was a team match across the single all-woods map with all introductory rules except heat.

I think doing the first game with just quickstart rules was good, at least for us, since they're simple enough to explain as we played; with a different mix of players I might have added heat in the second game instead of internals and PSRs, but (especially with assault 'Mech armor) we needed the falls and crits to speed damage up. Simplifying terrain down to just woods for the second game was helpful, and if I'd thought of it earlier, I'd have used that for the first game and then upgraded to the double BT map for the second.

I really wish I'd used 5/8/x 'Mechs for all of this. If you want to limit yourself to the current Boxed Set figures, then I recommend taking the Dervish & Dragon for yourself and giving the other guy the Trebuchet & Quickdraw. Between them you've got range padding, heat and jumping, plus the Dervish has a fair chance of dying early enough to leave you (the teacher) outnumbered.

The point of the old Wasp-vs-Stinger duel was to trade range for wider arcs; I can't think of another match that does it as well as those two, but maybe you could get close (and fill your speed/initiative slot) by adding an Assassin to the TBT/QKD team and a Jenner to the DV/DRG team.
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Fear Factory

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Re: "Training" Lance
« Reply #8 on: 31 January 2012, 04:40:37 »
I would actually stick with the medium class for this one...  below 55 tons.  Don't get them used to the 55 ton trio, don't start them with heavies and assaults, this is like a safety zone.  I really feel that the Centurion is a great design for your purpose.  Otherwise I like to start people out using the box set between 20-45 tons.  These are all varied enough and can teach new players a lot.
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StCptMara

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Re: "Training" Lance
« Reply #9 on: 31 January 2012, 05:33:33 »
My own classic teaching pair is me running a rifleman 3N, them running an Orion 1K. I also like to let them use a
Shadow Hawk and a Wasp, while I use a Centurion and a Locust.

Now, if I am using straight from the boxed set..I will let them take a Panther and an Enforcer, while I take a Jenner
and Trebuchet
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Ladob

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Re: "Training" Lance
« Reply #10 on: 31 January 2012, 08:39:11 »
I would suggest you use the "QuickStrike" free rules to start with, supposing they are not casual wargamers. It teaches the core of BT fast (move, position, shoot, move position shoot) and is a LOT faster than usual BT, which makes for quite an attractive introduction. And you can even use the 4 mechs, because they all die so fast in BF.

When that core dynamic is there you can start with true BT. I know this worked wonderfully for a group of newbees I presented the game to. They soon wanted to jump into "true" BT and although we now and then still do BF with huge numbers for a change, they learned the like the game quite fast. The greatest danger I see in BT for newbees is the "learn to like it" factor, because at the very start traditional BT rules can be really a lot for new people, a really "turn off" factor. "What? I have to see how much I moved... then plus this, plus that... oh .. Uh? HEAT TOO? damn...."
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Kovax

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Re: "Training" Lance
« Reply #11 on: 31 January 2012, 09:13:35 »
I'd opt for two 'Mechs per side: a "bug 'Mech" and a slower Medium.  That gives a "hammer and anvil" feel, some experience with movement modifiers in the face of bigger guns, as well as a taste of what more firepower can do if someone's not careful.  Starting out with Heavies and Assaults just gets them into the bad habit of parking and simply trying to out-roll the opponent in a ranged duel, and generally takes a lot more die rolling to get through all of that armor.

A while back one of the "less scrupulous" local players decided to "train" a new player by having the rookie run a Locust, while he took a HBK or some other Medium (I can't recall).  He then gave the new kid all sorts of warnings about how he would spoil his aim by running, until he had the kid convinced that it was better to just stand there with the LCT and take the damage.  Short training session, and the kid never came back.

JPArbiter

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Re: "Training" Lance
« Reply #12 on: 31 January 2012, 10:01:09 »
the box set has this nifty set of quick start rules with a 2 on 2 battle laid out involving a Hermes II, Cicada, Enforcer, and Hunchback.  you learn the values of speed, armor, Firepower, and range with that.
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Kiesel

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Re: "Training" Lance
« Reply #13 on: 31 January 2012, 10:12:30 »
I tend to avoid mechs faster than 6/9/6 & well armored heavies/assaults when introducing new players.  The first puts to much emphasis on movement, the latter on firing, and both tend to drag the game out.

Single lance split for a 2 v 2 training exercise has generally seemed to work the best.

here are some introtech mechs that are within 5 BV of each other, pick any 2 pairs & arrange them so that each side has a good variety of abilities.

Listed in order of increasing BV:

Stinger STG-3G & Thorn THE-T

Sentinel STN-3K & Valkyrie VLK-QF

Panther PNT-9R & Clint CLNT-2-3T

Shadow Hawk SHD-2D & Jagermech JM-6S

Whitworth WTH-1S & Blackjack BJ-1DC

Vulcan VL-5T & Centurion CN9-(either A or AH)

Centurion CN9-(either A or AH) & Wolfhound WLF-1

blackjack BJ-1 & Wolfhound WLF-1

Whitworth WTH-1 & Trebuchet TBT-5S

Blackjack BJ-1DB & Scorpion SCP-1N

Scorpion SCP-1N & Vindicator VND-1R

Rifleman RFL-3N, Phoenix Hawk PXH-1, Hunchback HBK-4G, & Hunchback  HBK-4SP

Shadow Hawk SHD-2H, Rifleman RFL-3C, & Hunchback HBK-4H

Phoenix Hawk PXH-1D & Hunchback HBK-4N

Jagermech JM-6A & Dragon DRG-1N

Hunchback HBK-4P & Crab CRB-20

Crab CRB-20, Hunchback HBK-4J, Dervish DV-6M, & Shadow Hawk SHD-2K

Kintaro KTO-18, Trebuchet TBT-5J, Trebuchet TBT-5N, & Quickdraw QKD-4G

Trebuchet TBT-5J, Trebuchet TBT-5N,  Quickdraw QKD-4G, & Quickdraw QKD-5A

Ostroc OSR-2L, lancelot LNC25-02, Victor VTR-9A, & Ostroc OSR-2M

Ostroc OSR-2M & quickdraw QKD-4H

Wolverine WVK-6K & Griffin GRF-1S

Griffin GRF-1N & Ostsol OTL-4D

ScrewySqrl

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Re: "Training" Lance
« Reply #14 on: 01 February 2012, 08:18:49 »
having looked over this, I think I will start with a Quick Strike battle of units in the starter set.

Once that's done, I'll move on to a regular game, with a RFL-3N, a Panther, Chameleon, and a Jenner, with emphasis on heat management.  The Rifleman is a horrid mech, but NOTHING teaches heat management as well.

Guitardian

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Re: "Training" Lance
« Reply #15 on: 01 February 2012, 11:07:17 »
I would suggest doing more than 1-on-1 battles (well once you get past the "this is how you move, and this is the turn sequence part), and hey if he's just getting the new box, let him use the mechs in there (if he's anything like most big kids who like playing games, he's gonna want to play with his new toys).

1-on-1 becomes an initiative luck-of-the-dice game with fairly equally capable mechs, and a single horrible crit could make for a very short game. lance versus lance is great to see that despite some bad breaks and some lucky breaks, the game goes on down to the last mech hopping around using its own arm as a club after all its guns have been shot out. lance-vs-lance lets him learn the trickery involved in prioritizing initiative with your moves, which in my opinion is one of the most important things to become a good player instead of just someone who knows how to play.

 I ran a few games last fall using 1 intro box set and 6 players. I played against each one individually with the same lances that I felt were a good spread of all the different play styles, then let them draft their mechs from the 24 available (we didnt use the clan stuff) and each have their personal lance to duke it out with each other. There are many possible combos, but I chose these:

new player's lance:

spider: (teach the power of J7 into cover, backstabbing,  baiting bad shots, and a bit of heat discipline)

trebuchet:  (range bracket specialist, good for how to play to the weaknesses of the other guys weapon ranges to your advantage - also good to teach how to conserve ammo and be sparing with those LRM salvos until you have a good shot)

grasshopper: (its durable, but not very hard hitting so it wont demolish smaller mechs in one volley on a bad move. just something that could use its survivability to show that even popgun weapons add up as a game drags out... aslo, it is a contrast to the other mechs because it is so heat efficient, let them appreciate how valuable that can be instead of just having more guns and armor)

atlas: (because its huge, hard to bring down, but they learn the limitations of movement and weapons range. Let them have the AC/20 and show them how it isn't necessarily the awesomest gun on the board if they can only seldom close with it)

--- versus

teachers lance:
commando: use it to lurk, make them aware to think a turn ahead when they move or get slammed with a hit and run guy if they find themselves in the wrong place

enforcer: teach them to fear the big guns how not to be victimized by them, and why it is good to identify the biggest threat and concentrate fire on it. It''s not hard to bring down, but it punches some nasty holes if it isn't dealt with quickly.

quickdraw: because its quirky. the plan was to bait the initiative, its size and jumpiness make it ready  to exploit poor positioning, but its light armament means it wont be too harsh a lesson.

zeus: similar reasons as the atlas, it takes a while to bring it down. Its not as terrifying as the atlas closing in on you, but it's very mediocre and gives them something to shoot at for a while. little rear mounted laser on this and the quickdraw gives the spider backstab tactic something to think about. Also this was just a quirk of mine, I wanted it themed just for a sense of fluff continuity so its staying with a kind of fed-com theme)

---so this wasnt so much to learn the specifics of the mech being used, but to learn the kinds of things to think about in a game, so many different approaches and considerations going on at once between initiative, range bracketing, backstabbing, bubble-of-death type mechs, ammo conservation, heat management --- and all right there in his box.
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