Author Topic: The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!  (Read 194777 times)

SteveRestless

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I'm still trying to get my head around the actual benefits of being an IlClan.  Lets say the Wolves do it and capture and HOLD terra against the inevitable Republic counter attacks. 

Does this mean the rest of the Council of 6 then go "Oh okay, you're the boss, tell us what to do." and they obey, or would Malvina throw a massive hissy fit, the Bears get stroppy, the Ravens miss what was going on and the Horses just ignore it and basically all the Wolves get is bragging rights?

Don't be so dismissive of "Bragging rights." This is part of why the clans exist. If you take Terra back from the barbarians, no other clan can EVER say they did the same. The Wolves aren't going to look to the other clans and go "Please, will you obey us now?" Hell no. If those other clans are lucky, then MAYBE the Wolves will let them in on building the next hegemony, the next League. IF they ask nicely and prove they're strong enough to deserve inclusion.

Even if they die in the taking, or after, what more fitting soil to soak with clan blood than holy Terra?
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Tai Dai Cultist

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From coming soon: 

The Republic definitely falls... and the wolves are definitely anecdotally on Terra.

So without the home clans swooping in that kind of leaves it down to three or four suspects.

Tukayyid 2.0! (Hazen vs Harwell! Cage match! Buy a savage wolf!)

I realize this is the Wolf fan thread, but am I the only one who even considers the possibility that the teaser text in the ilClan sourcebook mentioning the upcoming "fall" of the Republic could be something other than external conquest?

A Republic was afterall "saved" from political and military turmoil before by a charismatic leader named Julius Ceasar.  Change his name to "Stone" and his new title to "ilKhan" rather than Emperor and we've got a ready-made template to explain how the rise of an ilClan doesn't have to mean anyone externally imposes a conquest of the Republic and/or Terra.

The ilClan is led by whoever can successfully twist his rivals' arms and get them to squeal "ilKhan!" instead of Uncle.  I'm not saying it can't be a Clan that becomes ilClan.. I'm saying it's a fallacy to say it does have to be.  Stone becoming ilKhan and his Republic being reorganized as something that takes the name "ilClan" is one such, imo plausible, example.

SteveRestless

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I realize this is the Wolf fan thread

You're right. It is. :|
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Auberan

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He isn't Katherine and Vlad Ward.

He is Victor SD and Katherine SD.

The clans operate under the idea that the people who left the inner sphere to form the clans were better than the other people in the inner sphere. Then the best of those left the Klondike world's and further found the best of those to create the clans.

So that one of these best of the best of the best would some day return to become the new leader of the star league.

Well what's happened instead is that two of the descendants of the barbarians of the inner sphere who are brother and sister are going to have their child conquer the inner sphere

Alaric Ward has nothing to do with the Clans. He has got Hanse Davion and Victor Steiner Davion blood.

Probably Hanse Davions plan all along...

-We- know this, but unless something recently came out exposing that, everyone in the Clans do not. They know about Katherine, and the experiment was supposed to be Vlad's, and somehow Alaric was part of the Ward bloodhouse.

Whatever we know means all of jack in universe, so as far as they are concerned right now, Alaric is a Ward who happens to have a geneparent from an adopted Inner Sphere warrior.

If the full secret has been exposed in universe and it is known... well then I suppose success is its own qualifier.

Kitsune413

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It probably won't matter. From a meta perspective they need to wrap up the dark age and set the stage for their next timejump/product.

Alaric historically sacked Rome. The original Clan Invasion was a sci-fi spin on Hannibal's invasion of europe.

The odds are pretty strong in favor of Clan Wolf conquering Terra and the collective clans subjugation the Inner Sphere so it can be set up to blow up again.

It might be best if the Ghost Bears won just because the Falcons and wolves have a real rivalry. But I'll be surprised if it doesn't fall on the wolf side.
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Natasha Kerensky

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A Republic was afterall "saved" from political and military turmoil before by a charismatic leader named Julius Ceasar.

I dunno if Ceasar is the right analogy.  Caesar conquered several Gallic tribes, but he did not rule them as one of their own or invite them to live in the old Roman Republic/Empire, as the title of ilKhan would imply.  Moreover, Caesar started/won a civil war within the Roman Republic, but there is no civil war (as yet) within the Republic of the Sphere.  Everyone is seemingly loyal to Stone.

But later on, the Visigoths were invited to live within the Roman Empire and join its armies.  That could be the path to the ilClan -- Stone invites Clan forces into the Republic after Fortress comes down and sics them on invading Cappies and Dracs in exchange for territory.  (Stone has allied with Clans before, after all.)  But the Clanners eventually turn on Stone and invade Terra like the Visigoths turned on and sacked Rome.

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Change his name to "Stone"

The problem with Devlin Stone over the long-term in any of these scenarios is that he is going/has gone nutters from his cryo sleep.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
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Tai Dai Cultist

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I dunno if Ceasar is the right analogy.

The analogy wasn't meant to go any further than providing another example of a historical parallel other than Alaric sacking Rome.  They do both have their problems.

All I was saying is that while yes, the ilClan blurb does promise that the Republic will "fall".... but "falling" doesn't necessarily mean it must follow that it will be conquered by external forces.

In the face of the Republic's troubles in 3150, Stone might re-birth the Republic in the image of Clan Society... perhaps to appease or retain the loyalty of the Clan warriors already in the RAF.  Maybe more like the second coming of Little Nicky rather than Caesar.  Going from Republic to ilClan Supremacy would certainly count as "falling" from perspectives sympathetic to the Republic.

Kitsune413

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Talking to some foxes on Galatea and Solaris I'd give that a .0000001% chance.

It could happen. Anything can happen.
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rebs

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To the average Clan mindset, no position is more dominant than Terra.  It is the center, as well as the True homeworld.  As deadly vulnerable a position it is - beset by rival Clans and bitter foe Great Houses - it calls to the children of those who once wandered so far distant. 
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Archangel

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I dunno if Caesar is the right analogy.  Caesar conquered several Gallic tribes, but he did not rule them as one of their own or invite them to live in the old Roman Republic/Empire, as the title of ilKhan would imply.

Just as important Caesar was murdered before he could crown himself king, emperor or whatever (if he was going to in the first place).

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Moreover, Caesar started/won a civil war within the Roman Republic, but there is no civil war (as yet) within the Republic of the Sphere.

Well there was that short-lived Senate rebellion.

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The problem with Devlin Stone over the long-term in any of these scenarios is that he is going/has gone nutters from his cryo sleep.

Did he now?   }:) Maybe he (re)gained his sanity and finally realized that it was the rest of the Inner Sphere that was insane and that the only way to cure it was with WAR!   >:D
Detect evil first, smite second and ask questions later.

ArkRoyalRavager

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I agree that Republic intel is no match for old ComStar ROM, Blakie ROM, or Wolfnet.  But I'd contend that the Republic beats out contemporary intel agencies.  Post-Jihad ComStar intel couldn't keep the Republic from finding out about the reformed ComGuards, and the entire organization died as a result.  Three of the five Successor States are teetering on the brink of defeat and/or dissolution, partly due to intel failures.  And no other contemporary state besides the Republic has played such a long, deep, and successful game of deception when it comes to Fortress Republic and the false flag raids being conducted outside the Fortress Wall.  On top of all that, most of our FMs and TROs these days are written from a Republic intel viewpoint, and historically these sources are written from the viewpoint of the most omniscient intel agency of the day (old ComStar ROM or WolfNet).

My 2 C-bills... YMMV.

I'm guessing most of our current FMs and TROs are written from a Republic perspective because they've always been written by whatever faction that was "True Neutral" or held Terra.

Nah the Successor States that are losing are due more to inept leadership that practically gifted their foes victory. Melissa II tried to do an Honorius on Alaric, Jessica had never been a notable commander, while Caleb and the uncooperative March Lords screwed the Suns over(and before that, Harrison).

If you read the MWDA novels, you'll see that SIS and the Republic in general are riddled with incompetent intel people(except for a few good Ghost Knights). The Successor State agencies managed to achieve a lot in the Republic, Mask paving the way for the CCAF, O5P/ISF for DCMS, LIC/Loki helping Stormhammers a lot, best of all, the weakest CBT agency SAFE managing to plant high-ranking informers/agents in many places without even being detected.


Archangel

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I agree that Republic intel is no match for old ComStar ROM, Blakie ROM, or Wolfnet.  But I'd contend that the Republic beats out contemporary intel agencies.  Post-Jihad ComStar intel couldn't keep the Republic from finding out about the reformed ComGuards, and the entire organization died as a result.  Three of the five Successor States are teetering on the brink of defeat and/or dissolution, partly due to intel failures.  And no other contemporary state besides the Republic has played such a long, deep, and successful game of deception when it comes to Fortress Republic and the false flag raids being conducted outside the Fortress Wall.  On top of all that, most of our FMs and TROs these days are written from a Republic intel viewpoint, and historically these sources are written from the viewpoint of the most omniscient intel agency of the day (old ComStar ROM or WolfNet).

My 2 C-bills... YMMV.

Even the Maskirovka which was likely in charge of covering up the buildup of 'Mechs and then later units?  The Capellan failures during the Republic era were due more to failure among the leadership than a failure by the Maskirovka.
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Kitsune413

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May need a new topic for the Republic intelligence conversation. Not on topic for Wolf Ilclan
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False Son

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Did he now?   }:) Maybe he (re)gained his sanity and finally realized that it was the rest of the Inner Sphere that was insane and that the only way to cure it was with WAR!   >:D

He is a little freezer burnt when it comes to name drops.

If you read the MWDA novels, you'll see that SIS and the Republic in general are riddled with incompetent intel people(except for a few good Ghost Knights). The Successor State agencies managed to achieve a lot in the Republic, Mask paving the way for the CCAF, O5P/ISF for DCMS, LIC/Loki helping Stormhammers a lot, best of all, the weakest CBT agency SAFE managing to plant high-ranking informers/agents in many places without even being detected.

Pre Blackout the DMI was not on their game.  At the least, the AFFS should have shared their findings in the Victoria War.  The Capellans had been stashing war material for the Capellan Crusades, and had the Republic been informed (and maybe it was) then perhaps the political log jam of deciding whether or not to treat the Confederation as a threat would not have existed.  Them again, after two wars with the Confederation the Republic didn't deem them sufficient enough of a threat.

Post blackout DMI operations have stepped up, at least where Fortress Republic is concerned.  But, it is worth noting that there are forces inside the Fortress that have yet to be identified by the DMI acting against the Republic.  The raiders that hit the Comstar ruins on Epsilon Eridani, for example were never named.
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ArkRoyalRavager

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May need a new topic for the Republic intelligence conversation. Not on topic for Wolf Ilclan

Nah it's fine. It's gonna run its course soon for both me and Natasha

SteveRestless

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So, Wolves, What machines do you see yourself pairing with the Skinwalker?

Buyable from the Sea Foxes are Mad Cat III's and Sun Cobra 2's that should keep up with them in non-TSM movement. Sun Cobra 2's would also be beneficial since we've presumably got a number of Sun Cobras still in service. Similar logistical needs, even if they're faster. Mongrels, if we can get them, would be able to keep up with it's TSM Movement.

From older stock, it'd pair well in a motive sense, with Pouncers, Adders and naturally any Stormcrows we have laying around (which I doubt is many). Linebackers, too.

You could team it with the Wulfen, of course, but that's going to tether the Wulfen to a slower unit, even with the TSM active. I'd almost rather toss it in with Warwolves, and let the Skinwalker be the faster unit in the star.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Natasha Kerensky

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May need a new topic for the Republic intelligence conversation. Not on topic for Wolf Ilclan

Nah it's fine. It's gonna run its course soon for both me and Natasha

I'll bow out in favor of more lupine topics.
"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Natasha Kerensky

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So, Wolves, What machines do you see yourself pairing with the Skinwalker?

The Skinwalker's configurations are either snipers (Primary and A), close combat/shock specialists (B), or off-beat TSEMP/physical duellists (C and D).

None of the configurations deliver big hole-punchers (ER PPC, Gauss, heavy large laser), long-range/indirect fire support (LRMs), lots of critting (LB-X, massed SRMs, etc.), E/W (especially ECM), or jump mobility.

So in the absence of knowing my opponent, I'd look for starmates at complementary speeds that can fill those holes with their loadouts or configurations.

"Ah, yes.  The belle dame sans merci.  The sweet young thing who will blast your nuts off.  The kitten with a whip.  That mystique?"
"Slavish adherence to formal ritual is a sign that one has nothing better to think about."
"Variety is the spice of battle."
"I've fought in... what... a hundred battles, a thousand battles?  It could be a million as far as I know.  I've fought for anybody who offered a decent contract and a couple who didn't.  And the universe is not much different after all that.  I could go on fighting for another hundred years and it would still look the same."
"I'm in mourning for my life."
"Those who break faith with the Unity shall go down into darkness."

Kitsune413

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I wonder if a Wendigo can take a skinwalker... that Ferro-lammellar though...
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SteveRestless

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None of the configurations deliver big hole-punchers (ER PPC, Gauss, heavy large laser), long-range/indirect fire support (LRMs), lots of critting (LB-X, massed SRMs, etc.), E/W (especially ECM), or jump mobility.

Well, not entirely,  the B carries a holepunching UAC/20 AND ECM.

You're right though, about the jumping. the crit situation is such that you can't really mount many of those to begin with.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

wantec

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Well, not entirely,  the B carries a holepunching UAC/20 AND ECM.

You're right though, about the jumping. the crit situation is such that you can't really mount many of those to begin with.
The problem with jumping is that with all the tonnage & crits invested in the engine, FL, Endo, & TSM at a max you can jump 6 hexes with standard JJ. There's not enough space to fit more than 4 IJJ, and since it's an Omni a Partial Wing isn't an option.

That said, 5 jump jets will only cost you 2.5 of your 23 tons, so you can still get quite a few good options in there. At this point though, I'd say don't worry about jumping, increase your ground speed with a supercharger to get you up to a max of 14 hexes of movement (I think, I'm pretty sure TSM is calculated before the SC).


For its role, it can work with either a lighter, faster Star as the heavier punch, or as the recon/harasser of a slower, heavier Star.
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Deadborder

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So then here's a hypothetical; the Ryoken III as presented in XTRO Republic III is still a prototype/experimental model. The text notes that a production model would likely be different, and we've seen plenty of cases were the change between XTRO and Production models swaps a lot of the tech around. With that being said, what do people think a likely mass production model would look like?

To me, the most obvious answer is to drop the interface cockpit which, while cool and all, is also the single most complicated bit of tech in the whole thing and has numerous other dependent systems - EI equipped pilot, interface PAL suit and the like. Dropping that keeps the core of the 'Mechs functionality (a 6/9 Medium Omni that replicates the classic Ryoken) intact. Of course, then the issue becomes finding three tons and four crits for the Gyro.
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SteveRestless

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I toyed with this.

If you drop the FerroLam for Ferro Fibrous, you can drop the Interface Cockpit. But then, all you really have is a Stormcrow with fewer crits and TSM. Which is really kinda boring.

I suspect we'll be seeing it as-is, but not in large numbers.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Deadborder

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I would keep the FL myself, because it's that damned useful.

The silliest idea I had was to go mixed tech a bit more;  drop the TSM for crits and slop in an XL gyro. That only needs one ton after the cockpit switch
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SteveRestless

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A Small Cockpit would get you that ton. But I feel like an XL Gyro and a Small Cockpit yaws wildly away from what the prototype shows us.

Instead of a gyro-free super agile EI Driven mech, we get a harder to pilot, easier to bring down machine
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Deadborder

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I'd definitely avoid the small cockpit myself. The most obvious answer would be remove pod space or heat sinks, both of which wouldn't overly affect the performance
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SteveRestless

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Well, there's not that many sinks to drop, and without the TSM, we're looking at some heat issues if we start dropping those.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Avitue

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Keep it as it is and drop some pod space for MORE Ferro-Lamellor I say! :D


SteveRestless

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Watch out for the Triskelion, trothkin. You would think that a Warwolf's Reactive Armor would make it an attractive counter to the trisk, but 4x ERML still hurts, and with the 360 twist and 1mp hex facing changes, they're going to be more mobile than your biped Timber Wolves and Warwolves.

they are clan mechs in all but name and skeleton.
Шонхорын хурдаар хурцлан давшъя, Чонын зоригоор асан дүрэлзэье, Тэнхээт морьдын туурайгаар нүргэе, Тамгат Чингисийн ухаанаар даръя | Let’s go faster than a falcon, Let’s burn with the wolf’s courage, Let’s roar with the hooves of strong horses, Let’s go with the wisdom of Tamgat Genghis - The Hu, Wolf Totem

Kitsune413

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I wonder how it stands up to Mad Cats because it doesn't seem to think much about Warwulf's.

It might be the most optimized 75 ton mech out there...
Every man lives by exchanging - Adam Smith

 

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