The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!

[wantec]

As long as you hit high (torsos, head, arms) you won't have any more trouble than any other Clan 'Mech. If you start spreading that leg damage around to a third leg that's where the tripods have an advantage.

The Warwolf variants with AMS will have an easier time, although if you can get an H in close, the big hole punchers might carve it up quicker. For the Timber Wolf it will be able shear damage, beat down the tripod. Unless your 'Mech can jump 7+ hexes you will likely lose the maneuverability battle, so the best bet is to pick units that focus their tonnage on firepower.

[SteveRestless]

As long as you hit high (torsos, head, arms) you won't have any more trouble than any other Clan 'Mech. If you start spreading that leg damage around to a third leg that's where the tripods have an advantage.

The Warwolf variants with AMS will have an easier time, although if you can get an H in close, the big hole punchers might carve it up quicker. For the Timber Wolf it will be able shear damage, beat down the tripod. Unless your 'Mech can jump 7+ hexes you will likely lose the maneuverability battle, so the best bet is to pick units that focus their tonnage on firepower.

See, that's what I expected, but the motive bonus is what bedeviled me the most. I thought the C would be a shoe-in, till my LPL got critted. the Warwolf's smaller armament list does it no favors. Still, even after losing that LPL, the HE ATMs made sure the Trisk knew it had been in a fight.

the H served me best. I had to push it hard, used both coolant pods, but I did manage to gut it.

Against a determined aggressor the A just couldn't keep range, and that 1mp turn-any-facing stuff really troubled it.

Timber-wise, I'm inclined to go with the A or D variants. A for damage output and D for "fine, come at me, any facing, you'll get the same no matter where you are"

Even more than the Timber Wolf, I want to see one up against a skinwalker. Lets see how it does when I have 6 or 7 mp to deal with

[Kitsune413]

I'll take that challenge. I'd like to see how it does against Sea Fox equipment. Not sure though. My Vultures have stood up against Warwolves before... but the XXL engine of the Savage Wolf might be a liability.

One thing that's being overlooked is the Trisks targeting computer. It let me make run/walk or range decisions against the Warwulf.

[Natasha Kerensky]

The Triskelion is almost everything the Catapult always wanted to be.

I'd be tempted to trade the Trisk's Artemis V for bigger LRM-20 launchers and special ammo.  The crits appear to work.

[wantec]

Thinking about it some more, I think something like a Karhu Prime, a Viper B, Griffin IIC 8, etc things with a 7+ jump and an ERPPC or ERLL to out range the Triskellion are going to have a better advantage, otherwise you want a pocket-assault or an assault 'Mech to dish out the damage up close.


Steve, I'd try that battle again, getting a weapon critted once doesn't necessarily validate the results, unless it tends to happen often. Likewise you could have plinked an ERATM missile on the head and blown it off or critted both cockpits in your first shot.

[SteveRestless]

Steve, I'd try that battle again, getting a weapon critted once doesn't necessarily validate the results, unless it tends to happen often. Likewise you could have plinked an ERATM missile on the head and blown it off or critted both cockpits in your first shot.

Sure, it's a freak accident, but my point was it's more that the low number of weapons on a lot of warwolf configs makes it more vulnerable to that kind of accident

[Kitsune413]

We can just try a broader fight. Ryoken III, Mad Cat, Warwulf versus some Trisks. Or Warwulfs or whatever.

[wantec]

Sure, it's a freak accident, but my point was it's more that the low number of weapons on a lot of warwolf configs makes it more vulnerable to that kind of accident

ah, now I gotcha. It's true, the canon variants tend to be limited on the numbers of weapons, that they seem to be set up to fire everything all the time. But you can get some great custom variants out of the chassis that would work better to address this concern.

[SteveRestless]

just re-ran the Warwolf C v.s. Triskelion match with Kojak. I mean, what're the chances of me getting a freak TAC to a weapon early in the fight again, right?

... Apparently they're really good. Only like 4 turns in, two of them which we could fire at each other, and I'm already short one launcher.

I did come out on top thanks to some crits of my own that slowed him down, but boy were we both in rough shape at the end. All I had left by the end was the LPL and the LAMS.

[Kojak]

Yeah, I think it was the Prototype quirk that got me in the end. It cranked up the crit chances that resulted in a couple hits that were just straight-up catastrophic.

[Ascension]

While I'm popping into Clan threads and talking about Bloodnames, your Khan Alaric may be interested to know that the Cloud Cobras do have a Steiner Bloodname...

*ducks*

[SteveRestless]

They do, but it's been said to be a non-relation to the lyran throne. And even if it were, it's a homeworld legacy the wolves wouldn't have access to.

[Ascension]

Aw, darn it. Outdone by logic, once again!

On a more serious note, while I was a MWDA and AoD player, and was pretty conversant with the fluff at the time, I didn't read most of the books Alaric got focus in. Do we know what the cover story for his sibko was, who exactly he was said to have been descended from that qualified him for the Ward name? Sarna just mentions that he won it, no real mention of how.

Apologies if this is too tired a topic of discussion. I'm really not trying to discredit him; his achievements speak for themselves. I'm just curious as to how he got there.

[SteveRestless]

It all happened offscreen, they were pretty scant on the details about how he was decanted/raised/trained.

[Kojak]

They do, but it's been said to be a non-relation to the lyran throne. And even if it were, it's a homeworld legacy the wolves wouldn't have access to.

Actually, no, Kailen Steiner (the founder of that particular Bloodname) was the (illegitimate) child of Paul Steiner, who was in turn the son of Michael Steiner II, the fifteenth Archon of the Lyran Commonwealth (Paul himself apparently never ended up Archon, but his two presumably elder siblings, Robert II and Jennifer, were the sixteenth and seventeenth Archons, respectively). So technically speaking, while not legitimated in a legal sense, genetically the Steiner Bloodname does come directly from the original Lyran royal line.

[Kitsune413]

Aw, darn it. Outdone by logic, once again!

On a more serious note, while I was a MWDA and AoD player, and was pretty conversant with the fluff at the time, I didn't read most of the books Alaric got focus in. Do we know what the cover story for his sibko was, who exactly he was said to have been descended from that qualified him for the Ward name? Sarna just mentions that he won it, no real mention of how.

Theoretically? He thinks he is Vlad's kid his whole life.

He told Trillian they were related but he could just be claiming Katherine Wolf's dna.

They don't know about the Victor thing.

[Ascension]

Theoretically? He thinks he is Vlad's kid his whole life.

He told Trillian they were related but he could just be claiming Katherine Wolf's dna.

They don't know about the Victor thing.

But Bloodname eligibility comes from the genemother's side, so that'd still be a breach of protocol, right? Phelan (and Diana, over in Falconland) could at least claim maternal descent, despite being freeborn.

But I guess Clan tradition does have a tendency to break down whenever it might get in the way of protagonists...  :P

[SteveRestless]

Actually, no, Kailen Steiner (the founder of that particular Bloodname) was the (illegitimate) child of Paul Steiner, who was in turn the son of Michael Steiner II, the fifteenth Archon of the Lyran Commonwealth (Paul himself apparently never ended up Archon, but his two presumably elder siblings, Robert II and Jennifer, were the sixteenth and seventeenth Archons, respectively). So technically speaking, while not legitimated in a legal sense, genetically the Steiner Bloodname does come directly from the original Lyran royal line.

Huh. Wonder if he'll Kell himself should he become ilKhan.

But Bloodname eligibility comes from the genemother's side, so that'd still be a breach of protocol, right? Phelan (and Diana, over in Falconland) could at least claim maternal descent, despite being freeborn.

But I guess Clan tradition does have a tendency to break down whenever it might get in the way of protagonists...  :P

Clan Gene Science is freaky. they can use a female donor as the "father" and a male donor as the "mother."

[wantec]

Huh. Wonder if he'll Kell himself should he become ilKhan.

Clan Gene Science is freaky. they can use a female donor as the "father" and a male donor as the "mother."

Correct, and since he interacted with Katherine on a regular basis, calling her "mother" was probably more of a way to refer to her in a way that would make sense to her.

[Ascension]

I would ask where he got the Y chromosome from in that case, but I guess I'll just content myself in the knowledge that Clan genetics still isn't as screwy as Metal Gear Solid genetics.

(Liquid would make a good Clanner, though.)

[Rtifs]

In Masters of War he hoped he came from Vlad.  I think the sibko he was raised in did.  I think he learned that his “mother” was Kathryn early on.  But he was still trueborn, presumably from a Vlad/Kathryn match.  Later he learned that his “father” was VSD. 

What I’ve never understood is why House Ward allowed him to compete for the Ward bloodname.  In Bonfire (I think), the Loremaster was the leader of House Ward.  His internal dialogue strongly suggests he knew that Alaric wasn’t legitimate.  So why he allowed Alaric to compete is strange.  Even without a bloodname, Alaric was worthy of contributing to the genepool, and would still be an influential military and political figure. 

[Tai Dai Cultist]

I imagine Alaric is the physical manifestation of the extreme of Might Makes Right.

He can claim he's part of any bloodhouse he wants.  What's the word of scientists or genetic data laid against victory in a Trial of Refusal?  Alaraic can force the Clan to wear their underwear on their heads if noone can stop him in a circle of equals.

"You're not even part of that Bloodhouse, Alaric!"

"I say I AM."

[SteveRestless]

I dunno, genetics are a thing the clans are pretty uptight about. Lot of supersitions there, lot of strong feelings about it. I doubt you could claim a blood heritage you have NO connection to. a bloodhouse is going to have up to what, something like 200 bloodnamed in it?I imagine that 200:1 ratio is about what you'd face in a trial over the issue. Short of bringing like... an arrow urbie with a nuke (which would render you toxically dezgra in its own right) I don't see a way to prevail over that steep a fight.

[Vehrec]

I dunno, genetics are a thing the clans are pretty uptight about. Lot of supersitions there, lot of strong feelings about it. I doubt you could claim a blood heritage you have NO connection to. a bloodhouse is going to have up to what, something like 200 bloodnamed in it?I imagine that 200:1 ratio is about what you'd face in a trial over the issue. Short of bringing like... an arrow urbie with a nuke (which would render you toxically dezgra in its own right) I don't see a way to prevail over that steep a fight.

They might be uptight about it, but it seems that if you have enough cards in your hand you can force your way into a bloodhouse despite having no valid connection to it.

[Ascension]

They might be uptight about it, but it seems that if you have enough cards in your hand you can force your way into a bloodhouse despite having no valid connection to it.

But Alaric's really the only case of that, isn't he? And it wasn't known in his case. Aidan was a Pryde Trueborn, he just had a heap of dezgra baggage around his neck (and still had to fight a Trial of Refusal to make it in). Diana's genes were 100% from Pryde Trueborns, and had the Khan on her side. Phelan had a genetic link, however tangential, and also had a Khan on his side. Alaric's the only weird Bloodname case I know of where there's genuinely no connection.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Phelan Ward/Kell and Arthur Steiner-Davion were cousins. 

Were they just cousins-in-law through Morgan Kell, who was a cousin of Katrina Steiner's husband Arthur Luvon?

Or were they cousins with a common ancestor?  Specifically, did some part of the Steiner or Davion line descend from SLDF Captain Michael Ward, like Phelan Ward/Kell was a descendant of SLDF Captain Michael Ward through his mother, Salome Ward?

If it's the latter, then maybe Alaric has a legitimate claim to a Ward bloodname in the same way Phelan did.

FWIW...

[Deadborder]

Phelan's "legit" claim to a Ward Bloodname was probably more then a little "influenced" by Ulric in the name of giving himself an ally with rank and position and the potential to increase in both. As a bondsman or even an adopted freeborn, he still could only go so far, but with a Bloodname, he coild get to Khan

[wantec]

I dunno, genetics are a thing the clans are pretty uptight about. Lot of supersitions there, lot of strong feelings about it. I doubt you could claim a blood heritage you have NO connection to. a bloodhouse is going to have up to what, something like 200 bloodnamed in it?I imagine that 200:1 ratio is about what you'd face in a trial over the issue. Short of bringing like... an arrow urbie with a nuke (which would render you toxically dezgra in its own right) I don't see a way to prevail over that steep a fight.

A bloodhouse will have a max of 25 bloodnamed warriors in it. Having something like 200 active warriors is reasonable, but each bloodhouse is limited to 25 bloodnames, unless it's lost some in reavings.

[Kojak]

A bloodhouse will have a max of 25 bloodnamed warriors in it. Having something like 200 active warriors is reasonable, but each bloodhouse is limited to 25 bloodnames, unless it's lost some in reavings.

And given that even some of the most prominent and powerful Bloodname Houses have been reduced to five or fewer legacies over the centuries, it's probably safe to assume that very few Houses still have all twenty-five.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Phelan's "legit" claim to a Ward Bloodname was probably more then a little "influenced" by Ulric

No doubt.  Obviously Phelan was not a product of his Clan's trueborn breeding protocols.  It took Ulric's intervention to ignore this fact when Phelan competed for a Ward bloodname.

But through his mother Salome Ward, Phelan was a direct matrilineal descendant of SLDF Captain Michael Ward.  Phelan carried the right Ward genes; they just hadn't been tweaked by the Scientist Caste for a couple centuries.

What I'm wondering is whether Alaric also carries Ward genes.  We know that the Wards and Kells are cousins of the Steiners through marriage, due to Arthur Luvon's marriage to Katrina Steiner.

But are all these cousin references about more than just the Luvon/Steiner marriage?  Did the Steiner or Davion line cross with SLDF Captain Micheal Ward's line at some point farther in the past?  That's what I'm asking.

If the Steiners or Davions do carry Ward genes, then it's possible that Alaric may have as "legitimate" (or nearly as "legitimate") a claim on a Ward bloodname as Phelan did.

That would be a very different situation than if Alaric claimed a Ward bloodname with no Ward genes.

(That also begs the question of who had the clout to force the Ward bloodhouse to accept Alaric's claim.  If it took someone of Ulric's stature to allow freeborn Phelan to compete with good Ward genes, who had even more power to allow trueborn Alaric to compete with no Ward genes?)