The Wolf Empire: Our Khan Beat Devlin Stone in a Savage Wolf! Buy Savage Wolves!

[Cryhavok101]

Trial of Possession, A.K.A. "How to buy a Savage Wolf, by a Savage Wolf"

[Phaedros]

So, what is new on the Lyran and Republic fronts? Anyone kill any Spheroid surats lately?

I am currently working on putting together a Nova (so far I have a Savage Wolf and a Warwolf, and I am planning to add an Ice Ferret H and a Stormcrow, but unsure as to what the fifth 'Mech will be) with an attached Point of Carnivores for Alpha Strike.

[Colt Ward]

What BA are you using?

[Phaedros]

Elementals, though I would use Black Wolves if they had minis. I can also use the Elementals for pre-Dark Age, so they are the best bet.

[Colt Ward]

Well, neither the Savage Wolf or Carnivores would work before Dark Ages . . .

If you wanted to go classic for the 5th mech spot you can make it an Adder.  The other side of that is if you go Invasion era it would all work (except calling the Ice Ferret something other than H) with a single point of Elementals as a Command Star.

[wantec]

Why not go with a Wulfen? It will work as a great scout. The variants run from 18-26 points. Some go up to as much as 3 damage at short & medium, or 2 at long. They're fast, hard to hit, and omnis.

There was a MWDA figure for the Black Wolf BA you might be able to find online somewhere.

[SteveRestless]

I wonder if anyone has ever run a nova full of Nova Omnimechs.

After I finish their business on carsphairn my Rho Galaxy wolves will be out of stuff to do till the plot moves forward. I've already crammed way too much to fit into 3145, probably enough to carry them to 3148.

Been focusing more on MWO in my scant free time, picked up a fifth Timber Wolf. Gonna grab Vlad's hero TBR once the new rewards cycle begins. I get nothing extra if I buy it this cycle.

I did talk a friend into painting up some minis for me though, gonna get them done in Rho/15th Assault's colors.

[Kojak]

I wonder if anyone has ever run a nova full of Nova Omnimechs.

Well, now I want to...

[Phaedros]

Why not go with a Wulfen? It will work as a great scout. The variants run from 18-26 points. Some go up to as much as 3 damage at short & medium, or 2 at long. They're fast, hard to hit, and omnis.

There was a MWDA figure for the Black Wolf BA you might be able to find online somewhere.

I have been debating a Wulfen H, especially the high-damage config, however, I want to try to run my force as WYSIWYG, so if you have any ideas on which OmniPods in the IWM online store would be good for it, let me know. :)

The only Black Wolf Battle Armor made for DA/AoD was in the Wolf's Dragoons Gamma Regiment set, and those came out towards the end of MechWarrior Clix, so not many floating around, and quite a bit more of an investment than a Star of Elementals.

Well, neither the Savage Wolf or Carnivores would work before Dark Ages . . .

If you wanted to go classic for the 5th mech spot you can make it an Adder.  The other side of that is if you go Invasion era it would all work (except calling the Ice Ferret something other than H) with a single point of Elementals as a Command Star.

I know the Savage Wolf, Warwolf and Carnivores cannot be used pre-Dark Age, that's why I have a Timberwolf. :D

[wantec]

I have been debating a Wulfen H, especially the high-damage config, however, I want to try to run my force as WYSIWYG, so if you have any ideas on which OmniPods in the IWM online store would be good for it, let me know. :)

Well, you can use the same gun arm for the HLL, maybe cut the barrel shorter to make it obvious it's different. If you want to go a bit wacky, you could use the Solitaire main guns for the shoulder-mounted HMLs, although it'll look odd. There's also the heavy lasers from the Pariah A sprue or the ERPPCs from the Septicemia E mini that could be cut for your use.

The only Black Wolf Battle Armor made for DA/AoD was in the Wolf's Dragoons Gamma Regiment set, and those came out towards the end of MechWarrior Clix, so not many floating around, and quite a bit more of an investment than a Star of Elementals.

True, although if you did get some, you could separate them out to a single BA suit per point, so you'd only need 3 of the MWDA figures.

I know the Savage Wolf, Warwolf and Carnivores cannot be used pre-Dark Age, that's why I have a Timberwolf. :D

Along those lines, instead of a Wulfen, you could bring an Ice Ferret or Phantom as an earlier recon/harasser for the 5th member. The Ice Ferret has one more point of armor (5 vs 4) and the same structure (2), but the Phantom gains an extra 2" of movement (but the same TMM of 3). Both have variants from 23 to 33 or 34 points. Neither one is great a long range, a max of 2 damage for the Ice Ferret and 1 for the Phantom, but each has multiple variants that can get 4 damage at medium/short. The Phantom H gets 5/1/0 damage and the C gets 6/6/0 damage. You may only get 1 or 2 shots with them before they become priority targets, but they will put a hurting on anyone and can one-shot some lights & mediums.

[Colt Ward]

I am thinking of organizing a Warden Wolf secondline trinary for late Jihad, something like the original make up of the 13th Wolf Guards- surviving oldsters along with some ristars fresh out of the sibkos.  It would be provisional with the tempo of operations, plugged into Clusters that had taken serious losses so it would bring them closer to their paper strength.  For that purpose it will be heavier machines drawn from replacement equipment in that timeframe.

Legacy Provisional Trinary (Scarred Wolves)
Logo- One-eyed scarred wolf

Command Star (Headhunters)
Hellstar
Cygnus
Glass Spider
Warhammer IIC 3
Elemental, w/transport

Strike Star
Marauder IIC
Scylla
Hunchback IIC 3
Guillotine IIC
Elemental, w/transport

Rogue Star
Arctic Wolf
Pack Hunter
Solitaire
Locust IIC 4
Veh Point- SM1 Tank Destroyers

I can put most of this force on a table- just missing a Cygnus, Glass Spider, SM1 Destroyers, and Locust IIC 4 though the MWDA one could stand in.  And the Scylla needs to be put together, lol.

This sort of trinary would, IMO typically move to action with the first two stars forward and the Rogue star behind them waiting for contact to be made.  Once contact is made they swing left or right to flank the opposition.  Biggest downside is a lack of ECM or even sensors . . . which tends to be the case on older Clan secondline gear- might replace the SM1s for something appropriately old with it, I was originally thinking SL-era machine.  Transport would be a Mercer & Confederate (Rogue Star) and the unit would be veteran/fanatical.

[SteveRestless]

Me, I like a little more homogeneity in my units(personal preference), stuff that can share parts, but at least they seem to more or less move with each other. And you'll get that no-two-alike thing in the Jihad I suppose.

[Colt Ward]

Well, they do have weapons in common . . . 5 mechs using ERPPC, 2 with ATMs, 2 with Small Heavy Lasers, 2 use SRMs and a few with MPLs & ERMLs for secondaries. . .

Most ammo dependent are the Glass Spider and Arctic Wolf followed by the Scylla, Cygnus and Hunchback IIC 3.

[SteveRestless]

Inactive Bloodname discussions elsewhere got me to thinking.

Thanks to not really doing anything in the MWDA Lore that CGL can not contradict, the Council of Six is pretty ineffectual, and the IS Clans are pretty free, more or less, to do things however they please. The Bears and Exiles have created Spheroid Bloodhouses and seemingly faced no repercussions for it.

So, what I've started pondering is what it'd be like if the Wolves started reactivating Widowmaker bloodlines to bulk up the number of Trueborn warriors they have now that they are residents of the inner sphere and there is a much larger population disparity. Obviously there's a ~15-21 year lead-time on sibkos.

Personally I think my approach would be to reactivate the more prominent Widowmaker lines, but alloy them with mid-tier Wolf lines. I think this would provide a chance for strength, while taking steps to redeem the lines from the tarnish that comes from them having to be absorbed to begin with.

[Scotty]

Why would you bother reactivating old bloodlines?  It's not like there's a limit on the number of sibkos you can make out of one particular genetic legacy.  If the issue is "not enough Trueborns", just make more from the bloodlines already active.  Two hundred years of selective breeding later, any active bloodline is going to be significantly better than most Widowmaker bloodlines.  And if they're not, you might as well give up on the concept altogether because it's clearly not working.

[SteveRestless]

Here's where I'm coming from on that...

Yes they are going to be a bit dated due to inactivity, HOWEVER, they are still going (in the clan mind) to be better than only relying on Spheroid warriors, quiaff? Alloying them with middle-of-the-road active wolf names is going to compensate some for their datedness, the reactivated lines will simply provide a novel source of genetic possibilities.

Simply jacking up the number of sibkos produced for already active names is going to make competition over bloodnames absolutely savage, to a frankly unnecessary degree. Either you wind up with a lot of disenfranchised unbloods with no viable route to glory, and I can even see having a bloodname becoming something of a target-on-your-back as warriors look for ways to free up Legacies to fight for. OR you decrease the value of these bloodnames by propagating beyond 25 slots, a thing which I imagine they would be reluctant to do.

Reactivating old, inactive lines and propagating your existing houses up to 25 allows you more trueborns without skewing the blood/unblood ratio in that fashion.

[Scotty]

There's no way in hell the Trueborn component of the Wolf touman is larger now than it was in the days immediately before REVIVAL, especially since Trueborn solamha are no longer required for garrison duty.  How many Bloodnames does Wolf still control?  It has to be upwards of 20, which is still 500 Bloodnamed warriors with full Bloodhouses.  Unless you want Bloodnamed warriors to be present in multiples per Star, which has never been something born out in the setting outside of things like Natasha Kerensky's personal command Star on Tukayyid, then there are already plenty of spots to go around.

[SteveRestless]

I am not thinking about their state today in 3145, I am thinking about a theoretical 3175, or 3195, or 3250, when it's certainly possible that the Wolves might be ilClan, and might have much more territory to oversee, duties to fulfill.

[Scotty]

At that point why wouldn't you want that kind of competition?  It's going to be the primary method of keeping warriors who otherwise have no concrete enemy under control and in-line.  The Wolf Empire has had absolutely no qualms about using freeborn or even Inner Sphere native troops into their PGCs, and it'd be baffling to think they'd stop that just because they became ilClan.

[SteveRestless]

I was really more interested in the "How would you go about it?" than the "why bother?", but oh well, at least it's a discussion.

Being fine with using Freeborn and Spheroid troops is hardly the same as being fine with Trueborn primacy fading out. The entire clan touman is a tiny drop in the bucket compared to the realms the clans find themselves managing now. I look at the lesser galaxies and clusters of the Wolf Empire, the ones comprised of local militia forces that are held together mainly by the Free Worlders distrusting the Lyrans and the Lyrans distrusting the Free Worlders, and I start wanting every vat-born warrior I can get my hands on, and then some.

[Colt Ward]

Actually for Clan sensibilities having the extra bloodnames and making all the 'current' active bloodnames full provides a larger officer corp . . . it means you can have less unblooded Star Colonels (or none) and fewer unblooded Star Captains.

The other thing is that the number of active bloodnames and MAYBE bloodhouses dropped after the Jihad.  From that other discussion no page was ever offered to back the assertion that Invasion Wolf had not been using some Widowmaker bloodnames since the absorption.

I would expect a expansion of the breeding program, perhaps offering Bloodhouses Trials of Propagation to increase their active bloodname counts closer to 25- or at least the ones the Crusader Wolves have a controlling interest in.  The Crusader Wolves' Dark Age campaigns have offered the best chance for warriors to prove themselves in the Jihad, MAYBE the Invasion considering the taint on the Jihad.

I could also see a very smart and knowledgeable Alaric start holding Trials of Propagation to create new houses . . . structure wise IMO it might be something like the Galaxy Commanders and maybe frontline Star Colonels select a freebirth to compete in a Trial of Bloodname like a Bloodhouse would hold.

[Deadborder]

I'll agree that there's no reason for the Wolf Empire to reactivate dormant Bloodnames. In fact, of the Council of Six, they're probably the Clan that has the least reason to right now. They've massively expanded their millitary, yes, but that's been done through the recruitment of Freeborns from their Empire. They've been able to raise entire galaxies from Marik and Lyran worlds, so it's not like they have a dire shortage of trueborn warriors. And they've also been happy to let such adoptees rise to the level of Star Colonel, so it's clear that they trust them. Hell, there are Freeborn Galaxies (eg Theta) that are considered to be "better" then Trueborn ones (eg Kappa).

if the Wovles feel that there is some really direful shortage of Bloodnamed warriors, then it's much easier to simply increase the active Blood Count of a Bloodname then reactivate a dormant one. Remember that by 3145, few if any Bloodnames used by the Council of Six clans have their full 25 active linages so it's not like they're going to be butting up against hard limits any time soon. Given that not even Kerensky has been able to maintain its full 25 (or 50 or whatever) Bloodnamed warriors, then clearly there's a lot of room for the current crop of bloodnames to up the count.

Finally, you have to consider that the Wolves may no longer even have the genetic material from said inactive bloodnames. Remember that their primary IS Genetic Repository was nuked by the Word on Tamar. It's entirely possible that they lost a lot of material there from those dormant bloodnames, especially given the subsequent destruction of their homeworld holdings.

On a realted note, I was surprised to find that pre-Jihad Wolf had effectively the second lowest number of exclusive bloodnames with a mere ten. It only comes up to fifteen with the five Widowmaker ones they reactivated prior to REVIVAL. I have to wonder why theirs was so particularly low.

[Colt Ward]

Yeah, that Winson was not a exclusive was a bit off . . . IMO it comes down to the ties to the Coyotes, we are given a lot they share.

[SteveRestless]

Finally, you have to consider that the Wolves may no longer even have the genetic material from said inactive bloodnames. Remember that their primary IS Genetic Repository was nuked by the Word on Tamar. It's entirely possible that they lost a lot of material there from those dormant bloodnames, especially given the subsequent destruction of their homeworld holdings.

Well, the Empire may or may not have a full set, but the Wolves in Exile do. Ulric sent a copy of everything they had with Phelan and the Exiles. Could always trial them for copies, or wrest them from the Falcons when Arc Royal falls.

On a realted note, I was surprised to find that pre-Jihad Wolf had effectively the second lowest number of exclusive bloodnames with a mere ten. It only comes up to fifteen with the five Widowmaker ones they reactivated prior to REVIVAL. I have to wonder why theirs was so particularly low.

Success attracts moochers?

Actually for Clan sensibilities having the extra bloodnames and making all the 'current' active bloodnames full provides a larger officer corp . . . it means you can have less unblooded Star Colonels (or none) and fewer unblooded Star Captains.

Yes, this is more of what I was thinking.

The other thing is that the number of active bloodnames and MAYBE bloodhouses dropped after the Jihad.  From that other discussion no page was ever offered to back the assertion that Invasion Wolf had not been using some Widowmaker bloodnames since the absorption.

Yeah, this is true, the plot did (for no seeming good reason at all) demand that the clans winnow their bloodnames in the wake of the Jihad/WoR. Never made much sense to me for them to be doing that. Just seemed like it was done to fit with the "Game's smaller now" paradigm.

I could also see a very smart and knowledgeable Alaric start holding Trials of Propagation to create new houses . . . structure wise IMO it might be something like the Galaxy Commanders and maybe frontline Star Colonels select a freebirth to compete in a Trial of Bloodname like a Bloodhouse would hold.

Also possible, particularly following a momentous event like taking Terra (and holding it), I could make the case of "these Freeborn warriors distinguished themselves in our campaign to take Terra, an event as monumental as Operation Klondike, they deserve the chance at recognition." AND, if he DOES take Terra, he will be ilKhan, by virtue of leading the ilClan, and Bloodname Creation IS a right of the ilKhan.

That would make for some very interesting trials though. I can see what you're going for, structuring it like that.

[Scotty]

I don't understand the "more bloodlines = more/better officers" part.  Having a Bloodname doesn't make you a good officer, being a good officer increases your chances of getting a Bloodname. ???  If you're activating bloodlines that don't perform as well due to the ceaseless march of progress and time, you're going to experience a net decrease in the quality of your officer corps, not an increase.

[Deadborder]

I guess that the pre-REVIVAL Wolves were just worse at protecting their Bloodnames then anyone else. At least the Coyotes had an excuse for their small bloodname count.

Aaaaaanyway...

There are a number of reasons for the lower active bloodcount among the Council of 6 Clans. The first and foremost is the damage done by the Wars of Reaving; bloodlines being 'tainted', Bloodnames being targeted by genetic diseases, sheer staggering losses on a scale that the Clans had never experienced before and so on. The result is that there's a massive drop off in the number of warriors that are active in the Clans, and with many Bloodnames being all but extinct. There's not much value in having twenty-five active Bloodrights when there's only half a dozen warriors to hold them.

Added to that is the post-war environment that results in everyone - Clans included - having smaller millitaries. Keeping the number of active Bloodrights up would result in far greater numbers of bloodnamed warriors. The result would be a dilution of that Bloodname's political power and standing as there's going to be a greater proportional number of warriors walking around with that name. (And let's be honest here, Bloodnames are as much about politics as everything else). Reducing the active bloodcount is a way of keeping a bloodname 'strong' by stopping legacies begin handed out to every Tom, Dick and Harry that comes along.

There's definitely a strong case for increasing the number of bloodrights, yes. not going to argue that. Get more of them up to their full 25 (If possible; the implication seemed to be to me that there was something 'wrong' with Kerensky) to deal with a larger warrior population, but at the same time, there's still no pressing need to reactivate dead ones. And yeah, I can see a good case for 'rewarding' Freeborns/Adoptees with the formation of their own bloodname, but again, that's far more practical then reactivating a dead bloodname. After all, if it's dead, it's probably dead for a reason.

Finally, there's definitely no need for Bloodnamed officers among the Wolves right now. Again, they have Galaxies full of freeborn warriors who can never earn bloodnames. Theta has one bloodnamed officer at the rank of Star Colonel or above, and that's the Galaxy commander. Yet at the same time, by all reports, Theta has been very successful. If the Wolves were getting all whiney about a lack of bloodnamed officers, then it's the sort of thing that would have been mentioned.

I don't understand the "more bloodlines = more/better officers" part.  Having a Bloodname doesn't make you a good officer, being a good officer increases your chances of getting a Bloodname. ???  If you're activating bloodlines that don't perform as well due to the ceaseless march of progress and time, you're going to experience a net decrease in the quality of your officer corps, not an increase.

Pretty much this. More does not mean better.

Well, the Empire may or may not have a full set, but the Wolves in Exile do. Ulric sent a copy of everything they had with Phelan and the Exiles. Could always trial them for copies, or wrest them from the Falcons when Arc Royal falls.

Hey guys, we're surrounded on all sides by hostile enemies. We're busy prepping for the biggest and most important campaign of our history; taking Sacred Terra. And to do that we need to cross the invisible wall in space that eats Warships and fight an enemy that we have no intel on at all. So you know what we should do?

Send a chunk of our forces halfway across hostile space to fight our enemies for access to genetic legacies that nobody's used for a century or more?

Exactly!

Brilliant!

[Colt Ward]

Well . . . IMO it would have made sense for them to make Trials for what was lost during the Scouring and what could not be taken from the Homeworlds in the midst of the Reavings.  The interesting story there would delve into individual Bloodhouse's power IN the Crusader Wolves, because its not as simple as sitting on Strana Mechty and sending out a message any more.  The Crusader Wolves would have to go through either some of Lyran space or fight their way through Falcon space to reach Arc Royal . . . you are talking at least a two cluster campaign- perhaps up to a light galaxy with some strong Aero assets.

Unless it was done during the period the Crusaders & Wardens were working together to build the Isegrim attack ships.

[ColBosch]

A quick two cents on the issue of more Bloodnames: The Bloodnamed are basically the Clans' equivalent of nobility. As such, since the Invading Clans now have large "commoner" fighting contingents, they don't really need more Bloodnamed troops.

[wantec]

Well . . . IMO it would have made sense for them to make Trials for what was lost during the Scouring and what could not be taken from the Homeworlds in the midst of the Reavings.  The interesting story there would delve into individual Bloodhouse's power IN the Crusader Wolves, because its not as simple as sitting on Strana Mechty and sending out a message any more.  The Crusader Wolves would have to go through either some of Lyran space or fight their way through Falcon space to reach Arc Royal . . . you are talking at least a two cluster campaign- perhaps up to a light galaxy with some strong Aero assets.

Unless it was done during the period the Crusaders & Wardens were working together to build the Isegrim attack ships.

What was lost during the Scouring? Of Tamar? Every piece of genetic material was lost, the repository was completely destroyed. Vlad hid that fact from the other Clans until his Watch mission secured the copies in the Homeworlds and the originals. They gave the Jennifer Winson originals to the Coyotes, but took everything else for themselves and left no trace behind. That's what the big event at the Kerensky Bloodchapel was, a cover for the extraction of the original copies of the founders.

[Colt Ward]

I know Kerensky's genes were smuggled out . . . but that was also not a sample from EVERY Bloodnamed or even Kerensky decanted.  So as Deadborder was saying there are chunks missing in their legacies because not everything got out as I understand it.  However Ulric sent a complete copy as of '57 (maybe '56) to Phelan to join him in the IS . . . and Natasha gave him a final set as they said good bye.

So while they may have gotten the each Bloodname Founder's original sample, and I am not sure the minors were covered as well or were able to escape, they missed all those in between.  So the warriors who were proven outstanding during Revival but died during the Refusal, be they Warden or Crusader, were lost.  Even considering if all the Bloodname founders were recovered, you miss the nearly two centuries of warriors since the Founding.  The ONLY other legacies they would be able to get would be those who were Bloodnamed in the touman . . . right as they are engaged with the Horses, Blakists and dealing with Scientist caste meddling.

They would also not have all the samples won or captured from other Clans since the Founding.