Author Topic: Reunification War Info  (Read 24218 times)

St.George

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #30 on: 21 February 2011, 04:54:57 »
I forget who siad it early in this thread,,,but Amaris "Was Not" a citizen of the TH and thus his coup couldn't have been a civil war by definition.
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Dirk Bastion

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #31 on: 21 February 2011, 04:59:33 »
I forget who siad it early in this thread,,,but Amaris "Was Not" a citizen of the TH and thus his coup couldn't have been a civil war by definition.
The Amaris family had dual citizenship - he was a TH citizen as well as a RWR citizen.

St.George

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #32 on: 21 February 2011, 05:42:01 »
but the General public sees him a RWR leader,or they would have called it a "Civil War" right from the begining,,,,not to mention call it that from the canon point of view.
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roosterboy

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #33 on: 21 February 2011, 05:56:27 »
but the General public sees him a RWR leader,or they would have called it a "Civil War" right from the begining,,,,not to mention call it that from the canon point of view.

"The civil war claimed more than 100 million people." — The Star League, p95
"The Council Lords, who shared none of their citizens' guilt for having stayed aloof from the civil war, fought among themselves for power." — Ibid.
"Troops of the Rim Worlds Republic launched one of their most relentless attacks to take Quantico. The tenacious defense by the three CAAN regiments became one of the most stirring stories to come out of the dark days of the Civil War." — Ibid., p171
"During the Civil War, Helen was placed under the control of the Burning Tygers, a mercenary band of criminals and outcast soldiers of the Capellan Confederation." — Ibid., p173
"The SLDF built several important research stations on [Murchison], basically to study time stress. These institutes were not heavily damaged by the Civil War, and much information was left behind after General Kerensky's Exodus." — Ibid., p174

"The battle to regain Terra was by far the most bloody of the entire civil war." — ComStar, p8
"While making their own efforts to gear up for war, they had lifted not a finger to rebuild Terra, and the world's population was struggling simply to stay alive in the aftermath of the devastating civil war and occupation by the Amaris troops." — Ibid., p9
"The civil war was over, but the Star League had collapsed." — Ibid., p11
"In at least three direct statements [Jerome Blake] lays the blame for the destruction of the Star League on the secession of New Vandenburg and 17 other Periphery worlds, the spark that ultimately ignited the great- est civil war mankind had ever seen." — Ibid., p14

And that's just from two sourcebooks.

Adam Vagus

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #34 on: 21 February 2011, 07:02:58 »
I can't wait for Reunification War and a source book on the Amaris War to come out.



Oh and Rooserboy, your avatar scares me.

cray

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #35 on: 21 February 2011, 07:43:01 »
but the General public sees him a RWR leader,or they would have called it a "Civil War" right from the begining,,,,not to mention call it that from the canon point of view.

In addition to Roosterboy's point that this was a true civil war, Amaris had to have the backing of the general Hegemony public to be able to fight so long against Kerensky. After all, Amaris's initial set of troops had their homes conquered and families held hostage by the SLDF at the start of the conflict. Amaris wasn't going to hold the Hegemony so tenaciously without lots and lots of local help: local factories, local shipyards, local personnel to fill out his ranks, and that local help was dedicated enough to keep the shooting phase of the war going for about 8 years.

It's important to look at Amaris from the eyes of the Hegemony public before the coup. He was a Hegemony citizen; countless Hegemony citizens settled safely in his lands (driving the huge expansion of the Rim Worlds); he was unswervingly local to the Hegemony; and the current Hegemony leader was a spoiled brat who made really, really dumb decisions that endangered the Hegemony's prestige and ability to control the Star League.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

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Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

Adam Vagus

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #36 on: 21 February 2011, 08:21:49 »
The only 'dumb' decision I remember him making is insisting that the House Thugs disband their illegally enlarged armies so if there's anything else he did that was stupid besides sulking like a brat instead of fighting back when the House Thugs shot him down it's news ta me.

Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #37 on: 21 February 2011, 08:23:19 »
I think that was the only thing mentioned in the older sourcebooks, but IIRC the SLSB says he was a bad ruler overall.
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roosterboy

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #38 on: 21 February 2011, 11:13:59 »
The only 'dumb' decision I remember him making is insisting that the House Thugs disband their illegally enlarged armies so if there's anything else he did that was stupid besides sulking like a brat instead of fighting back when the House Thugs shot him down it's news ta me.

He pulled all SLDF forces out of the RWR and turned over all their bases.
He disbanded the High Council.
He increased the tax burden on the Periphery and sent Kerensky to enforce it.
He signed a secret treaty with Amaris for Rim Worlds regiments to take over the defense of the Hegemony if a crisis arose.
He asked the House Lords to use their own militaries to put down the Periphery rebellion after snubbing them for two years and creating the crisis by his own actions.
He ordered SLDF officers to let Rim Worlds observers learn everything they wanted about SLDF operations.
He threatened to imprison any officer or noble who publicly doubted Amaris' loyalty.

cray

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #39 on: 21 February 2011, 13:12:55 »
A couple of more points:

During Richard Cameron's childhood, the House Lords ran rampant with their expansion of House militaries, which undermined a core principle of the Star League - that the Hegemony and the SLDF ruled supreme. There was domestic unrest over this; as noted on pg73 SLSB, droves of skilled Star League diplomats and other government officials resigned in disgust at the Regency's mistakes, such as elevated Periphery taxes.

And then there's Richard Cameron's Executive Order 156: Disarm all House militaries down to the level of personal weapons, which created an epic shit storm in the High Council, turned Kerensky against Cameron, and embarrassed the Hegemony. This is also where Cameron disbanded the High Council and tried to rule by decree (leading to some of the things Roosterboy mentioned, like even further increased Periphery taxes).
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

**"A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything." --Wash, Firefly.
**"Well, the first class name [for pocket WarShips]: 'Ship with delusions of grandeur that is going to evaporate 3.1 seconds after coming into NPPC range' tended to cause morale problems...." --Korzon77
**"Describe the Clans." "Imagine an entire civilization built out of 80’s Ric Flairs, Hulk Hogans, & Macho Man Randy Savages ruling over an entire labor force with Einstein Level Intelligence." --Jake Mikolaitis


Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

Maelwys

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #40 on: 21 February 2011, 17:31:30 »
According to the Periphery Sourcebook the SLDF had 270 line regiments and 50 capital warships organized into 10 Corps. Each Corps had 3 divisions of 3 brigades of 3 regiments of 3 battalions of 3 companies. It also says that Line regiments are regulars so I would think that Royal and support units aren't counted in that number.

That should be 500 Capital Warships, not 50, btw :)

Bad_Syntax

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #41 on: 22 February 2011, 01:08:16 »
Yeah, 500 capital ships, typo :)

While I was thinking each warship would be its own counter, which is feasible in 3050-3100 or during Klondike, during these time frames there were far more warships.  I think in any timeframe before the 2nd Succession War warships would have to be grouped into squadrons of 4-8, as there are just so many.  In this case the SLDF would have about 80 of the warship squadrons, the Taurian Concordat maybe 30.  This is in addition to jumpship squadrons (3-6 JS each) and dropship flotillas (10-15 DS each).

I really don't see how the SLDF could have spent 20 years, with 108 regiments (vs probably around 20), aerospace superiority, AND reserves, conquering 55 worlds.  Heck, 4+ years attacking  Flannagan's Nebulae to make it through "rings of defenses" seems pretty long, especially when my game would have weekly turns.  That is 100 turns of battle on a single hex, granted each turn may just be 1-2 die rolls, it would make the game pretty non-fun.

I am beginning to think the reunification war just isn't very realistic to model, at least not compared to later wars when entire planets were conquered in days, not years.  Heck, the SLDF even used nukes and it took that long!


So I went through the Klondike book.  I am having a rough time seeing how a mere 15-16 battalions of mechs, with 4-5 battalions of vehicles/infantry/aerospace fighters could possibly have taken on 134 battalions of defenders.  That is a 1:7 ratio!  45 of those battalions were veterans and only 11 green, the other 77 battalions were regular.  Granted, those defensive battalions weren't 100% mech, and may be possibly 33% mech, but even that is a 1:3 ratio, which is pretty poor considering all the defenses the pentagon worlds had.  That would have been offset by the clan infighting and lack of working together in many cases.  However in my game the worlds would have been conquered in 22-43 turns, much more reasonable.  The one thing that could "fix" this is the numerous mentions of "reserves", but no clue as to how many were actually available.  If a battalion of 40 mechs had a reserve of equal or greater size, the ratio could be accepted, as the pentagon worlds had no way to replace losses. 

Any game built for Operation Klondike I think would just have a full map of each world, without much in the way of interstellar combat.  Clans would be broken down into stars, for a total of 160 clan counters, vs 403 company level counters for the pentagon worlds (or 32 and 81 per planet).  Warships would always be available, and orbital bombardment could be used at well for a victory point cost, as could nuclear weapons.  Good news is with this scale turns could still be a week, we actually have maps and characteristics on all 5 planets, a pretty good breakdown of clan formations (7 mech stars + 1 fighter star per clan unless otherwise stated (8 of 20 clans don't match that), we know almost all clanners are elite (a few vets in there) and the quality and size of all the pentagon military formations.  What we don't have is the composition of the pentagon forces, or their regions on the planet.  However since I'm pretty sure nothing will ever be published on Klondike again, I could freely "fill in the gaps" without worrying about conflicting any future canon :)  Also, since there is no necessity for espionage, economy, politics, and really even supplies, all those rules could be left out to make for a simpler game.

As for the whole atrocities off-topic part of the thread, I never said our enemies didn't commit atrocities, but they never did it against the USA, yet we felt it totally righteous to commit atrocities against them.  It is not necessary for an unconditional surrender when your enemy no longer has the ability to make war, and you control their logistical base and can destroy their production and resources at will.  War is stupid, nobody in their right mind who knows or has experienced it would say anything otherwise, and no matter how you spin it war is never justified based on the lives lost on either side.  Start up a new thread for comments on this ;)

So, anybody interested in my continuing development of a game for Klondike since I had to give up on the Reunification war?

Or should I just stop wasting time and work on the computer version?

Or should I get a new hobby? :)
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Maelwys

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #42 on: 22 February 2011, 04:43:58 »
Yeah, 500 capital ships, typo :)

I really don't see how the SLDF could have spent 20 years, with 108 regiments (vs probably around 20), aerospace superiority, AND reserves, conquering 55 worlds.  Heck, 4+ years attacking  Flannagan's Nebulae to make it through "rings of defenses" seems pretty long, especially when my game would have weekly turns.  That is 100 turns of battle on a single hex, granted each turn may just be 1-2 die rolls, it would make the game pretty non-fun.

I am beginning to think the reunification war just isn't very realistic to model, at least not compared to later wars when entire planets were conquered in days, not years.  Heck, the SLDF even used nukes and it took that long!

Well, I think you're off with regards to the forces. The MoC had 17 BattleMech regiments alone. How those were built exactly, we don't know, but the Star League had 42 Regiments, which is only around two and a half times the MoC forces. They may have had superior forces, but in the MoC's case atleast, it didn't quite reach overwhelming superiority. Combine that with unexpected resistance from the Periphery, some good old fashioned luck and tactics...

Not to mention this was pre-HPG, so everything was done by the Pony Express.

You're also way off on the number of worlds. I think the TC alone was close to 50 Worlds.

FedComGirl

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #43 on: 22 February 2011, 07:08:24 »
Quote
In addition to Roosterboy's point that this was a true civil war, Amaris had to have the backing of the general Hegemony public to be able to fight so long against Kerensky. After all, Amaris's initial set of troops had their homes conquered and families held hostage by the SLDF at the start of the conflict. Amaris wasn't going to hold the Hegemony so tenaciously without lots and lots of local help: local factories, local shipyards, local personnel to fill out his ranks, and that local help was dedicated enough to keep the shooting phase of the war going for about 8 years.

It's important to look at Amaris from the eyes of the Hegemony public before the coup. He was a Hegemony citizen; countless Hegemony citizens settled safely in his lands (driving the huge expansion of the Rim Worlds); he was unswervingly local to the Hegemony; and the current Hegemony leader was a spoiled brat who made really, really dumb decisions that endangered the Hegemony's prestige and ability to control the Star League.

I am sure that many Hegemony citizens supported him. However just as many more were killed and replaced by his troops or captured and forced to work for him. HPG personnel on Earth died tied to their controls.



Quote
Well, I think you're off with regards to the forces. The MoC had 17 BattleMech regiments alone. How those were built exactly, we don't know, but the Star League had 42 Regiments, which is only around two and a half times the MoC forces. They may have had superior forces, but in the MoC's case atleast, it didn't quite reach overwhelming superiority. Combine that with unexpected resistance from the Periphery, some good old fashioned luck and tactics...

Not to mention this was pre-HPG, so everything was done by the Pony Express.

You're also way off on the number of worlds. I think the TC alone was close to 50 Worlds.

The Taurians also had a near parity in number of ships the SLDF had in their area, plus a large number of space defenses. In a defensive battle the Taurians had the SLDF out numbered in space at least for much of the war. The outworlds alliance had covert help from the Davions. The fighting wasn't solely soldier against soldier either. The SLDF was fighting the entire population of the periphery realms. The SLDF also had to worry about supply lines because the planetary populations wouldn't help them.

cray

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #44 on: 22 February 2011, 07:32:24 »
I am sure that many Hegemony citizens supported him. However just as many more were killed and replaced by his troops or captured and forced to work for him. HPG personnel on Earth died tied to their controls.

Oh, yes. Amaris committed many atrocities during his reign. He wasn't very popular by the end.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

**"A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything." --Wash, Firefly.
**"Well, the first class name [for pocket WarShips]: 'Ship with delusions of grandeur that is going to evaporate 3.1 seconds after coming into NPPC range' tended to cause morale problems...." --Korzon77
**"Describe the Clans." "Imagine an entire civilization built out of 80’s Ric Flairs, Hulk Hogans, & Macho Man Randy Savages ruling over an entire labor force with Einstein Level Intelligence." --Jake Mikolaitis


Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.

Dirk Bastion

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #45 on: 22 February 2011, 08:24:05 »
You're also way off on the number of worlds. I think the TC alone was close to 50 Worlds.
I counted:

Periphery RealmWorlds beforeWorlds afterwards
Magistracy of Canopus4027
Outworld Alliance4725
Rim World Republic7474
Taurus Concordat56*22*
217148

* Not counting Malagrotta.

When they were talking about bringing the Periphery home, they sure were serious about it - 1/3 wasn't even Periphery anymore afterwards. ;D

Bad_Syntax

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #46 on: 22 February 2011, 08:59:32 »
I'm counting worlds based on the maps in the periphery handbook for 2571, page 121.

The SLDF went in with 4 Corps, each corps is 27 regiments, therefore 108 regiments plus they called on reserves of the 1st and 2nd Corps (up to 54 more regiments) and the elite Star Guard corps was also eventually committed, for *another* 27 regiments.  Also, there was a "Large" Federated Suns auxiliary, so the number of regiments is far more than 100 for the SLDF, and there is no way the TC had even 50 regiments total.  We don't know the size of the TC navy, but based on losses listed and the huge 100 TC naval battle, it must have been 113.  With 500+ warships and 10 corps the SLDF ship ratio would be about 40% of those 500, so about 200 warships *plus* reserves, plus the 36+ in the FS auxiliary, plus probably another 50 attached to the Star Guard corps, and the fact the SLDF had naval superiority relatively easily, I'm betting the SLDF had 250 or so warships vs 125 or so for the TC.

I could find nowhere that a total number of regiments in the TC was listed.  There were the 3 household regiments, which were mech, and New Vandenburg had the largest garrison outside of the Hyades cluster at "8 mech and armor battalions", but other planets had just a couple battalions each it appears (2nd and 15th Fortress battalions defended Ridgebrook against 2 SLDF corps for 4 months!).  The TC was the toughest of the periphery nations, but in 2581 sometime elements of the 4th and 6th corps (the 4th was seriously damaged before this) were withdrawn to help on the RWR front, though the Star Guard corps came in after.

Excluding the light horse regiments, which was 8 battalions (7 mech, 1 infantry), all of the SLDF regiments were 33% mech, 33% armor, and 33% infantry.  I presume the ratio wouldn't be any higher for the TC.  Some of the SLDF regiments were "Royal" as well, though numbers are unknown and I could find no named "Royal" regiments (they were created during the Age of War, so they must have existed in battalion and regimental levels).
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FedComGirl

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #47 on: 22 February 2011, 10:53:25 »
Page 28 The Periphery Sourcebook

The Taurian Concordat was outnumbered in men and Battlemechs but maintained a rough parity with the SLDF in the number of Dropships and Jumpships in their area.  (I don't think they differentiated between Jumpships and Warships back then. Also the 500 SLDF Capital Warships, page 27, is for the entire SLDF Navy.)

The four Star League Corps that were transferred to the Taurian Concordat border are, the First, Third, Fourth, and Sixth. Two corps, the Second and Fifth to the Outworlds Alliance. The Seventh Corps to the Magistracy of Canopus, leaving two reserve corps and the Star Guards Corps at Terra.

The Concordat Navy attacked and destroyed over a dozen Davion warships in the Panpour System forcing the remaining three-fourths to retreat. Over two dozen Davion ships were destroyed or captured  in the Tentative System to the loss of only three Concordat ships. Those losses neutralized the Davion naval task force.

Page 29 The Periphery Handbook.
4 Taurian and 3 League ships were destroyed over Ridgebrook.
Taurian ground defenders consisted of 2 battalions (Non Mech) defending mountain fortresses with heavy artillery and missile support. Attacking were the 1st and 2nd divisions of the 1st Corps. The Taurians died taking out as many SLDF troops with them as they could.

The 1st Corps then attacked Wrentham. Taurian battalions took a heavy toll on them.

Taurians faught guerilla warfare on Keuterville with armored battalions winning against SLDF battlemechs. They hide armored vehicle in haystacks. Infantry were armed with rockets and mortars. Farmstead partisans gasoline bombs and truck mounted flame throwers. The would dig pits in fields and light mechs that had fallen in on fire.

3 light  cruisers captured by Taurian Marines. 4 Taurian destroyers rammed transports destroying the 34th Light Horse.


Page 30 The Periphery Handbook
13 Taurian and 15 League ships destroyed defending the Pleiades Cluster. The SLDF had uncontested landings on various worlds only to be attacked by wave after wave of Taurian  Regulars. Taurians would capture or destroy SLDF battlemechs in barricades in bitter contests. Women and children blocked thoroughfares while artillery rained down on attackers. By September of 2580 the 4th Corps strength had fallen 40%. The 40th Gordon  Regulars sand 18th Light Horse measured their gains in meters and centimeters. Reserves from Earth were finally dispatched after the system was conquered.

The 6th Corps occupied the Anaheim system easily only to lose control to wide spread partisan uprising.

Page 31
16 League ships were lost to the Taurians over Flintoft often from suicide runs by short range craft packed with explosives. Hundreds of Taurian conventional fighters and bombers destroyed many SLDF Battlemechs before SLDF Fighers could destroy the Taurian air contingent.

100 Taurian ships and 120 SLDF ships of the line fought over two weeks over Flintoft. 30 SLDF craft were destroyed along with the creme of the Taurian Navy. The SLDF Admiral then killed 30,000 civilians during an orbital bombardment. Taurians then abandoned cities and killed three-fourths of the invading SLDF forces, 6,000 SLDF personnel, by poisoning supplies.

Davion forces, hampered by lack of transports occupy Weippe and Pierce to hollow victories. Taurians had burned needed supplies on Weippe and set off sewer bombs under Davion troops after they occupied the capitol of Pierce.

SLDF General Wexworth facing growing Taurian intransigence  and alarmed by theh many casualties to his best regiments halted operations until reinforcements could arrive. Those reinforocements were denied and the 4th and 6th Corps were reassigned to the Rim Worlds Republic.

The war continues for another three and a half pages but I'm going to stop there because I need my beauty sleep. However, I think you can see why the SLDF had such a hard time conquering the  Taurians.

Also the number of Battlemechs mentioned in The Periphery sourcebook is probably conservative. The fluff for the Toro says that it was produced in such numbers that it was in nearly every independent unit going so far as to have entire battalions of them deployed.




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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #48 on: 03 March 2011, 16:04:19 »
I counted:

Periphery RealmWorlds beforeWorlds afterwards
Magistracy of Canopus4027
Outworld Alliance4725
Rim World Republic7474
Taurus Concordat56*22*
217148

* Not counting Malagrotta.

When they were talking about bringing the Periphery home, they sure were serious about it - 1/3 wasn't even Periphery anymore afterwards. ;D

Sorry, which maps are these based on, where they have a before and after that isn't decades or centuries later?
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Dirk Bastion

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #49 on: 03 March 2011, 17:41:02 »
Sorry, which maps are these based on, where they have a before and after that isn't decades or centuries later?
I used the maps in the Handbook: Major Periphery states - counting the planets of the 2570 era maps for the first figure, then applied the borders of 2750 to the map and counted the remaining planets for the second figure.

Hersh67

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #50 on: 03 March 2011, 20:04:39 »
Well, I think you're off with regards to the forces. The MoC had 17 BattleMech regiments alone. How those were built exactly, we don't know, but the Star League had 42 Regiments, which is only around two and a half times the MoC forces. They may have had superior forces, but in the MoC's case atleast, it didn't quite reach overwhelming superiority. Combine that with unexpected resistance from the Periphery, some good old fashioned luck and tactics...

Not to mention this was pre-HPG, so everything was done by the Pony Express.

You're also way off on the number of worlds. I think the TC alone was close to 50 Worlds.

If we're talking to the Pre-Amaris civil war era, the answer was most of the mechs were built (and mechwarriors trained) in the RWR at their secret mech production sites.  One gigantic failing of the SL Intellgence services was the fact that Amaris was going behind Cameron's back and doing all the things that he publicly said were wrong.  He made deals with all the other periphery leaders to get them mechs and their warriors trained up to speed (at the level of House warriors) so that the periphery uprising would be spectacular. 

For all Amaris's sins (and that is a long list), the guy was an absolute genius at plotting and planning.  The only real miscalculation in the entire affair was how strongly Kerensky was committed to the SL.  That and his ambush of Kerensky didn't work.  I'm not so sure that anyone else could have pulled off keeping the SLDF in action (of course, the writers/line dev having ultimate say, well, it's in the script that way  ;) ).

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #51 on: 03 March 2011, 23:47:37 »
If we're talking to the Pre-Amaris civil war era, the answer was most of the mechs were built (and mechwarriors trained) in the RWR at their secret mech production sites.  One gigantic failing of the SL Intellgence services was the fact that Amaris was going behind Cameron's back and doing all the things that he publicly said were wrong.  He made deals with all the other periphery leaders to get them mechs and their warriors trained up to speed (at the level of House warriors) so that the periphery uprising would be spectacular. 

For all Amaris's sins (and that is a long list), the guy was an absolute genius at plotting and planning.  The only real miscalculation in the entire affair was how strongly Kerensky was committed to the SL.  That and his ambush of Kerensky didn't work.  I'm not so sure that anyone else could have pulled off keeping the SLDF in action (of course, the writers/line dev having ultimate say, well, it's in the script that way  ;) ).

To achieve what he achieved, Stefan Amaris had to be a political mastermind. The more you analyze his deeds, the more you have to respect him. Evil, though he was, were he not singlehandedly responsible for the Succession Wars, he would be admired centuries later, and mentioned along with Augustus and . . . well, that may have been his only peer.

Kerensky on the other hand, was the ideal soldier. It’s a tricky situation. Kerensky was the hero of the story, so he’s remembered fondly by most of us. But when you think about it, the rest of the House Lords weren’t happy about what Amaris had done, but they would have been willing to go along with it. It was Kerensky that had to make the coup into a war. He won, so he’s venerated. I still have trouble accepting that the Republicans committed countless atrocities, while the SLDF were stalwarts of nobility. A little too black and white for my taste.
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Bad_Syntax

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #52 on: 04 March 2011, 08:13:27 »
I don't think any planets were rendered uninhabitable after the reunification war.  Most of them are described in battles, or "the sldf took X".

I think the difference in the number of planets are simply new discoveries and colonizations.  Do you see any planets on the map in 2570 that are NOT on the 2750 map?  I'm pretty sure the 2570 map is immediately before the reunification war, and the 2750 map immediately before the vandenberg uprising.  The 180 years post-reunification war had lots of new planets discovered all over the inner sphere, including the periphery.
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FedComGirl

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #53 on: 04 March 2011, 11:04:09 »
Amaris made two crucial mistakes. He executed Cameron and his entire family. Then took over. Then he committed all the atrocities to stay in power.

If Amaris had arrested and tried Cameron on crimes against the Star League and then taken over he could have had it all. Cameron did break a lot of laws. Even Kerensky got him on that. If Amaris had removed Cameron legally Kerensky would of had to support him. The Hegemony would have supported him, at least in part, as he would have been better than the unstable Cameron. Finally the house lords wouldn't have been able to do anything about it as Amaris would have had the SLDF and the support of the Periphery.


There are  planets that became uninhabitable when the Star League fell do to the results of the reunification war. A lot of periphery planets were intentionally made to be no longer self sufficient. As a consequence then the League fell they couldn't get the supplies they needed to survive.

Guardsman

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #54 on: 04 March 2011, 13:16:43 »
Trouble is, Kerensky got to know Amaris very well during his regency. Amaris spent years on Terra, at the royal court, principally to corrupt Cameron’s development. He had absolutely no respect for Amaris. He didn’t see the coup coming, but he knew Amaris was slime. I think their shared past, as much as anything, influenced Kerensky’s decision to go to war. If it had been someone else, he probably could have accepted it.
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Xotl

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #55 on: 04 March 2011, 13:59:00 »
If Amaris had arrested and tried Cameron on crimes against the Star League and then taken over he could have had it all. Cameron did break a lot of laws. Even Kerensky got him on that. If Amaris had removed Cameron legally Kerensky would of had to support him. The Hegemony would have supported him, at least in part, as he would have been better than the unstable Cameron. Finally the house lords wouldn't have been able to do anything about it as Amaris would have had the SLDF and the support of the Periphery.

Cameron had reached his majority, leaving Amaris with no other official title than "Best Bud".  Even if he was able to pull off a non-forceful arrest (and "erratic rule" is not an official crime), it wouldn't have required Kerensky to do anything, and wouldn't have given Amaris the authority to take over the League.  The normal succession mechanisms would simply have kicked in.  Amaris *might* have been able to set himself up as a regent again, if the new Cameron were underage, but I imagine Kerensky and the House Lords wouldn't have tolerated that - the arrest then becomes way to obviously self-serving.
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FedComGirl

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #56 on: 04 March 2011, 16:15:44 »
Quote
Trouble is, Kerensky got to know Amaris very well during his regency. Amaris spent years on Terra, at the royal court, principally to corrupt Cameron’s development. He had absolutely no respect for Amaris. He didn’t see the coup coming, but he knew Amaris was slime. I think their shared past, as much as anything, influenced Kerensky’s decision to go to war. If it had been someone else, he probably could have accepted it.

Yes but he was loyal to the Star League not to one person so if Amaris had legally became the Star Lord Kerensky couldn't do anything about it.


Quote
Cameron had reached his majority, leaving Amaris with no other official title than "Best Bud".  Even if he was able to pull off a non-forceful arrest (and "erratic rule" is not an official crime), it wouldn't have required Kerensky to do anything, and wouldn't have given Amaris the authority to take over the League.  The normal succession mechanisms would simply have kicked in.  Amaris *might* have been able to set himself up as a regent again, if the new Cameron were underage, but I imagine Kerensky and the House Lords wouldn't have tolerated that - the arrest then becomes way to obviously self-serving.

It was more than just erratic behavior though. Kerensky even told him that his decree that the house lords break up their armies was illegal. There were other illegal rulings made too but no one spoke out about them. Amaris could have used them and the chaos in the periphery to have Cameron removed and himself elected as Star Lord.

Dirk Bastion

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #57 on: 04 March 2011, 16:43:24 »
"Erratic rule" can easily be changed into "non compos mentis", though, much more if most of the people around actually agree with you.

Xotl

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #58 on: 04 March 2011, 16:47:38 »
Yes but he was loyal to the Star League not to one person so if Amaris had legally became the Star Lord Kerensky couldn't do anything about it.

I agree, but as I said, Amaris had no official standing whatsoever and was not in line for the succession.  There's a reason he had every last Cameron killed down to the second cousin twice removed on his mother's hairdresser's side - the Camerons were the only ones who could be First Lord (though I believe a Cameron could pick someone otherwise, but even if true that never did happen).  No matter who removes Richard, or how, Amaris doesn't get in.  The law and the House Lords would see to that.
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Bad_Syntax

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Re: Reunification War Info
« Reply #59 on: 05 March 2011, 00:36:58 »
Just FYI, the "Reunification War" is *NOT* the same as the Periphery Uprising in 2765 that led to the Amaris coup.  The "Reunification War" was the first time the SLDF took over the periphery, successfully, in a 20 year campaign in the 2500s, not the later campaign in the 2700s.
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