3057 Rules compatibility

[THEMONSTER]

How compatible are the unit designs in TRO:3057 with the current rules in Total warfare & Strategic ops? Also, does MegaMek have any pre-filled record sheets (in general not just Aerospace) or will I have to put everything through MegaMekLab.

[dgorsman]

TRO:3057, or TRO:3057 Revised?  You really want the latter.

[Weirdo]

What he said. 3057r has the most current stats available anywhere.

[THEMONSTER]

I've got TRO:3057 revised. I'm not familiar with the differences between Arotech 2 and Strategic operations, so I wasn't sure how the stats in 3057 would mesh with the current construction rules. So how many bumps and potholes can I expect while filling out the record sheets?

[Simon Landmine]

MegaMek has a lot of the units already loaded into the files (I'm not sure if there's much currently canon that's missing), so you should be OK for most stuff.

[Weirdo]

I've got TRO:3057 revised. I'm not familiar with the differences between Arotech 2 and Strategic operations, so I wasn't sure how the stats in 3057 would mesh with the current construction rules. So how many bumps and potholes can I expect while filling out the record sheets?

Record sheets? None. Just about all the changes from AT2 and StratOps are solely in the rules, not in stats.

[THEMONSTER]

Thank you much.

[Giovanni Blasini]

MegaMek has a lot of the units already loaded into the files (I'm not sure if there's much currently canon that's missing), so you should be OK for most stuff.

This.  You should be able to use MegaMekLab to print out records sheets for nearly every design in Tech Readout 3057 Revised.  Only the obscure cases should be an issue, like possibly factories or lifeboats.

[Daryk]

Lifeboats are obscure?  They're practically mandatory equipment!

[Weirdo]

How often do they see use in games as started units? Usually, all you need is to know how many a large vessel is carrying.

[Daryk]

True, but given the likelihood of them appearing on the map, you'd think they'd have stats...

[Giovanni Blasini]

True, but given the likelihood of them appearing on the map, you'd think they'd have stats...

They do.  But I don't think they lend themselves to being easily included in MegaMekLab as an item you're going to need to print out record sheets for.

[Daryk]

Good news for crews being shot up by the WoB, then...

[Giovanni Blasini]

Good news for crews being shot up by the WoB, then...

Is it really necessary to print out a full small craft record sheet per lifeboat, given they have no maneuvering drive and only a handful of points of armor each?

[Weirdo]

Do they actually appear on your maps? For my games, all interest in a ship ends once it goes boom. Actually placing lifeboats on the table and tracking their sheets sounds like an insane amount of clutter for no real reason, unless the scenario itself revolves around recovering boats.

[Daryk]

At the AToW level, it certainly matters if your character is on one of those boats...

[Giovanni Blasini]

At the AToW level, it certainly matters if your character is on one of those boats...

But does that need to be handled on the tabletop using Strategic Operations rules, requiring you to print out or fill out a complete Small Craft record sheet?

Where do you allocate the 4 points of armor that Tech Readout 3057 Revised gives it as being in a single location?  How do you document the lack of mobility?

Does MegaMekLab need the extra coding to be able to handle this nearly singular exception and support being able to print out a record sheet for it?

[Daryk]

I'd expect them to get the Infantry platoon treatment for record sheets, honestly...

[Giovanni Blasini]

I'd expect them to get the Infantry platoon treatment for record sheets, honestly...

Except no such sheet has ever been published, nor rules to account for them as such.  So now you've got to have MegaMek's developers write their own, and include even more code, to accommodate such a scenario for just the lifeboat and escape pod.

[Daryk]

Shouldn't need much code, but I haven't coded in a long time, so I could be wrong.  Record sheet wise, I'm thinking a single page for both (just like any individual platoon can be jump or foot or otherwise).

[Weirdo]

And as Gio said, where are the published rules that support such a treatment? Trust me, they're not in StratOps.

[Daryk]

Uh... StratOps page 27, under "Large Craft" lays out putting them on the map and mentions 1 SI and 4 armor each...

[Hammer]

In the 47.6 version of Megamek we've got "Abandon Ship" coded so playable in Megamek is the ability to shoot up life boats and escape pods.

As for printing we are committed to being able to print every unit that is print able to a record sheet. But one the issues from 3057r is lots of the ships were made with the old AT2r rules. So when we made them in MML, which has the current StratOps rules somethings we had to fix. Lots of the small craft (life boat, escape pods) don't fit the modern construction rules. But I've attached a Life RS to see.

Last note as of the NEXT release of MML (0.47.7) you'll be able to print and build all these unit types

[Daryk]

Thanks Hammer... I still think an Infantry-like record sheet would make more sense, but that's certainly better than nothing!  :thumbsup:

[Wolf72]

stoopid McAfee ... "ooh that looks dangerous"

What was the difference between the lifeboat and escape pod? ... thought they held a certain amount of crew, and the pod had some thrusters and was able to enter atmo then land (crash).

[Daryk]

That is exactly the difference.  The Life Boat's advantage is that it can keep everybody aboard alive longer.

[Wolf72]

so either sit in space and hope you get picked up (7 days food?)

or get launched ala Starship Troopers Movie into bug city (but bigger pod)

[Daryk]

There really aren't any good options if your ride gets shot out from under you...

[Giovanni Blasini]

Both evidently pack about two weeks worth of food.  The difference is the lifeboat can maintain life support for 30 days, and has electrical power provided by a solar "sail" that also makes it easier to find.

An escape pod is actually a surprisingly capable little spacecraft, with 4/6 thrust and 10 points of fuel, enough for 3000 meters/second delta-v.  For perspective, it's got performance comparable to thr Apollo CSM, the combined command and service modules, packed into a mass comparable to the command module alone, and carrying as many people as the proposed Apollo CM escape pod:

http://www.astronautix.com/a/apollocmescapeconcept.html

[Liam's Ghost]

An escape pod is actually a surprisingly capable little spacecraft, with 4/6 thrust and 10 points of fuel, enough for 3000 meters/second delta-v. 

This gave me a dumb idea for a house rules weapon system.

[Weirdo]

Makes you wonder how often escape pods are used as short range shuttles for transfer of very small numbers of personnel or light cargo.

[Giovanni Blasini]

According to DropShips & JumpShips, which has the most detailed writeups of the Escape Pod and Lifeboat, very frequently, usually in the form of one's with larger-than-usual viewports.

Escape pods almost strike me, based on their price, as being the civilian commuter car of the orbital habitat.

[Daryk]

If Fiat makes them, that would be hilarious!  Cinque Cento FTW!  :thumbsup:

[Maingunnery]

I can imagine an internal transport system (of a SS/DS/WS) using lifeboats as passenger compartments.
During an evacuation it would be easy to get people in, and it would be possible to route them towards the safest exit point. 

[Hellraiser]

This might be an oversimplification, but IIRC per the fluff from DS&JS.....

The Life Boat was sort of like a Jump Ship in that it didn't move much & was basically just a floating oxygen container waiting to be picked up.

The Escape pod was similar to what you saw in Starwars where it had boosters & could maneuver or descend to the planetary surface.

I don't recall for sure but I want to say maybe the crew space was different too,  5-7 or 7-10 or something like that.  Or maybe it was nicer on board the life boat since it didn't have engines.

From an RPG perspective they made sense, from an AT1/2 perspective they were just fluffed as "Sending out units to capture them"

[Daryk]

Tech Manual pages 216 (Escape Pod) and 227 (Lifeboat) says 7 personnel for both, though the Escape Pod says both 6 and 7 maximum (personally, I take that to mean there are six SEATS, and a seventh can be crammed in on the floor, likely to be injured when landing).  Maritime lifeboats and escape pods can support 10, but they don't have to provide an atmosphere.  StratOps page 27 also has this line that seems to be at odds with Tech Manual:

Parachutes allow lifeboats and escape pods to land if they enter a ground hex with at least 1 point of standard-scale armor remaining.

[kindalas]

This gave me a dumb idea for a house rules weapon system.

I feel like that was done in one of the Northwind Highlander books where they fought the Smoke Jaguars for the Draconis Combine.