Author Topic: MotW: Vulcan  (Read 4806 times)

JadeHellbringer

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MotW: Vulcan
« on: 17 November 2023, 09:04:00 »

You're either a Vulcan, or a Vulcan't. You choose.

Few units in Battletech are as poorly-understood by the average player as infantry. They're slow, they tend to have very short ranged attacks, they're easily squished, and that makes them appear frail and useless. Nothing could be further from the truth- in fact, a smartly-used infantry force can prove to be an absolute game-changer in a game, and at a strategic scale hordes of infantry can be trained and fielded for the resources that it would take to put even a simple Locust onto the battlefield. The result is that while anti-infantry forces may not be a priority for most players, there's something to be said for having a plan in case the swarms of angry rifle-toters pour out of the urban jungle- and that's where units like the Stinger come in handy. But sometimes you need something a little more versatile and a little tougher than the vaunted bugs- enter the Vulcan.

Another of the horde of designs to come from the SLDF campaign against Amaris, the Vulcan was intended to help clear hostile ground troops from the path of other SLDF forces, which oftentimes weren't equipped with anti-infantry weaponry (Kerensky's Orion, for example) beyond stomping attacks. As such, the unit needed to be quick enough to get to trouble spots, able to clear obstacles such as buildings with jump jets, and be able to survive an encounter with the infantry it was intended to kill. To their credit, the designers got it right- with some odd choices along the way, mind you.


The standard model Vulcan, the VL-2T, weighs in at 40 tons, the low end of the medium weight class. No need for a big 55-tonner in this role, after all. A 6/9 movement curve allows the gangly machine to kick its heels up to get where it needs to go, pacing bug Mechs and other smaller units without any trouble- if dealing with dug-in infantry, it sucks to have to wait for the removal-service to arrive, after all. A 180-meter jump capability gives the Vulcan the ability to hop over even respectably-sized obstacles with ease, important especially in an infantry-fighting role since infantry work best in urban environments. This all sounds pretty good so far, right?

Vulcans look frail and wispy, and it's understandable for players to look at it and think it's probably an easy kill. You'd be surprised though- they're not exactly going to make anyone think of a Battlemaster, but at 40 tons, it's... okay, not great still. Remember though that this is a unit not really intending to take on other Mechs- we should be taking on infantry, and that means widely-scattered small hits. Only ten points cover the center and legs, less on the sides and arms. A Vulcan that starts taking hits is quickly going to be out of action- so movement is its friend. Those rifle-toters can't kill what they can't hit, so make them earn it!

Weaponry is... weird. The Vulcan 2T starts off just fine, with a flamer and machine gun in the arms- just the kind of tools you need for the job at hand. A medium laser in the left torso is a great tool for dealing with an interfering bug-Mech or APC that might be supporting the enemy. And the AC/2 in the right torso is... just not a good idea in any way, shape, or form. Seriously, what was this for? Dealing with infantry, suddenly we needed the longest-ranged gun on the battlefield, that hardly does any damage to armored or unarmored forces alike, and weighs seven tons (including the ammo) on a 40-ton design? This was a bizarre design choice, and one that I'm sure has turned many players- the author included- off of the Vulcan over the years. Even if you have justification for the weapon, it's impossible to argue that it's a heavy beast that hardly fits the role the Mech is supposed to be performing. The number of better ideas out there are enormous- it's hard to think of a WORSE one, actually.

Luckily, the designers apparently thought so too, because shortly after the debut of the 2T, the 5T came along. The autocannon and ammo are deleted, and rightly so, in favor of going heavier on the short-ranged firepower. Three medium lasers are added where the cannon used to be (with the laser on the left side remaining for a total of four), with a couple of heat sinks added to help deal with the newly-increased heat output (twelve sinks total now). The remaining tonnage went into beefing up the armor. The Mech is MUCH more capable of harming armored targets now, and can take a couple of extra hits in return. Given a choice, use this every single time over the 2T. It is worth nothing though that while it is a huge improvement over its parent design, the 5T doesn't really do anything to improve itself at its primary job over the 2T's flamer/MG combo. That's not a bad attack, for sure, but one can't help but wish one of those lasers was a second flamer, a couple of MGs, etc. to improve the Vulcan's ability to perform its primary job.

Someone out there listened to the author, though. A 3039 custom variant is known to have existed, driven by a member of the 3rd Davion Guards. This 'Timms' variant drops the medium laser, MG, and ammo from a 2T to gain a small laser and two more flamers, and is a MUCH better machine for roasting infantry over an open fire like the holidays of yore. The AC/2 remains though, disappointingly. Unfortunately this is a one-off field mod, but it's good to see a Vulcan that really embraces the job of getting rid of infantry.




Even the homeliest of units like the Urbanmech got upgrades with the end of the Succession Wars and the re-release of lost Star League tech, and the Vulcan- being that homeliest of units- was no exception. Via their Nimakachi plant, House Marik eagerly began refitting their 2T Vulcans to the 5M standard at this time, losing the silly autocannon in favor of a large pulse laser. The author's hatred of this weapon has been inked many a time, but on a Mech designed for this job it actually works this time- the short range is mitigated by the Vulcan's need to get close anyway, the -2 to hit is perfect for dealing with fast support units... it's still a hefty beast, but far more useful. The laser in the other side also got the pulse treatment. A switch to double heat sinks (11 of them) offsets the massive rise in heat resulting. Endo-Steel helps make all of this possible as well, but the author cautions that as you wade into combat, the armor is still the same original 2T plating- no ferro or any of that fun stuff. With the new focus on close-range fighting on the 5M, be ready to get hit in reply.

The FWL wasn't the only group upgrading their Vulcans though. Enter the 5S, a Coventry-produced FedCom upgrade that went a bit further than the fairly-reasonable but limited upgrade of the 5M. 5S gets going by jamming an extralight-engine into the Vulcan, and immediately I know some of you are rolling your eyes at a ruined unit. Well, hold on- an XL engine makes sense if it really helps improve the Mech, so let's give it a chance! Ferro-fibrous armor makes the Mech slightly tougher in the legs, but the MASC system gives the VL-5S a boost up to Locust-speeds now and then, handy for... well, not a great deal if you're fighting infantry, honestly, but it's good to have options in an emergency. The main weapon change is replacing the 2T's AC/2 with an Ultra AC/5, which isn't really much of an improvement- the power is greater, of course, but it has the same problem, not really fitting the role the Mech is supposed to serve. All in all, a lot of money goes into this Mech's upgrade, and it doesn't really go anywhere useful compared to the 5M. The idea of running this out in the face of the Jade Falcons is... sobering.

The Vulcan appears to have missed out on the next wave of upgrades as the Civil War era's wars raged- neither the FedCom nor FWL seems to have given it any notice in this time, which isn't overly surprising- it wasn't a flashy unit demanding another upgrade, and new construction tended to get more attention in this era. (Out of universe, it also wasn't artwork that needed reworking in Project Phoenix!) We wait until the opening salvos of the horror known as the Jihad to see new Vulcan variants come marching onto the field, starting with the VT-5Sr. A clear attempt by the Lyrans to make the 5S not-awful, the only major change to that design is to drop the Ultra AC/5 and ammo to gain a plasma rifle, two tons of ammo, and a couple of desperately-needed heat sinks- the 5S didn't need to upgrade to double-strength heat sinks with the cool-running cannon, but this field mod definitely runs hot! The kind of withering punishment a plasma rifle does to... well, anything it hits... is obviously a huge improvement over the anemic autocannon, and as long as you're not stupid about the heat gauge this is a Vulcan to use every time you get an opportunity over its older cousins. In particular, the original role of dealing with infantry is handled nicely by the classic MG/flamer combo, and boosted by that plasma gun if you really want them to suffer. In an era seeing Manei Domini infantry on the field, that's no small consideration.

Marik, too, upgraded the Vulcan in the face of the new threat... briefly. The VT-6M was an odd duck that suffered from the classic 3060s/70s Marik fad of sticking a light Gauss rifle on everything that could move, whether it made sense or not. On an anti-infantry specialist, reader, it did not. The rifle and its two tons of ammo (we won't be running out any time soon...?) feel like a throwback to the AC/2 on the original version- a long-range strike that doesn't really do the infantry-killer much good at all. To accomplish the feat of cramming a huge gun in a small Mech, an XL motor was used, along with light ferro-fibrous armor to boost the protection a bit (though not over that engine, amusingly). The laser gets ER tech as well. Double heat sinks keep the Mech absurdly cool, great in an infantry-hunting role in which inferno missiles are a real threat. If you get your hands on one, it's not worth using- first because it sucks at its job, second because it's more of a collectors' item, since only a few dozen were produced prior to the destruction of the FWL's Nimakachi plant. Everyone loves a collectable!

The Word of Blake, too, found use for the old 'scarecrow' with the 6C. Taking old 5M chassis, they first tossed the large pulse laser for an ER large laser, which normally the author would applaud. Here though, for once, the pulse weapon really made sense. Still, the ER weapon gives the Mech a lightweight but handy sting at range (compared to the hefty but similar capability the 6M gave us with its LGR!). The medium laser also becomes an ER model. The weight saved, along with losing a double heat sink, get used for a C3i module (a handy idea, for a Mech designed to get into close-range for infantry fighting!), and for the first time we see a change to the classic MG/flamer duo, as the MG gets swapped out for three light machine guns in an array! LMGs are polarizing for players- some love the added range despite the loss of per-shot infantry-slaughter potential, others feel they're too weak. Three of them tied together is pretty handy, giving the Vulcan very good crowd-control power at a range that helps it stay a little further away from return fire. The flamer is, as ever, untouched. This is a very good Vulcan version and should be considered even if you don't have a C3i network to tie it to.


Post-Jihad, arms manufacturers had an odd situation- looking at shattered militaries needing to rebuild, but also being hamstrung in doing so by treaty agreements. It appears that the agreements limited NUMBERS, but not SPENDING- so flashy, high-price units were prioritized sometimes over more rear-echelon Mechs like the Vulcan. It stands to reason that many of the old stalwarts that survived the Jihad ended up in the scrap heap as a result- but the story isn't over for the scarecrow, either. An attempt from Coventry to buoy sales saw an interesting marriage of the 6M and 6Sr concepts (via what remained of Nimakachi) to produce the VT-6T. The plasma rifle and ER medium laser from the 6Sr return, backed by a targeting computer no less, the kind of extravagance that one can afford to cram on a Vulcan in this era. The infantry-killling arm weapons get upgrades as well- after CENTURIES, the flamer gets its upgrade to a heavy model, while the MG becomes a heavy. (The author is not a fan of the HMG, feeling that the lack of range- even by comparison to the old MG- isn't worth it). An XL motor and light ferro-fibrous armor give it the weight savings to make these upgrades. Whether these new tricks are enough to entice the LCAF to purchase the design in numbers- or even if the state survives to make those deals- is to be seen.

We have one last entry though before we draw the curtain on the Vulcan- and for that we travel to Solaris for 'Aladdin'. This is hardly even recognizable as a Vulcan, with a retractable blade (neat, if you're using the optional rules!) backed by... a pair of Thunderbolt/5 launchers. That's... different. Stealth armor via an Angel ECM system and double heat sinks round out this oddball. I'm not saying it's terrible, because it's... weird. Solaris produces some very unusual variants to begin with, but it's hard to think of one more outside-the-box than Aladdin. Designed to work as part of a small team rather than solo, this is a Mech probably best left alone by most players.

So there you have it- an oft-overlooked classic from the games' early days, upgraded to various extents and results throughout the years and trying to remain relevant even into the ilClan era. Vulcans excel in any era at jobs like crowd control and urban warfare, and it's best to keep them to those roles- using most versions in an open-field combat situation is likely going to go poorly, or at the very least waste its potential at the things it does well. They make excellent bodyguards for LRM-boats, helping keep infantry from popping out of hiding spots to cause trouble, and similarly are good guard units for high-ranking commanders as well (note that the Cyclops, for example, tends to lack infantry-suppression capabilities).

Go ahead, let's have a talk about the Vulcan- stories of use, idea for improvements, tactics, you know the drill folks!

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Rince Wind

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #1 on: 17 November 2023, 09:28:46 »
The Vulcan - when you build a new 40t mech to do a Firestarters job.

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #2 on: 17 November 2023, 09:31:04 »
Okay, I've wracked my brain a bit and I think the reason for the autocannon was some battledroids metagaming. If I remember it right, back then you just had to hit an infantry unit with a mech weapon to destroy it, so the Vulcan could pop infantry from way far out and not even have to worry about them being able to shoot back.

But since the laws of the Vulcan's reality have since been rewritten... I don't know. Maybe it's for popping fleeing trucks or APCs, or for keeping up a steady fire (starting from the other side of the map?) as the mech approached? Was flechette ammo a thing when the Vulcan was deployed?

I suppose you could plink at a dug in infantry unit while staying outside of their reach and try to force them to abandon their position.
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #3 on: 17 November 2023, 10:16:10 »
IIRC the TRO3025 fluff was the AC2 was used to take down buildings from range.
(Probably buildings that Infantry were hiding in?)

I find the 5T & 5M to be my favorite models allowing them to do AI work but also be solid striker units for my Light lances.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #4 on: 17 November 2023, 10:17:20 »
The Vulcan - when you build a new 40t mech to do a Firestarters job.

But realistically, not quite as well. Give the Firestarter this much- as odd as it is, it leans HARD into the walking war-crime concept at the expense of nearly all other considerations (including sanity). The Vulcan's half-assed approach pales in comparison to its smaller cousin- but, Firestarters are pretty rare in the Succession Wars, even in Lyran space, so if you can't get one, a Vulcan is a reasonable substitute.

Then again, if we're being unbiased and fair, there's not a great deal a Vulcan can do for crowd control purposes that a Stinger can't do just as well for a fraction of the cost. A little less armor (and I mean a LITTLE less) and the loss of the autocannon, and you end up with two anti-infantry weapons (MGs instead of MG/flamer) and a supporting laser. It begs the question of what reason there is for the Vulcan to exist, really- if the Firestarter does its job so much better, and the Stinger and other bugs do the job similarly well on the cheap, what is the reason for this to exist?
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Empyrus

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #5 on: 17 November 2023, 10:20:38 »
Flechette ammo is 3060s thing, too late for the Vulcan. Even then, it would barely add any damage if i remember right. Flak ammo in the AC/2 should be about the same actually... and also doubles as light AA.

On the AC, i also figure the Vulcan also supports your own infantry, like the Sentinel. Infantry lacks range so... of course the AC/2 is a poor choice for this, but the original Sentinel does the same thing. The Ultra/5 is kinda reasonable upgrade for both.

Why the later Vulcans don't really upgrade their anti-infantry capabilities is probably because tactics are shifting, in-universe. There's battle armor around, new mechs possibly more suited for the role, whatever else. The Vulcan is not really needed for its originally intended task, or not preferred for that anymore at least.

The Vulcan - when you build a new 40t mech to do a Firestarters job.
I am reminded that people noted in my Firestarter article that anything with Infernos may arguably be better at both anti-infantry and actual fire-starting, range is just nice. The Javelin might work better than either the Vulcan or Firestarter...
Should be noted that the 5 ton difference between the Firestarter and Vulcan is largely irrelevant. Some 35 tonners are functionally more like mediums (the Panther) than others, and the Vulcan is functionally more of a light mech than a medium mech. The weight classes are somewhat arbitrary at the class-borders, functionality matters more.


Overall, i'm not quite sure what to think about the Vulcan. I like its aesthetics. It is different looking, very odd, very distinct. The new art retained these things very well. But the thing is always held back by some odd choices. Bad choices. What's with the insistence to have full tons of ammo without CASE even later on? And nominally i don't mind low armor but under 60% is kinda pushing it. I mean, even vs infantry that armor is a bit on low side, not to mention the battlefield will have units with heavier firepower, most likely supporting enemy infantry if the enemy commander has any sense.
Also unless there's only some infantry in the field, the actual AI firepower is a bit on the light side. MG+Flamer vs single platoon seems good, but what if there's more? Might want more weapons to fry multiple platoons at once.
Overall the mech just ends up feeling a bit confused.

Not counting the latest high tech variant, the Marik 5M (and the WoB's 6C) version is probably my favorite. The Vulcan has sufficient mobility the pulse laser range is no problem, not to mention guaranteed hit and some extra performance vs infantry doesn't hurt any. Just did they really need to add unnecessary extra DHS... could have had CASE and extra armor.

Rince Wind

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #6 on: 17 November 2023, 11:23:16 »
But realistically, not quite as well. Give the Firestarter this much- as odd as it is, it leans HARD into the walking war-crime concept at the expense of nearly all other considerations (including sanity). The Vulcan's half-assed approach pales in comparison to its smaller cousin- but, Firestarters are pretty rare in the Succession Wars, even in Lyran space, so if you can't get one, a Vulcan is a reasonable substitute.

Then again, if we're being unbiased and fair, there's not a great deal a Vulcan can do for crowd control purposes that a Stinger can't do just as well for a fraction of the cost. A little less armor (and I mean a LITTLE less) and the loss of the autocannon, and you end up with two anti-infantry weapons (MGs instead of MG/flamer) and a supporting laser. It begs the question of what reason there is for the Vulcan to exist, really- if the Firestarter does its job so much better, and the Stinger and other bugs do the job similarly well on the cheap, what is the reason for this to exist?

True, you can't find Firestarters on every corner.

As you say it is hard to find a reason for the Vulcan. Even in its primary role it is mediocre at best. Other mechs have this kind of anti infantry firepower as an afterthought.
I guess it is as Empyrus said and the Vulcan is more of an infantry support mech than an anti infantry mech. The AC/2 can (try to) protect against air units and the ML can pop open the odd APC. The 5T is a pretty good deterrent against bug mechs and a lot better overall.

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #7 on: 17 November 2023, 12:16:31 »
honestly, i suspect that in setting, the idea of the AC2 was to allow it to pinch hit as an infantry support unit, like the Sentinel, or the jackrabbit. AC2's seem to be a common SLDF choice for infantry support. game rules wise the AC2 isn't all that impressive (though it can take down standard 5ton APC's at ranges well before they or their contents can effectively respond) but in setting, where targeting is going to be less abstracted, a single AC2 hit can probably be counted on to shred any jeep or other light support vehicle it encounters, which are more common in-setting than they are on tabletop. which also means that in theory, it could take down a full squad of motorized or mechanized infantry at a time, if it catches them on the move.
as such, the design of the Vulcan feels a lot less like an attempt to make a firestarter alternative, and more "give me a sentinel trading the SRM for anti-infantry guns."
« Last Edit: 17 November 2023, 12:25:00 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #8 on: 17 November 2023, 12:33:18 »
One way to think about the Vulcan’s role is that it’s not an anti-infantry mech but an anti-conventional mech, meaning that it’s designed to counter opponents that are not mechs:  fighters, combat vehicles, and infantry.  With the Vulcan’s role defined this way, the AC/2 makes more sense.  The AC/2 forces lawn-dart checks on conventional and aerospace fighters and can pillbox tanks and other combat vehicles before they get too close.  While most mechs are designed to kill other mechs, the Vulcan is designed to protect those mechs from asymmetric attacks by conventional units.

Even in the narrower anti-infantry role, the AC/2 is useful in whittling down infantry platoons so their numbers and firepower don’t threaten the Vulcan when it closes to finish off a platoon with its flamer and machine gun.  I’m no fan of AC/2s, but unless the mech is a Bane or the like, AC/2s always turn mechs into anti-conventional specialists of some type and they should be evaluated in that context.  Vulcans only make sense if you’re expecting the opposition to field non-mech forces.

I’d also note that the flamer is useful for creating fire and smoke, either to cover a retreat or causing chaos with soft targets behind enemy lines, missions which the Vulcan has enough mobility to pull off.

Lastly, in-universe, the Vulcan’s introduction date is 2777 by MatherTechno on Northwind.  This is two years after Northwind is liberated by the SLDF during the Amaris Crisis.  If the Vulcan’s role is anti-infantry, this could indicate that the Vulcan was designed by the Amaris Empire to suppress populations in the former Terran Hegemony, and that the SLDF just went ahead with production to help replace losses before the push on Terra.  If the Vulcan’s role is anti-conventional, then maybe the SLDF designed the Vulcan and put it into production on Northwind to protect mech regiments against Amaris conventional units during the push on Terra.  (I could see a whole company of Vulcans protecting an SLDF mech regiment from Amaris fighters, tanks, and infantry.)
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #9 on: 17 November 2023, 12:34:57 »
The AC/2 can also be helpful against stationary turret emplacements, able to grind them down from a safe distance.
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #10 on: 17 November 2023, 17:17:14 »
Thanks for writing the article JadeHellbringer! It's always nice to see the classic MotW writers come back.

I have never been a huge fan of the Vulcan. Well I enjoy combined arms, I play with vehicles and battle armour, not conventional infantry, so it never seemed particularly effective in the role. The Sr ad 9T with plasma rifles may be worth trying out though in the future, particularly if I build a Lyran force to go along with my Wolves-in-Exile.
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #11 on: 17 November 2023, 17:28:41 »
The Vulcan. Basically a slightly better Stinger for twice the weight and price.

I can almost guarantee I'll wind up pulling several from my salvage boxes.    :sad:
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #12 on: 17 November 2023, 17:36:11 »
The AC/2 can also be helpful against stationary turret emplacements, able to grind them down from a safe distance.

See my comment about being Anti-Building per the original fluff.


Lastly, in-universe, the Vulcan’s introduction date is 2777 by MatherTechno on Northwind.  This is two years after Northwind is liberated by the SLDF during the Amaris Crisis.  If the Vulcan’s role is anti-infantry, this could indicate that the Vulcan was designed by the Amaris Empire to suppress populations in the former Terran Hegemony, and that the SLDF just went ahead with production to help replace losses before the push on Terra.  If the Vulcan’s role is anti-conventional, then maybe the SLDF designed the Vulcan and put it into production on Northwind to protect mech regiments against Amaris conventional units during the push on Terra.

Below is from Sarna, looks like it was SLDF to deal w/ Republican Infantry that wouldn't surrender

Quote
The Vulcan was designed as an anti-infantry 'Mech in 2775 during the closing years of the Amaris Civil War. As the SLDF battled Republican troops in the streets and thoroughfares of the Terran Hegemony, many 'Mechs were destroyed by dug-in infantry during these urban battles. In response to this problem, MatherTechno Inc. designed the Vulcan to pack weaponry capable of taking out large numbers of enemy troops and capable of unparalleled mobility in an urban environment, though not intended to engage in all-out battles with larger 'Mechs. The Vulcan's distinct profile would eventually give rise to its nickname "Scarecrow."[4][5][6]

Production of the Vulcan began as soon as MatherTechno's factory on Northwind was liberated by the SLDF, with Aleksandr Kerensky himself specifically ordering their production lines converted to produce the Vulcan. 
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #13 on: 17 November 2023, 17:39:03 »
The Vulcan. Basically a slightly better Stinger for twice the weight and price.

I can almost guarantee I'll wind up pulling several from my salvage boxes.    :sad:

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I then proceeded to get a 3rd in the "Pursuit Lance" of metal.
Then I got another in the early 2000's plastic box "Recon Lance".
And I think the newest KS might have given me a 5th whenever it arrives, so I'm right there with you.
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #14 on: 17 November 2023, 17:45:40 »
I can almost guarantee I'll wind up pulling several from my salvage boxes.    :sad:

I can't wait to see what (hilariously) bad mechs (that I probably don't want) from my salvage.  First time around I was awash in Timber Wolves, Atlases, and Executioners.

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #15 on: 17 November 2023, 20:32:21 »
Thanks for writing the article JadeHellbringer! It's always nice to see the classic MotW writers come back.

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #16 on: 17 November 2023, 21:24:44 »
Thank you. I’ve been waiting for this one for a long time.

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #17 on: 17 November 2023, 21:25:18 »
You, ah... you calling me old?  :angel:

I'm in my early twenties. The vast majority of the board qualifies as old to me
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #18 on: 17 November 2023, 21:27:51 »
There are few people more derisive about the AC/2 than me.  The -2T is just confusing.  We've all found potential uses during the spit-balling in this thread, but at its core the weapon just doesn't work on a 'Mech designed to fight in close terrain.  The long range (useless in a jungle, whether organic or concrete) means that it has a nice deep short-range bracket, but it also has a minimum range.  And the 2-point pinprick for that kind of weight and the threat of explodium under not much armor. . .frankly, I just don't consider the -2T to be the real standard model.

The -5T is the hero of the intro-tech variants.  It has better armament for damage, better armament for the preferred terrain, better armor to cover the MG ammo.  It's just better than the -2T by a country mile.

But that being said, my favorite variant is the -5M.  I've said this before and I'll keep saying it: the IS LPL has such a bad reputation but I like it.  My appreciation is not due to an opinion that it's a great weapon; quite the contrary, I understand the detractors' points and agree with most of them.  But as a die-hard House Marik player and a fan of the Clan Invasion era in particular, LPLs are basically unavoidable.  The Mariks have always enjoyed large lasers, and they picked up both the ER and pulse variations and slapped them on LOTS of their new and upgraded construction.  The VL-5M is the example at hand, but look at such hits like the Anvil, Albatross, Grand Titan, Marauder-5M, Perseus B, Ostsol-5M, Wraith, Tempest. . . you can't throw a rock without someone in purple livery shooting it with a large pulse laser.

So if I want to play my chosen faction with its home-grown 'Mech designs, I decided that I had better get good with LPLs (and SGLRMs and LGRs!).  The range is atrociously short and the heat is a little heavy for the damage, but the -5M is a pretty cool running design that wants to get close anyway so neither of those drawbacks are really important.  It gives the 'Mech a pretty decent sting, and the pulse hit bonus helps to counter the fact that you just might be jumping quite a bit to boot.

As for the LGR variant. . . just no.  I'm similarly avoidant of the Hermes II LGR variant; I like that weapon in very narrow roles, and by that I mean in 99% of cases it's a tank gun, not a 'Mech gun.
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #19 on: 17 November 2023, 22:10:18 »
I can't wait to see what (hilariously) bad mechs (that I probably don't want) from my salvage.  First time around I was awash in Timber Wolves, Atlases, and Executioners.

I only had 2 sets of doubles, but, they were Hellbringers & Iceferrets soooo....
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #20 on: 17 November 2023, 22:13:11 »
It seems like a great mech to mount the Plasma Rifle on instead of the AC2. Gives it some range and effectiveness against infantry, vehicles, and other Mechs. So it goes in to take care of infantry and conventional forces, but can spar with Mechs of its own size or lighter while backing out if heavier competition shows up. I like the LPL addition, too, but the Plasma Rifle just seems like a better overall match.

The Vulcan is just one of those Mechs I’ve always liked fluff and aesthetics-wise, especially the most recent art that bulked it up a bit and made it look more aggressive. I’m hoping the new plastic sculpt is pretty close. If I wasn’t already expecting a full lance of them from the Kickstarter, I’d be offering to trade for those salvage box pulls.


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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #21 on: 17 November 2023, 22:16:07 »
Plasma is a solid option for these things, the problem is the execution of them w/ SHS / XL engines.

I would have preferred an ERLL to match AC2 as a "ranged" gun & tac on some Electronics or Armor but the LPL works well enough to be sure.
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #22 on: 18 November 2023, 06:27:33 »
Plasma is a solid option for these things, the problem is the execution of them w/ SHS / XL engines.

I would have preferred an ERLL to match AC2 as a "ranged" gun & tac on some Electronics or Armor but the LPL works well enough to be sure.

You know, clan tech gives a WYSIWYG models so many options here. I just posted a couple in the Fan Design’s “Recognition Guide Challenge” thread.

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #23 on: 19 November 2023, 09:12:56 »
One way to think about the Vulcan’s role is that it’s not an anti-infantry mech but an anti-conventional mech, meaning that it’s designed to counter opponents that are not mechs:  fighters, combat vehicles, and infantry.  With the Vulcan’s role defined this way, the AC/2 makes more sense.  The AC/2 forces lawn-dart checks on conventional and aerospace fighters and can pillbox tanks and other combat vehicles before they get too close.  While most mechs are designed to kill other mechs, the Vulcan is designed to protect those mechs from asymmetric attacks by conventional units.

Even in the narrower anti-infantry role, the AC/2 is useful in whittling down infantry platoons so their numbers and firepower don’t threaten the Vulcan when it closes to finish off a platoon with its flamer and machine gun.  I’m no fan of AC/2s, but unless the mech is a Bane or the like, AC/2s always turn mechs into anti-conventional specialists of some type and they should be evaluated in that context.  Vulcans only make sense if you’re expecting the opposition to field non-mech forces.

I’d also note that the flamer is useful for creating fire and smoke, either to cover a retreat or causing chaos with soft targets behind enemy lines, missions which the Vulcan has enough mobility to pull off.

Lastly, in-universe, the Vulcan’s introduction date is 2777 by MatherTechno on Northwind.  This is two years after Northwind is liberated by the SLDF during the Amaris Crisis.  If the Vulcan’s role is anti-infantry, this could indicate that the Vulcan was designed by the Amaris Empire to suppress populations in the former Terran Hegemony, and that the SLDF just went ahead with production to help replace losses before the push on Terra.  If the Vulcan’s role is anti-conventional, then maybe the SLDF designed the Vulcan and put it into production on Northwind to protect mech regiments against Amaris conventional units during the push on Terra.  (I could see a whole company of Vulcans protecting an SLDF mech regiment from Amaris fighters, tanks, and infantry.)
Right on. There is essentially a group of three key mechs, the Firestarter, the Hermes II and the Vulcan.

 The Firestarter wrecks infantry and is a fine scout but is marginally effective against mechs. It can also be used for spotting.

 The Vulcan is good against infantry and armor, (and as aforementioned fighters) but not so much against mechs. It moonlights as a scout. Its main competitor against armor units is a VTOL.

 The Hermes II 2S can fight adequately against mechs, armor and infantry, (And to a degree fighters) but is not designed to impress. The AC/5 allows for more units to return fire. Furthermore, it only has a single Flamer for dedicated anti-infantry work. It is a less effective scout than the above but provides the recon force with excellent intelligence. It does have a variant that is a monster against mechs and infantry. The 2S is often used to round a lance. Notably the Hermes II has excellent armor which does pay off.

 There are other choices for these roles, like an anti-infantry Valkyrie, but these will be the ones in consideration. All of them do what they are supposed to do.

 You can use mechs like the Locust against infantry, but it does not compete with the above.

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #24 on: 19 November 2023, 11:41:30 »
The Vulcan is one of those Mechs that makes more sense on paper and perhaps in universe, in game it's another story. Not the worst but super niche until you start swapping weapons.
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #25 on: 19 November 2023, 11:45:09 »
Reading this, I had some ideas for variants I'll post in a design board later.

Otherwise, I'm seeing this as a screener in stock 2T. Use it for keeping conventional troops and aerospace at bay from the rest of the force.

My take on the 5S is it's more of a heavy scout. 5 point hits at range start adding up. I'm just not a fan of the Ultra AC risk. It's still going to be rather vulnerable with the thin Vulcan Armor.

The 5M is a good use for a large pulse; the ability for pulse weapons to chew through conventional infantry is an upside. Against battle armor it's a good start on a suit.
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #26 on: 19 November 2023, 14:28:28 »
Right on. There is essentially a group of three key mechs, the Firestarter, the Hermes II and the Vulcan.
I think there is something to be said for all of these.
None of them is a "duelist" and I feel like most mechs get ranked on how well they "duel" with another mech.
Each of these is a team player that I'd be happy to have as part of a Company/Battalion force, or even just a Striker Lance.
Not every mech is a Pillager  :grin:    And that's ok  :shocked:


Its like the way I think of the PhoenixHawk-1D v/s Vindicator-1R.
1v1, I'm taking Pixie every time.
In a lance of each of them 4v4, oh, now that is a totally different question & more likely to take the Vindi group.

Same concept I suppose w/ something like a Grasshopper v/s a group of Warhammers/Archers.
1v1 the duelist wins most likely, in a group... not the same results. 
Lance Fire of PPCs or LRMs can remove a duelist before they ever get into range.
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17thRecon

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #27 on: 20 November 2023, 01:42:01 »
I’d kind of like the. VT-6T if it had gone light ppc instead of ER med, ER Flamer instead of heavy, and light MG instead of heavy. Give it more range to get the job done instead of having to close.

Once I get my copy of the tech manual (I have no experience building/modding a Mech), I want to see about building a Hardened Armor Vulcan with a load out like the VT-6T, or with the changes I just mentioned.

I do see the Vulcan as discussed earlier in this thread as more of a team player with a specific role rather than a duelist. The Vulcan’s job is to clear the infantry and conventionals while his lancemates do more anti-mech work, but the Vulcan has to be able to contribute to the antiMech side to keep everything honest. It won’t stand up one on one, but after slaughtering it’s intended targets, it pitches in with one of it’s lancemates as a two on one.

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #28 on: 20 November 2023, 02:51:05 »
Remember how the SLDF was desperate for AA platforms to shoot down cruise missiles? Pack flak ammo and you're good for both AA and AI, a plink at a time. Worse for anti-armor, but that's what you have the medium laser (And hopefully friends) for.

Not that it was valid during citytech, but maybe now?

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #29 on: 20 November 2023, 05:22:01 »
The Vulcan is one of those Mechs that makes more sense on paper and perhaps in universe, in game it's another story. Not the worst but super niche until you start swapping weapons.

The thing is: tabletop battles are the exception, not the rule. What we play is far from the most usual battle in the BT universe. Asymetrical warfare should be more common in the setting, especially in the days of yore. And there the Vulcan is far from a bad design. Not the best, true, but far from the worst. If there are medium or larger mechs in the field that will engage him? The vulcan has no place in there. But against anything not mech it can be a useful design. And no, I have never fielded one in a regular battle either.  :grin: But conceptually it makes sense.

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #30 on: 21 November 2023, 10:15:13 »
 It should be noted that in the 30-45 tonnage range, there are a plethora of mechs that are exceptional in universe and on the table. The Assassin for example is a superb recon mech, possibly the best in the 3rd Succession War time period, the Spider is a well-regarded backstabber, and recon mech, the Jenner is oft regarded as the best Light mech in the game, The Hermes is the fastest mech of the time, the Cicada is also a good recon mech, and the Phoenix Hawk is well-regarded both in universe and on the board and so forth. In roleplay style games these mechs shine more than in pickup games. It is hard to stand out here.

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #31 on: 25 November 2023, 10:29:20 »
Thanks for the article, JadeHellbringer.

Vulcan is interesting oddity of a Mech.

I think it has a place for urban warfare and City fighting.

You have to get those mechs I have the ability handle infantry.

I know this wouldn't be a very popular model to have converted into OmniMech, but I do think that would be useful so we can switch between roles.

Thank you again, JadeHellbringer!
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #32 on: 25 November 2023, 16:24:11 »
It does seem like it would have been great to have made it an Omni.  That way if the enemy's not fielding infantry/BA, you could switch out the weapons.
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #33 on: 25 November 2023, 22:20:34 »
It occurs to me that one potential use for the AC/2 is to shoot at enemy infantry haulers, whether they're VTOLs or ground vehicles.  If you can brick them from far off, it effectively neutralizes the troops they're carrying.
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #34 on: 26 November 2023, 03:45:10 »
It does seem like it would have been great to have made it an Omni.  That way if the enemy's not fielding infantry/BA, you could switch out the weapons.

That's the firestarter omni.

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #35 on: 26 November 2023, 21:17:08 »
The Vulcan is to me an example of how desperate the SLDF was for mechs, any mechs at that point in the Amaris War. It isn't a case that they're choosing to deploy Vulcans instead of Firestarters, it's a case where they're already deploying every single Firestarter they have, can build, and can buy/steal/savage, and STILL need more infantry-defense mechs, and that's where the Vulcan comes in. It's not the best or even very good, but it's the best at being available.

In that vein, I see this as a second-line infantry fighter versus the front-line Firestarter. The Firestarter is what you use to hunt infantry, the Vulcan is what you use to defend against infantry. Infantry tends to include small support vehicles such as pickup trucks armed with support weapons...or bombs. I could see a Vulcan being invaluable in the base defense role, using the autocannon to destroy incoming suspected car bombs before they can get to the gates. As others have mentioned, it's also useful for trying to park heavier vehicles before they get into range or hitting incoming aeros.

Regarding the -6M, I feel like this is less about trying to improve an anti-infantry mech and failing, and more about repurposing it out of that role entirely. This is a persistence hunter, meant to use its mobility to stay at its range of choice, and just pelt a single target with 8-point slugs for an extended period of time. The rest of the weapons are pretty much just close-in defenses, not part of the primary mission profile. In-universe, a commander would be best served assigning a pilot with above-average gunnery scores to this machine. Out of universe, BV you spend upgrading this mech's pilot are going to be disproportionately useful.
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #36 on: 27 November 2023, 09:15:17 »
The idea of the Vulcan working well within a team is a good point, and then we transition to its service-entrance in the SLDF. . . where it was commonplace for a single type of 'Mech to comprise entire formations.  That made me think of a full lance of -2Ts.

One AC/2 isn't impressive against a 'Mech force.  Four AC/2s, on the other hand, are decent for seeking Golden BB hits; if you don't believe me, ask anyone who likes piloting Maulers.  Plus, they out-range most conventional weaponry of the era, and then you've got the lasers and MGs for close-in defense against strikers trying to get inside your minimum ranges.

I like variety too much to field a "pure" lance of one type of 'Mech, but it'd be curious to see how it works out against an equivalent BV force of the same era/tech level.
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #37 on: 27 November 2023, 09:35:52 »
Was the Vulcan in service early enough to serve in the SLDF in its prime? Or did it enter service in the Amaris War, when Kerensky's forces were reduced to used mixed lances like everybody else by the end of the Rim Worlds campaign?
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #38 on: 27 November 2023, 09:43:54 »
Was the Vulcan in service early enough to serve in the SLDF in its prime? Or did it enter service in the Amaris War, when Kerensky's forces were reduced to used mixed lances like everybody else by the end of the Rim Worlds campaign?

The Vulcan dates back to the Reunification War so if you take the time between that and the Amaris Crisis as SLDF's Prime then it did indeed serve during that time.

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #39 on: 27 November 2023, 10:47:24 »
It's not officially spelled out as such, but the Scarecrow is essentially a Vulcan II. I think it bares a mention in passing.

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #40 on: 27 November 2023, 11:18:18 »
The Vulcan dates back to the Reunification War so if you take the time between that and the Amaris Crisis as SLDF's Prime then it did indeed serve during that time.

Fair enough. I'll have to adjust my thinking of it as a symbol of a desperate SLDF, though I still see it as a second-line infantry fighter versus the front-line Firestarter.
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #41 on: 27 November 2023, 11:57:01 »
It's not officially spelled out as such, but the Scarecrow is essentially a Vulcan II. I think it bares a mention in passing.
Canonically related design is the Stag, one of Clan Wolverine mechs.

While the Scarecrow does share tonnage (40), overall form (cockpit protruding from upper torso and slender frame) and the role (anti infantry), they do not appear to share any components or item branding except Rawlings jump jets which are common enough. And there is no mention of Vulcan in the fluff at all. Still, given how old the Vulcan is and well known as anti-infantry mech, the Vulcan providing a pattern for the Scarecrow is not impossible. But this is merely speculation, though i would not be surprised if this were to be affirmed in Shrapnel or elsewhere at some point, similar thing happened with the Gauntlet which appeared to be Omni-Bushwacker by looks and function but without any canonical description as such until RecGuide vol2 made it so.



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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #42 on: 27 November 2023, 14:36:52 »
The Vulcan dates back to the Reunification War so if you take the time between that and the Amaris Crisis as SLDF's Prime then it did indeed serve during that time.

vulcan mech intro date is 2777, near the end of the Amaris Coup. the reunification war was nealy two centuries earlier. i think you are thinking of the Vulcan ASF, which did have its original model debut shortly before reunification war, and served all through the amaris coup as well.

interstingly, the Vulcan ASF was a rim worlds design. i wonder if the name had a signifigance to Amaris and the rim worlds troops, and the SLDF mech was named the same in a bit of Psyops?
« Last Edit: 27 November 2023, 14:41:12 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #43 on: 27 November 2023, 14:58:18 »
vulcan mech intro date is 2777, near the end of the Amaris Coup. the reunification war was nealy two centuries earlier.

I reconsider my reconsidering! :cool:
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AlphaMirage

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #44 on: 27 November 2023, 16:07:31 »
I was actually confusing it with the Firestarter, we are doing a Reunification War scenario now and that was in my mind

That said why did they take so long to introduce the Vulcan. Were the Firestarter and Bugs sufficient for riot/infantry suppression for so long?

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #45 on: 27 November 2023, 16:33:34 »
Probably? Once the Reunification War ended, human wave attacks weren't really a notable tactic until Amaris's goons used it.
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"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
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glitterboy2098

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #46 on: 27 November 2023, 22:22:30 »
especially since the main production center for the Firestarter was on Skye in the Lyran commonwealth, and IIRC the lyrans were pulling some shenanigans at the the time and having some of the SLDF production redirected to their own forces. so between higher need, issues of attrition, and possibly the supply being unreliable, i'm not surprised they'd arrange to have an alternative built.

gyedid

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #47 on: 27 November 2023, 22:47:38 »

One AC/2 isn't impressive against a 'Mech force.  Four AC/2s, on the other hand, are decent for seeking Golden BB hits; if you don't believe me, ask anyone who likes piloting Maulers.  Plus, they out-range most conventional weaponry of the era, and then you've got the lasers and MGs for close-in defense against strikers trying to get inside your minimum ranges.


The Vulcan is basically a heavier, jump-capable Jackrabbit with added anti-infantry weapons--the problem with that viewpoint being that the Vulcan was introduced to canon long before the 'Rabbit, but it still works in canon because by the time of the Vulcan's introduction, Amaris had all the 'Rabbits.  Still, like the Jackrabbit, its anemic damage output means that you pretty much MUST use it in packs for it to be effective.

You can look at it that the Vulcan's AC/2 actually increases in effectiveness in the modern era.  Specialty ammo gives it expanded tactical options--flechette against conventional infantry, precision against fast-movers of any kind--and since most BA are limited to short-range weapons, the ability to even start touching BA troops up at ranges well outside of where they can shoot back shouldn't be underestimated.

cheers,

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So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
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Istal_Devalis

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #48 on: 28 November 2023, 09:13:47 »
And there is no mention of Vulcan in the fluff at all. Still, given how old the Vulcan is and well known as anti-infantry mech, the Vulcan providing a pattern for the Scarecrow is not impossible. But this is merely speculation, though i would not be surprised if this were to be affirmed in Shrapnel or elsewhere at some point
Speculation? Entirely. But not one made out of whole cloth for the reasons mentioned. Also, there's the choice in name. Scarecrow is also a common nickname for the Vulcan after all.

glitterboy2098

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #49 on: 28 November 2023, 16:23:42 »
The Vulcan is basically a heavier, jump-capable Jackrabbit with added anti-infantry weapons--the problem with that viewpoint being that the Vulcan was introduced to canon long before the 'Rabbit, but it still works in canon because by the time of the Vulcan's introduction, Amaris had all the 'Rabbits.  Still, like the Jackrabbit, its anemic damage output means that you pretty much MUST use it in packs for it to be effective.
i actually view it as a Sentinel with its anti-mech firepower reduced to mount anti-infantry. they're the same mass, have the same engine/speed, and similar armor. the vulcan just uses a lighter AC and anti-infantry guns instead of the slightly larger AC and missiles of the sentinel.

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #50 on: 28 November 2023, 16:35:53 »
Honestly, I don't feel like the Vulcan's anti-mech capability is significantly worse than the Sentinel's.
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Minemech

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #51 on: 28 November 2023, 20:02:54 »
i actually view it as a Sentinel with its anti-mech firepower reduced to mount anti-infantry. they're the same mass, have the same engine/speed, and similar armor. the vulcan just uses a lighter AC and anti-infantry guns instead of the slightly larger AC and missiles of the sentinel.
The mobility that the Jump Jets provide the Vulcan is a key attribute that the Sentinel cannot match. It moves it from being a barely adequate scout to being quite a reasonable one in its time period and adds to it the ability to better position itself for time-sensitive vehicle snipes.

Vonshroom

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #52 on: 01 December 2023, 15:52:34 »
The Vulcan VL-5T is honestly an incredible mech and one that I very much enjoy playing. It's basically an uparmored /gunned contemporary of mechs like the Fire Javelin or Jenner-F. Fast, Jumpy, 4 medium lasers + solid armor & with respectable anti infantry capability. Certainly beats the pants off anything in the same BV / weight bracket (outside of the P-Hawk). Certainly makes things like Wasps and Stingers very nervous for not too much BV.
 

Players expecting a "crappy 2T" can be quite surprised by the teeth of the 5T as well. Solid, solid mech.
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nerd

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #53 on: 02 December 2023, 12:07:31 »
Here's a Workshop Thread for people to play with.
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XenopusTex

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #54 on: 04 December 2023, 01:00:26 »
I had been trying to wrap my head around this mech, as it seems rather disjointed.  Then I realized it looks to be an amalgamation of infantry support vehicles.  Basically a Sherman "crocodile" plus a BMP-2, Bradley, Marder, etc.  with an angry rangefinder tossed in because, why not.  On the surface, it looks like a decent unit... autocannon to hit at range, flame projector to deal with dug-in infantry/fortifications/etc., machine gun to hit infantry in the open, and the angry flashlight to open up holes in things.  However, this unit is let down by B'tech's rule set.  Autocannons are criminally under performing as are flamers, which negatively impacts the Vulcan.  Whereas IRL, a 20-30mm autocannon burst can damage optics, etc. on a tank, the AC-2 is hobbled by the rule set as it a generally required to punch through the armour before getting to any of the squishy bits, especially on other 'mechs.  Video footage showing "Crocodiles" in action is rather horrifying for what they could do to infantry in or out of buildings; something that the flamer just doesn't seem to replicate.

Long story short, the 'mech finally makes sense to me as a multi-purpose infantry support unit.  Too bad the AC-2 doesn't live up to the possibilities that a smallish bore automatic cannon can do these days, including killing infantry at extended ranges. 

glitterboy2098

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #55 on: 04 December 2023, 13:27:59 »
Honestly, I don't feel like the Vulcan's anti-mech capability is significantly worse than the Sentinel's.
the standard SLDF sentinel -3L with a UAC5, SSRM2, and SL is more effective in taking on mechs and vees than a AC2, ML, Flamer, and MG. mostly because of the better range on the SRM's and the ability to doubletap the UAC.
(i'm not goin to even bother with comparing to the Royal Sentinel -3Lb.. since anything packing a gauss rifle, ML, and SL is playing in a very different battlefield role)

but you are right that the difference isn't huge, and i suspect that part of the reason they designed the Vulcan the way they did was so that it could sub in for both the Sentinel (infantry support) and Firestarter (anti-infantry), both of which were going to be in increasingly short supply due to logistics chains and attrition.  (blueshot weaponry had been delaying shipments of SLDF Starslayers and redirecting them to the Lyran military at the time, at the orders of the Archon. so i wouldn't be surprised if both the Firestarter and Sentinel suffered from similar meddling, both being Lyran designs from major lyran manufacturers.. and at least in the Sentinel's case, had made their way into the SLDF ranks against what the lyrans had intended.)


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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #56 on: 08 December 2023, 13:12:36 »
Just checking in to double stamp what others have said about anti-building work.  I was in a campaign game where we chased the opposition into a bunker defended by some hefty LRM batteries.  Our response was to call up the Vulcan.  We had to reload twice, but bunker was rubble when we were done... ;)

I agree the AC/2 is a niche weapon, but it's a niche pretty much any force above Lance size should have filled.

gyedid

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #57 on: 08 December 2023, 17:54:25 »
Just checking in to double stamp what others have said about anti-building work.  I was in a campaign game where we chased the opposition into a bunker defended by some hefty LRM batteries.  Our response was to call up the Vulcan.  We had to reload twice, but bunker was rubble when we were done... ;)

Care to be more descriptive here?  I'm not seeing it...

cheers,

Gabe
So, now I'm imagining people boxing up Overlords for loading as cargo.  "Nope, totally not a DropShip.  Everyone knows you can't fit a DropShip in a WarShip!  It's...a ten thousand ton box of marshmallows!  Yeah.  For the Heavy Guards big annual smores party."
--Arkansas Warrior, on the possibility of carrying Dropships as cargo in Warship cargo bays.

TERRAN SUPREMACY DEFENSE FORCE.  For when you want to send the SLDF, but couldn't afford the whole kit and kaboodle.

nerd

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #58 on: 08 December 2023, 18:05:36 »
LRM maximum range is 21 hexes, while AC's go out to 24 hexes.

The Vulcan sat just outside of the LRM range, and was shelling the bunker and/or LRM batteries into rubble slowly at gunnery skill (+4 for range, -4 for immobile target).
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Daryk

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #59 on: 08 December 2023, 18:54:02 »
Nerd hit it right on the head!  The GM started to suggest that the turret could use Extreme Range Rules, and we pointed out we could too... ;)

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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #60 on: 09 December 2023, 15:06:07 »
Just checking in to double stamp what others have said about anti-building work.  I was in a campaign game where we chased the opposition into a bunker defended by some hefty LRM batteries.  Our response was to call up the Vulcan.  We had to reload twice, but bunker was rubble when we were done... ;)

I agree the AC/2 is a niche weapon, but it's a niche pretty much any force above Lance size should have filled.
we did something like that, forced an domed city to surrender on a moon by pulling back to shelling it with AC2 outside the range of LRM 20 turrets
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Re: MotW: Vulcan
« Reply #61 on: 10 December 2023, 09:42:46 »
While they are still not official and might change prior to release (and will almost certainly be only optional rules even when the do), it might be worth mentioning that the AC/2 is actually a pretty decent anti-infantry weapon if you are using the BSP Asset rules to represent infantry.  Any hit at all clears the damage threshold for the destruction check, and the AC/2 does it economically (by BV and cost, if not by weight) and at great range.

 

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