Wob in 3095?? (McEvedy's Folly incident)

[Sartris]

A false history written by those who betrayed Clan Wolverine.

 ;D could not help myself, check my sig.

characterizing nicky k as an uncompromising megalomaniac that sacrificed a dynamic, prosperous, and noble clan wolverine to satiate the petty, small-minded, and envious khans while showing that widowmaker and the cruel fate of war were clearly responsible for the war crimes ascribed to the wolverines in the clan historical record seems like a very poor piece of anti-wolverine propaganda.

also

[speaking during a BattleTech seminar at GenCon] I know a number of people feel I'm retconning the Wolverines, that I'm not following the established history of the BattleTech universe. To those people, I just want to say, "SCREW YOU."

[Easy]

So . . . you really do need to read Betrayal of Ideals since it answers some of your questions.

Anybody ever have a list of what/where the last sighting of disappeared units where?  Anyone else think disappeared mercs become a new sort of 'protectorate militia'?

OK, I'll put it on my lengthy research list.

I would like to point out something, possibly painfully obvious. There are a lot of factions, groups and bands running around on the big map and through the timelines. There is simply not enough Dev time to address everybody's favorite faction. What's the takeaway? I've found that there is one effective resource, the most important, that can carry your faction into the next source book, or canon story, and that's you.

We're talking about WoB here, but I think the principle sticks. For instance, a particularly noteworthy unit, (and I ain't gonna lie, I keep the Eridani Light Horse on life support), might merit a mention in the next source, because there is enough interest on the forums, or in conversation in the CGL break room, to merit an encyclopedic entry with a bit of flavor. So, for instance, I get an honorable mention of another glorious stand by my beloved Light Horse on Hesperus for the Dark Age, WoB and Wolverines get diddly-squat.

Is this because there are still people here lobbying for them, or even telling stories? I'd like to hope so.

To quote Willy Wonka, "Who's going to take care of the Oompa Loompas?"

So, I think in many cases, that quote from Pardoe makes sense, if this is the takeaway, if you don't want your patient to die, get in there and reveal some of that glory needed to secure their place in the official history. This is, sort of, how I imagine how the roles of writer and player inter-operate on a practical level.

Does this mean I'm going to get my story about the Eridani Light Horse's righteous war on Defiance Industries for locking them out, to die at the hands of the Crusader Clans, in the 3140s? Possibly, but I might have to be willing to write it myself.

I think this applies to the WoB, and the Wolverines, as well. That's all. If we can even solicit a fan fiction, regarding them, it can help move them out into the light.

[grimlock1]

Clan Wolverine is certainly not the most hated faction since the Usurper. There may be a couple Clans that have traditions in place about this, but the core issue is still mostly opaque if your not following their storyline.

I was talking about the WoB.  Sorry

[Colt Ward]

ELH lasted into the Dark Ages b/c they were one of the MWDA merc units, but they are dead like the dodo and intentionally so by TPTB.  Now that is not to say with new leaders at the helm they may not have Kell Hounds free some bondsmen from the Horses to reform their old merc unit, the ELH.

[Robroy]

Sorry bad quoting on my part. I was referring to the "historical stigma against Clan Wolverine" as it is accepted in the clans, not in BoL.

[grimlock1]

ELH lasted into the Dark Ages b/c they were one of the MWDA merc units, but they are dead like the dodo and intentionally so by TPTB.  Now that is not to say with new leaders at the helm they may not have Kell Hounds free some bondsmen from the Horses to reform their old merc unit, the ELH.

Didn't the Dragoons and the ELH have a tight relationship, post Misery?  Didn't an ELH carry a pennant for a Dragoon unit that was wiped out, during their review parade for Hanse?

[Easy]

Didn't the Dragoons and the ELH have a tight relationship, post Misery?  Didn't an ELH carry a pennant for a Dragoon unit that was wiped out, during their review parade for Hanse?

I'm not sure. My impression is that the 3025 ELH/WD relationship was more complimentary than not. I suppose the connection here is that both were targeted by the WoB and nuked into oblivion. "Clearing the board", they call it.

Maybe the point is that WoB regularly did the 'impossible' during the Jihad and so their ultimate fate may be hazy because they excel at being hazy. Maybe their just that chaotic on the inside. It may be noted that the WoB's technological advances are all military in nature. Even the advanced cybernetics and implants and such, that we get stats for, are military in application. Granted, it's a war game, but it's not like there's this new quality of life in the Inner Sphere due to the wonders invented by the WoB science teams. Just the opposite, in fact. So, you get factions like the Regulans that just purge it all.

Like Comstar, they are so effective at the squirrel-away and cache game that ridding the galaxy of them all isn't nearly as effective as having a kind of immune system, that simply keeps them from massing and acquiring enough assets that they would be confident in a campaign.

It's probably too much to assume that every planet, everywhere, would have the wherewithal to resist attempts to hijack whatever they got going on in service of the WoB psychopathy, along it's whole spectrum, from galaxy beaters to just another minor terrorist group on a watch list.

But we're reluctant to just call the post-Jihad a terrorist group on par with the half-dozen other infamous ones in the Inner Sphere. We've been primed by the WoB Jihad Era to see them fielding fleets and divisions. Much more difficult for one designated force to defeat that. That was Stone's genius, to embrace the horror, to realize that there were planetary populations willing to go along with them, to take them at face value as a true nation.

This is probably why they hit on the solution of the Republic Of The Sphere. An enlightened sovereign nation was the one thing that the WoB couldn't beat, because it was their own promise to the Chaos March, to make of them a united power, but, only Stone did it better.

[Colt Ward]

You know, a fun post-Jihad story to play during Stone's kool-aid era would be to give the Word of Blake a divided warlord type nature and rip off the Warlord Zsinj strategy from  the 2nd X-Wing series by Allison.

A Blakist-believing warlord gathers up what military splinters he can contact and persuade to follow him.  He sends out his new ROM,LoM, and maybe MD (Ghost/Wraith types) to infiltrate planets & businesses to build a revenue/supply stream right under the noses of the recovering Houses & Periphery with his/her growing empire being attributed to general economic rebound.  This would be a way to gain a larger support base, but it would be covert and not supply as much as a direct support base like the hidden worlds.

[grimlock1]

I'm not sure. My impression is that the 3025 ELH/WD relationship was more complimentary than not. I suppose the connection here is that both were targeted by the WoB and nuked into oblivion. "Clearing the board", they call it.

Maybe the point is that WoB regularly did the 'impossible' during the Jihad and so their ultimate fate may be hazy because they excel at being hazy. Maybe their just that chaotic on the inside. It may be noted that the WoB's technological advances are all military in nature. Even the advanced cybernetics and implants and such, that we get stats for, are military in application. Granted, it's a war game, but it's not like there's this new quality of life in the Inner Sphere due to the wonders invented by the WoB science teams. Just the opposite, in fact. So, you get factions like the Regulans that just purge it all.

Unless the MD production lines created economies of scale that made higher end prosthetics more affordable, but there's quite the stigma about that now.  On the other hand, didn't the Wraiths have prosthetics that were almost indistinguishable from the real deal? 
Implants derived from the communications or triple core processor might find their way into niche, high end markets.  1%ers or hackers and such.

Filtration Liver and Filtration Lungs, on the other hand could be re purposed for civilian use. "So the cancer is in your heart, liver, lungs and prostate.  No worries, we can fix all that, except the prostate.  You're on your own there."

But we're reluctant to just call the post-Jihad a terrorist group on par with the half-dozen other infamous ones in the Inner Sphere. We've been primed by the WoB Jihad Era to see them fielding fleets and divisions.

With such a crazed power structure, riddled with infighting, how can we ever be certain that the Mater wasn't really working for the Emperor and the War Plan for the Jihad lives in a file folder labeled "Phase 3 of 10."  Short of plying the devs with alcohol, that is.  Any documents or records that Stone et al are suspect. Focht knew there still Blakists in his Comstar, but he had no clue of the depth, or the resources they had even before the schism. One friend is convinced that the Master would occasionally manipulate Focht via implanted triggers/commands.

Much more difficult for one designated force to defeat that. That was Stone's genius, to embrace the horror, to realize that there were planetary populations willing to go along with them, to take them at face value as a true nation.

This is probably why they hit on the solution of the Republic Of The Sphere.

 
I know Stone was already thinking about what would become the Republic fairly early on.  One of the books has the meeting where he sold Victor Davion on the idea. But how widespread was this thinking?  The higher echelons of the Coalition probably had ideas that Stone was going to create a new nation, but how much did the troops know?

[Sellsword]

Why should the WOB come back as the bad guy?  Why can't they come back and "save" Terra/the Republic?  The leaders that were left were the more "moderate" of the bunch and wasn't it was speculated that Berith was more loyal to Terra than WOB in particular?

[Colt Ward]

Trying to avoid Rule 4 . . .

It raises a spectre . . . say NATO vs Warsaw Pact had kicked off in the early 60s, West Germany would have been the frontlines.  The Cold War gets hot, and suddenly West Germany gets a lot of volunteer infantry regiments, armor crew battalions (need tanks), and wings of pilots (without planes) from South American countries- who just happen to speak native German.  The volunteers include a large number of veterans in their 40s leading younger troopers, all in field gray.  Perhaps a few elite formations are also formed that wear a black uniform.

Just how receptive would West Germany be to such volunteers?  How would fellow NATO allies the UK, US and France be to such volunteers?

[grimlock1]

Trying to avoid Rule 4 . . .

It raises a spectre . . . say NATO vs Warsaw Pact had kicked off in the early 60s, West Germany would have been the frontlines.  The Cold War gets hot, and suddenly West Germany gets a lot of volunteer infantry regiments, armor crew battalions (need tanks), and wings of pilots (without planes) from South American countries- who just happen to speak native German.  The volunteers include a large number of veterans in their 40s leading younger troopers, all in field gray.  Perhaps a few elite formations are also formed that wear a black uniform.

Just how receptive would West Germany be to such volunteers?  How would fellow NATO allies the UK, US and France be to such volunteers?

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That could be a frickin' awesome novel or two.

[Colt Ward]

Then go find Watch on the Rhine if you have not read it.

https://www.amazon.com/Watch-Rhine-Wacht-Legacy-Aldenata-ebook/dp/B00AP91Y6A/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=watch+on+the+rhine&qid=1550261464&s=gateway&sr=8-3

[Elmoth]

Now that you said it, I cannot picture the Republic as anything but as phase 7 of the WoB plot.

DEVLIN IS THE MASTER!!!!

WoB actually WON the Jihad.

Xavi

[grimlock1]

Then go find Watch on the Rhine if you have not read it.

https://www.amazon.com/Watch-Rhine-Wacht-Legacy-Aldenata-ebook/dp/B00AP91Y6A/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=watch+on+the+rhine&qid=1550261464&s=gateway&sr=8-3

I think I got that in a bundle from Baen Free Library...

Now that you said it, I cannot picture the Republic as anything but as phase 7 of the WoB plot.

DEVLIN IS THE MASTER!!!!

WoB actually WON the Jihad.

Xavi

No, the WoB hasn't won.  Yet.  Winning comes in Phase 12.  Of 10.   :smirk:

[Liam's Ghost]

Now that you said it, I cannot picture the Republic as anything but as phase 7 of the WoB plot.

DEVLIN IS THE MASTER!!!!

WoB actually WON the Jihad.

Xavi

Fun fact, when the Master died he was convinced that he HAD won.

His victory condition wasn't to defeat the Inner Sphere, it was to unify it. He believed that by giving them a common enemy to rally against, he'd succeeded. Not as he had originally intended, but a victory none the less. He believed Stone was going to complete the prophesied "Third Transfer", having defeated the Word of Blake and established the Republic.

And if Stone failed, he said those they "left behind" would have to remind the inner sphere of the lessons they were supposed to learn.

(This is all covered in the opening fic in Jihad:Final Reckoning. Additional fun fact, I vaguely recall that one of the old powers that be indicated there were plans to have the Master's followers return in some form eventually)

I think something we sometimes miss when we come up with these relatively mundane, rational conspiracy theories is that we don't think crazy enough, hung up on the idea of a conventional victory, and we forget that the Manei Domini and Word of Blake were actually considered expendable if it furthered the Master's goals.

[glitterboy2098]

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That could be a frickin' awesome novel or two.

A watch on the Rhine by John Ringo.
and actually the novel is as bad as the premise sounds.

[Colt Ward]

Well, its a different premise except for that certain set of soldiers being used.