Armored Fightning Vehicles MK III

[Feenix74]

Depending on the subject, you can get paid commissions for those kinds of things.

My retired father-in-law builds model ships. One of the guys that he knows through his model ship building club has a business building models for Dept of Defence and defence industry:

He says, on a game company's forum for a single product line. ::)

Fair point, well made . . . I am only jealous, as I sigh and look at my ever expanding collection of unassembled and unpainted BT minis  :-[

[ColBosch]

Fair point, well made . . . I am only jealous, as I sigh and look at my ever expanding collection of unassembled and unpainted BT minis  :-[

I've really got to get back to my BattleTech backlog one day. I've got over a grand in plastic, pewter, and lead sitting in Tupperware, waiting its turn. The main problem is the thousand or so Ogre miniatures I'm planning on painting this year. The nice thing is when the two collections overlap, like the old-school "giant" Demolisher I'm converting into a Chinese cybertank.

[BairdEC]

I'd guess they were driving buttoned up with low illum, and the driver and TC didn't notice the cut for the road.  Light amplification is a wonderful thing, but the viewers can be deceiving when conditions are poor.

every time I see that pic, I wind up wondering weird stuff, like how that 120mm Rhinemetall  mount is holding it up at that angle, and what in heck was going on with the crew that they ended up doing that (and HOW they ended up doing that.)

[PsihoKekec]

As some Israeli guy explained on Militaryphotos ages ago, there is a curve on a serpentine road few meters above the picture site and newbie driver badly misjudged the curve.

[Cannonshop]

As some Israeli guy explained on Militaryphotos ages ago, there is a curve on a serpentine road few meters above the picture site and newbie driver badly misjudged the curve.

I'd guess they were driving buttoned up with low illum, and the driver and TC didn't notice the cut for the road.  Light amplification is a wonderful thing, but the viewers can be deceiving when conditions are poor.

Um, I guess I wasn't really clear.  The cause of the accident is explained, but what's got me kind of going "Whut" isn't the cause, it's the ability of the tank's main gun to hold up that much weight, and specifically the gun's MOUNT and the balancing act involved.  It didn't flip over, it didn't tilt, it didn't de-balance with the 'live weights' of the crew inside, and they  were able to get out again.

To me, that's like a feat, you know?

[Kidd]

supposedly, this Leopard 2A4 was hit by an ATGM. if true, I think it was only a glancing blow.

What with improving armour and APS protection, tanks are almost approaching BT levels of tough-to-crack these days. I hear some have resorted to 'platoon fire' with 4 tanks firing on a single enemy tank.

[Sabelkatten]

I had a friend (haven't heard from him in over ten years) who designed AT weapons for a living. His complaint was that tanks were getting so tough it soon wouldn't be practical to lug around AT weapons - anything powerful enough to hurt a tank would be too heavy!

[HobbesHurlbut]

At that point, you might as well go for an excellent ability to incapacitate the tank (by aiming at the track if they're exposed or attacking the engine deck from above, or by messing the tank's ability to observe situations around itself.

[Kidd]

I had a friend (haven't heard from him in over ten years) who designed AT weapons for a living. His complaint was that tanks were getting so tough it soon wouldn't be practical to lug around AT weapons - anything powerful enough to hurt a tank would be too heavy!

It practically already IS that way. It takes powerful ATGMs like Konkurs, Javelin or Spike-MR to destroy a modern MBT from any appreciable distance and these missile systems are barely man-portable.

[kato]

supposedly, this Leopard 2A4 was hit by an ATGM. if true, I think it was only a glancing blow.

A penetrating hit in that sector of the turret would have at least blown up the hydraulics tank (on an A4) and the blow-out panels above that would be pretty visible.

Damage looks like something moderately light and HE. Possibly a direct mortar strike.

What with improving armour and APS protection, tanks are almost approaching BT levels of tough-to-crack these days.

That A4 is 20 years old and not particularly posing much of an obstacle to halfway modern AT weapons.

[Matti]

I had a friend (haven't heard from him in over ten years) who designed AT weapons for a living. His complaint was that tanks were getting so tough it soon wouldn't be practical to lug around AT weapons - anything powerful enough to hurt a tank would be too heavy!

Have any of those tanks (from 10 years ago) been in combat, and how tough those are compared to older Abrams (1980), Challenger 2 (1998), and Leopard 2 (1979)? And yes, I know tanks I named have got newer armour and kit.

[Kidd]

A penetrating hit in that sector of the turret would have at least blown up the hydraulics tank (on an A4) and the blow-out panels above that would be pretty visible.

Damage looks like something moderately light and HE. Possibly a direct mortar strike.
That A4 is 20 years old and not particularly posing much of an obstacle to halfway modern AT weapons.

Indeed. I mean come on, even the grenade launchers are relatively intact  ::)

I was talking about more modern tanks... such as T-90s with Relikt ERA 8)

[Van Gogh]

Speaking of AT weapons... I went to the Invalides museum in Paris this week-end and managed to get a shot at the last (and original), famous and infamous 75mm recoilless rifle Vespa.
The mannequin on top of it (in a 1960's para battledress) shows the scale...

(sorry, it's dark, no flash allowed to protect all the uniforms on display)

[Sabelkatten]

Ahh, I wish Car Wars had allowed you to pack a Blast Cannon on a light bike. As is you had to go all the way to a HD-sized bike to fit one... ^-^

[truetanker]

Would that be a Bumper Trigger or remote firing?

Good times, as long as you weren't wearing plastic boy body armor!

TT

[glitterboy2098]

you actually removed it from the scooter and stuck it on a tripod before firing. the scooter mount was for transport only.
the Vespa 150 TAP was meant for use with paratroops, since the scooter could be airdropped more easily than a jeep could.




the scooters were also meant to be dropped in pairs.. one 75mm Recoilless rifle, two scooters carrying the gun, the ammo, the tripod, etc. as well as the two man firing team.

[PsihoKekec]

However mental picture of firing the AT recoilless between your legs much more manlier.

[Fat Guy]

Looks bloody uncomfortable to ride. Hitting bumps must be murder on the family jewels.

[Van Gogh]

I don't think it was rode on any other surface than a good road. No Vespa should anyway, rifle or not. In cross-country, walk beside it and use the engine for extra power.

[Kidd]

Ever wonder where that ridiculous over-under look of the Demolisher came from? Wonder no more.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Yeah, a lot of countries experimented with multi-turreted monstrosities in the period between WW1 and WW2.

They all sucked.

[Matti]

However mental picture of firing the AT recoilless between your legs much more manlier.

I can picture Duke Nukem doing it ;D

Yeah, a lot of countries experimented with multi-turreted monstrosities in the period between WW1 and WW2.

They all sucked.

T-28 served to the end of Second World War, and I understand it was better than some of the single turret light tanks with 37 mm gun or smaller.

[edit]
Or let's put it this way: would you rather be in 6 ton Vickers (or T-26) armed with 37 mm gun than in T-28?

[Sabelkatten]

Would that be a Bumper Trigger or remote firing?

Good times, as long as you weren't wearing plastic boy body armor!

TT

The guy who used it against me was just being nasty, between the targeting computer and high gunner skill... Fortunately I was able to get a much bigger engine on my bike and outran him! :D

Trying to get back to the real topic, what other armed motorcycles have there been? The Germans used MG-armed sidecars, but have there been any other?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

T-28 served to the end of Second World War, and I understand it was better than some of the single turret light tanks with 37 mm gun or smaller.

The T-28 was show to have serious design flaws during the Winter War.  During WW2, the majority of the Soviet's T-28s were lost in the opening months of the war.  By the end of 1941, the T-28 had become an exceedingly rare vehicle, with nearly as many captured tanks seeing service enemy forces as the Soviets were still using.

[glitterboy2098]

T-28 served to the end of Second World War, and I understand it was better than some of the single turret light tanks with 37 mm gun or smaller.

i'm not sure the finnish ones should count. (by the 40's most active T-28's were in finnish hands, not russian.)
and i'd question the 'better' claim.. the T-26 might have been poorly armored, but the T-28 had terrible suspension, Engine and Transmission that were a never ending source of problems even when well maintained, and unlike most of its contemporaries, it didn't have much room for upgrades and improvements. (would have had to redesign the whole tank)
it also was overcramped inside, and the hatch layout was borderline suicidal, especially if you were in one of the secondary turrets.

[Van Gogh]

Trying to get back to the real topic, what other armed motorcycles have there been? The Germans used MG-armed sidecars, but have there been any other?

IIRC the French tried a 25mm AT gun on a sidecar. Just prototypes.
Otherwise, bikes and sidecars were widely used by everyone in 1939. Then the Jeep was found to be superior in mobility, capacity and ease of repairs.

[Fat Guy]

Trying to get back to the real topic, what other armed motorcycles have there been? The Germans used MG-armed sidecars, but have there been any other?

The Matchless-Vickers 8B2/M Russian Military model of 1916:







And a whole buttload of others in WW II.

[Feenix74]

[Kidd]

Yes, the Special Forces amongst others found quad bikes very useful in the sandbox.

[PsihoKekec]

Trying to get back to the real topic, what other armed motorcycles have there been? The Germans used MG-armed sidecars, but have there been any other?

Soviets used DP-28 armed motorcycles for reconissance in their armored brigades in WWII.