Author Topic: Best NARC platforms  (Read 7216 times)

Crow

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Best NARC platforms
« on: 24 November 2019, 17:52:56 »
I know that NARC is probably an obsolete technology for most players, but the idea of painting a target with a pod and raining down indirect LRM fire has always intrigued me. The Royal Zephyr seems to me probably the most optimized NARC boat that I can think of. Fast, well armored, and relatively cheap. Can anyone offer me any better NARC platforms?

On a side note, I really wish that there was a Clan battlesuit with Compact NARC a la the Purifier, but alas I know of no canon examples :'(

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dgorsman

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #1 on: 24 November 2019, 19:55:38 »
I can't think of anything, outside of a small gun emplacement in support of some larger platforms.
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Natasha Kerensky

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #2 on: 24 November 2019, 21:09:57 »

If you’re asking for Society forces, the Royal Zephyr is about as good as it gets under the MUL.  The Odin is a less mobile but more survivable runner up.  Since there are no canon Society vehicles with Nova CEWS or iATM tricks, the Narc/TAG combo on those vehicles makes them pretty valuable for low-skilled Society forces.

Beyond Society-specific units, the Stormcrow D is probably the best Clan Narc platform — mobile, highly survivable, and carrying its own substantial missile load.  The Summoner B is basically the same thing, only jumpy.  Less survivable are various Narc configurations on the Hellbringer, Kit Fox, and Mist Lynx.

Spheroids have the Tufana as probably the best vehicle platform, with the Scimitar 3050 being available earlier and more widely.  The Kintaro is as a more survivable mech platform that could also be available to the Clans/Society, but the Owens D is a faster and probably more common, mech platform.
« Last Edit: 24 November 2019, 21:38:14 by Natasha Kerensky »
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #3 on: 24 November 2019, 21:56:53 »
You want speed and durability in a NARC platform?

Try a Hannibal. :)
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MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #4 on: 24 November 2019, 22:32:44 »
NARC launchers aren't obsolete, just badly underutilized.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #5 on: 25 November 2019, 01:24:13 »
I'm fond of the TAG Scimitar - despite the name, it carries a NARC and two SRM-4s as well. Yes, it takes motive hits for being a hover, but the utility of a lance with both TAG & NARC should provide some opportunities.
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Crow

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #6 on: 25 November 2019, 10:50:46 »
Try a Hannibal. :)

Not exactly BV, C-bill or tonnage efficient, though, is it? Definitely a unique answer, though  :D
« Last Edit: 25 November 2019, 12:26:41 by Crow »
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Colt Ward

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #7 on: 25 November 2019, 17:10:33 »
Tufana . . . when you absolutely have to point someone out to the spear carriers.

Yeah, we should have gotten a LOT of one-off refits in the 3040s and 3050s to take advantage of improving the damage of old 3025-tech missile launcher equipped machines.  Its the easiest way to increase the damage of a lance, company or battalion.  For light mechs, Locust, Jenner, Javelins IMO are the most likely candidates.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #8 on: 25 November 2019, 22:48:42 »
They're marginally useful even in the Jihad era. Yeah, there's ECM all over the place, but that ECM is in ECM mode, not ECCM keeping their C3 up.

Mind you, it takes a very unusual setup to actually encourage it to a useful degree

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #9 on: 25 November 2019, 23:07:39 »
NARC are useful Jihad & later when used with HARM munitions- even if what you do want to hit is not using ECM, you can still pull in ARAD LRMs/SRMs by what I read.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #10 on: 26 November 2019, 00:50:17 »
NARC is also less vulnerable to ECM than Artemis to begin with.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #11 on: 26 November 2019, 01:25:42 »
I'm fond of the TAG Scimitar - despite the name, it carries a NARC and two SRM-4s as well. Yes, it takes motive hits for being a hover, but the utility of a lance with both TAG & NARC should provide some opportunities.

Its not the best platform IMHO, but its hands down probably the best EASY TO ACQUIRE platform in the era when it arrives.

3050 was limited but this one shines to me as something everyone can get & get the job done well enough.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #12 on: 26 November 2019, 01:35:05 »
I know that NARC is probably an obsolete technology for most players, but the idea of painting a target with a pod and raining down indirect LRM fire has always intrigued me. The Royal Zephyr seems to me probably the most optimized NARC boat that I can think of. Fast, well armored, and relatively cheap. Can anyone offer me any better NARC platforms?

On a side note, I really wish that there was a Clan battlesuit with Compact NARC a la the Purifier, but alas I know of no canon examples :'(

Yeah, we should have gotten a LOT of one-off refits in the 3040s and 3050s to take advantage of improving the damage of old 3025-tech missile launcher equipped machines.  Its the easiest way to increase the damage of a lance, company or battalion.  For light mechs, Locust, Jenner, Javelins IMO are the most likely candidates.

In that era the 3039 Jenner-Grace is a unique but probably the best platform available if you don't mind using a unique, since, in the entirety of the IS, isn't it possible someone had the same idea?


And I'm still annoyed the Javelin got twin Streak-2's in 3050 instead of the obvious NARC that should have been put in there to spot for the rest of the company.

I'm also annoyed we still don't have a Firestarter-Omni with a NARC (Or C3 Master) to this day.


According to the MUL to this day there are only 63 units that even mount NARC.  So disappointing.  And no Mech mounting it since a 3069 Tessen variant.


Kintaro was the only mech of the entire SLDF to mount it..... along with the Zephyr-Royal as only Vee.

Hitman is one of the better mechs of the Clan Invasion era to mount it.

Scafa-D is a solid upgrade to the Zephyr-Royal.
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Crow

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #13 on: 26 November 2019, 12:45:12 »
I'm probably going to go with the Royal Zephyr or the Kintaro. But man the Kintaro is goofy looking  :D
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #14 on: 26 November 2019, 12:48:10 »
Yeah, its one that I was hoping to get in the KS because I really do like the revised look of the mech in HBS.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #15 on: 26 November 2019, 18:10:34 »
*snip*
I'm also annoyed we still don't have a Firestarter-Omni with a NARC (Or C3 Master) to this day.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #16 on: 26 November 2019, 18:44:59 »
Canon record sheets. Not everyone uses customs.
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Daryk

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #17 on: 26 November 2019, 18:53:23 »
True, but wasn't the whole point of Omnis to allow customs?

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #18 on: 26 November 2019, 21:05:49 »
In Universe . . . Out of universe . . . lots of frownies.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #19 on: 26 November 2019, 21:10:48 »
And people wonder what motivates us grognards…  ::)

dgorsman

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #20 on: 26 November 2019, 21:11:30 »
Canon record sheets. Not everyone uses customs.

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Good for ongoing campaigns.  Not so much for pickup/drop in games, especially if some players are new to the group.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #21 on: 26 November 2019, 21:32:08 »
Good for ongoing campaigns.  Not so much for pickup/drop in games, especially if some players are new to the group.

Exactly.

Customs is fine for a home game, but not a Catalyst Demo game at your local FLGS.


I want a nice capable NARC platform Mech on the IS GEN list in the 3050's,  is that so much to ask for????   DO YOU HEAR ME DEVS!!! 

/breaths in,  breaths out.

And nobody better say Trebuchet-7M.

Though I still think that if we had gotten a 5S upgrade on the 7M chassis with some extra armor/DHS that it would have been beautiful.

While I'm at it,   Cavalry (NARC) should be a thing too.


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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #22 on: 27 November 2019, 00:52:02 »
Tufana . . . when you absolutely have to point someone out to the spear carriers.

Yeah, we should have gotten a LOT of one-off refits in the 3040s and 3050s to take advantage of improving the damage of old 3025-tech missile launcher equipped machines.  Its the easiest way to increase the damage of a lance, company or battalion.  For light mechs, Locust, Jenner, Javelins IMO are the most likely candidates.

Hand-wave it as there was a real bottleneck in narc capable munitions production early on, leading to the actual pods not being able to be capitalized on, and that spiralled into shallower deployment as things trended towards artemis. By the time artemis became dead weight due to ECM proliferation, it was too hard to replace everything with narcs.

VHS vs Betamax. 

Besides, quartermasters would hate the system. Lance 1, able company has two narc-capable mechs, a raven and a custom medium. Do the archer and longbow in lance 3 get full loads of NARC by default? Partial loads? How often and effectively do the two groups opperate together?



Now, what do you do after a minor skirmish if somebody otherwise intact gets Narced? Send them home to the techs? With escort? have them carry on? How badly does getting Narced raise your long-range sensor profile, and for how long?

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #23 on: 27 November 2019, 01:51:42 »
One more job for BA troopers: nit picker.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #24 on: 27 November 2019, 03:17:53 »
Oh, they DO get a OS Narc Launcher . . . but their SRMs & LRMs cannot be NARC compatible . . .
Colt Ward
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #25 on: 27 November 2019, 03:24:02 »
True, but wasn't the whole point of Omnis to allow customs?

Not really, no. It was to allow a mech to be refit for different missions very quickly. It was also to help improve the downtime from repairs by allowing that damaged arm or weapon to be swapped out for another when the mech is otherwise fine to run.

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #26 on: 27 November 2019, 03:43:12 »
Owens D has Narc and a TAG. I typically rely upon infantry to spot for indirect fire, but I have been considering using NARC/iNarc for the same purpose. As others have mentioned, ECM is everywhere, but sometimes people decide that they don't need ECM next game because it didn't really do much in the last game. Its similar to people dropping machine guns and flamers, if I see that you do so then its my job to make you rethink that move for the next game.

Not to long ago I was working on a vtol with 2 narc launchers. I wanted it to be sort of a Pinata spitting out narc pods onto slow moving units. If they ignore it then everyone is going to be hit with a pod or two. If they attack it then they are ignoring my other units. The pods are to be used with plenty of lrms to rain on them and get a few easy kills if they don't have ECM. If they do have ECM then I want them getting nice and clustered for other things. ;D

grimlock1

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #27 on: 27 November 2019, 12:09:22 »
NARC is also less vulnerable to ECM than Artemis to begin with.
I never realized that NARC was only affected if the target was in an ECM field.

NARC was always meh for me.  iNARC had some neat options and the +1 TH was nice, but between the size, weight and smaller bins it never really struck me as a leap forward. 

Then TW came out and tied linked NARC with IDF.   This makes LRM boats the fire support units they were always fluffed as. Now they can hang back behind a hill, set the parking brake and make it rain.   NARC assisted indirect fire doesn't suffer terrain modifiers, and with some care, you can park your LRM boat and avoid AMM. It's not perfect. You are typically taking a shot in the long range bracket, with the IDF +1. I've typically had a lot of fun with it though.   Especially once the victim closes into medium range.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #28 on: 27 November 2019, 12:21:45 »
Its all about forcing choices . . .

Your opponent wants his mechs & tanks to shelter under the ECM bubble to protect against NARC/Artemis IV?  All the units crouched under the umbrella now becomes a great place to send in artillery.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #29 on: 27 November 2019, 13:57:02 »
The best NARC platform is a good intel campaign that causes your opponents to to walk onto the battlefield with NARC beacons already installed in them

dgorsman

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #30 on: 27 November 2019, 14:23:41 »
Its all about forcing choices . . .

Your opponent wants his mechs & tanks to shelter under the ECM bubble to protect against NARC/Artemis IV?  All the units crouched under the umbrella now becomes a great place to send in artillery.

Or Swarm LRMs.
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grimlock1

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #31 on: 27 November 2019, 14:39:58 »
The best NARC platform is a good intel campaign that causes your opponents to to walk onto the battlefield with NARC beacons already installed in them
There may be something wrong with you but you are fun to watch.  From a distance. :-)

Or Swarm LRMs.
Now I'm suddenly getting interested in those things.  They've always seemed too situational to warrant the expense, but now if I can encourage the other fellow to cluster up, the ideas start to flow.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #32 on: 27 November 2019, 15:06:10 »
You want to get your enemies to cluster up? Bring fighters. Play a few games with them, enough for your buddy to figure out that clusters of units are certain death for aeros of any kind.

Then bring a force that includes aeros, artillery, AND Swarms. >:D
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Daryk

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #33 on: 27 November 2019, 16:53:01 »
Heh... I had an opponent cluster up at the beginning of a game, so I dropped the entire bomb load on it.  He remained spread out for the rest of the game...

The best NARC platform is a good intel campaign that causes your opponents to to walk onto the battlefield with NARC beacons already installed in them
That's not really an intel campaign... more "Special Operations", really.  Sabotage is where you cross the line.  Both Intel and Special Operators seem to be pretty particular about the distinction.

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #34 on: 28 November 2019, 04:11:39 »
That's not really an intel campaign... more "Special Operations", really.  Sabotage is where you cross the line.  Both Intel and Special Operators seem to be pretty particular about the distinction.
This isn't commando's sneak onto base and plant stuff, but rather getting an agent in place to plant them, pretty sure that makes it intel, not SpecOps

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #35 on: 28 November 2019, 07:36:34 »
Direct Action is only one of 13 SOF missions...

Cannonshop

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #36 on: 02 December 2019, 08:29:17 »
Direct Action is only one of 13 SOF missions...

Kind of depends on where your agent is.  If the NARC beacon is installed at the FACTORY because it was added to the PLANS...
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #37 on: 02 December 2019, 09:31:41 »
Then somebody gets free beer for five generations.
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Daryk

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #38 on: 02 December 2019, 17:14:36 »
Kind of depends on where your agent is.  If the NARC beacon is installed at the FACTORY because it was added to the PLANS...
That's right up there with the original TSM and green smoke missiles... which also qualifies as a "strategic" effect accomplished by a relatively small number of people.

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #39 on: 04 December 2019, 11:03:56 »
Kind of depends on where your agent is.  If the NARC beacon is installed at the FACTORY because it was added to the PLANS...
If you're going that far, why not install half an ounce of plastic explosives in the headrest of the command couch?
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #40 on: 04 December 2019, 12:58:14 »
If you're going that far, why not install half an ounce of plastic explosives in the headrest of the command couch?

Social generals would detect the difference in neck support faster than a bomb-sniffing dog could find it.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #41 on: 04 December 2019, 13:20:47 »
Did we ever get OS NARCs for mech/veh scale?  I know BA have OS Compact NARC, but I was wondering if it had made it over to mechs.

Otherwise IMO the best 3040 & later solution would be a handheld launcher for something like a Wasp or Phoenix Hawk.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #42 on: 04 December 2019, 15:47:14 »
Yes. In fact, there's a Linebacker config with an iOS NARC.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #43 on: 04 December 2019, 16:22:47 »
Never paid attention to it . . . but a check shows its from 3055u and a intro of '68/Jihad per the MUL.  So not really available in the 40s if there is a IS version.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #44 on: 04 December 2019, 16:24:52 »
Doesn't mean the tech isn't available, just that no canon platform mounted it.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #45 on: 04 December 2019, 16:49:27 »
Anything you like with SRM6 can become a NARC launcher
Harassers, pegasi,javelins etc
For early in the tech explosion it's a great multiplier, you only need to convert 1 or 2 units per company to range ahead and start podding targets
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #46 on: 04 December 2019, 17:04:59 »
Per TacOps pg327 the i-OS has a intro date of '56 for the Dracs and '58 for the Clans.  Without a canon published date for the i-OS NARC, I would personally use the earliest appearance on a canon design.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #47 on: 05 December 2019, 03:18:07 »
So somebody is asking about NARC...

And their a Society Player...

Narc Aero Un
Ahab-443b
Chippewa IIC
Chippewa IIC

TT
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #48 on: 05 December 2019, 10:31:51 »
Remember that NARC can only be fired at targets on the ground, and that fighters are prohibited from carrying NARC-capable missiles. It's purely a ground support weapon.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #49 on: 05 December 2019, 19:24:24 »
Since when? Because at least two fighters were built around NARCs back in the day.

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #50 on: 05 December 2019, 19:37:26 »
Since Total War was first released, if not earlier. Possibly AT2r.

An aero with a NARC is lighting up ground targets for ground units to shoot at, and nothing else.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #51 on: 06 December 2019, 01:13:06 »
It is really weird that Aeros can't use NARC munitions, since they can use Artemis. 
Oh well.

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #52 on: 06 December 2019, 01:31:24 »
Artemis makes sense, because it's pretty much a permanent bonus that can get factored in to their standardized damage values, and only to that particular unit. You can't do that with NARC, you'd need multiple damage values on every record sheet. Every missile-carrying sheet ever, mind you, not just the sheets of those units actually carrying the NARC. Including all DropShips and larger.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #53 on: 06 December 2019, 01:48:44 »
Trying to hit a moving target at hundreds of KPH is alot harder than tens of KPH, and much easier to keep track of.

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #54 on: 06 December 2019, 10:26:50 »
*shrug* its just the nature of AT abstraction- you do not roll for number of clusters on LBX or missile and it makes UACs pretty solid.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #55 on: 07 December 2019, 03:14:33 »
I know where I'd fantasize putting a narc dispenser.  on a fast VTOL, with it in a chin-turret.

fly along the enemy line, distributing pods, then haul ass out of there to a nice distance and spot for indirect LRM fire.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #56 on: 07 December 2019, 14:58:03 »
I know where I'd fantasize putting a narc dispenser.  on a fast VTOL, with it in a chin-turret.

fly along the enemy line, distributing pods, then haul ass out of there to a nice distance and spot for indirect LRM fire.

Since we´re in the business of fantasizing... I fantasize of a pop-up mine that, instead of spraying shrapel in all directions, sprays Narc pods.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #57 on: 07 December 2019, 15:04:37 »
What about either LAM(with AirMech mode, of course) or VTOL? Just for spit some beacons and run they seems the best bet I think.
« Last Edit: 07 December 2019, 15:10:33 by PuppyLikesLaserPointers »

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #58 on: 10 December 2019, 11:15:51 »
What about either LAM(with AirMech mode, of course) or VTOL? Just for spit some beacons and run they seems the best bet I think.

A fast hovertank, VTOL, or WiGE is much cheaper to design, produce, and crew than a LAM.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #59 on: 15 December 2019, 15:25:23 »
There is a Cavalry variant with NARC in my head since 3058 dropped & it really needs to be canon.

It would have made SO much more sense than that dumb "Extra SRM-2" variant that we got initially.

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #60 on: 16 December 2019, 05:19:36 »
A fast hovertank, VTOL, or WiGE is much cheaper to design, produce, and crew than a LAM.


But LAM is more durable and stable than them, for it is still a battlemech. WiGE can be an alternative but it is very expensive.

And the cost of LAM is very, very cheap if you can afford it and its pilot.

Just for a cheapshot VTOL is not a bad choice either, as I said above.

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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #61 on: 16 December 2019, 05:54:18 »
There is a Cavalry variant with NARC in my head since 3058 dropped & it really needs to be canon.

It would have made SO much more sense than that dumb "Extra SRM-2" variant that we got initially.

"makes sense" is probably why such a variant doesn't exist.  hear me out here, look at some of the canon designs that use Narc, or Beagle, TAG, etc. etc. etc.

There's an awful lot of units that just don't have the mobility to actually use these, and a few that have the mobility, but are hugely expensive in both c-bills and bv.  (looking at you, Tessen).

There's a basic game design principle that goes something like "if you have the ability to customize units, then canon units need to have obvious flaws."

a Cavalry that subs in a Narc system instead of yet-another-SRM winds up being pretty optimized for the typical table, this would lead to either needing to change the way NARC works to require line of sight, or adding Narc pods to the things AMS shoots down, or both, or some other nerfing effect to keep it centric to 'mechs and the preferred paradigm.  (a 10/15 scout unit that doesn't have to hang close tossing Narcpods that isn't a 'mech? heresy!)

This is a bit like the presence of Beagle-on assault 'mechs.  Or like the paired C3 Masters on a Daisho when you can't have more than one network-it's a try to balance things to keep the main focus of the game on the one-on-one duelling combat between battlemechs.  it might make more tactical and strategic sense to fit fast units that aren't stand-and-slug-it-out with gear like Narc, iNarc, Beagle, and TAG, but that making strategic sense is exactly why such units are rare.  while it's much more likely to see such equipment on 3/5 assault units that don't have the mobility to really use them effectively as more than fluff and weight-sinks.
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Re: Best NARC platforms
« Reply #62 on: 16 December 2019, 11:30:25 »
Errrmmm... bad examples.  AMS can shoot down Narc pods.  There's a reason why there's rules to handle single incoming rounds.  And the Tai-sho Mech has two C3 masters to tie together the three lance command masters (including the other master for the third lance), so a conventional Mech company can be fully linked without extra units.
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