Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...

[garhkal]

TFA was problematic in that it was competent...but average and left too many questioned unanswered. What should have come across as plot hooks for the next story came across as plot holes. All it would have needed was a few extra scenes or lines where Rey used the Force, showing her as talented but untrained. Never mind it was almost a beat for beat reshoot of ANH.

I do wish, even in the novelization, they'd have explained HOW it was, Rey, was just so quick at picking up using the force, when it seemed NOTHING in her backround, indicated she was force sensitive..  The other plot hook/hole, i'd have liked to seen explained, was exactly why when Leia re-formed a rebellion (of sorts), we never heard of/saw the older characters, heroes OF THE resistance (such as lando, acbar, wedge etc), TILL they brought them in, in TROS.. (except for ackbar who was somewhat of an afterthought, and barely had any screen time till they killed him off in TLJ).

TLJ was problematic in that it ignored or actively dismissed much of what TFA setup. Then it compounded that error by dismissing some of the existing rules of the universe. The Holdo manuever, for example, might have looked great but it was a move that simply should not work in universe. It also made the bad guys look stupid and part of any competently told story is to try and hide the idiot stick

True..  Everything we saw of hyperspace, PRIOR TO of course Rogue one, showed one Did NOT DO IT in an atmpshpere, or close to one, due to the risk of dying..  Then we got TWO instances of a ship jumping to hyperspace (one in TFA and one in rogue one), and then the holdo maneuver..

the ridiculous mutiny and the fact Poe Dameron was a traitor who single handled wiped out the Resistance and there is much to dislike.

As a military brat, AND someone who served, he should have had a LOT MORE than merely a demotion, happened to him for that stunt with the bombers...  Then his mutiny, should have seen him permanently stripped of rank...  The fact, he's still leading in Ep 9, shows just how buggered up the writers are, in not even THINKING of proper military rules/structure etc..
ADD to that, his revealing TOP SECRET data, over a unsecured commline to Finn, with that hacker listening in), and that alone, should have been grounds for a charge of treason.  ESPECIALLY Since THAT IS WHAT led to 2/3rds of the drop ships getting destroyed..

TLJ - I kept getting the feeling that there waas entire subplots cut out. Poes unreasonable distrust of Holdo makes much more sense if there had been a traitor storyline. That the fleet was being tracked because of the traitor.

I also think that chase stuff, would have been better, had there been a traitor in the midst of the fleet, one who actually DISABLED the hyperdrive (or better yet, destroyed it), rather than the maguffin of "they can track us"..

[monbvol]

Lando's waitwhat?

There is an unconfirmed fan theory that the other defector stormtrooper that Finn met is Lando's daughter.

Personally I don't think that is true but can't rule it out either.

All I'll say about other incidents of hyperspace tracking is that everything I can think of can be attributed to beacons or there being doubt about the ship actually being in hyperspace at the time of being tracked.

[Daryk]

Mutiny is a straight out the airlock offense...

[dgorsman]

They could of handled the no-hyperspace thing with an interdiction cruiser.  The appearance of gravity well generators on screen would have gone down well with everyone, I think.

[Lorcan Nagle]

No - but you didn't see see TESB ignore much of what happened in ANH either.
And with Lucas involved, there was someone there with a single vision of where to go.

Here's the thing:  JJ Abrams was an Executive Producer on Last Jedi and had script approval.  If he didn't like what Rian Johnson had written, he could have changed things. Granted, he wasn't tapped to take over Rise of the Skywalker until after last Jedi wrapped, but if he felt the storytelling choices in it were bad, he was in a position to change them before they hit the screen.  He chose not to.  There were a lot of people above Rian Johnson who could have pumped the brakes on him at any time and chose not to.

As a military brat, AND someone who served, he should have had a LOT MORE than merely a demotion, happened to him for that stunt with the bombers...  Then his mutiny, should have seen him permanently stripped of rank...  The fact, he's still leading in Ep 9, shows just how buggered up the writers are, in not even THINKING of proper military rules/structure etc..

This is the same movie series that gave a pair of criminals the rank of General for no discernible reason except "they helped us out".  You might be barking up the wrong tree looking for any level of military realism here.

[Daryk]

Mutiny is a straight out the airlock offense ESPECIALLY among criminals.

[Lorcan Nagle]

Mutiny is a straight out the airlock offense ESPECIALLY among criminals.

Star Wars also happens to be family entertainment.  You might be barking up the wrong tree looking for people to be killed in particularly gruesome manners,

[Daryk]

So was Guardians of the Galaxy, and they showed that...

[Talen5000]

There is an unconfirmed fan theory that the other defector stormtrooper that Finn met is Lando's daughter.

Personally I don't think that is true but can't rule it out either.

Not quite

Part of Landos backstory is that he tried to settle down after the death of the Emperor. He ended up having a child.
The First Order deliberately targetted the families of ex Rebellion heroes and his home was raided and his daughter kidnapped.
Which is why he has been wandering around the past twenty or so years.

The fan theory is that Jannah is his daughter....and is a theory which obviously crossed his mind at the end when he talked to her. But without the backstory, there is nothing to give context to that exchange so while you KNOW it is significant simply because of how it was shot, you don't know why.

All I'll say about other incidents of hyperspace tracking is that everything I can think of can be attributed to beacons or there being doubt about the ship actually being in hyperspace at the time of being tracked.

Regardless of the mechanism, being tracked through hyperspace is nothing new in the SW universe. It happens several times in the movies alone. The characters in the new sequel, however, describe it as "impossible". A Traitor hyperwaving the fleet location to the First order, the presence of an Interdictor cruiser, sabotage or breakdown of the hyperdrive, a beacon on one of the ships, would all have achieved the same same end of requiring a chase sequence without the flubbery of "hyperspace tracking".

[Lorcan Nagle]

So was Guardians of the Galaxy, and they showed that...

They also had the people being spaced survive.  Unless you're suggesting Poe's punishment should have been getting a little bit spaced?

[Daryk]

Two out of how many survived being spaced?  And no, he should have absolutely been executed on the spot.

[Nightlord01]

Here's the thing:  JJ Abrams was an Executive Producer on Last Jedi and had script approval.  If he didn't like what Rian Johnson had written, he could have changed things.

I'm going to need a source on this here Lorcan.

The only reference I can find to JJ being EP is on Wookipedia, Lucasfilm website and IMDB list only KK as Producer. No source I've see suggests JJ had script approval.

[Lorcan Nagle]

I'm going to need a source on this here Lorcan.

The only reference I can find to JJ being EP is on Wookipedia, Lucasfilm website and IMDB list only KK as Producer. No source I've see suggests JJ had script approval.

JJ Abrams is listed as Executive producer on IMDB.  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2527336/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm

[Scotty]

Two out of how many survived being spaced?  And no, he should have absolutely been executed on the spot.

I suspect that CT is talking about in the first Guardians, where everyone who ends up in hard vacuum with no headgear survives.

Which is ultimately secondary to the fact that the only people who could have decided to space Poe (Holdo and Leia) decided not to.  Junior officers don't get to just decide to summarily execute someone in custody, regardless of offense.

Which is all tertiary to the fact that this conversation has nothing to do with Rise of Skywalker, which I think we should fix.

[Wrangler]

I just watched a Graham Norton episode 12 of his 26th season who had Daisy on the show.  Part conversation including asking if Daisy was going to play the part Rey again. She responded that it was it for her character.   I guess they're really going dump all these characters or they not letting the actress/actors know if they got role play in years ahead?

[Nightlord01]

JJ Abrams is listed as Executive producer on IMDB.  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2527336/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm

Heh, fair enough.

However I've still not seen anything that states he had control of the script, not a given. The EP is mostly about production of the movie, not the content. That's the domain of the Screenwriter and Director.

[monbvol]

I do get the impression that scripts are given at most cursory skims looking for overly objectionable content or to ensure certain ratings but are otherwise rubber stamped.

At least most re-writes and re-shoots I am aware of do tend to happen well after a movie is underway, not before.

[Nightlord01]

I just watched a Graham Norton episode 12 of his 26th season who had Daisy on the show.  Part conversation including asking if Daisy was going to play the part Rey again. She responded that it was it for her character.   I guess they're really going dump all these characters or they not letting the actress/actors know if they got role play in years ahead?

Not surprising really, most of the actors in Star Wars only get one run at being the character. I don't think you can call it dumping, not every franchise is the MCU.

[monbvol]

It does seem 3 movies is all you can reasonably expect with more being possible.

[Ogra_Chief]

So, I finally went to see SW:RoS; given I had already read the plot outline a month ago, and watched every Youtube spoiler vid in the last few days. I was well prepared for the ending of the Saga. As mindless fun, without the 'baggage,' RoS is standard Hollywood fare, not much else, but worth the Holiday ticket. Frenetic, messy, shallow, confusing, but fun; would be my opinion as a standalone film. As the ending of a 42 year journey, no. I'll leave at that. So, I'm a firm, no. Recorded here for posterity.

However, I did surprisingly like the the whole (Reylo) Rey and Kylo dynamic more than I thought I would, and really would liked to have seen that story as the center piece of a trilogy. A wayward Skywalker/Palpatine on opposite ends of the eternal struggle as star-crossed lovers ala Space Romeo and Juliet, may have been a missed opportunity by Disney. Preferably culminating in a child (or children) who's choices may very well decide the fate of a Galaxy. I'm thinking that story-line makes some money, and sets up a whole new generation to explore. Unfortunately, not to be.

Finally, just because no one else seems to have mentioned it. Rey is a Princess (or Empress). That is right, Rey is, "Princess Rey Skywalker (-Palpatine)." Sadly, I will not be sticking around to see how that turns out. Star Wars ended with Return of the Jedi for me.

   

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Just got access & started watching it.

Love it so far, only 2 episodes in.

It's safe to say the vast majority of SW fans will love it. With the conclusion of Season 1, it proves Jon Favreau has brought balance to the Force.

The many references to the movies and EU, and other non-SW movies are done in an elegant way IMHO, unlike a lot of things in the sequel trilogy.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

True..  Everything we saw of hyperspace, PRIOR TO of course Rogue one, showed one Did NOT DO IT in an atmpshpere, or close to one, due to the risk of dying..  Then we got TWO instances of a ship jumping to hyperspace (one in TFA and one in rogue one), and then the holdo maneuver..

I don't understand this either. I thought hyperspace had to be done in clear space without any gravitic interference, hence the creation of gravity well generators and Interdictor Cruisers to stifle hyperspace raiders.

Though he died in TLJ, I feel Admiral Ackbar was dishonored by the sequel trilogy. Legends Ackbar had by this point so many achievements and was a literal living legend but Disney-Ackbar got a desk job in TFA and appeared in TLJ to die like an afterthought leaving his son to pick up the torch in RoS.

[Wrangler]

I don't think the franchise´s technical side of it was really respected or Followed. Even since Rogue one things were breaking down. They were only going what they thought the story needed like hyperspace communication on a small tiny ship. Interdictor used in Last movie should have been sign that's how the physics work for Skywalker film. Another sign is when Rey was flying ancient X-Wing Fighter without even a Droid to help navigate. The Falcon skipping through hyperspace in atmosphere of a planet for sake of keeping audience entertained. Writers should have followed how Star Wars physics worked. It's just was very sloppy lie babe if you went by then Technologies and the other things.

EDIT : Sorry for numerous typos and grammar errors. I was dictating to my phone. Frankly i'm embarrassed by way it came out.

[Lorcan Nagle]

I do get the impression that scripts are given at most cursory skims looking for overly objectionable content or to ensure certain ratings but are otherwise rubber stamped.

At least most re-writes and re-shoots I am aware of do tend to happen well after a movie is underway, not before.

Pretty much.  What happens with a lot of blockbusters is that they lock in the big action setpieces early on, the live-action elements for those are filmed, and the effects teams get to work.  This can be a very fraught time as the editors and director will possibly be dithering about which elements of their footage to include - and only so much effects work can be done without them. Other elements might change extensively, but the big moments are so expensive that only minor changes can be made there once effects work has gotten beyond a certain point.

A big part of what did in Suicide Squad was that they did extensive rewrites and reshoots, but needed to keep in the expensive, finished action footage leading to levels of incoherence, where plotlines are either dropped with no notice or the resolution doesn't quite line up with the setup.

Ultimately the issue is with the size of the budget for these movies.  Rise of the Skywalker has a listed budget of $275 million, and conventional wisdom is that it needs to make triple that to be considered a success by the studio.  At a hypothetical $15 per ticket, that means they need to get fifty-five million people to go see the movie in the cinema.  It means they tend to run risk-averse and try and please everyone.  Which clearly doesn't always work, but if you're gambling a ton of money on making a successful movie then you might not want to risk it on allowing a small number of people to follow their artistic sensibilities.

[Skyth]

Flying an x-wing without a droid to navigate has never been an issue for a force user.  In ESB, Luke flies to Dagobah without R2's help.  He tells R2 that he'd keep it on manual.

[Nightlord01]

Flying an x-wing without a droid to navigate has never been an issue for a force user.  In ESB, Luke flies to Dagobah without R2's help.  He tells R2 that he'd keep it on manual.

There's a massive difference between keeping it on manual and flying without an astromech unit. Any pilot can keep their ship on manual navigation, it's the equivalent of flying an aircraft without autopilot. Flying without an astromech unit is equivalent to flying without a fly by wire computer, comms bank and aviation computer. Apples and oranges there.

The larger ships had stations to deal with it, hence why Han could pilot the Falcon with just a co-pilot, fighters don't have that luxury. Piloting a fighter without an astromech isn't just flying solo, it's flying without control of half your ship.

[Ruger]

There's a massive difference between keeping it on manual and flying without an astromech unit. Any pilot can keep their ship on manual navigation, it's the equivalent of flying an aircraft without autopilot. Flying without an astromech unit is equivalent to flying without a fly by wire computer, comms bank and aviation computer. Apples and oranges there.

The larger ships had stations to deal with it, hence why Han could pilot the Falcon with just a co-pilot, fighters don't have that luxury. Piloting a fighter without an astromech isn't just flying solo, it's flying without control of half your ship.

Force navigation through hyperspace has LONG been a part of the EU, and as part of Legends, the first hyperspace explorers had no astromech droids to help navigate and create the first hyperlanes. They did it all by luck or, for those fortunate that could tap into it, the Force.

That’s at least 35 years of (Legends) EU there.

Edit: it’s just something else that Disney has drawn in from the Legends stuff.

Ruger

[garhkal]

It's safe to say the vast majority of SW fans will love it.

Is it?  So far, from my 2 SW sites, two of my 3 adnd sites, and 1 other site i go to (besides here) where we're discucssing the film, i see roughly a 35-40% disliked it, 10-15% felt it was, just ok.  and 40-45% felt it was good..  Certainly doesn't seem anywhere close to a 'vast majority'..

I don't understand this either. I thought hyperspace had to be done in clear space without any gravitic interference, hence the creation of gravity well generators and Interdictor Cruisers to stifle hyperspace raiders.

Which is most of the gripes many have had about these new disney made films.  THEY Totally ignore prior film canon, to just tell "THEIR story"..

Though he died in TLJ, I feel Admiral Ackbar was dishonored by the sequel trilogy. Legends Ackbar had by this point so many achievements and was a literal living legend but Disney-Ackbar got a desk job in TFA and appeared in TLJ to die like an afterthought leaving his son to pick up the torch in RoS.

All (IMO) cause he was probably an after-thought...

[Cache]

Jedi Voices towards the end included Ashoka Tano (and both Obi Wan actors). Guess she died some time after Rebels.

Did Chewie get Han's medal at the end, or did they make another medal specifically for him? And how come he didnt get a medal in Ep IV?

I doubt they just made a medal for him in that short amount of time. I assume it was Han's.  He didn't get one in IV because he was just written as a sidekick back then. It was fanservice to give him one now (because it's been a fan gripe for decades), and I'm not complaining.

[Lorcan Nagle]

Is it?  So far, from my 2 SW sites, two of my 3 adnd sites, and 1 other site i go to (besides here) where we're discucssing the film, i see roughly a 35-40% disliked it, 10-15% felt it was, just ok.  and 40-45% felt it was good..  Certainly doesn't seem anywhere close to a 'vast majority'..

The vast majority of star wars fans don't post about it online