Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...

[worktroll]

At least I feel I can criticise the Zimmermatic in this thread. (Note: no Zimmermatic graduates were involved in the music for this film.)

[jimdigris]

 ???

[roosterboy]

Finally saw it yesterday. Perfectly serviceable entry in the series, but ultimately I was a bit bored. I don't care about Poe at all (in fact, I kinda hate him) and only slightly care about Finn. Rey is an interesting character but I was completely underwhelmed by the reveal of her parentage. Sticking with the answer given in TLJ would have been better than what we got here. I smiled when Wedge showed up and I was really surprised when Han did too. I hated that Anakin and Ben were not included as ghosts there at the end; they are Skywalkers too and it would have been appropriate to show the entire family as Rey adopts their surname and the saga named after them wrapped up.

Other than that, I can't really muster up much energy to care. It was definitely a JJ Abrams flick. Too much running and yelling and exploding punctuated by too few moments of genuine emotion and one or two ****** yeahs. More than anything, I wanted the movie to just slow down occasionally. But then, that's a problem I generally have with most modern blockbusters anyway, so that fault's not entirely on Abrams or Star Wars.

Y'know who really got the shaft during the sequels, though? R2. Even 3PO got his moment to shine but R2 got screwed out of screentime and action by that annoying little BB8. From his very first scene in TPM, R2 was one of the most heroic characters in the saga but the little guy had next to nothing to do in the sequels and was relegated to little more than a background role. I see some fans saying "Justice for Rose Tico" but I say "Justice for R2-D2!"

[Talen5000]

Finally saw it yesterday. Perfectly serviceable entry in the series, but ultimately I was a bit bored. I don't care about Poe at all (in fact, I kinda hate him) and only slightly care about Finn. Rey is an interesting character but I was completely underwhelmed by the reveal of her parentage. Sticking with the answer given in TLJ would have been better than what we got here. I smiled when Wedge showed up and I was really surprised when Han did too. I hated that Anakin and Ben were not included as ghosts there at the end; they are Skywalkers too and it would have been appropriate to show the entire family as Rey adopts their surname and the saga named after them wrapped up.

Poe has been hamstrung by being poorly written in the first two films.
He was a near non entity in TFA
And in TLJ, he was personally responsible for the destruction of the Resistance simply because he got a chip on his shoulder.
In RoS, his backstory was needlessly semi-retconned. They could have had Rose rework 3PO rather than his spice buddies.

Finn - IMO - had the most potentially interesting story. A Force sensitive stormtrooper who defected. But he also got turned into the comic relief guy - the elite stormtrooper, part of Kylo Rens unit, who turned out to be a janitor who somehow knew all about First order secret bases and top secret tech. They should have kept him with the fleet in TLJ and had him be an unwitting dupe, with a Force based personality overlay. The traitor the plot seemed to be trying so hard to set up only to have him eventually break free because he actually is a force sensitive himself.

Rey? I wouldn't have minded the "parents are nobodies" storyline (again - that is a repeat of Anakin) but Ridley wasn't capable of handling the lead role and the way the various holes in her past were handled was extremely poor. Rey needed a better actor, one able to handle the focal role of the franchise and the best I can say about Ridley is that she seems to have gotten some acting lessons in time for RoS. I'm not a fan of her work to date. She seems to be a fair voice actress but she loses something when she is onscreen. Still, she did improve with RoS which, IMO, is too little, too late. Like Poe and Finn, she was also hampered by a poor script though her story, flawed as it was, was the most developed.

All three characters are also surprisingly undeveloped despite their screentime - which I have to blame on poor scripting and uneven characterisation.

More than anything, I wanted the movie to just slow down occasionally.

Part of the problem here is that RoS was trying to fix the issues of TLJ - it was trying to fit two movies worth of material into one. It was only partially successful.

[Wrangler]

Do you guys think they will revisit these characters?  I wasn't impression it was the end of the road for them in franchise, but some interviews suggest it was.

[Ogra_Chief]

Do you guys think they will revisit these characters?  I wasn't impression it was the end of the road for them in franchise, but some interviews suggest it was.

Well Oscar Isaac (Poe), stated he is done, don't think he's a Disney+ actor. Supposedly, Poe was to die in TFA, but his film presence was enough for them to remove his death.

John Boyega (Finn), seems very done given his recent online comments, that dude don't give a sugar anymore. He definitely has taken the Harrison Ford path. He's done, and not a Disney+ actor at this point.

Daisy Ridley (1/2 of Reylo) was done at the beginning, she has repeatedly stated she had no plans to continue after the trilogy. I'm sure the scrutiny of being a major Star Wars protagonist was jarring. Though it appears that Mark Hamil took her under his wing early on to mentor her on the possible pitfalls of playing her character, which I suspect is why she has navigated hype rather well. I'm sure Mark Hamil explained the pitfalls of 'type casting', the tides of fandom, and securing the future paycheck when the studio comes crawling back for nostalgia's sake.

Adam Driver (1/2 of Reylo) is story dead, not that that would be an impediment evidently, but given he can actually act, I'd say no. Also, fun fact, Driver was apart of the Jarhead Clan.

So, possibly, comics, books, animated series, etc.? Given the lack of attachment to the new crop of characters, Disney is likely to time jump forward or back, with new characters and settings.

[monbvol]

Well Oscar Isaac (Poe), stated he is done, don't think he's a Disney+ actor. Supposedly, Poe was to die in TFA, but his film presence was enough for them to remove his death.

John Boyega (Finn), seems very done given his recent online comments, that dude don't give a sugar anymore. He definitely has taken the Harrison Ford path. He's done, and not a Disney+ actor at this point.

Daisy Ridley (1/2 of Reylo) was done at the beginning, she has repeatedly stated she had no plans to continue after the trilogy. I'm sure the scrutiny of being a major Star Wars protagonist was jarring. Though it appears that Mark Hamil took her under his wing early on to mentor her on the possible pitfalls of playing her character, which I suspect is why she has navigated hype rather well. I'm sure Mark Hamil explained the pitfalls of 'type casting', the tides of fandom, and securing the future paycheck when the studio comes crawling back for nostalgia's sake.

Adam Driver (1/2 of Reylo) is story dead, not that that would be an impediment evidently, but given he can actually act, I'd say no. Also, fun fact, Driver was apart of the Jarhead Clan.

So, possibly, comics, books, animated series, etc.? Given the lack of attachment to the new crop of characters, Disney is likely to time jump forward or back, with new characters and settings.

I tend to agree.

More live action movies with those actors playing those characters?  Unlikely enough I feel safe saying a definitive no.

Animated medium with different voice actors or comics? Yeah we'll see more there with these characters.

[Scotty]

What on earth is a 'semi-retcon'?  Is that what we're calling backstory we don't like now? ???

(To be clear this is way more confused than it is snarky.  I can't figure out how to word it that isn't at least a little bit snarky.)

[Weirdo]

What on earth is a 'semi-retcon'?  Is that what we're calling backstory we don't like now? ???

(To be clear this is way more confused than it is snarky.  I can't figure out how to word it that isn't at least a little bit snarky.)

Concur. There's a huge difference between retconning(semi or otherwise) and filling in empty gaps. They're nothing alike.

I asked earlier, but it seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle. Did anyone ever makes a list of known ships or ship types in the big rebel fleet? All I caught was the Ghost, some Profundity-types, and a U-wing.

[I am Belch II]

Concur. There's a huge difference between retconning(semi or otherwise) and filling in empty gaps. They're nothing alike.

I asked earlier, but it seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle. Did anyone ever makes a list of known ships or ship types in the big rebel fleet? All I caught was the Ghost, some Profundity-types, and a U-wing.

its not as great as you think. Its mostly stuff that was in other movies and cannon lore.

The Youtube channel Spacedock.... (great Scifi ship site) did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBwwNstmdzo

Also EckhartsLadder did a breakdown also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he1_csLnwmQ

[Ruger]

I asked earlier, but it seems to have gotten lost in the shuffle. Did anyone ever makes a list of known ships or ship types in the big rebel fleet? All I caught was the Ghost, some Profundity-types, and a U-wing.

Per the Wookieepedia entry:

MC75 and MC85 cruisers and various other Mon Cal ships
DP20 frigates
Nebulon-B and C frigates
Pelta-class frigates
Vakbeor-class cargo frigates
Braha’tok-class gunships
Sphyrna-class corvettes
Free Virgillia-class bunkerbusters
Baleen-class Heavy freighters
The Ghost
The Millenium Falcon
The Outrider (or at least some YT-2400 freighter)
And some other vessels

Ruger

[Scotty]

I know I saw a Fang fighter from Rebels when the lightning was flying, too.

[garhkal]

Poe has been hamstrung by being poorly written in the first two films.
He was a near non entity in TFA
And in TLJ, he was personally responsible for the destruction of the Resistance simply because he got a chip on his shoulder.

True, in TFA, he seemed to have, what.  Maybe 10 minutes of screen time. 3  in the intro, where he got caught, 2 in the escape, 2 over Mas Katana's place, and 3 more in the star killer battle...

Finn - IMO - had the most potentially interesting story. A Force sensitive stormtrooper who defected. But he also got turned into the comic relief guy - the elite stormtrooper, part of Kylo Rens unit, who turned out to be a janitor who somehow knew all about First order secret bases and top secret tech. They should have kept him with the fleet in TLJ and had him be an unwitting dupe, with a Force based personality overlay. The traitor the plot seemed to be trying so hard to set up only to have him eventually break free because he actually is a force sensitive himself.

Yea, it made NO sense what so ever to me, that a Storm trooper, would first off, be a Janitor.  Nor did it make any sense to retcon him into being a force user/force sensitive...
I'd have much preferred it if he was just someone who broke free of their brainwashing, and wanted to get GONE, then fell in love with Rey, so wanted to help the resistance to show that love..

Rey? I wouldn't have minded the "parents are nobodies" storyline (again - that is a repeat of Anakin) but Ridley wasn't capable of handling the lead role and the way the various holes in her past were handled was extremely poor.

See did seem underwhelming in TLJ to me.  And many of us fans had lots of different theories on her parentage..  BUT GOT BLOWN out of the water, with what they actually made her...

Well Oscar Isaac (Poe), stated he is done, don't think he's a Disney+ actor. Supposedly, Poe was to die in TFA, but his film presence was enough for them to remove his death.

John Boyega (Finn), seems very done given his recent online comments, that dude don't give a sugar anymore. He definitely has taken the Harrison Ford path. He's done, and not a Disney+ actor at this point.

Daisy Ridley (1/2 of Reylo) was done at the beginning, she has repeatedly stated she had no plans to continue after the trilogy. I'm sure the scrutiny of being a major Star Wars protagonist was jarring. Though it appears that Mark Hamil took her under his wing early on to mentor her on the possible pitfalls of playing her character, which I suspect is why she has navigated hype rather well. I'm sure Mark Hamil explained the pitfalls of 'type casting', the tides of fandom, and securing the future paycheck when the studio comes crawling back for nostalgia's sake.

Adam Driver (1/2 of Reylo) is story dead, not that that would be an impediment evidently, but given he can actually act, I'd say no. Also, fun fact, Driver was apart of the Jarhead Clan.

So, possibly, comics, books, animated series, etc.? Given the lack of attachment to the new crop of characters, Disney is likely to time jump forward or back, with new characters and settings.

Yea, i can't see any of them being back on the screen, but in comics/games, sure..
And i liked Driver the most out of those 4 main characters.  THOUGH the one i would love to see more explained about, is MAS Katana!

[I am Belch II]

Adam Driver was the best actor out of the big 4, it showed in the last movie more than the other 3. He matured more than the others as a actor.
I actually thought Daisy Ridley got worse over the movies....She was better in TFA over RoS.

[Garrand]

Yea, it made NO sense what so ever to me, that a Storm trooper, would first off, be a Janitor.

I assumed this was a duty he had before he was elevated to full Stormtrooper rank. Like, maintain the garbage chutes until you pass your qualification tests. I know it was put in there as a gag, but I didn't find it completely unbelievable.

Damon.

[dgorsman]

Cause troopers never get literal shit details.   ;)

Makes me wonder if the prior TFA line about no previous problems was accurate.

[dgorsman]

Ah, no.  I was referring to on screen where Phasma (?) is talking about Finn being sent for review, after he helps Poe escape.

[Wrangler]

Phasma story really got mucked up and abandoned unfortunately.  I was surprised they didn't try salvage her story but maybe there was too many tweeks and fixes last movie allow her story go.

[Death Monkey]

I assumed this was a duty he had before he was elevated to full Stormtrooper rank. Like, maintain the garbage chutes until you pass your qualification tests. I know it was put in there as a gag, but I didn't find it completely unbelievable.

Damon.

During my time in the Navy, there was a wonderful tradition called mess cranking. Pretty much every E-3 and below got send to be a janitor/busboy/maid for a certain period of time. Maybe the First Order reinstated it?

[monbvol]

Plus there is a certain question of who would be the janitor in his stead in a secure area?

The First Order arrogantly(and wrongfully) believed their conditioning techniques were effective so from that perspective it makes sense why they'd use their conditioned troops for menial tasks.

After all it is use a Stormtrooper or vet someone else.

[Talen5000]

Plus there is a certain question of who would be the janitor in his stead in a secure area?

The First Order arrogantly(and wrongfully) believed their conditioning techniques were effective so from that perspective it makes sense why they'd use their conditioned troops for menial tasks.

After all it is use a Stormtrooper or vet someone else.

Or they could do what everyone else does and use a droid.

[garhkal]

Cause troopers never get literal shit details.   ;)

Regular army or navy troopers, maybe.  STORM troopers (who are supposed to be the elite), i just can't see it.

[I am Belch II]

Regular army or navy troopers, maybe.  STORM troopers (who are supposed to be the elite), i just can't see it.

Well you have all these Stormtrooper and they have nothing to do. Instead of training them of battle tactics, and shooting.....give them basic recruit jobs.

[Wrangler]

Aren't Storm troopers kidnapped young people the First Order brainwashed into being their troops? 

I do find the idea horrible but writers are writers when their told by bigger wigs to write something. I rather see clones done instead. 

I did fine the point of the Sith's objectives in the movie baffling. (Destroy all the inhabited planets in universe so they will obey.) With no one left in the universe who will work with them?  Again i though it was over reach/over the top threat for the good guys who seems be way out numbered.)  Frankly I expect the fallout with the New Republic government "destroyed" by Star Killer One, the organized space will be chaotic / political nation fighting / high piracy / Criminal Activity  - Aka nice back ground for a RPG setting but that's it.)

[Garrand]

Regular army or navy troopers, maybe.  STORM troopers (who are supposed to be the elite), i just can't see it.

Who says that Stormtroopers are elite enough to be able to avoid the menial stuff every other soldier has to do throughout history? Have we seen "regular army' First Order troops (as opposed to things like technicians)? In Rogue One we see stormtroopers on prisoner transport duties...something you would use "regular army" type troopers for if Stormtroopers were really the cream of the crop. IMHO not something the SW universe establishes.

Damon.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Per the Wookieepedia entry:

MC75 and MC85 cruisers and various other Mon Cal ships
DP20 frigates
Nebulon-B and C frigates
Pelta-class frigates
Vakbeor-class cargo frigates
Braha’tok-class gunships
Sphyrna-class corvettes
Free Virgillia-class bunkerbusters
Baleen-class Heavy freighters
The Ghost
The Millenium Falcon
The Outrider (or at least some YT-2400 freighter)
And some other vessels

Ruger

Apparently no thought was given to show us an actual working New Republic navy. If that big fleet that arrived right at the end had existed for so long, it baffles the mind why they never appeared in the combined prior 7+ hours of the sequel movies. The uninformed viewer can assume that the First Order has conquered the galaxy with a pitiful fleet of 30 Star Destroyers and a dreadnought and think that Palpatine's fleet of Xyston-class is overkill.

No thought was even given to portray the logistics of constructing, recruiting and supplying the Xyston fleet and legions of stormtroopers on Exegol. Palpatine literally has hammerspace powers.

[Nightlord01]

Who says that Stormtroopers are elite enough to be able to avoid the menial stuff every other soldier has to do throughout history? Have we seen "regular army' First Order troops (as opposed to things like technicians)? In Rogue One we see stormtroopers on prisoner transport duties...something you would use "regular army" type troopers for if Stormtroopers were really the cream of the crop. IMHO not something the SW universe establishes.

Damon.

I can see both sides of this coin. On one hand you have the fairly typical military mindset for soldiers to be doing menial/trying tasks. This achieves two aims, reminding the junior ranks who's the boss, and building esprit de corps because humans tend to gain resilience and bond more strongly in adverse environments, and you don't want your soldiers first facing adverse environments in combat.

On the other hand, FO Stormtroopers aren't elite, they are purely cannon fodder. The First Order wasn't particularly large, but still mostly won battles by sheer weight of numbers. Stormtroopers were expendable, and conditioned and trained to see each other as such. In this environment you don't want them bonding, as this will lead them to try and keep each other alive, allow popular groups to grow and potentially pose a threat to the hierarchy, incredibly common in militaristic orders.

In the second environment you want your soldiers to be automatons, not caring thinking people.

To top this off, no matter what your stripe here, a soldier is unlikely to be posted to a sanitation position. That was added in pretty much for comic relief and to aid in believing that Finn would know where a garbage chute was no matter where they were in the station.

[Wrangler]

Apparently no thought was given to show us an actual working New Republic navy. If that big fleet that arrived right at the end had existed for so long, it baffles the mind why they never appeared in the combined prior 7+ hours of the sequel movies. The uninformed viewer can assume that the First Order has conquered the galaxy with a pitiful fleet of 30 Star Destroyers and some dreadnoughts and think that Palpatine's fleet of Xyston-class is overkill.

No thought was even given to portray the logistics of constructing, recruiting and supplying the Xyston fleet and legions of stormtroopers on Exegol. Palpatine literally has hammerspace powers.

My impression is they didn't spend money on adding new new ships to fleet of civilians that responded to the plea for help.
Looks like nothing from the 2nd movie for ships goes, including the new Star Dreadnought & the Star Destroyer-Carrier  from the first movie from what i saw was present at all.  Unless they were tiny image on big 3D screen. Entire new Sith fleet for the First Order was ancient SDs. 

[nckestrel]

I agree it was poorly presented (the fleet).

apparently the New Republic never went to war with the First Order (thus Leia having to form a private Resistance movement) before the New Republic capital/Senate was destroyed by the Starkiller.  The New Republic basically cease to exist at that point.

So Lando had to go to each individual system and convince them separately to go to war, and send their fleets to Exegol and join the Resistance in their planned fight there.  so the individual planets still had their fleet, they just needed somebody to coordinate them.  The First Order never conquered the galaxy.  They destroyed the New Republic as a government, and nearly destroyed the Resistance. 

But the movies were so focused on the Resistance v First Order that it appears the First Order has conquered everything and the appearance of an allied fleet is out of nowhere.

[Ruger]

My impression is they didn't spend money on adding new new ships to fleet of civilians that responded to the plea for help.
Looks like nothing from the 2nd movie for ships goes, including the new Star Dreadnought & the Star Destroyer-Carrier  from the first movie from what i saw was present at all.  Unless they were tiny image on big 3D screen. Entire new Sith fleet for the First Order was ancient SDs.

The Sith fleet was comprised of Xyston-class Star Destroyers. They may look similar to the older Imperial Star Destroyers, but they are half again as long (about 2400 meters in length).

Ruger