Author Topic: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...  (Read 34505 times)

Fat Guy

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #180 on: 03 January 2020, 15:18:15 »
(Destroy all the inhabited planets in universe so they will obey.)

No, an ultimatum was broadcast: Surrender or be destroyed.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #181 on: 03 January 2020, 15:49:02 »
No, an ultimatum was broadcast: Surrender or be destroyed.

And the bloody broadcast was in Fortenite!

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #182 on: 05 January 2020, 07:24:03 »
My impression is they didn't spend money on adding new new ships to fleet of civilians that responded to the plea for help.
Looks like nothing from the 2nd movie for ships goes, including the new Star Dreadnought & the Star Destroyer-Carrier  from the first movie from what i saw was present at all.  Unless they were tiny image on big 3D screen. Entire new Sith fleet for the First Order was ancient SDs.

The Star Destroyer-Carrier did appear as Kylo's ship in RoS, but they inexplicably disappeared in the final battle.

I agree it was poorly presented (the fleet).

apparently the New Republic never went to war with the First Order (thus Leia having to form a private Resistance movement) before the New Republic capital/Senate was destroyed by the Starkiller.  The New Republic basically cease to exist at that point.

So Lando had to go to each individual system and convince them separately to go to war, and send their fleets to Exegol and join the Resistance in their planned fight there.  so the individual planets still had their fleet, they just needed somebody to coordinate them.  The First Order never conquered the galaxy.  They destroyed the New Republic as a government, and nearly destroyed the Resistance. 

But the movies were so focused on the Resistance v First Order that it appears the First Order has conquered everything and the appearance of an allied fleet is out of nowhere.

Even if they destroyed the capital and the central government, don't they have regional or sector capitals/strongpoints to rally around? Like Corellia, Mon Calamari, Kuat, Fondor etc. Agreed that the Resistance v First Order conflict was too focused upon.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #183 on: 05 January 2020, 10:38:07 »
I believe they wanted to focus more on the character's story arcs. I'm fine with it but i think entire movie Suffered in sense.

Which i don't think gives a lot time on other details like ships and fleshing out alot new things like what heck happened to the New Republic and it's parts.

Everything in the story almost felt...rushed.   Sorry it's just how it felt. Once Kylo Ren became Ben Solo, he seemed to not be as big of character anymore. Almost new one, which didn't have enough time establish who is Ben Solo. 

The Sith world's difficulty of being found like they took Solo movie's very messed up Kessel Run cloud/nebular and reused it reason why no one knew where the world was.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #184 on: 06 January 2020, 06:53:58 »
I believe they wanted to focus more on the character's story arcs. I'm fine with it but i think entire movie Suffered in sense.

Which i don't think gives a lot time on other details like ships and fleshing out alot new things like what heck happened to the New Republic and it's parts.

Everything in the story almost felt...rushed.   Sorry it's just how it felt. Once Kylo Ren became Ben Solo, he seemed to not be as big of character anymore. Almost new one, which didn't have enough time establish who is Ben Solo. 

The Sith world's difficulty of being found like they took Solo movie's very messed up Kessel Run cloud/nebular and reused it reason why no one knew where the world was.

The character focus would be better if they made a cohesive trilogy. Rian Johnson really did too much damage for RoS to fix it.

Kylo Ren's redemption to Ben Solo is one of the things that made it feel like a second movie was better than two in one.

Curious. I didn't connect it to Kessel. The cloud/nebula effect kept bringing up memories of Malachor V from KOTOR II.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #185 on: 06 January 2020, 09:45:16 »
Want to say I finally watched it this weekend with my 10yo daughter. She loved it & said she cried a little at the end. For me though, I have to agree: pacing was off from the start, which made the dialog almost frenetic in parts. I thought any scene with the Emp in it was pretty well done, but everything felt rushed, & some elements (like the Knights of Ren) were poorly used. While I appreciate all the scenes with Leia using actual footage of Fisher, it felt clumsy & she came across as being out-of-it, rather than integrated into the scenes she was a part of. Unnatural. IMHO it would have been better to kill her off at the beginning of the movie somehow than what we got. I still am unclear on her connection with Kylo/Ben & how that "turned" him. There was also very little world building (it would have been nice when they go to the Sith homeworld to get a little bit of exposition & history to add to the setting).

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #186 on: 06 January 2020, 15:37:05 »
I saw this article today as well: https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/why-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-director-j-j-abrams-will-likely-never-work-with-disney-again.html/

If this is true, it seems Disney rushed this one out, & IMHO it shows.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #187 on: 06 January 2020, 16:10:58 »
I saw this article today as well: https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/why-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker-director-j-j-abrams-will-likely-never-work-with-disney-again.html/

If this is true, it seems Disney rushed this one out, & IMHO it shows.

Damon.

Let's be blunt -IMO, this is easily the best of the Sequel trilogy.

But it isn't perfect. Far from it. And its flaws stem MOSTLY from the way the first two films were mishandled, specifically the disaster that was TLJ

There was obviously no planning involved in the creation of this trilogy...meaning RJ jettisoned much of what TFA set up, and JJ retruned the favour jettisoning much of what TLJ did.
The film is rushed because it is trying to fit an entire trilogy worth of story into just two hours.
The film has plot holes because much of what needed to be set up in the previosu two films...wasn't.

The worst part is that it is still easily the best of the trilogy, and shows how badly both TFA and TLJ were handled. It's all to easy to suggest that Lucas also set out with no overarcing vision, or a linked trilogy but he also crafted three largely independent films where each built upon the last and where plot hooks were left as plot hooks without growing into logic bombs and plot holes.

TFA and TLJ never had that luxury and so RoS had too much to do.

I don't think there is much that Disney could do to fix it. They weren't going to restart the trilogy and the film needed another hour or runtime to make some degree of headway. Better yet, it needed an extra film or two.



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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #188 on: 07 January 2020, 01:16:08 »
I think one of the things that bugs a lot of people is how Palpatine's survival undermines the characters' sacrifices and triumphs in the previous movies. It bugs me, too. But in fairness to the writers and directors, would it have been possible to create a sequel to the original trilogy which didn't, in some way or form, undermine the achievements and accomplishments of the previous two trilogies?

The obvious answer from EU fans is the "Thrawn Trilogy", but even there, regardless of what you think of the quality of the writing, it would mean the final victory in ROTJ wasn't final, Anakin Skywalker didn't restore peace to the galaxy, and so on. In addition, any story about how the New Republic isn't so great after all simply winds up retreading the same ground as the prequels.

I think if you look at a lot of the best-loved SF/Fantasy sequels, usually they've been follow ups to small-scale, low-stakes, character-driven stories rather than end-of-the-universe "Chosen One" tales:

Aliens--Original focused on one alien, one crew, one ship, leaving room for expansion and escalation.

Wrath of Khan--Star Trek was built around a serialized, monster/villain-of-the-week format, and the ST II's villain's goals are very specific to the character.

Dark Knight Returns--Comic books in general have a certain degree of recursiveness built into the format--you know that no matter how many times Batman defeats the Joker, the Joker will always escape again--so as with Star Trek, it's more of a defeat the villain of the week format rather than "save the world" story.

Mad Max (either II or Fury Road, depending on your tastes)--Again, the focus is on the survival of one specific group of people, not the entire planet.

*Borderline Case*
Terminator 2--This one walks the line, as John Connor is a kind of a save-the-world "Chosen One" figure, but I'd argue T2 works because the main character is his mom, Sarah Connor, and her survival/victory in T1 is never negated or retconned. I think this is also why later sequels have struggled.

*Exception that Proves the Rule?*
Lord of the Rings--As a sequel to the Hobbit, it again expands on an (apparently) small-scale adventure. It's interesting to also consider LotR as a "sequel" to the Silmarillion, even though that was published after LotR and indeed after the death of JRR Tolkien himself, where the stakes are actually much smaller, and it does appear to undermine the victory over Morgoth. However, here the overall theme of Tolkien's works is one of the gradual fading/decline of magic and its replacement by our very mundane and ordinary world. It's notable that Tolkien tried and quickly gave up any attempt to write a sequel to LotR, noting it would only be about how people get bored with goodness, and thus wasn't worth writing about.

In that sense, I think it's also very notable that there has been a much more positive reaction to the Mandalorian, which is, yep, you guessed it, small-scale and character-driven.

TL;DR I don't think ANY sequel series would have been rewarding to watch, as you're trying to follow up the kind of story which by its very nature doesn't lend itself to sequels.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #189 on: 07 January 2020, 07:07:14 »
The Thrawn books were great because Thrawn was previously a subordinate that could stand on his own after being left to his own devices, proving a worthy challenge to the main characters and merely defeated by a twist of fate.

New Jedi Order was YMMV, but IMO it did well to introduce unique new enemies that didn't retread old ground or reinvent the wheel like TFA or TLJ. Even Dark Empire was crazy awesome because it took the time to do world-building and gave us lots of new units with varied abilities but the sequel movies seem to be fixated on Khyber crystals and different styles of superlasers.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #190 on: 07 January 2020, 09:48:55 »
I think one of the things that bugs a lot of people is how Palpatine's survival undermines the characters' sacrifices and triumphs in the previous movies.

I'll never understand this attitude. Where is it written that a victory must be absolute and permanent to count as such? Winning a fight doesn't mean there are no more fights. The Rebel Alliance brought down an empire, and brought decades of peace to the galaxy. The survival/resurrection of the big bad at the top doesn't change any of that. And when the First Order arrived to undo everything and Palpatine cackled his evil cackle once more, it was Rebel veterans and the memory of the Alliance itself that lead and inspired the Resistance to carry on their fight, so Resistance victories are also Rebel victories.
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Garrand

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #191 on: 07 January 2020, 10:52:39 »
I'll never understand this attitude. Where is it written that a victory must be absolute and permanent to count as such? Winning a fight doesn't mean there are no more fights. The Rebel Alliance brought down an empire, and brought decades of peace to the galaxy. The survival/resurrection of the big bad at the top doesn't change any of that. And when the First Order arrived to undo everything and Palpatine cackled his evil cackle once more, it was Rebel veterans and the memory of the Alliance itself that lead and inspired the Resistance to carry on their fight, so Resistance victories are also Rebel victories.

I think if you interpret the point of the movies as being the overthrow of the Empire, then yes I can see how bringing back the Emperor undoes that victory at the end of Jedi. However, as Lucas stated the movies are Anakin's story, then the point of the movies isn't the overthrow of the Empire, per se, but the redemption of Anakin. Bringing back the Emperor absolutely does not invalidate that victory.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #192 on: 07 January 2020, 11:14:19 »
I'll never understand this attitude. Where is it written that a victory must be absolute and permanent to count as such? Winning a fight doesn't mean there are no more fights. The Rebel Alliance brought down an empire, and brought decades of peace to the galaxy. The survival/resurrection of the big bad at the top doesn't change any of that. And when the First Order arrived to undo everything and Palpatine cackled his evil cackle once more, it was Rebel veterans and the memory of the Alliance itself that lead and inspired the Resistance to carry on their fight, so Resistance victories are also Rebel victories.

I can explain that a little.  This is an image I see going around. It lays down a course of events that have to have happened to get from where we left the characters to where we see them int he new series.  I don't take Triumphs to just be about the BBEG, but the character's own personal triumphs.

Leia, goes from a powerful leader in the New Republic, only to have the republic ignore a threat until they construct a more devastating super weapon that destroys the capital worlds

Han Solo, who grew out of his loner smuggling ways in the first series has not only returned to them, but then lost the falcon and had to be taught how to repair his own ship.

Are these an other changes possible? perhaps, but it isn't satisfying to see the heroes of the old story all have failed so spectacularly without seeing the fall.  We saw them triumph, and we return to them all having fallen already. 

I think it would have been better to either jump ahead to where our old heroes are already dead, or have a trilogy showing the fall of the previous heroes in a way that makes sense to the characters rather than just a simple reversion.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #194 on: 07 January 2020, 11:49:05 »
I can explain that a little.  This is an image I see going around. It lays down a course of events that have to have happened to get from where we left the characters to where we see them int he new series.  I don't take Triumphs to just be about the BBEG, but the character's own personal triumphs.

Leia, goes from a powerful leader in the New Republic, only to have the republic ignore a threat until they construct a more devastating super weapon that destroys the capital worlds

Han Solo, who grew out of his loner smuggling ways in the first series has not only returned to them, but then lost the falcon and had to be taught how to repair his own ship.

Are these an other changes possible? perhaps, but it isn't satisfying to see the heroes of the old story all have failed so spectacularly without seeing the fall.  We saw them triumph, and we return to them all having fallen already. 

I think it would have been better to either jump ahead to where our old heroes are already dead, or have a trilogy showing the fall of the previous heroes in a way that makes sense to the characters rather than just a simple reversion.

You can see at least a large portion of what happened with Liea in the novel Bloodline. This also provides some details on what happened with Han, as does the Aftermath series of novels and the Star Wars Adventures comics.

You can see the formation of Kylo Ren in the comic series “The Rise of Kylo Ren”.

There are several other novels, comics, etc. that provide the background info you ask for above.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #195 on: 07 January 2020, 11:55:43 »
Leia, goes from a powerful leader in the New Republic, only to have the republic ignore a threat until they construct a more devastating super weapon that destroys the capital worlds
Again, she helped bring about decades of peace, and her subsequent leadership and example helped the Resistance fight the First Order. Not a failure, especially since she continued the fight when the new thread arose.
Quote
Han Solo, who grew out of his loner smuggling ways in the first series has not only returned to them, but then lost the falcon and had to be taught how to repair his own ship.
He hadn't owned the Falcon in years, of course he wasn't familiar with the modifications the interim owner had made. I'd find it incredibly hard to believe if he'd simply jumped right back in like putting on an old jacket. As for the rest? Divorces/estrangements and midlife crises happen to folks, it's called living lives. If you're going to see these characters as people, then you also have to accept that people things are going to happen to them. We knew from the moment Force Awakens was announced that it wasn't going to be a happy ever after for them, otherwise there wouldn't have been anything to make the new trilogy about.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #196 on: 07 January 2020, 12:12:38 »
f you're going to see these characters as people, then you also have to accept that people things are going to happen to them. We knew from the moment Force Awakens was announced that it wasn't going to be a happy ever after for them, otherwise there wouldn't have been anything to make the new trilogy about.

A) Star Wars was always billed by Lucas as modern myth -a fairytale in space. Gritty realism is out of step with the nature of Star Wars.

B) A sequel with a new generation of heroes & a new threat didn't require all the previous heroes to so disappointingly degrade. See also the previous decades Star Wars fiction.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #197 on: 07 January 2020, 12:35:15 »
Lucas also thinks that Palpatine wheezing out 'Unlimited Power!' on Ian McDiarmid's worst day of acting was somehow dramatic or intimidating or whatever he was going for. I feel no obligation to incorporate his views into my moviegoing experience.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #198 on: 07 January 2020, 13:07:24 »
Lucas also thinks that Palpatine wheezing out 'Unlimited Power!' on Ian McDiarmid's worst day of acting was somehow dramatic or intimidating or whatever he was going for. I feel no obligation to incorporate his views into my moviegoing experience.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #199 on: 07 January 2020, 15:42:02 »
Lucas also thinks that Palpatine wheezing out 'Unlimited Power!' on Ian McDiarmid's worst day of acting was somehow dramatic or intimidating or whatever he was going for. I feel no obligation to incorporate his views into my moviegoing experience.

I wasn't attempting to convince you to change your views.

I'll never understand this attitude. Where is it written that a victory must be absolute and permanent to count as such?

I was simply attempting to assist in your understanding the above. Some of us don't believe in Death of the Author, crave an uplifting fantasy tale of heroics, & associate the Star Wars brandname with such because its creator did the same. It may not be to your liking, but I don't think it's that hard to comprehend.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #200 on: 07 January 2020, 19:37:20 »
I guess it all comes down to what you see the "core" of Star Wars as being. Just to take a couple of examples from this thread (not picking on anyone, just examples to illustrate):

A) Star Wars was always billed by Lucas as modern myth -a fairytale in space. Gritty realism is out of step with the nature of Star Wars.

I think if you interpret the point of the movies as being the overthrow of the Empire, then yes I can see how bringing back the Emperor undoes that victory at the end of Jedi. However, as Lucas stated the movies are Anakin's story, then the point of the movies isn't the overthrow of the Empire, per se, but the redemption of Anakin. Bringing back the Emperor absolutely does not invalidate that victory.

Is the core
(A) The tone/style of a fairy tale or heroic, galaxy-sweeping space opera adventure? (as in MadCapellan's example)
(B) The characters, i.e. the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker? (Garrand's example)
(C) The universe itself, the TIE fighters and X-wings and AT-ATs and lightsabers and all that? (Rich Evans of Red Letter Media has argued that point in several reviews)
(D) The themes, adolescent yearning for adventure and grappling with the responsibilities of adulthood, love and redemption, evil=control/oppression/dictatorship vs. good=freedom/individuality
... or something else?

Of course, it's not going to be 100% one of those things, but I think as a thought experiment it's useful to try to identify which one is the biggest/most important, most core element. Because, just as an example, if you go with option (A) tone/style, then you wouldn't do a movie like Rogue One, which is much more downbeat. Similarly, if you say it's option (B) the characters, then you really can't do any more as you've already told their stories.

Personally, even as a kid I was always more invested in the look, feel and sound of the universe than Luke's story, so I'd go with (C). I just enjoy spending time in the universe, so I'd be happy to watch a heist movie or a war movie or a comedy-adventure set there. But I can see if you want the tone of SW or the characters, then that approach would be disappointing.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #201 on: 08 January 2020, 13:16:30 »
You can see at least a large portion of what happened with Liea in the novel Bloodline. This also provides some details on what happened with Han, as does the Aftermath series of novels and the Star Wars Adventures comics.

People shouldn't have to read a novel (or three) to figure out "Why is XYZ this way, when he used to be ABC"??/
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #202 on: 08 January 2020, 13:30:32 »
I'm kinda with that.

I like the idea that novels, etc expand on things that couldn't fit in the movie, but would prefer not to have to rely on external sources to understand basic plot elements.

Plus you've got the 'sprawl' problem that affected the old EU so badly. Even here, the zig-zag-zig between three films - TFA, TLJ, TROS - has the potential to throw external works out of synch. For example, Phasma - as a character never actually 'lived' in the movies for me; was she explained in a book? And if so, would the book have been made irrelevant by the character's minimal use in  TLJ?
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Garrand

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #203 on: 08 January 2020, 13:32:16 »
Phasma got her own book with her origin story. I felt it was a real plod to get through & not especially interesting.

And Phasma as a character was grossly underused, & a waste of Gwendolyn Christie's talents.

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Wrangler

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #204 on: 08 January 2020, 19:50:31 »
Something amusing.  This is related to this.
Do you think this was deliberate. The link a imgur picture.

Uh i lost the link in editing...sorry everyone.
« Last Edit: 09 January 2020, 06:33:15 by Wrangler »
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KayEmm

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #205 on: 09 January 2020, 01:06:54 »
Saw again for the second time today. First time was the "friends and family" viewing, and the second was the "watching for myself and noticing stuff" viewing.
So I felt like throwing down a few thoughts of my own as what's otherwise a lurker. (But a huge Star Wars fan). This is very Stream of Consciousness.

Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley's shared chemistry throughout the series, but especially in this film is fantastic. There's an amazing intensity and energy between the pair of them that you don't get otherwise in Star Wars. While there's the playful banter between Harrison and Carrie, yes, it's a different type of chemistry. (Conversely Hayden and Natalie rarely look like they're in the same room). While it's especially true in the fight scenes, just everything they do well together works fantastically for me.

Kylo/Ben's scar vanishes after Rey heals him. Force healing or imagery? Why not both?

There's a very strong case for Finn being Force-Sensitive. I figure it's what he wanted to say to Rey myself. It also feels like Jannah is as well to me based on little bits and pieces.

There's a massive Poe/Finn undertone. I'm calling it the Poemance.

I love the look of the Knights of Ren. They serve their function as ominous henchmen and then a miniboss fight along the way.

Speaking of, Ben is all "this saber is the weapon that killed my father and is a symbol of all my failures, I'm throwing it away!". And then later he's so "I wish I hadn't done that"

Ian Mcdairmid spends most of the film as an ominous vague shadow and yet he still is so much ham. I love it.

Zori goes into battle with a Muppet. She's smart. You should allways have one.

Oh, and nameless female Stormtroopers. That's something I'm amazingly happy with.

I never realised before now that I've always wanted to ride a horse on a Star Destroyer.

I can't wait to get it on DVD (or something) to play the Pause and spot the ship game.

All in all, I loved the Sequel Trilogy. I'd take them any day over the Prequel Trilogy. It's hard to call on the Original Trilogy, because Nostalgia takes a powerful pull. I'd take any of those over the old Expanded Universe, however. (Then again, I'd also take a rusty fork to the eye over the old EU, so take that how you will)
« Last Edit: 09 January 2020, 01:12:50 by JayVee »
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garhkal

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #206 on: 09 January 2020, 02:28:02 »
Phasma got her own book with her origin story. I felt it was a real plod to get through & not especially interesting.

And Phasma as a character was grossly underused, & a waste of Gwendolyn Christie's talents.

Damon.

I think they tried to do for her, what they did with Boba fett.  BUT the fans didn't LIKE it..

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Lorcan Nagle

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #207 on: 09 January 2020, 04:43:55 »
I think they tried to do for her, what they did with Boba fett.  BUT the fans didn't LIKE it..



Hyped up character based on their first appearance who goes out like a goon in their second?  Yup, sounds like Boba Fett to me.
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Nightlord01

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #208 on: 09 January 2020, 05:09:49 »
I'm kinda with that.

I like the idea that novels, etc expand on things that couldn't fit in the movie, but would prefer not to have to rely on external sources to understand basic plot elements.

Plus you've got the 'sprawl' problem that affected the old EU so badly. Even here, the zig-zag-zig between three films - TFA, TLJ, TROS - has the potential to throw external works out of synch. For example, Phasma - as a character never actually 'lived' in the movies for me; was she explained in a book? And if so, would the book have been made irrelevant by the character's minimal use in  TLJ?

This is my feeling too, I will be entertained by media as I see fit, not as I need to just to understand your movie. I love reading books, but find that Star Wars books are pretty universally poorly written, and I'm not going to fork out another $20 on a book only to find out I can't get through it. I also don't read comics anymore, and haven't for more than a decade.

I shouldn't have to read books to learn how someone living hand to mouth could possibly learn how to pilot star ships, or who this admiral is who's just taken over the Resistance, given that she was introduced in a manner indicating everyone knew her.

KayEmm

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #209 on: 09 January 2020, 06:10:36 »
Hyped up character based on their first appearance who goes out like a goon in their second?  Yup, sounds like Boba Fett to me.

I heard that he fell in the Sarlacc pitt three times. That's clearly what made him so popular.
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