Author Topic: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...  (Read 34505 times)

Kentares

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #330 on: 03 May 2020, 11:09:14 »
Palpatine has some select advisors who are strong with the Dark Side.  And the Inqisitorium.  And depending which continuity you follow, the Hands as well.  At some points the number is so high it stretches the imagination a bit that it's widely unknown.

Indeed that is the case (talking about WEG RPG) but I think that not even most of the ranked officers in the Empire knew... and ISB helped to control the truth spreading false rumours among other things (I remember reading an adventure about that but cant remember if it was made by WEG or some other source like the Challenge Magazine).

Of course all of that should be void with the new canon.
« Last Edit: 03 May 2020, 11:12:30 by Kentares »
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Ruger

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #331 on: 03 May 2020, 12:07:00 »
Palpatine has some select advisors who are strong with the Dark Side.  And the Inqisitorium.  And depending which continuity you follow, the Hands as well.  At some points the number is so high it stretches the imagination a bit that it's widely unknown.

A couple dozen or so (serious) Force users in a galaxy (max) with population numbers in the hundreds of trillions?

Yeah, I can buy that it’s widely unknown/disbelieved, or just not taken seriously.

How many things have become fodder for disbelievers in modern times that happened just a few decades ago?

Ruger
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Cannonshop

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #332 on: 03 May 2020, 13:00:37 »
A couple dozen or so (serious) Force users in a galaxy (max) with population numbers in the hundreds of trillions?

Yeah, I can buy that it’s widely unknown/disbelieved, or just not taken seriously.

How many things have become fodder for disbelievers in modern times that happened just a few decades ago?

Ruger

too many to count, honestly.  some of it is due to disinformation, some can be chalked to plausible alternate explanations, some can be chalked down to just popular misconception or even that great standby, self-delusion.

Palpatine keeping his force sensitivity a secret? Not implausible at all-there are far too many 'more reasonable' explanations to the average person-who-never-saw-one out there.
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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #333 on: 03 May 2020, 13:23:08 »
The thing I question the most is his comment about the Emperor and the Force. In-universe, does anyone other than Vader know that Palpatine is a Force user? WEG's Star Wars Sourcebook makes a point of that being unknown (wondering how he can make Vader bow down to him).

I heard the book about Tarkin has his inner thoughts shown to believe the Emperor is a Sith & that Vader is Anakin.

But Tarkin knew them both in the Clone Wars so has a closer knowledge than most.

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Sabelkatten

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #334 on: 03 May 2020, 15:00:04 »
You know, if anything, I'd say the prequels ruined the Jedi...

Think about it - in the original trilogy we see (IIRC) a total of three raw displays of power, two of them by the pair that wiped the floor with the whole order (Luke leaping out of the freezer i ESB, Vader stopping the blaster bolt in ESB, Palpatine's force lighting in RotJ).

In the prequels Jedi are throwing stuff left and right. Sure, most people will still not have seen it directly, but it's hard to imagine there not being at least some cameras around during the clone wars. People would have watched vidcasts. Even with the Empire trying to suppress the knowledge it would have been hard to turn it into a "hooky religion" in just a decade.

If the Jedi had been more like Obi-wan in ANH throughout everything would have made a lot more sense. :(

Ruger

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #335 on: 03 May 2020, 15:12:52 »
You know, if anything, I'd say the prequels ruined the Jedi...

Think about it - in the original trilogy we see (IIRC) a total of three raw displays of power, two of them by the pair that wiped the floor with the whole order (Luke leaping out of the freezer i ESB, Vader stopping the blaster bolt in ESB, Palpatine's force lighting in RotJ).

In the prequels Jedi are throwing stuff left and right. Sure, most people will still not have seen it directly, but it's hard to imagine there not being at least some cameras around during the clone wars. People would have watched vidcasts. Even with the Empire trying to suppress the knowledge it would have been hard to turn it into a "hooky religion" in just a decade.

If the Jedi had been more like Obi-wan in ANH throughout everything would have made a lot more sense. :(

Others you didn’t list:

Vader’s Force choke.

At least minor mind reading/empathy by both the Emperor and Vader.

Luke being able to deflect the remote’s blaster bolts and the bolts from Jabba’s Guards.

Luke’s leap from the plank onto Jabba’s sail barge.

Luke telekinetically grabs the blaster from one of Jabba’s guards.

Luke using Force Astrogation to pilot his X-Wing from Hoth to Dagobah.

Luke reaching out telepathically to Leia.

As to having video, remember when I asked how many things in just the past century people have now started denouncing as faked fabrications? Most of them have photo/video verification that they took place.

People still try to claim they are fake.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #336 on: 03 May 2020, 15:45:46 »
It's not the Emperor, but yeah.  Vader force choking multiple officers, including Admiral Ozzel in front of his own command staff, from a completely different ship, is something that would spread through the ranks ISB or no.
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Sabelkatten

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #337 on: 03 May 2020, 16:02:02 »
Good points. It was way too long since I saw the movies... ::)

DOC_Agren

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #338 on: 03 May 2020, 18:54:21 »
Others you didn’t list:

Vader’s Force choke.
Or so go with the adult swim answer...

Quote
At least minor mind reading/empathy by both the Emperor and Vader.
Lucky guesses?

Quote
Luke being able to deflect the remote’s blaster bolts and the bolts from Jabba’s Guards.

Luke’s leap from the plank onto Jabba’s sail barge.
Luke is lucky and they are poor shots and is an acrobat

Quote
Luke telekinetically grabs the blaster from one of Jabba’s guards.
Luke quick, the guard clumsy

Quote
Luke using Force Astrogation to pilot his X-Wing from Hoth to Dagobah.
does anyone know but Luke and R2?

Quote
Luke reaching out telepathically to Leia.
Well laugh twins have been able to do that..  we just didn't know it then

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Daryk

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #339 on: 03 May 2020, 18:57:55 »
That adult swim answer is HILARIOUS!  ;D

Ruger

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #340 on: 03 May 2020, 19:07:25 »
Or so go with the adult swim answer...
Lucky guesses?
Luke is lucky and they are poor shots and is an acrobat
Luke quick, the guard clumsy
does anyone know but Luke and R2?
Well laugh twins have been able to do that..  we just didn't know it then

I’ll admit, the Adult Swim answer is quite funny.

As to “Luke quick, the guard clumsy”, I feel I should point out that the gun leaped from the guard’s holster to Luke’s hand from a couple feet away.

Unless Luke is just so fast we didn’t see him run the round trip. Which invites another possible power.

 :D

Ruger
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #341 on: 03 May 2020, 20:06:51 »
Any right thinking imperial citizen knows not to take the testimony of criminals seriously.
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DOC_Agren

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #342 on: 03 May 2020, 21:02:51 »
I’ll admit, the Adult Swim answer is quite funny.
thank you...

Quote
As to “Luke quick, the guard clumsy”, I feel I should point out that the gun leaped from the guard’s holster to Luke’s hand from a couple feet away.
also not the 1st time a guard been paid off to help someone get a gun when they should not have
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I am Belch II

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #343 on: 04 May 2020, 04:42:42 »
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monbvol

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #344 on: 04 May 2020, 11:53:15 »
Watched the last episode, the actual last episode, of The Clone Wars.

I have to admit I was a bit unsatisfied by it and it is due entirely to prequelitis.

Thanks to Rebels and the news about season 2 of the Mandalorian we've known Asohka and Rex would make it through fine.  That unfortunately really ruins the tension they were trying for.

So yeah I was kind of hoping they'd go a bit more into how she managed to hide successfully because that part of her story we don't know.

Ruger

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #345 on: 04 May 2020, 12:32:05 »
Watched the last episode, the actual last episode, of The Clone Wars.

I have to admit I was a bit unsatisfied by it and it is due entirely to prequelitis.

Thanks to Rebels and the news about season 2 of the Mandalorian we've known Asohka and Rex would make it through fine.  That unfortunately really ruins the tension they were trying for.

So yeah I was kind of hoping they'd go a bit more into how she managed to hide successfully because that part of her story we don't know.

Actually, we do know a lot of how she did it from the novel Ahsoka.

As to the series finale, I found it satisfying because the series was almost always about just two characters in the end: Ahsoka and Rex.

Ruger
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monbvol

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #346 on: 04 May 2020, 12:43:11 »
Type I can I swear.

Still I will echo the sentiment that forcing people to go to outside media is not ideal.

Making the finale an extended length episode to cover some of that would have been so much better because like I said there was no tension.  Which really diminishes the tragedy they were going for to me.

Ruger

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #347 on: 04 May 2020, 14:35:50 »
Type I can I swear.

Still I will echo the sentiment that forcing people to go to outside media is not ideal.

Making the finale an extended length episode to cover some of that would have been so much better because like I said there was no tension.  Which really diminishes the tragedy they were going for to me.

For decades, unless you went to outside media, all you had was the original trilogy, and then the prequels. Outside media added the Marvel then the Dark Horse comics. And novels as well, but not much until the 90’s.

Guess I don’t have an issue with it because I’m used to it. It’s like if you want to know how Maul got away from Sidious and back to Mandalore, you have to read his comic series.

Ruger
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monbvol

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #348 on: 04 May 2020, 14:56:36 »
Which I too used to read a lot of EU novels but it kind of rubs me the wrong way here as it really cheapens the tragedy for me because we don't get hardly anything for the fall out/seeing the characters actually have to deal with it while also having to figure out their next moves which means there is no tension either because we knew all the main characters would survive.

Even just another five minutes of run time to give a better payoff is all I'd really need to rate it higher.

Kentares

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #349 on: 04 May 2020, 16:00:42 »
For decades, unless you went to outside media, all you had was the original trilogy, and then the prequels. Outside media added the Marvel then the Dark Horse comics. And novels as well, but not much until the 90’s.

Guess I don’t have an issue with it because I’m used to it. It’s like if you want to know how Maul got away from Sidious and back to Mandalore, you have to read his comic series.

Ruger

You forgot WEG RPG (since 1987) among a couple of other things as official canon (at the time and the base for the old - now legends - canon according to Pablo Hidalgo in an interview). It was ignored whenever it contradicted stuff that came out in later novels but it was Lucasfilm (and Lucas himself) bible for several years. You can see one WEG sourcebook (I think it is at least) in the table discussion in that youtube video I mentioned in the Mandalorian topic where they talk about Clone Wars.
« Last Edit: 04 May 2020, 16:03:01 by Kentares »
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Kentares

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Cannonshop

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #351 on: 04 May 2020, 17:03:18 »
You forgot WEG RPG (since 1987) among a couple of other things as official canon (at the time and the base for the old - now legends - canon according to Pablo Hidalgo in an interview). It was ignored whenever it contradicted stuff that came out in later novels but it was Lucasfilm (and Lucas himself) bible for several years. You can see one WEG sourcebook (I think it is at least) in the table discussion in that youtube video I mentioned in the Mandalorian topic where they talk about Clone Wars.

for a moment of utter heresy, The West End Games Star Wars was a fundamentally BETTER game than the D20 thing that came after.  as for story material...

eh, whatever.  I'm with the guy who says if you have to look up an outside source for the movie you're watching to make any sense, it's the movie-maker's fault, and the movie is bad and not worth the money.

One of the things the OLD Extended Universe did very well, was keeping things so that the original trilogy didn't need the exposition-from-an-outside-source to work-the old EU material added, but it wasn't required reading for the characters to make sense or for the plot to be exciting and immersive.

I kind of look at it as "I don't want to need wikipedia and my kindle open to comprehend the movie, or for character x, y, or z to make sense and be engaging on screen."

Your mileage may vary.

Standing Alone, TFA felt like they were just rewriting ANH, only with less story and more explosions.  TLJ felt like I'd missed three or four chapters of the book that fell out while waiting for the bus at the start, and was missing huge chunks that would make me care about the B plot, and again, it felt to me like they replaced story writing with expensive special effects.  The BEST part of TLJ were the Luke scenes and the pit of mirrors scene, but it was like a teaser trailer for a much better story...that we did not get with Episode 9.

Though again, really nice special effects shots and costume work.

contrast this with Rogue 1.  Rogue 1 built a good story and stood on it's own, the characters were engaging and interesting, the plot didn't stumble around like a drunken fratboy with ADHD, acting was on point, when you got to the big finale, you CARED what happened.

contrast also with Solo, which was a fun little Heist movie, and (as a reader of the old novels) fit right to point.  Sure, we had different actors, and YES, there was pandering with some of the lesser characters...but Solo was right down to the core a movie about a heist with some character development that didn't change or invalidate anything that was supposed to come after.

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Re: Star Wars: The Rise of... Stuff... and Things...
« Reply #352 on: 04 May 2020, 18:17:03 »
I hope the care that was put into making Rogue One will go into the Special-Ops pre-Rogue One television series once it's done.
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