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Author Topic: Argyle class Battleship: As seen on Tri-V  (Read 2254 times)

Liam's Ghost

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Argyle class Battleship: As seen on Tri-V
« on: 20 September 2018, 03:36:53 »
Designed purely on a whim. I'm basically blank on fluff text beyond a few vague notions. It's a mass produced vessel, from a state with lots of industry but only modest technology. One that would probably exist in a timeline completely divorced from the canon battletech universe. The design is meant to evoke the Ships of the Line of the age of sail, and if I build a universe around it, I'd probably borrow the old Royal Navy rating system to classify it. Call it a 72 gun ship based on its main battery of naval cannons.

The name comes from a character on the episode of Perry Mason that was playing when I was designing it.

EDIT: As noted below I figured out what I'm going to do with this, it's a ship from a critically acclaimed multimedia series produced during the later Star League era. Details below.


                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Argyle class Battleship 
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2750
Vessel Type:       WarShip
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              1,500,000 tons
K-F Drive System:  (Unknown)
Length:            1,169 meters
Sail Diameter:     1,384 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       3
Maximum Thrust:    5
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:          
   28 White Shark
   36 NL45
   36 NAC/25
   36 NAC/10
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Argyle class Battleship 
Mass:              1,500,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass  
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                      270,000.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 3
      Maximum Thrust: 5
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive:  Compact (Integrity = 29)               678,750.00
Jump Sail (Detachable): (Integrity = 6)                                105.00
Structural Integrity: 120                                          180,000.00
Total Heat Sinks:    7,080 Single                                    6,301.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   5,100.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:              3,750.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Armor Type:  Standard  (1,512 total armor pts)                       3,599.00
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                232
   Fore-Left/Right:                  262/262
   Aft-Left/Right:                   262/262
   Aft:                                 232

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (36) with 6 doors                                5,400.00
   Bay 2:  Small Craft (10) with 2 doors                             2,000.00
   Bay 3:  Cargo (1) with 10 doors                                 104,552.00

DropShip Capacity:  6 Docking Hardpoints                             6,000.00
Grav Decks #1 - 2:  (150-meter diameter)                               200.00
Life Boats:  50 (7 tons each)                                          350.00
Escape Pods:  40 (7 tons each)                                         280.00

Crew and Passengers:
     84 Officers (84 minimum)                                          840.00
    283 Crew (261 minimum)                                           1,981.00
    136 Gunners (136 minimum)                                          952.00
    122 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8 White Shark(80 msls)     Nose        24     24     24     24  120  4,160.00
8 NL45                     Nose        36     36     36     36  560  7,200.00
4 White Shark(40 msls)     FL/R        12     12     12     12  120  4,160.00
4 NL45                     FL/R        18     18     18     18  560  7,200.00
2 NAC/25(200 rounds)       FL/R        70     70     70     --  340 12,240.00
  2 NAC/10(200 rounds)                                          120  8,080.00
2 NAC/25(200 rounds)       FL/R        70     70     70     --  340 12,240.00
  2 NAC/10(200 rounds)                                          120  8,080.00
4 NL45                     L/RBS       18     18     18     18  560  7,200.00
2 NAC/25(200 rounds)       L/RBS       70     70     70     --  340 12,240.00
  2 NAC/10(200 rounds)                                          120  8,080.00
2 NAC/25(200 rounds)       L/RBS       70     70     70     --  340 12,240.00
  2 NAC/10(200 rounds)                                          120  8,080.00
2 NAC/25(200 rounds)       L/RBS       70     70     70     --  340 12,240.00
  2 NAC/10(200 rounds)                                          120  8,080.00
4 White Shark(40 msls)     AL/R        12     12     12     12  120  4,160.00
4 NL45                     AL/R        18     18     18     18  560  7,200.00
2 NAC/25(200 rounds)       AL/R        70     70     70     --  340 12,240.00
  2 NAC/10(200 rounds)                                          120  8,080.00
2 NAC/25(200 rounds)       AL/R        70     70     70     --  340 12,240.00
  2 NAC/10(200 rounds)                                          120  8,080.00
2 NAC/25(200 rounds)       AL/R        70     70     70     --  340 12,240.00
  2 NAC/10(200 rounds)                                          120  8,080.00
4 White Shark(40 msls)     Aft         12     12     12     12   60  2,080.00
4 NL45                     Aft         18     18     18     18  280  3,600.00
2 NAC/25(200 rounds)       Aft         70     70     70     --  170  6,120.00
  2 NAC/10(200 rounds)                                           60  4,040.00
2 NAC/25(200 rounds)       Aft         70     70     70     --  170  6,120.00
  2 NAC/10(200 rounds)                                           60  4,040.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                            Heat: 7,080   1,500,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        8,154,458,000 C-Bills
Battle Value:      315,410
Cost per BV:       25,853.52
Weapon Value:      129,774 (Ratio = .41)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 13,805;  MRV = 13,805;  LRV = 10,877;  ERV = 4,212
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 1,020,910
                   (199,445 Structure, 369,125 Life Support, 452,340 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 575,872  (56% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable
« Last Edit: 20 September 2018, 21:21:54 by Liam's Ghost »
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Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Elmoth

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Re: Argyle class Battleship: A ship without a country
« Reply #1 on: 20 September 2018, 04:35:50 »
"Lots of industry but low tech" sounds like the definition of pre-Core Federated Suns
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Argyle class Battleship: A ship without a country
« Reply #2 on: 20 September 2018, 19:33:20 »
Quote from: Elmoth on 20 September 2018, 04:35:50
"Lots of industry but low tech" sounds like the definition of pre-Core Federated Suns

I... went in a different direction. (Note, the beginnings of this idea came to me as I was writing that I had no idea where to put it, but I didn't put them together into something coherent until after I got up this morning)

Anyway, here:

Running for fifteen years (in its original form) and spawning hundreds of spinoffs and sequels (official and otherwise) over the centuries, the multimedia series "Legends of the Stars" was one of the most successful projects released by Asamiya/Taidan Entertainment of New Kyoto during the last years of the Star League. Set in a fictional universe gripped by endless conflict between the Stellar Confederation and the Nova Empire, the series focused primarily on the adventures of the crew of the Confederation battleship TMS Infinity, and their heroic captain Ryle Surgan, and was widely praised for the depth of its plot, the complexity of the characters, the shear splendor of its many space battle scenes, and its attention to realism.

[editor's note: this attention to realism nearly killed the project early on. Audience reviews of the pilot described the hyper realistic depictions of space combat, absent of sound, with the ships so far apart they couldn't be distinguished visually, and with weapons of such high energy or velocity as to be effectively invisible, as alternately boring and confusing. "Nothing interesting happens until something explodes for some reason". Acknowledging the storytelling limits of the media, the producers switched to a much more cinematic feel for the space battles, compressing distances to allow multiple ships of both sides to appear on the screen at the same time, adding beam and other light effects to weapons fire and drive plumes, using the same false color techniques as astronomers to make the space around the battle appear colorful and vibrant, and of course adding sound affects. These changes earned acclaim from audiences and critics alike, though a small core of viewers declared them a crime against art.]

Among the numerous material produced for the series was the databook Farlander's Fighting Ships, which covered the many, many spacecraft depicted through the series in intricate detail. Written with extensive consultation from engineers from the Bolson Shipyards, each design paid painful levels of attention to realistic engineering and physics, and while the writers never descended too deeply into specific details of construction, experts praised the book series for producing ships with entirely reasonable and conceivable capabilities. An old space story even suggests that Asamiya/Taidan was investigated by Star League Intelligence for corporate espionage, due to how closely the drone ships that began appearing in season 12 and were later codified in the twelfth volume of Farlander's seemed to match the performance capabilities of the M5 Caspar.

Farlander's Fighting Ships was published in sixteen volumes, one for every season that "Legends of the Stars" was on the air, plus an additional volume covering spinoffs and other suplemental materials. Taking full advantage of the electronic format, each volume was absolutely huge, containing thousands of virtual pages of statistics, schematics, and lore of the spacecraft featured throughout the series, from Argyle class Battleships like the Infinity to craft seen only in single shots in the series. Though the core multimedia series was itself a wild success and managed to spread across the Inner Sphere, it's possibly the endless details present in Farlander's  that has allowed the series to persist so long and spawn so many imitators, reboots, and spinoffs.

If the above inspires you, I offer the following guidelines.
*Ships of the Stellar Confederation tend to use naval autocannons for their main battery. Ships of the Nova Empire tend to use naval energy weapons for theirs.
*Ships of the Stellar Confederation are usually classified by the number of guns in their main battery (excluding secondary or missile batteries). For example, the Argyle is a 72 gun ship. Ships with sixty guns or more are classified as "Line of Battle Ships" (coloquially Battleships, and now you know where the term came from). Ships with fewer than sixty guns but carrying at least twenty are classified as frigates (loosely grouped into light, medium, and heavy). Ships smaller than that are generally referred to as Post Ships. It gets fuzzy when you start talking about heavier guns, a main battery composed of smaller, non-autocannon weapons, or when the weapon load is so mixed that you can't really identify a distinct main battery. In these cases they're rated by roughly how many naval autocannons their main battery would be equivalent to. Loosely speaking, every twenty points of capital scale damage counts as one "gun". This often results in such oddball ships being under-rated relative to their more conventional peers.
*Ships of the Stellar Confederation use the TMS prefix, which stands for "Their Magesty's Ship". The head of state for the Confederation is vat grown, genetically engineered to rule, and lacks sexual characteristics at all, and thus is referred to with a gender-neutral pronoun.
*Ships in the early seasons tended to resemble the Argyle in concept, relatively low technology, single heatsinks, standard armor, nothing too fancy. But the series ran for 15 seasons, and you've got to keep the audience interested, so tech creep was a must. Ultimately, these ships could be built with any star league era technologies available. Throughout the series Nuclear Weapons would only appear occasionally as a major plot point to up the stakes and show off who's being a real villain, so defense against nuclear attack isn't really a must.
*The show writers loved their realism, but the hero's ship always seemed to survive things that killed other vessels. If you want to simulate this in tabletop, each side may designate one of their ships as the "hero" (or villain) ship. This ship is treated as having ten times the structural integrity of a normal ship for damage purposes, and any critical hit that would remove its ability to keep fighting (such as destroying fire control or its last weapon bay) is always disregarded.
*In addition to the two great empires, there are, of course, independents, pirates, free traders, and other ne'er-do-wells. Jump capable ships from these smaller groups would be built as primitive jumpships, the specific era modifiers and tech limits vary from group to group.
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Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Andras

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Re: Argyle class Battleship: A ship without a country
« Reply #3 on: 20 September 2018, 20:00:44 »
Why did you use paired NAC10s instead of a NAC20? The NAC10s are overweight for the damage compared to the other NACs.
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Argyle class Battleship: A ship without a country
« Reply #4 on: 20 September 2018, 21:02:00 »
Quote from: Andras on 20 September 2018, 20:00:44
Why did you use paired NAC10s instead of a NAC20? The NAC10s are overweight for the damage compared to the other NACs.

Bracketing fire, mostly. But also because it better fit the feel I wanted. Using twenties would have dropped the total number of guns, and I wanted my ship of the line.

Logged
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Argyle class Battleship: As seen on Tri-V
« Reply #5 on: 20 September 2018, 21:52:54 »
A brief blurb specifically about the Argyle:

The Argyle class battleship Infinity, where most of the series takes place, is described as an old ship, closing in on the end of her service life when the series begins and badly regarded as a dumping ground for Their Magesty's Navy's worst. It's in this state that the primary protagonist Ryle Surgan takes command, his first command of a Ship of the Line, and must gradually earn the respect of his crew and his superiors over the course of the season and ultimately thwart the ambitions of the Empire's Prince Rugan.

Throughout the early series, many of the antagonists in Surgans own fleet are quick to sneer at his ship, not only for the motley crew, but the older ship's comparatively light armament (regularly referring to it as an "overrated frigate"). This plays a critical role in the early story arc, as the Infinity is left in reserve while the main fleet engages the enemy, and is fortunately in position to stop Prince Rugan's second force, leading to a rivalry between the two Captains that defined the first three seasons. In time, Ryle Surgan and the many exploits of the Infinity win the respect and adoration of the Confederation and the fleet that once scoffed at them.

And a rival!

One of the most popular characters of the series was Prince Rugan of the Nova Empire, who served as the main antagonist for the first three seasons and a recurring character for the rest of the series (dying heroically in the series finale while saving innocents from both sides of the conflict). An honorable but complex character, his characterization helped make the series more than just a typical story of "good vs evil".

Just as memorable was his personal battleship, the Unity, described as a "Pulsar class ship of 96 guns" and more than a match for the more humble Infinity, forcing the Confederation crew to rely on unconventional tactics to come out alive in their many encounters. 


                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Pulsar class Battleship 
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 2750
Vessel Type:       WarShip
Rules:             Level 2, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              1,800,000 tons
K-F Drive System:  (Unknown)
Length:            1,319 meters
Sail Diameter:     1,491 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       3
Maximum Thrust:    5
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:          
   36 NL55
   16 Killer Whale
   96 Heavy NPPC
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Pulsar class Battleship 
Mass:              1,800,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass  
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                      324,000.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 3
      Maximum Thrust: 5
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive:  Compact (Integrity = 35)               814,500.00
Jump Sail (Detachable): (Integrity = 7)                                120.00
Structural Integrity: 130                                          234,000.00
Total Heat Sinks:    24,000 Single                                  23,151.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   5,100.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:              4,500.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Armor Type:  Standard  (1,950 total armor pts)                       4,679.00
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                313
   Fore-Left/Right:                  331/331
   Aft-Left/Right:                   331/331
   Aft:                                 313

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (24) with 4 doors                                3,600.00
   Bay 2:  Small Craft (10) with 2 doors                             2,000.00
   Bay 3:  Cargo (1) with 8 doors                                   37,120.00

DropShip Capacity:  4 Docking Hardpoints                             4,000.00
Grav Decks #1 - 2:  (100-meter diameter)                               200.00
Life Boats:  60 (7 tons each)                                          420.00
Escape Pods:  40 (7 tons each)                                         280.00

Crew and Passengers:
     97 Officers (97 minimum)                                          970.00
    332 Crew (308 minimum)                                           2,324.00
    148 Gunners (148 minimum)                                        1,036.00
     98 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 NL55                     Nose        22     22     22     22  340  4,400.00
16 Killer Whale(160 msls)  Nose        64     64     64     64  320 10,400.00
4 Heavy NPPC               FL/R        60     60     60     60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC               FL/R        60     60     60     60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC               FL/R        60     60     60     60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC               FL/R        60     60     60     60 1800 24,000.00
4 NL55                     FL/R        22     22     22     22  680  8,800.00
4 Heavy NPPC               L/RBS       60     60     60     60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC               L/RBS       60     60     60     60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC               L/RBS       60     60     60     60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC               L/RBS       60     60     60     60 1800 24,000.00
4 NL55                     L/RBS       22     22     22     22  680  8,800.00
4 Heavy NPPC               AL/R        60     60     60     60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC               AL/R        60     60     60     60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC               AL/R        60     60     60     60 1800 24,000.00
4 Heavy NPPC               AL/R        60     60     60     60 1800 24,000.00
4 NL55                     AL/R        22     22     22     22  680  8,800.00
4 NL55                     Aft         22     22     22     22  340  4,400.00
4 NL55                     Aft         22     22     22     22  340  4,400.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                           Heat: 24,980   1,800,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        7,486,230,000 C-Bills
Battle Value:      262,892
Cost per BV:       28,476.45
Weapon Value:      155,473 (Ratio = .59)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 14,990;  MRV = 14,990;  LRV = 11,810;  ERV = 4,732
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 1,417,250
                   (252,750 Structure, 439,200 Life Support, 725,300 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 1,277,550  (90% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable
« Last Edit: 20 September 2018, 21:55:09 by Liam's Ghost »
Logged
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Alsadius

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 926
Re: Argyle class Battleship: As seen on Tri-V
« Reply #6 on: 21 September 2018, 07:28:46 »
I would watch the shit out of that series. Very, very cool concept.
Logged

Andras

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 827
Re: Argyle class Battleship: As seen on Tri-V
« Reply #7 on: 21 September 2018, 10:29:39 »
I've tried recreating both ships using the spreadsheet and both of them cost way more on the sheet then using your builder. Battlevalue is also off.

Pulsar summary
Code: [Select]
Class/Model/Name: Pulsar
Tech: Inner Sphere
Ship Cost: $16,689,000,004
Magazine Cost: $320,000
BV2: 209,638

Mass: 1,800,000
K-F Drive System: Compact
Power Plant: Maneuvering Drive
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
36 Naval Laser 55
96 Naval PPC Heavy
16 Capital Launcher Killer Whale

Equipment: Mass
Drive: 324,000.00
Thrust
Safe: 3
Maximum: 5
Controls: 4,500.00
K-F Hyperdrive: Compact (35 Integrity) 814,500.00
Jump Sail: (7 Integrity) 120.00
Structural Integrity: 130 234,000.00
Total Heat Sinks: 24980 Single 24,131.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps: 12750 points 5,202.00
Fire Control Computers: 0.00
Armor: 1950 pts Standard 4,680.00
Fore: 325
Fore-Left/Right: 325/325
Aft-Left/Right: 325/325
Aft: 325

Dropship Capacity: 4 4,000.00
Grav Decks:
Small: 2 100.00
Medium: 0.00
Large: 0.00
Escape Pods: 50 350.00
Life Boats: 50 350.00

Crew And Passengers:
93 Officers in 1st Class Quarters 930.00
312 Crew in 2nd Class Quarters 2,184.00
148 Gunners and Others in 2nd Class Quarters 1,036.00
182 Bay Personnel 0.00
3 1st Class Passengers 30.00
98 2nd Class Passengers 686.00
84 Steerage Passengers 420.00
That's with 3 platoons infantry added and it has 5000t more cargo.
Logged

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7913
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Argyle class Battleship: As seen on Tri-V
« Reply #8 on: 21 September 2018, 15:31:29 »
Quote from: Andras on 21 September 2018, 10:29:39
I've tried recreating both ships using the spreadsheet and both of them cost way more on the sheet then using your builder. Battlevalue is also off.

Yeah, heavy metal aero is pretty old and predates the most recent cost and battle value formulas.
Logged
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Leon Shirow

  • Private
  • *
  • Posts: 37
Re: Argyle class Battleship: As seen on Tri-V
« Reply #9 on: 21 September 2018, 19:40:19 »
Quote from: Andras on 21 September 2018, 10:29:39
I've tried recreating both ships using the spreadsheet and both of them cost way more on the sheet then using your builder. Battlevalue is also of

The main reason for the cost difference is HMAero does not include the K-F Drive Support Systems cost which was not in Aerotech 2, when I add that I get 16,686,230,000 C-Bills. HMAero also includes and doubles the cost of ammo.

I entered the Pulsar into MegaMekLab.

Code: [Select]
Pulsar Class Warship
Base Tech Level: Advanced (IS)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced      3145+
Standard        - 
Tech Rating: E/X-X-X-F

Weight: 1800000 tons
BV: 265,968
Cost: 16,679,890,000 C-bills

Movement: 3/5
Heat Sinks: 24000
Fuel Points: 12500 (5000.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 39.52

Structural Integrity: 130
Sail Integrity: 7
KF Drive Integrity: 35
Armor: 1950 (Capital Scale)
                  Armor 
-------------------------
Nose                313 
Left Front Side     331 
Right Front Side    331 
Aft                 313 
Aft Left Side       331 
Aft Right Side      331 

Weapons                                  Loc  Heat 
----------------------------------------------------
Capital Laser Bay                        NOS   340 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital Missile Bay                      NOS   320 
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Killer Whale Ammo                        160       
Capital Laser Bay                        FLS   340 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital PPC Bay                          FLS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          FLS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          FLS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          FLS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital Laser Bay                        FRS   340 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital PPC Bay                          FRS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          FRS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          FRS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          FRS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital Laser Bay                        AFT   680 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital Laser Bay                        ALS   340 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital PPC Bay                          ALS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          ALS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          ALS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          ALS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital Laser Bay                        ARS   340 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital PPC Bay                          ARS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          ARS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          ARS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          ARS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital Laser Bay                        LBS   340 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital PPC Bay                          LBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          LBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          LBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          LBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital Laser Bay                        RBS   340 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital PPC Bay                          RBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          RBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          RBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          RBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   



Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Aerospace Fighter (4 doors) - 24 units (8 recovery open)
Small Craft (2 doors) - 10 units (4 recovery open)
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Cargo Space (8 doors) - 37,119 tons

Crew                   
-----------------------
Officers             97
Enlisted/Non-rated  332
Gunners             148
Bay Personnel        98




The weights are pretty much the same as HMAero, HMAero rounded the armor up on .6 instead of down.

I'm not familiar with Aerospace BV but a quick look shows differences with armor and structure modifiers, unit type, speed factor, weapons and weapon arc calculations between Aerospace 2 and Strategic Operations. In fact I'm amazed that the BV between HMAero and MML came anywhere close to each other.

I cannot check MML cost calculations because it will not let me, it shows BV calculations instead ???

I tried to match the changes you made with the spreadsheet in MML, extra Heat Sinks, grav decks, fuel, troops and passengers.

Code: [Select]
Pulsar Class Warship
Base Tech Level: Advanced (IS)
Level          Era
-------------------
Experimental    - 
Advanced      3145+
Standard        - 
Tech Rating: E/X-X-X-F

Weight: 1800000 tons
BV: 265,968
Cost: 16,664,454,800 C-bills

Movement: 3/5
Heat Sinks: 24980
Fuel Points: 12500/12750 (5100.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 39.52

Structural Integrity: 130
Sail Integrity: 7
KF Drive Integrity: 35
Armor: 1950 (Capital Scale)
                  Armor 
-------------------------
Nose                325 
Left Front Side     325 
Right Front Side    325 
Aft                 325 
Aft Left Side       325 
Aft Right Side      325 

Weapons                                  Loc  Heat 
----------------------------------------------------
Capital Laser Bay                        NOS   340 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital Missile Bay                      NOS   320 
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Capital Missile Launcher (Killer Whale)             
Killer Whale Ammo                        160       
Capital Laser Bay                        FLS   340 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital PPC Bay                          FLS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          FLS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          FLS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          FLS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital Laser Bay                        FRS   340 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital PPC Bay                          FRS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          FRS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          FRS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          FRS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital Laser Bay                        AFT   680 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital Laser Bay                        ALS   340 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital PPC Bay                          ALS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          ALS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          ALS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          ALS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital Laser Bay                        ARS   340 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital PPC Bay                          ARS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          ARS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          ARS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          ARS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital Laser Bay                        LBS   340 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital PPC Bay                          LBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          LBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          LBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          LBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital Laser Bay                        RBS   340 
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Naval Laser 55                                     
Capital PPC Bay                          RBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          RBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          RBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Capital PPC Bay                          RBS   900 
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   
Naval PPC (Heavy)                                   



Carrying Capacity
-----------------
Aerospace Fighter (4 doors) - 24 units (8 recovery open)
Small Craft (2 doors) - 10 units (4 recovery open)
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Dropship - 1 units
Infantry Bay (2 doors) - 3.0 Foot platoons
Cargo Space (8 doors) - 35,166 tons

Crew                   
-----------------------
Officers             93
Enlisted/Non-rated  312
Gunners             148
Bay Personnel       182




The cost is still off but I cannot check that in MML and I'm not in the mood to check by hand calculations, I'm pretty sure that the Magazine cost should be 3,200,000 C-Bills though. Unless you only have 1 missile per launcher which would explain why you have extra tonnage :-\

As for BV, I did not notice any obvious errors with MML's calculations. It looks like the spreadsheet has not counted any weapons bays at 0.25 :-\

Logged

Andras

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 827
Re: Argyle class Battleship: As seen on Tri-V
« Reply #10 on: 22 September 2018, 08:27:11 »
Sigh. I did indeed have 16 missiles instead of 160. Mostly I was wondering why the costs were so much more.
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Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37340
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Argyle class Battleship: As seen on Tri-V
« Reply #11 on: 24 September 2018, 16:47:51 »
10 salvos of missiles seems a little light for a battleship...
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Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7913
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Argyle class Battleship: As seen on Tri-V
« Reply #12 on: 26 September 2018, 01:33:06 »
Quote from: Daryk on 24 September 2018, 16:47:51
10 salvos of missiles seems a little light for a battleship...

It's pretty typical for most canon battleships, actually. The exceptions appears to be limited to the Monsoon and the AR10 mounts on the Texas and McKenna, but even then, the Texas only carries ten missiles of each type (and only two types, white sharks and barracudas). The McKenna does even worse, It's only got enough missiles for five full salvoes of barracudas, and less than four for white sharks and killer whales.

I can only assume that the intention is to rely on only an initial barrage of missiles before going broadside to broadside, and then reload from the cargo bay after the battle. So I built along those lines.

(fun note, this "bare minimum" approach to missile loads is apparently standard with all the original TRO 3057 ships. We didn't start seeing ships with larger magazines until later, even if the ships themselves were canonically older.)
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Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37340
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: Argyle class Battleship: As seen on Tri-V
« Reply #13 on: 26 September 2018, 03:25:45 »
Makes sense!  :thumbsup:
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kindalas

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 463
Re: Argyle class Battleship: As seen on Tri-V
« Reply #14 on: 26 September 2018, 21:49:10 »
Quote from: Liam's Ghost on 26 September 2018, 01:33:06
It's pretty typical for most canon battleships, actually. The exceptions appears to be limited to the Monsoon and the AR10 mounts on the Texas and McKenna, but even then, the Texas only carries ten missiles of each type (and only two types, white sharks and barracudas). The McKenna does even worse, It's only got enough missiles for five full salvoes of barracudas, and less than four for white sharks and killer whales.

I can only assume that the intention is to rely on only an initial barrage of missiles before going broadside to broadside, and then reload from the cargo bay after the battle. So I built along those lines.

(fun note, this "bare minimum" approach to missile loads is apparently standard with all the original TRO 3057 ships. We didn't start seeing ships with larger magazines until later, even if the ships themselves were canonically older.)

I think that might be because of the battlespace rules that, if I recall correctly, assumed that massive cargo bays would just hold the ammo.
Logged

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7913
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Argyle class Battleship: As seen on Tri-V
« Reply #15 on: 26 September 2018, 23:21:11 »
It does come from the battlespace rules, but it's because those rules required a minimum of ten shots for each weapon in a bay, and the designers didn't see any reason to add more than that.

(technically, the current rules also require that, I suppose)
Logged
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!
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