AFFS High Command, Generals and Gentlemen

[Rorke]

Well it appeared that the old one, was not long for the world before it hit the limit.
I was also minded to take the initiative for once, even though I've been somewhat
dormant a long time.  It did strike me I'd never actually started one of these, and in
light of my serious time here it seemed fitting to do it the once. 

It's odd thinking back on all those we no longer see, on these boards.  Life happens
of course, I mean I've been resident in Finland now over eleven years.  That's downright
scary, where'd the time go?  But mainly i've thought today, about all those forum friends
and foes that are no longer active.  I can't help but miss Neko for example or Vash.  Or
some of our fellows in faction loyalty.  Those that encouraged us in the madcap debates,
that used to flow angrily up north.  I hope those folks are just busy, but well and happy.

Heck look at me drone on, I'm getting old and acting like it.  So it begins, hope you're all
good.  We're on the cusp of more stuff coming out, let's hope it plays out well for the FS.
I think we're long overdue a renaissance.

[Charlie 6]

Rorke,

Great time to start a new thread.  Before engaging on your topic I'd like to mention the last thread went from 31 December 2013, 21:02:02 to 29 May 2021, 16:35:25, which isn't a bad run.  I wonder if this thread will beat 7 years, 4 months, and 29 days.  I wonder what I'll be doing Halloween weekend in 2028.

On topic last topic, I don't begrudge anyone muting anyone else.  I would hope the decision is made with serious contemplation and I can understand it when it is.  I find there is a lack of empathy in most online discussions, often on both ends, because realizing the other person is done is a matter of body language and expression more so than any text can communicate.

On this topic, I'm sad that DoctorMonkey (Dan) has apparently moved on from Battletech.  I just looked at the first couple of pages of the last thread: Dan, fltadm, ShadowRaven, BrokenMnemonic, Davout73, and Mastergunz haven't been active between six years and six months or so.

I'm looking forward to getting my kids into Battletech, both have new miniatures, beyond the starter game they have played.  Besides, it has been a solid few years of Battletech/MechWarrior video games so things, as you said, ought to be picking up.

Best wishes to all.



 

[Rorke]

I'll have to poke Dan on Bookface at some point, he's a busy chap though so
likely that's some of it.

Seven years sheesh, we've collectively been slacking.

[David CGB]

ello all

[Arkansas Warrior]

Good day, gentlemen.  Here, have some Tequila.   It’s the Capellan March way.  I too miss many of the people who don’t post anymore, from our friends like 97jedi and 3CL (both of whom still pop up occasionally) or the Brians, to irascible foes like Rage or Vash, to others like JediBear or Albattoss (who has, alas, shuffled off this mortal coil).

[Doc Swift]

I haven't gone by 97jedi since I nuked that account. But I'm still here.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Right.  But not nearly so much as you used to be.

[Rorke]

Well I think all of us, post a lot less than we used to.

Me, right now seem to be a touch more active.  But I can't guarantee it'll last.

[Doc Swift]

Generals and Gentlemen. Hmmm... Genterals?

[Rorke]

Generals and Gentlemen. Hmmm... Genterals?

Sounds too close to a g word, best not mentioned :p

[Lord Harlock]

Generals and Gentlemen. Hmmm... Genterals?

You are better than that punnery.

We're on the cusp of more stuff coming out, let's hope it plays out well for the FS.
I think we're long overdue a renaissance.

Part of the problem with the Jihad and Republic Eras is that it kind of was low key and laborious. Either stuff blew up in nuclear explosion or small units that didn't add to the lore were involved. Plus, the mystery boxes of Devlin Stone and Conspirators of Black Monday probably went too long, and the final conclusions didn't help matters either.

Part of the problem with all of the Dark Age and Jihad are in a sense that everything revolves around the Republic of the Sphere or its creation, and if the reader never felt a connection with the Republic, it's end kind of felt like meh. Hell, it had me cheering on a Clan, and I hate Clans. But if their opponent is the Republic, Old Nick's descendants are angels in comparison to me. 

But both storyline just went too long, the Twilight of the Clans line lasted two years from 1997 to 1999 which lead to the FedCom Civil War era and line, and MWDA and the Jihad ran in some form or another for nineteen years. It really is storyline fatigue. And from what I've learned as an author( even though no one buys my stuff and I have more stuff just sitting on my hard drive) is stretching storylines really too much results in fatigue and frustration for readers. We probably lost more people to just boredom than anything drama reality.

So I hope that you are right, Lord Rorke. I hope the Suns survives as a nation with a Davion on New Avalon and actually gets a win that isn't poisoned immediately with Hanse's Grandson showing up to destroy the Suns once and for all for the Clan League. If the Suns survives without a Clan Overlord and as a nation, I'd probably be excited for the first time in a long time for Battletech if all of my pessimism about the Suns' future turns out to be just the vapors of an overactive imagination. 

It would be nice.

 

[Doc Swift]

Sounds too close to a g word, best not mentioned :p

 ;)

[Rorke]

Well I think Harlock old chap, you've hit upon a problem many of us had with
the DA era.  I never really cared about the Rots, sure they were good enough
to ally with us when Julian needed them.  But the whole Stone Kool Aid
disarmament thing, set up this entire era and its messes.  I'll perhaps never
be able to forgive such a nonsensical turn of events.  Massive horrific war,
we'll just disarm despite the two large historic enemies we border......duh

Anymore than I can ever really think kindly, on the Falcons or Wolves and their
astonishing ability to weather everything that happens.....and bounce back
stronger than anything else.  It's not genetic that, it's hideous authorial fiat
and frankly it's beyond dull.  The pair of them, need a slapping back down
to periphery brigandry.

The Sharks, Bears and to some degree Ravens at least are interesting.  They're
integrated into the IS, they've changed and become more than dull stereotypes.
Which to my jaundiced eyes, the Wolves and Budgies totally embody.

Oh and I'll hope you all forgive the rant, sometimes even I must set aside
gentlemanly pragmatism.  You know just actually rant a wee bit.  Clan Overlord
on New Avalon.  I think ultimately if this universe ever gets to that sort of
thing, the degree of fanbase alienation would be severe.  Nobody wants to see
their favourite factions, be little more than puppets to one dimensional conquerors.

[Charlie 6]

Part of the problem with the Jihad and Republic Eras is that it kind of was low key and laborious.

...just sayin'

[Rorke]

I think part of the whole "laborious" might be the sheer time, it's taken to get to
this point. 

[Lord Harlock]

I think part of the whole "laborious" might be the sheer time, it's taken to get to
this point.

Considering between 1986 and 2002 (a span of 16 years), we moved from 3025 to late 3067(42 year span), and I’d argue that we knew most of the character motivations and saw some growth in most that survived. And yes, there was growth in characters like Victor who learned lessons like his cousin Frederick Steiner.

However, it’s hard for me to really see any real character growth in say Lady Janelle Lakewood. She was ProRepublic at the beginning, and she might have been a bit jaded by the end but she was essentially Pro-Republic at the end. Did she at anytime during Fortress Republic think of marrying Mason and having kids during that fourteen year period of the wall? Nope which is a shame since if the wall fell, the Republic would needed soldiers for a long fight across multiple fronts. Did she do anything? Not that we are told.

In the end, we didn’t see any real growth in characters, and most remained static. I would argue that some of Padroe’s characters like the Curios and what Killony did with Nikoi Marik in his Free Worlds League duology worked. However, it just become one long story of Wolves and Falcons waiting to get Terra while everyone fell over dumbly letting it happen.

And never get me started on Archon Melissa Steiner the II aka the Dumb One.

Ugh.

Also, so many things which didn’t ultimately lead to anything like the possible Blood Spirit from Blood Avatar or Harrison’s spymaster knowing about Caleb’s madness and disappearing from Terra to never reappear. Story seeds were planted, but nothing really connected in the end.

MWDA just was a roller coaster that got to the top of the first hill, and then somehow slowly came down a 420 foot drop only to rocket suddenly at the 30 feet above the ground to take a turn back into the station.

[Arkansas Warrior]

The complete absence of Mason Dunne post-Ghost War, and especially in the last couple of books where Janella features prominently, is just one of many loose ends that really annoyed me.  Where’d he go?  Did they break up?  Did he die on a mission?  Did he retire to a cottage in the country where he can be a househusband and raise their kids?  Why is he never mentioned again?

[Rorke]

The complete absence of Mason Dunne post-Ghost War, and especially in the last couple of books where Janella features prominently, is just one of many loose ends that really annoyed me.  Where’d he go?  Did they break up?  Did he die on a mission?  Did he retire to a cottage in the country where he can be a househusband and raise their kids?  Why is he never mentioned again?

I thought the whole early Dunne and Lakewood stuff, was interesting as hell.  I think you're right to
question his disappearing.  I'm not going to speculate on why, primarily because I've not kept up on
the fiction.  Which does feel almost heretical, considering how keen I was to do so in earlier years.

[Decoy]

Mason makes a couple of appearances post Ghost War. One as "Sam Donnelly" in one of the Wizkid Articles and recently he's appeared in Shrapnel #4, I think. Mason is rather displeased to be separated from Janella. Given the wordcount the unit he's in gets, that'll have to do for him, unless someone picks up his story.

As far as fiction goes,  buy only the stories you want to read. If the MGMT doesn't provide the stories you want to buy, that's on them. They should know their market.

[Lord Harlock]

I thought the whole early Dunne and Lakewood stuff, was interesting as hell.  I think you're right to
question his disappearing.  I'm not going to speculate on why, primarily because I've not kept up on
the fiction.  Which does feel almost heretical, considering how keen I was to do so in earlier years.

It was only in the last two years anything really happened in fiction. As for Mason, I figure that since Stackpole created him that there was some sort of bias against him or that Mason can't have events happen to him due to a contractual obligation unless approved by Mike Stackpole. Mason despite his connection to the Cult of Stone was a good sort, and I enjoyed his character. He should have made more appearances other than Ghost Wars in the early days and the aftermath of the death of Victor. However nothing. But no worries, we got at least three novels that were exactly the same in A Call to Arms, Ruins of Power, and Patriot Stand. Ugh. There were a lot of missteps in MWDA at the beginning that hampered everything that followed.

[Doc Swift]

Right.  But not nearly so much as you used to be.

That's true. Lots going on these days. Writing, developing, and editing for BT, plus writing my second Warpiper novel (which I hope to get out late this summer).

[ArkRoyalRavager]

It was only in the last two years anything really happened in fiction. As for Mason, I figure that since Stackpole created him that there was some sort of bias against him or that Mason can't have events happen to him due to a contractual obligation unless approved by Mike Stackpole. Mason despite his connection to the Cult of Stone was a good sort, and I enjoyed his character. He should have made more appearances other than Ghost Wars in the early days and the aftermath of the death of Victor. However nothing. But no worries, we got at least three novels that were exactly the same in A Call to Arms, Ruins of Power, and Patriot Stand. Ugh. There were a lot of missteps in MWDA at the beginning that hampered everything that followed.

I actually enjoyed A Call to Arms and Patriot's Stand, though considering the timeskip and the direction of things, it's sad that the plot of those novels ended up meaningless.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Good news: The Federated Suns rebuilt Kallon's Talon complex on Wernke. Those are some really valuable factories.

[Lord Harlock]

Good news: The Federated Suns rebuilt Kallon's Talon complex on Wernke. Those are some really valuable factories.

Thankfully the Blackwind Lancers were not raised again after the Jihad.

[Rorke]

Thankfully the Blackwind Lancers were not raised again after the Jihad.

The Cappies remain lucky, that we did not stoop to that sort of level ourselves.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Thankfully the Blackwind Lancers were not raised again after the Jihad.

Unlike them, I wonder what happened to Borodin's Vindicators.

The Cappies remain lucky, that we did not stoop to that sort of level ourselves.

Totally agreed. Time to reclaim our lost territories once they get embroiled with the Wolves.

[Lord Harlock]

The Cappies remain lucky, that we did not stoop to that sort of level ourselves.

Considering how the 5th FedCom and Atomic Annie was treated by the rest of the AFFC and AFFS, nuclear annihilation is not the way of the Armed Forces of the Federated Suns. Though it would have probably helped at Galax in 3069 to have nuclear warheads on ready to hit that Blakest Flotilla that basically destroyed the shipyard and the world.

Unlike them, I wonder what happened to Borodin's Vindicators.

Totally agreed. Time to reclaim our lost territories once they get embroiled with the Wolves.

The Vindicators were last listed on New Syrtis in 3070 in the Blakest Document. I'd imagine that during the siege there that they were destroyed.

As for lost territory, the most important thing is retaking New Avalon.

[Rorke]

Everything hinges on New Avalon, it's not about the world or it's people.  It's not
about the industry (assuming we find any left), it's purely a symbol.  By retaking it, we
show the the people of the FS and the other powers the most important thing.  That
as a nation the Federated Suns, might bow sometimes but it will not break.

The images of the desecration of that world, will be worth regiments.  The anger of the
people, will only bolster resolve further.  The rebuilding of that world, will show that
we're always looking to make a better tomorrow.  We'll rebuild, retake and avenge what
has been lost.  But we'll do so by embodying the freedoms that define the Fed Suns, not
by torture, propaganda or murder.  By being better, being human and being ourselves.

I expect some sort of massively Churchillian monologue from Julian, when NA is retaken. 
If I can throw out the second paragraph of this, off the cuff in 2 minutes I expect a full
on work of outright defiance, hope and intent.  Anything wishy washy, I'll be genuinely
disappointed.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Without the Dragoons, liberating New Avalon is a question of how much damage it sustains at the end of the liberation.

Economically, the Suns has the biggest mobilization potential for both military and production and are no slouches in industrial output. Both aspects would be on overdrive since 3132, it was simply a matter of catching up to Liao and Kurita's decades-long head starts. A potential Terran showdown between Liao and Kurita working unccordinated against the Clans means the AFFS will have a lot of breathing room to counterattack on both fronts.

Between 3145-3151(post-HOTW), the Suns' industrial potential should have allowed replenishment of existing units and reactivation of at least a few units aside from the Davion Irregulars. These units should take advantage of Clan moves to press against Liao and Kurita.

[Sharpnel]

Between 3145 and 3151, Davion Military Industry should be half what it was in 3144 as a huge chunk of their factories are now in Capellan or Kuritan hands. The AFFS has been gutted by the Palmyra Disaster and constant fighting a war on two fronts. Anything they could have replaced, they likely have already lost a good chunk of it. What saves them from here on out is that the Capellans have now diverted their energies towards Terra and Reconquista of lost worlds rather than the further integration of captured Davion worlds and any further conquests.