locking units in place?

[skoll]

Is it possible to lock an opponent's unit in place if you lost initiative as you move first? While I realize this would physically require 3 mechs I just want to know if it is even possible, as I can foresee situations where it might be useful to get 3 lights locking down an assault.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Absolutely.  You can't move through a hex with a hostile unit.  If you surround a unit that hasn't moved yet and block off all legal moves.. it's stuck!

However you can jump over (or into!) a hostile unit's hex, so pinning down a jump-capable unit is not viable.

[Sartris]

Of course pinning your opponent down often involves making suboptimal moves which leaves your blocking units just as vulnerable. Make those shots count

[Colt Ward]

Yes, or you can also foul up their 'run lanes' which will force them into sub-optimal moves while you have a better one- for instance a 5/8 mech moving to the point where its 3 or 4 hexes in front of a opponent mech that also moves 5/8.  If its wanting to move forward then its going to waste 2 movement points to cover the turns, which limits it to moving only 6 hexes for the +2.  If you have flankers its going to want to move straight ahead to keep you from firing into its rear . . . or it will back up.

BA used to be great for this, but TW changed the rules to allow mechs & armor to run through infantry . . . so you are left to your cavalry light hovertanks to get in there and block movement.

[Weirdo]

As I understand, Protomechs are really good at this. :)

Bit of advice: Units can't move through enemy hexes, but they can move into them, provided stacking isn't violated. So using non-mech units as blockers will still likely result in the target being able to move a single hex, unless you use a LOT of blockers.

[Kojak]

As I understand, Protomechs are really good at this. :)

ProtoMechs are incredible for this. Especially against non-jumping 'Mechs and tanks, ProtoMechs can be downright evil if you don't care too much about losing them. Here's a good primer.

[mbear]

I can see it now: Six Spiders jump in and surround a Warhammer, kicking it to death.

[Ruger]

I can see it now: Six Spiders jump in and surround a Warhammer, kicking it to death.

Think I would go punches instead.

Ruger

[Weirdo]

I can see it now: Six Spiders jump in and surround a Warhammer, kicking it to death.

That's my wife's preferred battle strategy. Except with Locusts instead of Spiders. 2-3 instead of six. And instead of Warhammers, Archangels.

[Easy]

cleanup

[RoundTop]

So you would need to move 6 units before you opponent moved one.

Unlike the PC game, lights don't move first, so after the first one lands, the warhammer could move away... say 3 hexes away from it, and light it up with PPC fire.

But assuming it stood there, the warhammer could kick and take off the spider's leg and most of the torso. In return, 6 spiders would give you 12 chances to hit. Assuming they jumped, and have pilot 5, and the warhammer is in open terrain and hasn't moved (best case scenario), that would be 5+3=8 for their TN, which is a 40% success rate.  So out of 12 attempts, 5 would hit (approx).  Of those 5 3-point hits, only 1/6 would hit the head, so 80% chance that they would hit the head once. It would be 15 points of damage total, spread around the mech. Not even enough to make for a PSR.

The warhammer kicks needing a 5+0 (he didn't move)+4 (max spider jump)-2 (kick) = 7, so 60% chance of hitting the spider with a kick, and crippling one.

Now if those spiders kicked... that would be 6 attempts needing 6's, which is an approx 75% success rate, so say 5 of them hit, doing 5 damage each, so 25 damage total, spread between the legs. This would force 6 PSR rolls (5 for kicks +1 for more than 20 points of damage, needing 6's.  By odds, the warhammer will fail one of them and take more damage.

[Colt Ward]

Which is why Protos are great for this since you move 5 in one movement phase.  Since most people move their big gun mechs later in their turn, this is one way to take advantage of that tendency- especially if you lose initiative.  If you had the speedsters and felt they were disposable you should be able to get in at least two blocks before it starts influencing their planning.  And if you do not place them directly in front, say a hex or two in away, it will start influencing their play.

[Sartris]

It’s a fairly rare occurrence to be sure. Often you are leveraging terrain like a level 2 ridge or the edge of the map and used as a strategy of opportunity rather than forcing it.

[Easy]

cleanup

[Ruger]

So you would need to move 6 units before you opponent moved one.

Unlike the PC game, lights don't move first, so after the first one lands, the warhammer could move away... say 3 hexes away from it, and light it up with PPC fire.

But assuming it stood there, the warhammer could kick and take off the spider's leg and most of the torso. In return, 6 spiders would give you 12 chances to hit. Assuming they jumped, and have pilot 5, and the warhammer is in open terrain and hasn't moved (best case scenario), that would be 5+3=8 for their TN, which is a 40% success rate.  So out of 12 attempts, 5 would hit (approx).  Of those 5 3-point hits, only 1/6 would hit the head, so 80% chance that they would hit the head once. It would be 15 points of damage total, spread around the mech. Not even enough to make for a PSR.

The warhammer kicks needing a 5+0 (he didn't move)+4 (max spider jump)-2 (kick) = 7, so 60% chance of hitting the spider with a kick, and crippling one.

Now if those spiders kicked... that would be 6 attempts needing 6's, which is an approx 75% success rate, so say 5 of them hit, doing 5 damage each, so 25 damage total, spread between the legs. This would force 6 PSR rolls (5 for kicks +1 for more than 20 points of damage, needing 6's.  By odds, the warhammer will fail one of them and take more damage.

Don't forget the two medium lasers per Spider...being in the CT, they won't interfere with punches and add to the damage...

I'll repeat myself by mentioning that one of the reasons I love the Spider so much is that I played one in a 3025 once, and in one combat, I managed to run behind a Wolverine and land two punches and a medium laser to the head in one turn, resulting in a headless Wolverine that was otherwise pristine...

Ruger

[RoundTop]

Oh I love the spider, and the venom.  As backstabbers and gummy bears (Bouncing here and there any everywhere) they rock, and for that, let the punches fly.  But as a roadblock unit... not so much.

Now if we add in terrain.... a city with a one hex wide street you can block a wolverine with 2 urbanmechs (play leapfrog to put the hammer into the lockdown), and they can take a couple hits, plus dish it out with their AC10s/slas before kicking.

[Col Toda]

In the old FASA days all vehicles automatically lost initiative and had to move first . When one of the early playtesters for the writer's hemmed in mechs using Savannah Masters they changed the rules to have motor crits instead of initiative loss Just for that reason so Now the best you can hope for is to have a lot more cheap hover tanks in the mix so you can move 2 for his one.  So it is very difficult to do now on purpose . Now the best you can do is if you are a defender prepare the ground for you not the enemy . Command or normal 30 pt mines on hills.  Tunnels through hills with roads for combat vehicles that are nt high enoungh for mechs . Use Hovertanks on a battlefield with hull down positions 7 hexes apart so 12 move points can get from one postion to the next . 7 move +3 and hull down +2 and get extra protection for motar critical.  Icing down part of the map so enemy units are going over level 0 ice reducing all but the best pilots to half walking speed or risk falling down .  That and on board Artillary or even 1 turn delay off board Artillary makes a huge impact . Hemming in units on the offensive is much harder but Fascam LRM launched mine fields work somewhat .

[Elmoth]

Hmm... If I send a recon plane and see that, I guess I will just load my guys on their dropships and jump a little farther to get over that defensive position...

[Weirdo]

In the old FASA days all vehicles automatically lost initiative and had to move first.

How old? I don't ever remember that being a thing, and I started a few years before Master Rules.

[Sartris]

How old? I don't ever remember that being a thing, and I started a few years before Master Rules.

It's not in BattleDroids, CityTech or the BattleTech Manual as far as I can tell

[Colt Ward]

. . . So it is very difficult to do now on purpose . Now the best you can do is if you are a defender prepare the ground for you not the enemy . . .

No . . . it just requires planning and catching the opponent off guard.  As stated, Protomechs are great for isolating a single mech- click the link, it actually has diagrams to explain.  Even if you do not block it in on all 6 sides, still blocking movement routes can be beneficial- like I said making their movement drop down from +3 to +2 which makes it easier to hit.  Or it can help delay a mech from reaching a objective as quickly as your opponent wishes.

[Easy]

cleanup

[Firesprocket]

In the old FASA days all vehicles automatically lost initiative and had to move first .

How old? I don't ever remember that being a thing, and I started a few years before Master Rules.

I'd have to dig it out to be certain, but I believe it was in the Tactical Handbook.  So it would have been part of the advanced rule set rather than anything laid as standard in the compendium or BMR.

[Sartris]

THB Pg 44 - It makes it so vehicles have to move as lances while mechs still move as individual units. It doesn't alter the turn order.

[Col Toda]

Thats the problem with a game decades long . And playing with some of the writers . At this remove I not sure I was play testing something that never got past editing or I am remembering a fight in which the side that lost the initiative moved 3 lances of Savannah Masters in while the opponant only moved 1 or 2 units depending on unit count on both sides . It still amounts to having 2 enemy units fully surrounded or 4 with the front hexes blocked . Still it all lead to motor crits to vehicles come Maximum Tech book I think as the game strived to keep mechs the king of the battlefield . The current rules are far far better.  Particularly the changes in partial cover and Anti Missile Systems .

As for the original topic at hand : hemming opponants with missile launched minefields munitions still seems the best choice nowadays for that .  However a well armored opponant may just take there chances . This is a tactic I have limited experience with as prefer any mines I have planted before and not during combat so if someone who used this tactic a lot please weigh in . I have been on the recieving end of such and just took my chances most times going through the mined hex.  I do not field LRM 20s because of endurance issues so I never used this method ever. 

[Firesprocket]

It is entirely situational.  If you are looking to absolutely make certain they have nowhere to go you either have to dedicate a large amount of launchers or use thunder augmented.  In the game groups I play in regularly augmented are banned.

Ultimately the bigger your minefield is the better chance it will do damage.  Getting those 15 and 20 point fields up with augmented is easy, but ammo consuming.  Upward of 6 launchers to dedicate is expensive, but not entirely unreasonable.

[Colt Ward]

Which is why I love LRM Carriers as T-Aug launchers.  With three launchers per carrier . . . you just need some infantry or BA to spot where you want them to fall, a single launcher will be able to make anyone reconsider moving out the front arc.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Flatbed Trucks from TRO 3060 are another great blocking unit.  Low BV so you can use lots of them, 5/8 speed so they can get where you need them, and they're built using combat vehicle rules, so they don't suffer support vehicle vulnerabilities.  There's an uparmored variant to inflict extra frustration on opponents.