BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Player Boards => Fan Articles => Topic started by: ItsTehPope on 25 August 2012, 23:38:47
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Originally the article was supposed to be about the Eyleuka, which per the spellchecker in Google Docs, is actually correct despite the fact that the spelling was done by letting my dog roll his face upon the keyboard. Also, the edit check for this week was right before I hit post. Something about post con plague combined with an ear infection made giggles a very fun person to be around this week.
I write better when the ‘Mech is total crap, which the aforementioned is not, so I decided to write something that is more amusing than factual.
Awesome. Catapult. Trebuchet. Dragon. Archer. Atlas. These are powerful, evocing names for ‘Mechs, with good references to what the design does, or the visual aesthetic it goes for. The Assassin was named for the power socket that someone on the design team someone decided to test with a fork.
Per the fluff of 3025, Maltex, had pitched the design as a replacement for the Wasp and Stinger (Reasonable goals that) It managed to accomplish this through many classic military sales pitches throughout history. Overinflated performance stats, fuzzy math that would make Quikscell standards compliant and a arseload of bribery. After production was approved (Mostly I suspect as a method to make Maltex go away) a few hundred were produced before the two factories were pretty much given a work stoppage due to poor quality control. Somehow, it proved popular with the SLDF Militia and FWLM forces as a reconnaissance ‘Mech, which is fair, and a light ‘Mech hunter-killer, which I presume means “Killing bugs”, because with an armor spread pretty close to that of a Commando and a very anemic firepower loadout. Of note, if you’re a larger Mechwarrior, this is the ride to hate. The whole corner cutting process noted above means that the cockpit is made like crap. Apparently even after 400 years they still can’t lumbar support in the drivers seat, as the entry makes pains to mention bad backs. It also mentions that the SRM2 feed suffers from issues with failure under high heat situations that will require a complete mechanical rebuild of the launcher assembly. Due to this, Maltex strongly suggests not swimming in magma for extended periods of time.
Speed wise, this thing is quite swift, with a VOX280 hustling this thing along with a 7/11/7 spread, and the jets located in the torsos. This engine is guaranteed through Vox, and Maltex should not be contacted in regards to any odd radiation issues.
Looking at the armor load, we have something that will make a Hussar pilot comfortable in his skin. 4.5 tons, spread across with 8 on the head, 12/4 split on the center torso, sides with 10/2 arms with 6 and legs with 10, so a little over 60% if my napkin math is correct. I realize you’re generally fast enough to avoid being hit in the back, but if you do, torso hits are probably almost certainly going internal. If you fall and get that 4 on the direction chart, locations 6 and 8 are going internal no matter what. Also, that's where the ammo is stored as well. Maltex strongly suggests not falling on sharp rocks for safety reasons.
Moving onto the primary version featured in the holy tome/telephone book of 3039, the weapons loadout. If you’re accustomed to driving a 1A Wasp, you’ll feel right at home! The right arm features everyone’s favorite weapon, the medium laster while a SRM2 is in the left torso. Wasp pilots are reminded that it can be fired when you plan on kicking someone! In the right torso you have an LRM5, which I presume is there so you have something to do/make yourself feel better when you’re inexorably closing with someone. The weapons loadout is generally pretty schizo, but your best bet is to try to get behind someone with your SRM and ML and poke people in the rear and hope they aren’t too terribly offended and bring the firepower they have to bear on you, as you will probably be down a limb or two after this.
Also mentioned in 3039 is the -101 model, which shaves off an already low half ton of armor, and two jump jets, one mounted in the head and one in each leg. Maltex would like to say that this is not a factory legal configuration and they are not liable for anything that happens to these machines.
Moving along to the 3050’s upgrades, where the design becomes from a combat perspective, even more baffling. Hellspont produces this one, where they remove the cranky SRM2 rack and its associated ammo, and replace it with adding an Artemis pod for the LRM5 and swapping the medium laser for its pulse cousin. The best way to use this ‘I think Hellspont was bucking for some capital money to start designing on the Sha Yu and Men Shen myself, but that’s a different story. Hellespont Industries would like to remind the citizenry that the -23 is a superior machine to the trash that was manufactured by House Davion and you would do well to remember it.
Moving on to the model 30 produced by Defiance of Hesperus swaps out the VOX 280 for a Light engine of the same rating. The structure has also been changed out, now being an Endo-Steel composite, advertised as same strength, half the calories! Two more toms of armor were added to bring it to a very respectable 6.5 tons, and the heatsinks were changed out to doubles. The medium laser from the 21 is now a ER Medium. The eclectic mix of missile weaponry is now even more bizarre, an LBX-5, being fed by a single ton of ammo, presumably cluster rounds. Using this against a ‘mech isn't a great idea...smart users will either go crit out some tanks at distance, or use that birdgun to swat down things flying overhead. BattleMechs should generally be ignored unless you need to critseek them. Defiance Corporation is not responsible for your ego when you fail to annoy anything more heavily armored than a Hussar in one shot.
Model 99 is probably the best of the bunch, but we’re setting a low bar here. Manufactured by Hellespont out of Sian, it uses an XL engine to free up scads of tonnage, the armor is brought up to about 95% overall. It’ll pass the smartplacement test for what its worth. The armor, of note is Stealth, and has the requisite Guardian ECM unit. The laser in the right arm has been replaced with a Light PPC, thus giving it some long range punch at a reasonable tonnage cost. An SRM2 is mounted in each side torso with the ammo (UnCASED though) in the left torso, but it is well crit-packed at least. In the left arm, giving those of us with feelings of what can be described as “Stabbity” something to do in dark alleys and 7-11’s. Its only a 5 point sword, but its the thought that counts. Using this one is easy. LPPC until you can safely get in range, add SRM’s to suit, stab when you can. Hellespont is not responsible for your ego being deflated when someone reminds you a 3025 Shadow Hawk still puts out more damage than you do using tech from 3067.
Servitor was driven by some random mad butler in the FCCW based on the name. It is a unique variant that served as the base for the 99. The twin SRM’s are still there, but the light PPC is now a Medium X-Pulse laser, with a pair of Small X-Pulses in the leg. The sword is replaced by a small Vibroblade. It plays very similar to the 99, but even more in close and backstabby
So there you have it. The Assassin. A ‘Mech that isn’t very assassinney. Unless its to your ego...
Now I'm going to sleep for three days.
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the Assassin is an invaluable design. it's a perfectly armed and highly design to supplement any lyran force in need of battlearmor and a perfect design to substitute for salvage that mercs may wish to claim so long as you can ensure said salvage is offworld by the time they figure it out.
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It is a shame that they haven't done an MML version yet, because that might actually be, you know... good.
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Poor Assassin. Its not a very lovable Mech.
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In a 3025 setting, the Assassin is a durned good 'Mech and a strong contender for the "most undervalued ever" award.
Consider the Spider. Everyone seems to like that, as it's one of only 3 'Mechs in the setting able to jump for a +4 movement modifier. It only has 2 ML and 3.5 tons armour, but who cares, it's a light. The Ostscout is 5 tons heavier, but has identical loadout, swapping 1 ML for another ton of armour.
Is it by virtue of it being a low-end medium that the Assassin is forgotten in that match-up? Or because it's only 7/11/7 rather than 8/12/8, despite that being the much more economical choice in the absence of XL engines?
The Assassin has better armour than the Spider, similar close-range weaponry, and an added LRM-5. In my books, it is the best ultra-mobile harrasser anyone could choose in the 3025 setting.
(The 101 is an incredible dud on account of undoing the very things that made the Assassin respectable to me. Sadly, if you look closely, it is this very version that is the intro box cast...)
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It helps me to say one phrase before debating certain Star League 'mechs and that is "Sovietski Soyuz"
The Star League didn't need to worry so much about cost and we shouldn't think in metagame terms about Battle Value or efficiency when judging the Star League Quarter Master's Command.
Take the recently discussed Cicada for example. Unless you can find a way to hold the 40 ton weight against it in universe, then 'mechs like the Cicada and Assassin are no brainers for the Star League.
With the Assassin, I see a 'mech that can draw against the massive 280 rating engine stores built up by the League and the sub states that is a pretty good light hunter, as Jymset pointed out. Plop them into Infantry Support Mech Battalions and ask if there are goodies given for every regiment bought.
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Actually I find the Assassin to be a very useful 'Mech. Usually after being rebuilt a bit. I will note that there may be one more Assassin variant out there, but I'm not completely sure about the canonicity of the Unique Mech compilation from 2006...
Oh, and don't bad mouth the -101 too much. My friend has killed Dire Wolves with them. Without losing his 'Mech.
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One of my problems with the Assassinis that it doesn't live up to it's name. There is no one-shot/one-kill like the name infers. The ASN-30 was a step in the right direction. However they shold have put an ER PPC on it instead of the LB 5-X. Use the saved weight to add DHS or Armor and you are golden.
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The stock ASN-21 is nicely mobile in general, but underarmored at only 53% of the theoretical maximum (most notably, its leg protection rather sucks for a design that relies so much on being able to bounce around the battlefield at will), and then it wastes precious tonnage on carrying mixed launchers in a misguided attempt to be an all-range generalist. It could be improved almost immediately by simply picking the range it wants to fight at -- either long or short --, equipping itself accordingly, and then sticking to its guns...
The 101 doesn't really merit much in the way of discussion. If the Assassin has one saving grace it's its mobility, and reducing that by cutting out jump jets in order to install of all things small lasers (which don't even help you until you get into knife-fighting range, a goal which the two missing jets just so happen to make that much harder to achieve) is just blatantly shooting yourself in the foot.
The 23 is...well, basically a 21 that fell into the hands of some foundtech enthusiasts, and as such things go got off reasonably lightly. It's not really an improvement, but at the same time I also wouldn't call it significantly worse than the original. Just a bit different in the details.
The 30 finally gets a much overdue armor upgrade and longer-ranged medium laser. However, I'm scratching my head as much as the next guy at the autocannon; what's this model trying to be, a mobile quick-response light AA 'Mech? That's about the only explanation that makes even a bit sense to me right now...
The 99 so far looks like the best of the bunch, although I'll admit to not having used it yet. Mostly because the current MegaMek stats for the design seem to be in error in several places at once...excuse me while I file a bug report.
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Perhaps the best Assassin is the one from Unique Mechs. The ride of Alice Humpterderby ::) of the 26th Lyran Guards, it is a variation on the ASN-30. The LB-5X is gone, replaced by 3 more ER Medium Lasers (the article notes both they and the original ERML were all from the same Free Worlds League factory (Yes, it's a running gag :)) )), a Beagle Active Probe, a Guardian ECM, a C3 Slave, a 1 ton Targeting Computer salvaged from a destroyed 4th Davion Guards Javelin, and more armor. The result is one heck of a scout: It can find hidden units, disrupt advanced electronics, and carries a decent, accurate punch. It would work especially well as a C3 spotter, since its high speed and jump capability make it very hard to bring down. In keeping with Pope's closing remarks for each variant, Ms. Humpterderby asks that readers remember that wisecracks about her name are subject to the Lyran state's strict anti-slander laws. She goes on to note that wisecracks against her mech will be dealt with on the battlefield.
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I agree that the Assassin's real problem is being misleadingly named. When interpreted as a replacement for Wasps and Stingers, as originally pitched, the Assassin can run faster, jump further, shoot farther, and has better armor. It's also the only 3025 'Mech that moves 7/11 or faster that has a weapon with a longer than 9 hex range (discounting the downgraded Hussar.) Not that an LRM-5 is going to win any wars, but at least it's something.
Interestingly, this same sort of "attack, not recon" mentality seems to have infected designers in-universe; the -99 only has an ECM for its Stealth armor, and only the aforementioned Assassin Alice carries a full recon loadout.
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I love the Assassin, I really do, and I will continue to love it. But that article was awesome. I will have to pay more attention to these in the future. :D
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One of my problems with the Assassinis that it doesn't live up to it's name. There is no one-shot/one-kill like the name infers. The ASN-30 was a step in the right direction. However they shold have put an ER PPC on it instead of the LB 5-X. Use the saved weight to add DHS or Armor and you are golden.
While I agree with you that it would be an improvement, it also makes it a fast-moving ER PPC carrier, just like so many others out there (Stealth, Legionnaire, Jackal, Pack Hunter, Dragonfly B, etc). But an LB-5X? No one else really does that (for good reason, mind you).
Not every Mech is supposed to be good. And the Assassin has a long and proud history of proving that in every configuration. Why start being decent now?
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A fan solely for its looks. I'll try out the stealth Assassin with the sword sometime, but not in a rush for it, either.
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I use Assassins in my rear area raiding party lances in campaigns where their superior mobility and mix of firepower enables them to throw defenders off balance. As a general rule, anything that can keep up with its mobility will lose in a straight up fight against it in the 3025 era. Sure they do not have stunning firepower, but they are quite annoying to convoy, artillery and command vehicle defenders. They are very frustrating to deal with once they reach your rear areas.
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One thing to point out is that the Assassin -99 does also mount a TAG system. Suddenly you have a 7/11/7 Stealth unit spotting for all that freaking Arrow IV the Cappies love so muc.
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It's also the only 3025 'Mech that moves 7/11 or faster that has a weapon with a longer than 9 hex range (discounting the downgraded Hussar.)
Did you miss Cicada article? It has got variant with PPC. Good ride that.
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To be honest, anyone who uses a stock Assassin to backstab an enemy mech is using it wrong - it shouldn't be there in the first place!
Now in the standard "a few map sheets shoot-em-up" game I agree it's not much of a mech, it would serve far better as a fast backstabber dropping all the missiles for more MLs and armor. But load the SRM with infernos and go rampaging through the backfield (way backfield!) instead - as noted the only mechs guaranteed to catch it are the Spider and Ostscout, neither of which will really appreciate a close encounter! The LRM5 is great for putting some holes in a convoy, even if the convoy has some real escorts.
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Did you miss Cicada article? It has got variant with PPC. Good ride that.
Whoops, you're right, I forgot the -3C. I guess there's also the JR7-A, with the large laser, though both are variants, rather than standard models, and the -3C is described as "very limited" in number while the 7-A is entirely gone by 3025. Nonetheless, I stand corrected.
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If only people wouldn't try to make the Assassin a battlefield generalist, it could be astoundingly good. A revamp with a suitable EW suite, even at the expense of most of the weaponry, would do an excellent job leading light scout lances. The Alice is the best Assassin out there for just this reason. MMLs would be an interesting addition though.
Here's a link to a refit long those lines. Comments, questions, and bomb threats welcome. http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,22416.0.html
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Whoops, you're right, I forgot the -3C. I guess there's also the JR7-A, with the large laser, though both are variants, rather than standard models, and the -3C is described as "very limited" in number while the 7-A is entirely gone by 3025. Nonetheless, I stand corrected.
And the thickly armored Locust 1M.
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And the thickly armored Locust 1M.
Well the paint does double the armor. Its no wonder the pilots demand four coats.
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Also mentioned in 3039 is the -101 model, which shaves off an already low half ton of armor, and two jump jets, one mounted in the head and one in each leg. Maltex would like to say that this is not a factory legal configuration and they are not liable for anything that happens to these machines.
I think you're missing the "For three small lasers", although I am curious about this head-mounted jumpjet idea of yours. Have they applied to Clan Jade Falcon for the right to use Joanna's likeness in their adcopy?
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Honestly, I am a big fan of the Assassin. The original -21 and modern -30 are both great 'Mechs so long as you remember what they are and do not try to make them do things they were never intended to do in the first place. The -21 is devastating against the few things that can match its speed in 3025, and can wreak an incredible amount of chaos behind enemy lines between Inferno SRMs and poking relatively well guarded assets with its LRMs. The -30 is a fast anti-aircraft platform which can actually move fast enough and shoot far enough to cover a large force on its own, and that alone can make it more valuable than larger and more powerful anti-aircraft platforms even before you factor in its ability to range out ahead of your forces and immobilize vehicles without exposing itself to too much return fire.
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During a 3025-era Mechwarrior campaign I played in... a long time ago, we had a custom Assassin with a ML and SRM-6. That thing was lethal.
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During a 3025-era Mechwarrior campaign I played in... a long time ago, we had a custom Assassin with a ML and SRM-6. That thing was lethal.
I bet, although I am wondering what you did with the last ton. Another ton of ammo would be nice for Infernos, but on the other hand you can never go wrong with more armor. Of course, it is also possible you meant you added another Medium Laser which would just be cruel so long as you had a buddy to torch soft targets for you.
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Its a skirmisher rather than a front line unit, if that is remembered than its a great design if not its dead meat. But use a lance worth of them and watch as heavys begin to die. Remember the Star League loved to group designs together, so it probably wasn't uncommon for the Star League to have Companys of Assassin's hunting down opposing Light mechs.
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WRT the armor, the Assassin's is thicker, compared to most light mechs in 3025. Most lights have only four tons of armor or less, and most did not have weapons capable or reaching 300 meters. The only contemporary ones heavier are the Firestarter (a rare specialist), the Panther (a heavy mech in a light mech's body) and the Urbanmech (a common, but also specialist design). The Valkyrie and Wolfhound came later. So two of the three mechs able to out armor it and fight it at range, and the ASN-30 can literally run rings around both of them.
Really it might have worked better with the name Jackal. Use the LRM to harass and soften up a light beyond it's range, use the speed to keep the range open till you have weakened it, then swoop in to finish it off with your armor fresh, and his shot full of holes.
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I have worked out a way to use the Assassin as a literal assassin, but it does require the use of a dismounted Davy Crockett warhead and the necessary modifications to allow for manual detonation.
...What? ???
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I have worked out a way to use the Assassin as a literal assassin, but it does require the use of a dismounted Davy Crockett warhead and the necessary modifications to allow for manual detonation.
...What? ???
No, the easy way to assassinate commanders use an assassin is using Inferno SRMs and/or Incendiary LRMs against command bunkers. Draw off the defenders and circle around to torch the structure, or just light it up from a safe distance with the LRMs.
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Guys, what is it with this name obsession? You don't want your Mechwarriors try to wield their Warhammers literally, do you? :D
Anyway- I like the Assassin as it is fast and offers me what I like most: options. Staying at long range, plinking away with that LRM 5 can be very annoying (especially if its targets are tanks hit on their sides) and sometimes forces an opponent to invest ressources trying to hunt it down.
It can also close in for some backstabbing again more to annoy than to kill.
Most of the time opponents will try to hit more dangerous, slower foes so my Assassins usually survive their battles.
They are a cheap way to get a highly mobile unit onto the battlefield that serves as Harasser as well as as Backstabber.
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The Assassin is great for getting into the rear arc, on slower designs, and staying there until its target dies or until you break something else off from your force to run it off. Then it goes off to hunt some other slow poke. Using 4/5 pilots means for high target modifiers to be hit in intro tech. Latter eras it needs more armor due to increased range and pulse tech.
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a light ‘Mech hunter-killer, which I presume means “Killing bugs”,
Assassin Beetle?
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A friend of mine has modified an Assassin with a second LRM5 in place of the SRM pack. He uses it as missile support for his Spectres. Seems to work pretty well...
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A friend of mine has modified an Assassin with a second LRM5 in place of the SRM pack. He uses it as missile support for his Spectres. Seems to work pretty well...
That's one of the mods we did to one in a campaign. Add a second LRM 5 sharing the ammo with the other and add a Medium Laser. A couple soften up barrages as we closed, and 2 ML to finish it. Very handy against Lights and also effective against Mediums. Against things that out gunned you. Your way faster and can break contact with ease.
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That's one of the mods we did to one in a campaign. Add a second LRM 5 sharing the ammo with the other and add a Medium Laser. A couple soften up barrages as we closed, and 2 ML to finish it. Very handy against Lights and also effective against Mediums. Against things that out gunned you. Your way faster and can break contact with ease.
Where do you get the extra ton for the second laser? Jump jets?
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The 21 is greatly underappreciated; it works extremely well in combination with dirt-common 'mechs of the 3025 era. If you see it as a "heavy light" instead of a "light medium" you'll appreciate its capabilities more.
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Where do you get the extra ton for the second laser? Jump jets?
Magic? Actually I was thinking it had a second ML but now, I may have to look back at the sheet, or maybe it was the backstabber we made that had 2 SRM2s and 2 MLs I'm confused with.
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I lub the wee Assassin. It can always get where I want it to be. Add some special ammo (IE, smoke for the LRMs and inferno for the SRM2) and you really hurt people's feelings.
As with most swift, but fragile Lights / Mediums, you just can't send em out alone and expect good things to happen. They thrive when there's other threats apparent and immediate to the enemy force. When the enemy has to decide whether to deal with the main enemy line, or those pesky ASN's darting about at high TN's. This'll usually cause him to reduce how much firepower is sent their way, and will often make it more likely the ASN has rear armor to exploit.
I know mods are usually frowned upon in these discussions, but will gather some ire anyway: a mod I make myself in 3025 settings is dropping all weapons in favor of a RA-mounted Large Laser. It's a fun design, but it immediately displays the stealth-benefits of the ASN-23. The LL-equipped one definitely attracts a bunch of attention. The -23 has a much easier time getting people to discount it's threat potential.
(So, I actually had a reason to bring up the mod that's germane to the -23)
The 101 amuses me for the same reason the -W Wasp does, but those 2 missing JJs are sorely missed. I'd sacrifice almost anything else to keep them.
Paul
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I also tend to agree that the Assassin is pretty under apprecated and under rated. Yes, its mainly under rated because its rated a 1 when its really a 4, and even the best mechs in that role are 2s or 3s in that era, but still.
As has been aptly pointed out, if you want a 7/11/7 mech in that era, the Assassin and Spider are the key choices, and while the Spider has its advantages (its a bit faster, and with two lasers it hits harder in close and has no ammo woes) the Assassin is a perficly competitive choice, adding in the ability to hit at range, and with better crit seeking and better heat managment vs the Spider, along with the better armor. So, if you need a mech that is fast that you just want to have to cause trouble, then the Assassin is a great choice. Because it can position itself very effectively, and because with its +1 TMM realitive to mechs that only jump 6 or run 9, it can get closer to enemy mechs more safely, and employ its minimal weapons quite well. Relitive to a lot of comperable 6/9/6 mechs that seem to be more powerful, the Assassin is likely to do nearly as much damage, and to the right mechs at the right time in battle. People look at the PHawk or Vulcan with the MLs or Fire Javelin or Jenner and it looks like its pretty lacking, but that extra MP or jet makes all the difrence sometimes, because you can be where you want to be, when you want to be there.
Would it be vastly better with a number of key modifications? Yes, there's little question about that. But, is it very usable? Yes.
And, of course, if the Jenner had 7 jets, no one would ever use it...
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I remember, a long time ago, my friends and I had a contest about doing up the best Assassin variant, and all six of us came up with six different takes on it.
It has SO MUCH room for improvement it's sad and depressing that no one official has ever managed to do up an adequate version.
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The 21 is greatly underappreciated; it works extremely well in combination with dirt-common 'mechs of the 3025 era.
Dirt-common 'Mechs being the Wolfhound, Jenner F, Firestarter "Mirage", and Fire Javelin. ::) Most who use those probably shrug off the more common Stingers, Locusts, and Wasps.
I'm not going to defend the Assassin again. I'll get stones thrown at me. Probably the same stones used for those who try to defend the Rifleman.
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I'm not going to say the original Assassin is the greatest `Mech out there, but it makes sense to me. It was designed to fight against the classic bug trio, and I think it works for what it was designed for. It looks to me the designers took the Wasp, then simply made it bigger, faster, with a bit of extra ranged firepower. And it should work. The Assassin is fast enough to stay away from the Wasp and Stinger, and while its slower than the Locust, it does have Jump Jets to make up for the slight speed discrepancy. LRMs to soften up the targets, then SRMs and MLs to finish the target off.
Could it be done better? Yes, but I can see here its coming from as well. Is it going to suck against some of the modern `Mechs? Sure. But it was designed in an era when they could afford specialization, and the answer to "There's a company of Wasps out there!" was "Send out the battalion of Assassins!"
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Guys, what is it with this name obsession? You don't want your Mechwarriors try to wield their Warhammers literally, do you? :D
Yes.
Me want.
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Dirt-common 'Mechs being the Wolfhound, Jenner F, Firestarter "Mirage", and Fire Javelin. ::) Most who use those probably shrug off the more common Stingers, Locusts, and Wasps.
I'm not going to defend the Assassin again. I'll get stones thrown at me. Probably the same stones used for those who try to defend the Rifleman.
Actually, I was thinking specifically of the plain vanilla Stinger, Wasp and Locust, serving as fire support/command for the lighter jobs. It also pairs well with the Archer, Rifleman and the wonder-55's (Shadowhawk, Wolverine, Griffin), where it serves as lighter scout.
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Dirt-common 'Mechs being the Wolfhound, Jenner F, Firestarter "Mirage", and Fire Javelin. ::) Most who use those probably shrug off the more common Stingers, Locusts, and Wasps.
I'm not going to defend the Assassin again. I'll get stones thrown at me. Probably the same stones used for those who try to defend the Rifleman.
The Wolfhound didn't exist in 3025, the Firestarter is a rare specialist, much less a very specific variant of it, the Jenner F is rare compared to the Jenner D and is concentrated hugely in the Draconis Combine (and thus, doesn't see a lot of action in something like half of the entire Inner Sphere, if not more), and the Fire Javelin is used only by the Federated Suns, and again in small numbers.
Those aren't really dirt common, so much as you managed to pick out a list of Light 'Mechs that exist in introductory tech that fall outside of the Assassin's hunting grounds. Good job.
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The Wolfhound didn't exist in 3025, the Firestarter is a rare specialist, much less a very specific variant of it, the Jenner F is rare compared to the Jenner D and is concentrated hugely in the Draconis Combine (and thus, doesn't see a lot of action in something like half of the entire Inner Sphere, if not more), and the Fire Javelin is used only by the Federated Suns, and again in small numbers.
Those aren't really dirt common, so much as you managed to pick out a list of Light 'Mechs that exist in introductory tech that fall outside of the Assassin's hunting grounds. Good job.
Well aware of that. Obviously, you don't get it.
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My biggest complaint about the Assassin(21) is that it's pretty much a 40 ton light mech.
What I mean is, if you think of it in terms of a light mechs, you see it's actually pretty good. Sure the weapons load out is less than optimal, but in 3025 that's pretty much the norm.
If, however, your in a campaign with any sort of randomness to the unit generation, and you pay points/cash for a medium mech, and roll an Assassin, your probably gonna be upset. Do this a couple of times and you'll probably end up feeling tweaked off just thinking about it.
It's kinda like getting a random assault mech and rolling a Charger. Ya, sure, it's useable, but it's not what you were hoping for when rolled those dice.
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What Fear Factory is trying to say is that what is true in universe is not necessarily true on table top. Personally I would be willing to challenge the Wolfhound with an Assassin, but the others would be a lot more trouble. This is similar to our ballistic weapons argument where depending upon what style you played dictated wether, or not you respected the tools. People who only use uber lights are less likely to respect the thing and people who use it against people who use the uber lights will find their usefulness downsized.
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[copper]
Let's all just relax and let cooler heads prevail here. This discussion is getting a little heated and beginning to verge on warnings being thrown.
/ [copper]
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My biggest complaint about the Assassin(21) is that it's pretty much a 40 ton light mech.
What I mean is, if you think of it in terms of a light mechs, you see it's actually pretty good. Sure the weapons load out is less than optimal, but in 3025 that's pretty much the norm.
If, however, your in a campaign with any sort of randomness to the unit generation, and you pay points/cash for a medium mech, and roll an Assassin, your probably gonna be upset. Do this a couple of times and you'll probably end up feeling tweaked off just thinking about it.
It's kinda like getting a random assault mech and rolling a Charger. Ya, sure, it's useable, but it's not what you were hoping for when rolled those dice.
Actually, if I was playing a campaign game I'd expect there to be quite a lot of recon/raiding missions. So I would be quite happy with getting an Assassin! In fact, I'd rather have an Assassin than a Clint or a Vulcan.
Now if I was rolling up a random force for a one-off shoot-out on a limited battlefield, then I would be unhappy!
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My biggest complaint about the Assassin(21) is that it's pretty much a 40 ton light mech.
Given that the light/medium/heavy/assault cutoffs are pretty much arbitrary, I really don't have a problem with this statement (which is true).
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I've had some luck with the Assasin, even though it seems to be an artillery magnet for me. I have been known to use it as a raider on large maps to hit objectives.
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I found the Assassin great with the old Inferno rules where they could only be loaded in SRM2s and they burned for 3 turns. You could run around the battlefield at top speed as Capt Chaos...
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Given that the light/medium/heavy/assault cutoffs are pretty much arbitrary, I really don't have a problem with this statement (which is true).
And that would be exactly why I group 'Mechs by movement rather than weight, although if you have to group by weight it would make sense to bump each class up five tons due to the way the movement efficiencies work out.
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I have been known to use it as a raider on large maps to hit objectives.
How large maps? How many turns? With or without Double Blind?
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How large maps? How many turns? With or without Double Blind?
The maps are 4 to 5 map sheets deep, width being less important. This was done in Megamek, and the objective of the scenario is to destroy a handful of light buildings (barracks, supply sheds, or anything else you want them to be) with a company to a side.
I hold the Assassin back while the heavier units form a line of battle in the center, waiting until each sides main combatants are commited. Then I run the Assassin directly toward the objectives (every time I've done this there have been trees or hills that made a straight jump the fastest option), and forcing my opponents to make certain decisions.
Their options are
a) Ignore my raider and give me a simple win.
b) Pull their fast movers off the line, which gives my heavies an advantage in numbers. In theory this advantage is enough to win that fight and then continue on to the objective with superior force.
c) They can try pulling heavy forces from the main battle to chase down the Assassin, which allows me to hit them in their rear, as well as having a 40 tonner tying up valuable direct combat units.
While the scenario might be a bit unbalanced (at the least I need to make the buildings more durable), and it has only been done in 3025, I think it shows the potential of the 'mech as part of a larger plan.
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Actually, the Assassin does live up to it's name, but it requires that people do two things.
One is remember the rules it was written under, and two, stop thinking of mech vs. mech only, combat.....
At the time that the assassin was designed, the SRM2 was the ONLY launcher with infernos, and they pretty much could kill an ICE Hover..... IF you could hit it.....
With it's movement profile, the Assassin can go over trees, etc, that the hovers have to go around, and armed with Infernos, it can kill them in one hit......
It also has the same medium laser that other mechs have ....stinger, wasp, oscout, etc... and an LRM5, same as a Grasshopper, or Shadowhawk. The -30 increases it's use against hovers and also gives it a use with VTOL's -
It's purpose is to kill light units, and screen it's forces from spotters and hover mounted tag units, like Minions, Beagles, or other fast light units. It's failure is when people try to use it in mech to mech combat, where it's as useful as an Urbanmech in open terrain.
Although I too would love to see a variant with MML's.......
Nahuris
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I've had a lot of luck punching out K2 Catapult cockpits with the Assassin. To the point where friends would rage quit because their "perfect designs" were falling to such a "horrible" 'Mech.
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I've had a lot of luck punching out K2 Catapult cockpits with the Assassin. To the point where friends would rage quit because their "perfect designs" were falling to such a "horrible" 'Mech.
I've always had great luck with Assassins --- in one of my past battles with Col. Hengist, it was an Assassin -30 that led the light lance racing through his clan formation, providing both close firepower AND tag locks from other mechs that allowed the lance of Stygian Hover Tanks to drop 3 of their combined 4 LRM15's on one mech, via indirect fire. AND it was the LBX5 on that Assassin-30 that killed the pilot who's cockpit had already caught the IS Large Pulse laser with a fragment to the crit 3.....
I love Assassins... you just have to remember that their job isn't necessarily to after other mechs......
Nahuris
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It's a shame I don't really like any of them outside of the 21. The 101, I have used on occasion, but I'm a fluff kind of guy so I understand that there are only a handful out there. The 23 isn't that bad if you are playing an era specific game. All the others are just not Assassins to me... so much potential with all the weapons that exist and we get the 99 and 30.
For those interested, I have two variants that I use here (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,22599.new.html#new). The ASN-31 and ASN-21 "Archetype" X. Archetype is actually my modern custom ride... it's a fluff design.
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I love Assassins... you just have to remember that their job isn't necessarily to after other mechs......
Starterbook: Sword and Dragon has Assassin in a player's force by default + in all RATs, and that book has nothing but 'Mech battles ::)
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Actually, the Assassin does live up to it's name, but it requires that people do two things.
One is remember the rules it was written under, and two, stop thinking of mech vs. mech only, combat.....
At the time that the assassin was designed, the SRM2 was the ONLY launcher with infernos, and they pretty much could kill an ICE Hover..... IF you could hit it.....
With it's movement profile, the Assassin can go over trees, etc, that the hovers have to go around, and armed with Infernos, it can kill them in one hit......
I'm 99% certain that infernos didn't affect anything except mechs until the Compendium at the earliest... They were quite good at torching woods and other flammables, thought - like supply dumps. ;)
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Starterbook: Sword and Dragon has Assassin in a player's force by default + in all RATs, and that book has nothing but 'Mech battles ::)
Yes, but how many Stingers and Wasps are there for it to bully?
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Starterbook: Sword and Dragon has Assassin in a player's force by default + in all RATs, and that book has nothing but 'Mech battles ::)
Yes, clearly this single source and scenario sourcebook is the be-all, end-all of how an Assassin should be deployed.
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Yes, clearly this single source and scenario sourcebook is the be-all, end-all of how an Assassin should be deployed.
Huh? Goes digging for "that" Starterbook.
(edit: wow more then 10 posts. Now to get back to the Levels I had on the old boards will take a little while.)
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I love Assassins... you just have to remember that their job isn't necessarily to after other mechs......
Nahuris
I've used them for years as objective raiders. Frustrated the hell out of players in my RPG campaigns whenever they were on garrison and I sent one of these in after they were distracted by a diversionary attack. Hard to hit, crosses any ground quick, and just enough firepower to take out small vehicles or backstab slow 'Mechs. I also echo the "captain chaos" sentiment about the combo of this thing and the old inferno rules.
Finally, I remember making total mockeries out of the recon or objective missions in MW2 Mercenaries with this little guy. Those old jump jet mechanics were awesomely crazy. :)
I really think that the version with the Stealth Armor actually begs for tons of Rocket Launchers and maybe coolant pods so that you can sneak up, make one hell of a slashing pass, and then get out of dodge while everyone's still shaking off the shock. :)
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I remember making a version with stealth armor, MASC, and a bunch of small lasers hooked to a TC. The idea being to actually assassinate enemy mechs - sneak up to them using stealth, dash in the last distance using MASC, then blow out a rear torso location using aimed shots with all the lasers.
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I remember making a version with stealth armor, MASC, and a bunch of small lasers hooked to a TC. The idea being to actually assassinate enemy mechs - sneak up to them using stealth, dash in the last distance using MASC, then blow out a rear torso location using aimed shots with all the lasers.
In other words, an IS close of the Phantom C?
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Or Fire Moth H.
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With stealth armor. 8)
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I've used them for years as objective raiders. Frustrated the hell out of players in my RPG campaigns whenever they were on garrison and I sent one of these in after they were distracted by a diversionary attack. Hard to hit, crosses any ground quick, and just enough firepower to take out small vehicles or backstab slow 'Mechs. I also echo the "captain chaos" sentiment about the combo of this thing and the old inferno rules.
I'd load up the SRM with infernos if sending an Assassin off on this kind of mission. Get in, torch his supplies, rear area troops, and base camp. Then run like hell before a typical player's 'Wall of Steel' can turn around, much less engage your raiding Assassin. Unless there is no where safe for it to land, an Assassin in full flight is a +4 to hit (ground or full jump), if it can avoid short range that will put it at 10+ to hit for a regular gunner, plus shooter's movement mod and any screening terrain.
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I'm 99% certain that infernos didn't affect anything except mechs until the Compendium at the earliest... They were quite good at torching woods and other flammables, thought - like supply dumps. ;)
If I remember correctly, and with the few books that survived my house fire last year still in storage, I am having to rely totally on memory.... so if anyone has the rules, please jump in......... it had to do with heat. Any ICE vehicle was considered destroyed if it had even 1 point of heat at the end of a turn, and being hit with infernos gave you 6 heat ----- being in a burning hex gave you 5, and being in an adjacent hex to a burning hex gave you 2.......
A lot of vehicles in the 3026 book do not have any heat sinks..... since they don't need them for ammo using weapons.
And, of course, being infantry in a burning hex is just all kinds of bad .....
Nahuris
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If I remember correctly, and with the few books that survived my house fire last year still in storage, I am having to rely totally on memory.... so if anyone has the rules, please jump in......... it had to do with heat. Any ICE vehicle was considered destroyed if it had even 1 point of heat at the end of a turn, and being hit with infernos gave you 6 heat ----- being in a burning hex gave you 5, and being in an adjacent hex to a burning hex gave you 2.......
A lot of vehicles in the 3026 book do not have any heat sinks..... since they don't need them for ammo using weapons.
And, of course, being infantry in a burning hex is just all kinds of bad .....
Studentoftruth
I have a vague recollection of this being true. Don't ask me in what version that was though.
All my really old books are in storage on the mainland though, so I can't confirm.
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I went and dug through my library of books. The first rules for Infernos I can find are in the Battletech Manual (copyright 1987). Inferno missiles affect 'Mechs and set fires, however any vehicle in a hex on fire must roll an 8+ to survive. Doesn't say one way or the other about hitting a vehicle with an Inferno round. However, Inferno Bombs (dropped from ASFs or conventional fighters) do destroy any vehicle in the hex it hits and make an 8+ roll for vehicles in the surrounding hexes.
The Battletech Compendium has the "8+ roll for 3 turns" rule that vehicle players all came to loathe explicitly spelled out.
OK, back on topic now...
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I went and dug through my library of books. The first rules for Infernos I can find are in the Battletech Manual (copyright 1987). Inferno missiles affect 'Mechs and set fires, however any vehicle in a hex on fire must roll an 8+ to survive. Doesn't say one way or the other about hitting a vehicle with an Inferno round. However, Inferno Bombs (dropped from ASFs or conventional fighters) do destroy any vehicle in the hex it hits and make an 8+ roll for vehicles in the surrounding hexes.
The Battletech Compendium has the "8+ roll for 3 turns" rule that vehicle players all came to loathe explicitly spelled out.
OK, back on topic now...
Thanks C.T.
And that's why I have always considered the Assassin to be a carry over from early attempts at combined arms warfare. It was just that early on, battletech players went the path of " I killz your mech with my mech" and that was that. I know that the 7 year campaign that I ran in Virginia, during the 90's, ran into some issues with that. I had players that wanted to use tanks or infantry, and the unit commander absolutely forbid them..... and would also get extremely upset if they faced vehicles.... especially if they damaged the commander's Marauder. That was a total death sentence....... said vehicle would be fired on until every last point of it's existence was destroyed.
The assassin always seemed tailor made for hunting hovers, and ruining infantry's day, at least in my opinion. The ability to jump over terrain that hovers had to go around made up for any slight speed difference.
Nahuris
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And that's why I have always considered the Assassin to be a carry over from early attempts at combined arms warfare. It was just that early on, battletech players went the path of " I killz your mech with my mech" and that was that. I know that the 7 year campaign that I ran in Virginia, during the 90's, ran into some issues with that. I had players that wanted to use tanks or infantry, and the unit commander absolutely forbid them..... and would also get extremely upset if they faced vehicles.... especially if they damaged the commander's Marauder. That was a total death sentence....... said vehicle would be fired on until every last point of it's existence was destroyed.
Know what is funny here? That in-universe there are some commanders with just that kind of attitude :D
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I'm always drawing parallels to the Shadowhawk for some reason...
I have used the LB-5X version willingly (yeah, I do have a masochistic streak---I also played Cappie during the Reign of Davion Fiat), and successfully as a vehicle hunter-killer. I kamikazied through my opponent's lines to line up disabling shots on his arty tanks. (Demolisher AIVs) Managed to TAC-ammo one, and slow the other one down (okay--didn't make that much of a difference with that one)...and absorbed 4 Arrow rounds that could have been more productively used downrange at my clustered assault line.
Is it wrong to use a machine as mobile decoy? Well, I'm the guy who painted up a Fireball like Pikachu (complete with tail)...great fun watching people waste copious amounts of Gauss ammo
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I'm always drawing parallels to the Shadowhawk for some reason...
I have used the LB-5X version willingly (yeah, I do have a masochistic streak---I also played Cappie during the Reign of Davion Fiat), and successfully as a vehicle hunter-killer. I kamikazied through my opponent's lines to line up disabling shots on his arty tanks. (Demolisher AIVs) Managed to TAC-ammo one, and slow the other one down (okay--didn't make that much of a difference with that one)...and absorbed 4 Arrow rounds that could have been more productively used downrange at my clustered assault line.
Is it wrong to use a machine as mobile decoy? Well, I'm the guy who painted up a Fireball like Pikachu (complete with tail)...great fun watching people waste copious amounts of Gauss ammo
Honestly, given what you did with that thing I would not call it a decoy. You tore out half your opponent's artillery battery, slowed the other half, and drew a fair amount of artillery fire off the main battle line all with one 'Mech. That makes it an effective strike in my book.
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I remember using the Assassin, I striped out the LRM launcher and added more armour and a second ML, it become a great bug killer. I would have removed the SRM and kept the LRM but I wanted to be able to use inferno rounds.
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I'm always drawing parallels to the Shadowhawk for some reason...
I have used the LB-5X version willingly (yeah, I do have a masochistic streak---I also played Cappie during the Reign of Davion Fiat), and successfully as a vehicle hunter-killer. I kamikazied through my opponent's lines to line up disabling shots on his arty tanks. (Demolisher AIVs) Managed to TAC-ammo one, and slow the other one down (okay--didn't make that much of a difference with that one)...and absorbed 4 Arrow rounds that could have been more productively used downrange at my clustered assault line.
Is it wrong to use a machine as mobile decoy? Well, I'm the guy who painted up a Fireball like Pikachu (complete with tail)...great fun watching people waste copious amounts of Gauss ammo
Again, this is an example of a well used mech ---- does the Assassin have weaknesses, yes.... but used as a team player, rather than a stand alone duelist, it can get the job done.
Nahuris
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And its always fun in 3025 to be zipping around at 7/11/7 speeds with only enough firepower to be annoying.
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Use a Spider.
>:D
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Use a Spider.
>:D
Sure, as long as my opponent is willing to be slow or stupid, and let me keep him in my narrower firing arc while zipping all over the place, along with giving up infernos, and specialty LRM ammo ......
That's the reason I LIKE the Assassin, I can use one with Narc ammo to help my Raven, or..... Infernos....etc.
Could the mech be designed better? Yes, but then again, so can any mech, with the exception of the Spider...... there's no help for that one.... his best hope is that his opponent doesn't use reflective armor, and is willing to be predictable so the spider can keep him in range and within fire arcs......
Nahuris
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Seriously, firing arc?
Something like the Spider only dips in when it has initiative, and then it has the speed to still put two turns into a ten hex sprint. Or it jumps in, and then arc matters only when it offers someone else its backside.
Besides, two of the Assassins three weapons are torso mounted too...
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Seriously, firing arc?
Something like the Spider only dips in when it has initiative, and then it has the speed to still put two turns into a ten hex sprint. Or it jumps in, and then arc matters only when it offers someone else its backside.
Besides, two of the Assassins three weapons are torso mounted too...
Every time I've fielded the Spider, the other side has either had a Jenner, or something like a Talon, where the firing arc matters......
That, or LBX ..
Plus, with a range of only 9 hexes, and the fire arc limitation, you get torn up with mechs like the Phoenix hawk, or others with arm mounted weapons that can generate similar target numbers, as it forces you to use your short range, and you won't have the armor to take even lucky shots.....
Every Spider I have ever fielded has been a casualty.... and since I seem to have no issues with Assassins, Jenners, Locusts, or other lights.... well, that's answer enough for me.
Nahuris
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When it comes to the Assassin, I can best sum up my feelings for them mech this way:
I have never, in all my years playing basic battletech, going back to before the clans were introduced, said to myself "boy, I really wish I had an assassin right now". I have never even said to myself "you know, this lance needs an assassin to round it out". In fact, the Assassin has the honor of my never (until the last 2 box sets) even owning a mini of it, something that only 1 other mech dating back that far can share (the Ostol - and that's esthetics)
Now, if I was playing a RPG, the Assassin would be high up on my list of mechs I'd like. But in the board game? nope... never used one, don't see any reason to ever use one.
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When it comes to the Assassin, I can best sum up my feelings for them mech this way:
I have never, in all my years playing basic battletech, going back to before the clans were introduced, said to myself "boy, I really wish I had an assassin right now". I have never even said to myself "you know, this lance needs an assassin to round it out". In fact, the Assassin has the honor of my never (until the last 2 box sets) even owning a mini of it, something that only 1 other mech dating back that far can share (the Ostol - and that's esthetics)
I look at it more from the angle of, is this a lance that an Assasin wouldn't work in. The answer is frequently yes, but mostly in heavy units. If I want a recon lance, or anything that need a fast movement, I rarely look at my options and say "the Assasin won't fit in."
I guess I tend to select 'mechs based on what I have available (which isn't much based off minis) rather than what I would like to have.
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I have never had an Assassin do much damage, but they can be an annoyance.
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My group only allows canon variants and for the love of pete, this is an awesome model but needs a better SW variant.
A variant I would love to use removes the LRM5 and replaces with another SRM2, Medium Laser and a ton of armor. The assassin was designed to kill bug mechs and this has twice the firepower of the standard Wasp.
Pretty please CGL :)
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My group only allows canon variants and for the love of pete, this is an awesome model but needs a better SW variant.
A variant I would love to use removes the LRM5 and replaces with another SRM2, Medium Laser and a ton of armor. The assassin was designed to kill bug mechs and this has twice the firepower of the standard Wasp.
Pretty please CGL :)
With the fluff of the 'Mech describing the faulty SRM-2 launcher you would think some mods would exist. Pilots dropping the launcher for another LRM-5 to match the Valkyrie makes too much sense, and it also makes an excellent skirmisher for Alpha Strike (1/2/1 damage, IF1, anyone? I'm drooling).
I want a variant that drops the SRM-2 for an LRM-5. I also think a variant that drops an LRM-5 for an SRM-4 (or a mod you propose) makes perfect sense. I can live with the armor, and without any variants that do things like spam multiple medium lasers. That's what we have the Jenner and Javelin for.
Just as a side note: If the SRM-2 actually hit with both missiles on a 7+ it would really, REALLY, help.
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With the fluff of the 'Mech describing the faulty SRM-2 launcher you would think some mods would exist. Pilots dropping the launcher for another LRM-5 to match the Valkyrie makes too much sense, and it also makes an excellent skirmisher for Alpha Strike (1/2/1 damage, IF1, anyone? I'm drooling).
I want a variant that drops the SRM-2 for an LRM-5. I also think a variant that drops an LRM-5 for an SRM-4 (or a mod you propose) makes perfect sense. I can live with the armor, and without any variants that do things like spam multiple medium lasers. That's what we have the Jenner and Javelin for.
Just as a side note: If the SRM-2 actually hit with both missiles on a 7+ it would really, REALLY, help.
if you are going to drop the LRM's for more SRM's, it would probably be better to just upgrade the SRM2 to a SRM6, and use the extra ton for more ammo.
to be honest, i'm surprised we never got an advanced tech model that upgraded the ML to a LL.. the -30 certainly had the tonnage to do so instead of fitting that LB5X, and a large laser and SRM packing fast mover would have been a fairly useful scout hunter and harrasser. (not to mention, a defiance built LL assassin would have been an alternative to the Bowie Industries Razorback during the civil war, something Defiance likely would have desired to have to help get a bigger market share.
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if you are going to drop the LRM's for more SRM's, it would probably be better to just upgrade the SRM2 to a SRM6, and use the extra ton for more ammo.
to be honest, i'm surprised we never got an advanced tech model that upgraded the ML to a LL.. the -30 certainly had the tonnage to do so instead of fitting that LB5X, and a large laser and SRM packing fast mover would have been a fairly useful scout hunter and harrasser. (not to mention, a defiance built LL assassin would have been an alternative to the Bowie Industries Razorback during the civil war, something Defiance likely would have desired to have to help get a bigger market share.
An LPPC (with or without capacitor) would be a good lightweight option as well.
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I've also thought you could drop the LRM5/SRM2 and replace with 2 SRM4's and the leave the amor as is. There a number of cool ways you could go.
I really want to use one in a game but the stock version is not as fun as it should be when you are trying to get a game done in a few hours. It is cool jumping round a lot and generating high to 'to hit number's but you're not really contributing a great deal in damage.
Maybe in the 3rd SW book they could introduce a new variant.....just a thought. Maybe the disastrous attempt at the ASN-101 spurred a redesign by the FS which later led to the ASN-30....
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In light of the sling in Operation KLONDIKE, I came up with a new role for the mech. Battlefield preperation. Much like the firestarter and sling this beast is a strategic asset more then a combat platform, using the SRM for infernos and LRMs for thunders. The laser is strictly for self defense.
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The sling is a cool mech (I have two) but they also have the variant with all lasers designed for getting in close but it can run a little hot.
I like your thinking though in that the base model is used for battlefield control (that would suggest longer games though) and my thought of a more combat orientated variant allows you to get those quicker games in.
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The problem with the battlefield prep role is said role pretty much requires thunder lrms. But the standard tech models are all succession wars level, a time when thunder lrms don't exist.
Before the succession wars when the class was new, there were far better ways to spread mines around. By the time thunder lrms were reintroduced in the clan invasion era, there were once again better platforms for the job.
I am convinced the assassin is named after the assassin bug.. It is a bigger bugmech that hunts bug mechs
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I'd never considered the Assassin Bug as the name, but it does rather fit.
As to the upgrades, I'm someone who genuinely likes the mech, and I think there's a lot of focus on how it could be better that there's too little look at what it infact does well. I'd rather see the mech just become more of what it already is. In the Succession Wars, swapping the SRMs for MLs is just too tempting (same range, more power, and you can jump to cover to cool down if the heat gets to you) but I do like to keep the LRMs, just because so few lights actually can shoot past nine hexes and two to five points of damage can really worry a lot of lights in that era. Alternitively, just mount more armor and use it as a super scout. And, I'll confess, when I used one in my youth I just went all out and traded all the missiles away for MLs and armor, but it wasn't as flavorful as it should have been (even if it did become a sort of alternate Jenner F, which is never a bad thing).
On the modern Assassin, MMLs if avalable can't be ignored. I've never liked the AC5 (the Hermes II, Clint and Vulcan already fill that role in their ways). I probably would have just larger missile launchers, either a LRM10 or a SRM6 upgrade. There's already a super Cicada with an ER PPC (at 8/12/8, very Viper A like) so I wouldn't do that. Maybe keep the old (terrable) weapons and just mount IJJs? The jump jets were always the reason to take the mech anyway, since it was one of the few 7+ jumping options, so why not stick to that and make it one of the very few 10+ jumping options, and people will take it inspite of mounting some Shadow Hawk-eque missiles just because it flys.
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I quite like the standard model when you have the time and scope to get the most out of it but I think you could have a SW variant with a more direct combat focus.
I also wouldn't want to change the 'flavor' of the design and wouldn't want medium laser spam so whether you go Lrm or srm focus I think either would be cool. You could always keep the medium laser and replace the rest with a large laser in the LT which could then inspire the ASN-30. Just a thought.
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I'd never considered the Assassin Bug as the name, but it does rather fit.
As to the upgrades, I'm someone who genuinely likes the mech, and I think there's a lot of focus on how it could be better that there's too little look at what it infact does well. I'd rather see the mech just become more of what it already is.
I'd love to see a version that made it live up to its name of Assassin...like you say, more of the same, but actually able to take others...I've come up with some ideas today...something I think a Star League era Gunslinger might like to pilot... }:)
Ruger
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full XL DHS treatment, with null sig and CLPS, perhaps? not sure what weapons would be best. the original assassins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins) were asymmetrical warfare specialists, which to be honest is not exactly a job the Gunslingers were created to do. but a super-stealthy special ops version for the Star League special ops units might be interesting.
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No point reinventing the wheel and found this previous post, not sure about the long range version as I'd rather have the full jump but I like the short range one:
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=22411.0
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full XL DHS treatment, with null sig and CLPS, perhaps? not sure what weapons would be best. the original assassins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassins) were asymmetrical warfare specialists, which to be honest is not exactly a job the Gunslingers were created to do. but a super-stealthy special ops version for the Star League special ops units might be interesting.
Didn't have room for the CLPS on my version (1 or two crits short), but if I were to remove one or two items, I would have room...guess I could dump the freed up tonnage into armor...
And yeah, it's more a special forces 'Mech than a Gunslinger's, I would agree...
Ruger
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The Assassin is less the mech you use to destroy other mechs, and more the mech one uses to harass supply lines, spot in dangerous locations, to keep an enemy defenders off balance, to disable key vehicles, and for deep reconnaissance. While it could be converted into an underweight Wraith, it need not be converted to such a task. If you choose to arm the SRMs with infernos, it can be used for some more options.
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I'd love to see a version that made it live up to its name of Assassin...like you say, more of the same, but actually able to take others...I've come up with some ideas today...something I think a Star League era Gunslinger might like to pilot... }:)
Ruger
Sounds like a good candidate for a variant with a binary laser, if it can swing the tonnage, I don't know if it can.
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Not at my home comp, but start with a 280 XL and Endo Steel and work from there. You should be able t squeeze that Blazer in there and still have room for armor and jump jets.
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Not at my home comp, but start with a 280 XL and Endo Steel and work from there. You should be able t squeeze that Blazer in there and still have room for armor and jump jets.
There's no problem fitting a blazer on the 'Mech...it's just what other weapons you can have to go with it...My aim was to make it still have lasers and missiles both, but still be better than the base or 101 models...looking at the entry on Sarna, my version would probably be closest to the DarkDeath version, but not carrying an autocannon, and with stuff arranged a tad differently...
Ruger
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I'd love to see a version that made it live up to its name of Assassin...like you say, more of the same, but actually able to take others...I've come up with some ideas today...something I think a Star League era Gunslinger might like to pilot... }:)
Ruger
There is the Alice version. Stab you in the back while it's friends are hitting you from waaay downtown....
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I've found a reference to an ASN-SB and I was wondering if anyone has any information on this variant and whether it is cannon??
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The MUL has it listed with a source of TRO3039, but no record sheet. It does have an introduction date, but I couldn't find either in the TRO, so I have no idea where exactly it shows up.
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Reading through.the responses, seems like most will drop the SRM2 in the 21 for another LRM5 - first thing I did to mine too, love it for early games.
I also made an advanced Davion flavored refit: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=38642.msg1327099#msg1327099
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I've found a reference to an ASN-SB and I was wondering if anyone has any information on this variant and whether it is cannon??
It's related to the Charger-SB, from the same merc unit, and was mentioned in the same BattleTechnology Magazine article. With the CGR-SB being canonized, the plan was to do the same for the ASN-SB. IE. to create an official record sheet. From my MUL emails, "It was slated to be added to RS 3039..." and "[removes SRM2 in favour of 2nd ML and armour]". But I don't think it ever made it. So it should probably be removed from the MUL at this point.
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Reading through.the responses, seems like most will drop the SRM2 in the 21 for another LRM5 - first thing I did to mine too, love it for early games.
I also made an advanced Davion flavored refit: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=38642.msg1327099#msg1327099
Huh. I'm more in favor of dropping the LRM and its ammo to bump the SRM rack to a 6 and add another laser (which turns it, I'm aware, into a smaller, more primitive Stealth in a way). Thou shalt hunt tanks, and thou shalt be a pain to kill. Go forth!
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One version I always liked used four ERMLs, a tarcomp, and HFF armor. The lack of range stung a bit, but it was hard to kill.
Maybe keep the old (terrable) weapons and just mount IJJs? The jump jets were always the reason to take the mech anyway, since it was one of the few 7+ jumping options, so why not stick to that and make it one of the very few 10+ jumping options, and people will take it inspite of mounting some Shadow Hawk-eque missiles just because it flys.
After playing around with jumpy mech designs in SSW, I find there isn't much point in jumping more than ten hexes. Ten pushes you into the next bracket, and you can only get eleven with a pricey XL engine. IJJs really mess with where the sweet spot tonnages and movements are.
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Huh. I'm more in favor of dropping the LRM and its ammo to bump the SRM rack to a 6 and add another laser (which turns it, I'm aware, into a smaller, more primitive Stealth in a way). Thou shalt hunt tanks, and thou shalt be a pain to kill. Go forth!
You say "smaller, more primitive Stealth" like it's a bad thing. >:D
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You say "smaller, more primitive Stealth" like it's a bad thing. >:D
No, sir. No I do not. 8)
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The ASN-99 sounds pretty assassin creed-y, stealth armor and a sword backed by 2 SRM-2s and a LPPC.
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I want to love this mech.
I mean the base chassis & speed scream 'love me'. 40 tons, 7/11/7, yes it sounds awesome.
But the weapon choices & lack of armor & Level 1 tech limits just made it so very "meh".
It really needs a powerful new version with Endo & XL to get the most out of it.
Somewthing with ERMLs, & electronics combo of TC/C3S/TAG/ECM or something.
I did do a simple little Jihad era D-Grade refit that kept the original feel & gave it a little more potency.
Swap the weapons for ERML & MML3's & upgrade to DHS & HFFA, its not much but keeps the same feel only a bit more useful.
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I want to love this mech.
I mean the base chassis & speed scream 'love me'. 40 tons, 7/11/7, yes it sounds awesome.
But the weapon choices & lack of armor & Level 1 tech limits just made it so very "meh".
It really needs a powerful new version with Endo & XL to get the most out of it.
Somewthing with ERMLs, & electronics combo of TC/C3S/TAG/ECM or something.
I did do a simple little Jihad era D-Grade refit that kept the original feel & gave it a little more potency.
Swap the weapons for ERML & MML3's & upgrade to DHS & HFFA, its not much but keeps the same feel only a bit more useful.
What do you mean its weapons choices?!?! Just think of it as a faster Shad with a broken AC! ::)
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I want to love this mech.
I mean the base chassis & speed scream 'love me'. 40 tons, 7/11/7, yes it sounds awesome.
But the weapon choices & lack of armor & Level 1 tech limits just made it so very "meh".
It really needs a powerful new version with Endo & XL to get the most out of it.
Somewthing with ERMLs, & electronics combo of TC/C3S/TAG/ECM or something.
I did do a simple little Jihad era D-Grade refit that kept the original feel & gave it a little more potency.
Swap the weapons for ERML & MML3's & upgrade to DHS & HFFA, its not much but keeps the same feel only a bit more useful.
Not sure how far I'd go on upgrading the thing, but swapping out the missiles for an MML-5 sounds to me like the bare minimum required for a Jihad/post-Jihad field refit of a stock ASN-21.
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You can do something really neat using the Steiner chassis.
ASN-31 Assassin (http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=59175.new#new)
I can accept it as a scout.
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Not to be the 'follow the rules' guy, but... We're not supposed to post builds, right? Or am I misremembering?
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Not in the MOTW thread. Links to designs are OK from what I understand, basically so the game designers can read fan articles without seeing fan designs (if they so choose).
The Assassin is my favorite 'Mech so I can't resist. Sorry if it's not allowed.
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TRO Succession Wars would be a great place to update the ASN-SB......just saying.
2x ML and SRM6.....I'd happily buy the record sheet pack just to have that.
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Well, just food for the brain. The Assassin is what its name says it is. A Killer that picks high-value targets and get rid of them. Of course not when the guy is riding in his Atlas but when sleeping in a tent or riding in an open car for the show. LRMs are perfect for killing meaty targets - the explosive and shrapnel makes for lack of precision.
(remember that lousy Hollywood film remake "The Jackal" - Ok the open window and the long aiming period might have been an homage to the original when Edward Fox Character was finally stopped because of the open window. But in seriousness why do you open a window for your 14.5x114mm and why to aim for a headshot when you know that your gun is inaccurate and doesn't need that kind of precision.
And the Assassin doesn't need this super high precision for his kill shot either - unlike LGR, Large Laser or AC2 might need.
LRM has the longest reach on the field so an intercept force needs to stop you some klicks before you are able to get your shot. A Republic Mod might be the mounting of ER-LRMs and a TAG instead of the MLAS
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assassin... i always found the name very ironic... the contract killer coming to work with the tiniest tool of the trade EVER [blank] [blank] [blank]
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Well, just food for the brain. The Assassin is what its name says it is. A Killer that picks high-value targets and get rid of them. Of course not when the guy is riding in his Atlas but when sleeping in a tent or riding in an open car for the show. LRMs are perfect for killing meaty targets - the explosive and shrapnel makes for lack of precision.
(remember that lousy Hollywood film remake "The Jackal" - Ok the open window and the long aiming period might have been an homage to the original when Edward Fox Character was finally stopped because of the open window. But in seriousness why do you open a window for your 14.5x114mm and why to aim for a headshot when you know that your gun is inaccurate and doesn't need that kind of precision.
And the Assassin doesn't need this super high precision for his kill shot either - unlike LGR, Large Laser or AC2 might need.
LRM has the longest reach on the field so an intercept force needs to stop you some klicks before you are able to get your shot. A Republic Mod might be the mounting of ER-LRMs and a TAG instead of the MLAS
At the time it was designed, the SRM2 was the ONLY weapon that could carry infernos ..... race in, see the enemy commander climbing his mech, coat it with napalm, and leave ---- or if you can get in, while the troops are still trying to organize, hit as many as you can with burning gel --- if you get some ammo piles, well, that's just fireworks for your own little arson party.
Nahuris
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I have never had an Assassin do much damage, but they can be an annoyance.
Sorry for reviving a dead thread but I read this as I was considering as a joke using the Assassin in a game against my son as he wants to try a Vindicator. Reading this reply and thinking back to when I first read through 3025 before really understanding the rules (thinking, wow this thing has a cool name and look at how it moves) I was reminded of a comment a fellow player made during a game at my old Flgs. He said "You know Granger never wins, but is takes forever for him to die."
Maybe a harasser like this is the perfect mech for me. 😂😂😂
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In megamek I've gotten some mileage out of the -99 and Alice. (is RS: unique mechs ever coming back?)
Given that one of my new sparring partners just ordered a trio of VTOL and the constant desire of a different one to use them, even the -30 might see some play in the future.
At best assassins are supporting players, not 'line units.'
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At best assassins are supporting players, not 'line units.'
Is anything moving 7/11/7 a "line unit" ? LOL
The speed alone kind of defines it as a Recon role, maybe a Striker unit if enough weight saving tech is used.
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Is anything moving 7/11/7 a "line unit" ? LOL
The speed alone kind of defines it as a Recon role, maybe a Striker unit if enough weight saving tech is used.
Blitzkreig -4F and Legionaire -2K want to talk to you. They can't stay still or act as anchor, but I'd cheerfully put one in a heavy lance. Wraith isn't bad in a scrap either.
After that options get admittedly sparse
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Hmmm, very nice choices to be sure ;)
I'm still not sure I'd call them a "Line" unit, but, yeah, they could be the PointMan in an otherwise heavy lance.
When I think "Line", I think mid-speed (4/6) Upper-End Heavy, with lots of Armor & Guns.
The above Mediums are awesome units, but I'd still probably call them "skirmishers" v/s "line" units.
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Fair. And the assassin never rises above skirmisher or striker in any configuration.
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I remember hating playing with introtech Assassins. But if I did it again, I'd use their mobility to my advantage and abuse other lights and mediums with physical attacks. The 7 jump allows for good positioning for kicking weak legs and punching from behind.
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I remember hating playing with introtech Assassins. But if I did it again, I'd use their mobility to my advantage and abuse other lights and mediums with physical attacks. The 7 jump allows for good positioning for kicking weak legs and punching from behind.
Agreed. The BV2 isn't bad really for a balanced introtech game.
Its twice the cost of a Wasp-1A but the armor alone is 50% more, the movement curve will only amplify that, as will the double tonnage, and the LRM gives you something to hit with outside of ML range.
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Have we gotten the new Assassin in RecGuides since it is in the Empire Alone art? It is firing a 'red' laser so it would be a medium of some sort . . . I think a iHML would be fun.
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To be honest, I have always avoided the Assassin like the plague. I have played all versions and they die far to easily for what little they contribute. I made a custom variant that used (based on a 30) paired LPPC with a cap (each) and a supercharger. That was a nice version to play. As was a variant with multiple SRMs (3x SRM 4) with inferno rounds and a supercharger. Run into range, light the bad guy on fire, and get out.
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I think their effective in Succession War era, hunting lighter machines with light armor. I had some lucky guy head hit, killing my guy with an Assassin.
I always thought them as larger scout / scout hunters. Since they have speed and if hit enough, anti-light mech killer / scout machine.
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Yeah, even though they are a 'medium' they play like a light. I think they could have a interesting rebirth in the Dark Ages/ilClan with some of the advanced materials- Endo-Steel, XL or XXL engines, XL Gyro, LFF/FF/HFF armor and then when you throw on some of the new weapons like heavy lasers & MMLs that allow them to punch or adjust their load for tactical variance . . . yeah, the RecGuide design has options.
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Quite possible we'll see it in the expanded RecGuides. I'd give it at least one chance in three, and more that there is another wave when the new force box(es) come out.
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Yeah, even though they are a 'medium' they play like a light. I think they could have a interesting rebirth in the Dark Ages/ilClan with some of the advanced materials- Endo-Steel, XL or XXL engines, XL Gyro, LFF/FF/HFF armor and then when you throw on some of the new weapons like heavy lasers & MMLs that allow them to punch or adjust their load for tactical variance . . . yeah, the RecGuide design has options.
The Assassin is the "Cicada" of the "Jumping Bugs".
Twice the size, barely more firepower/armor.
And yeah, I agree & always felt a XL would go a LONG way to making it a much nastier ride post 3050.
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Yeah, even though they are a 'medium' they play like a light. I think they could have a interesting rebirth in the Dark Ages/ilClan with some of the advanced materials- Endo-Steel, XL or XXL engines, XL Gyro, LFF/FF/HFF armor and then when you throw on some of the new weapons like heavy lasers & MMLs that allow them to punch or adjust their load for tactical variance . . . yeah, the RecGuide design has options.
That's good thought. You know, more I think of it. It does remind me of the Dasher II, which has the XXL, has lighter weapons but goes stupid fast. Only issue is that XXL are insanely expensive to be practical.
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Not by 3140s, otherwise we would not see them as commonly as we do.
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Have we gotten the new Assassin in RecGuides since it is in the Empire Alone art? It is firing a 'red' laser so it would be a medium of some sort . . . I think a iHML would be fun.
Wait, how can you determine what kind of laser it is from the color?
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Because they had published over the years the 'colors' for the lasers and the video games mostly followed that- I think they gave Heavies a different color at some point, but that was never in BT canon.
This discussion also came up when a topic came up talking about painting the aperatures to reflect the laser size. Looking back at the topic I do not think there was consensus- since MW4 did their own thing a lot, I would take MW2 & MW3 as a better standard.
Besides the Assassin has a med laser in all the old versions rather than a small or large.
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In MW3, Large=Red, Medium=Green, and Small=Blue. Heavies were similar, but a slightly different hue (Heavy Large was kind of an Orange amber, IIRC). I could swear that the books are mostly just inconsistent and contradictory.
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Because they had published over the years the 'colors' for the lasers and the video games mostly followed that- I think they gave Heavies a different color at some point, but that was never in BT canon.
Wait, what? When were the colors of lasers ever published as an actual rule/in universe things.
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Wait, what? When were the colors of lasers ever published as an actual rule/in universe things.
Not what was actually said . . . what I said is IIRC the fiction makes the color-size thing pretty standard and art seems to follow.
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The Assassin is the "Cicada" of the "Jumping Bugs".
Twice the size, barely more firepower/armor.
That's not a fair comparison.
A Locust has 3 tons of weapons and 4 tons of armor. A Cicada has 2.5 tons of weapons and 4 tons of armor.
In comparison the ASN-21 has all the weapons of the WSP-1A plus an LRM rack that weighs as much as the Wasp's entire armament and has a ton and a half more armor and is faster.
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I'd take an Assassin 21 over a Cicada 2A. The ASN-21 can be even more fun if deadfire LRM ammo is allowed in a game.
If we're talking a CDA-3F though, I'd take that over most Assassin flavors for being a highly-mobile jumpy hole puncher, something none of the Assasins do.
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To me, the Assassin is the kind of mech you send out to hunt enemy scouts and make a general nuisance of itself among patrols. It's got the speed to easily evade anything bigger than it, and while it doesn't have a knockout punch, it has a bigger than average toolbox for dealing with the stuff it wants to fight.