’Mech of the Week: AS*-* Atlas

[garhkal]

Honestly, whom ever thought of trading the AC-20, to a single AC-5, was a fool.
A LB-10x i could see.  Good range, still good damage.  But a Fiver??  What was that designer smoking?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Probably something that isn't legal in Denmark.

[UnLimiTeD]

So the A's are all SRM mechs?
I think AC/5s are somewhat charming, but usually they at least have low heat going for it.

[Caedis Animus]

A LB-10x i could see.  Good range, still good damage.  But a Fiver??  What was that designer smoking?

Not exactly an option around that time frame. Regardless, at a glance I'd say the A really shines when it's working up close with an AS7-D or waiting for an AS7-RS to put in some work.

Actually, I'd love to pair it with a King Crab or pretty much anything toting around an AC20.

[Hellraiser]

The AC/5 is never an efficient weapon, but there are mechs that use it reasonably well. Zeus, Trebuchet -7K, maybe even the super-bug known as the Clint.

A new mech variant from Record Sheets Succession Wars, the Atlas AS7-A is not one of those mechs.

.....

The weight saved by downgrading the two big guns on a classic Atlas are plowed into SRM tubes. Lots of them, giving it something in common with the Zeus -6A. Thirty SRM is a lot of firepower, no matter how you look at it. With four tons of ammo, you even have a couple turns more fire than the old AC/20 did. However...

However, it took me at most fifteen seconds to come up with the obvious upgrade. I’m sure somebody will mention it within five posts.

You know, a good fast light can dodge an AC20 shot... usually.

But I'm so sure I'd want to try to dodge 30 SRMs.

That is a new high for SRMs on a L1 Mech I think.

I'd be interested in trying out the A as a "finisher" in an Assault Lance.

As for the obvious upgrade....

Is it 24 Streak Tubes with 1 Ton of Ammo?
20 Streak Tubes w/ 1 Ton & use the other 3 tons to upgrade the to a RAC-5 & double ammo?

[Greatclub]

AC/5 -> PPC + 2 SHS.

Seriously, it's an introtech mech, why are people trying to cram it with stuff unavailable for a century in either direction?

[Hellraiser]

Yeah, the old PPC > AC5 doesn't always apply in a lot of the cases I see it suggested.

This however is one of the times it would have been fine since you would use it w/ the LRMs & save the ML/SRM for short range.


As for why I myself said new tech options.  That's on you.  You said "Upgrade" not "Customization".   They mean 2 different things to me.

Upgrades = New Tech.
RS: Upgrades   (Its a thing)
TRO3039 Sections called "Upgrades" where they showcase 3050+ variants.

A PPC swap on a canon mech is a "customization".

[Caedis Animus]

Yeah, the old PPC > AC5 doesn't always apply in a lot of the cases I see it suggested.

This however is one of the times it would have been fine since you would use it w/ the LRMs & save the ML/SRM for short range.


As for why I myself said new tech options.  That's on you.  You said "Upgrade" not "Customization".   They mean 2 different things to me.

Potato, Potato.

Anyways, I think you'd lose a lot even swapping to a PPC. I'd rather swap out the ammo types if I was going to do anything to the AS7-A, as having something that big dumping a load of infernos on some poor enemy assault is a good time for everyone.

[SteelRaven]

I'm not a fan of the AC/5 in general but it makes sense in a way for the AS7-A. Enough range to contribute to your LRM 10 fire and cool enough, you can keep firing it once your in SRM range.

The PPC would be the easiest swap regardless, PPC + DHS in the Invasion Era especially.

[garhkal]

You know, a good fast light can dodge an AC20 shot... usually.

But I'm so sure I'd want to try to dodge 30 SRMs.

That is a new high for SRMs on a L1 Mech I think.

Well lets compare. 
An AC-20 is 14 tons.  Usually an atlas carries 2 or 3 tons of ammo.
That can get you four SRM-6's ea at 3 tons with 4 or even 5 tons of ammo. 
OR Seven Srm-4's with 2 tons of ammo...  AND you'd still be under the crit slots the AC-20 takes.
Though the Seven SRM-4's would iirc be higher on the heat than the one boom stick of doom.

[Scotty]

A PPC and two heat sinks is not a good trade for this 'Mech, which will already be hitting heat cap with the AC/5 and a bunch of SRMs.  It's basically the perfect possible opportunity for the AC/5 to shine doing exactly what its supposed to be doing: long range medium damage with low heat.

When I fielded a couple of these (yes, a couple :D) the ammo loadout was two tons standard, two tons inferno, one ton frag.  Step one was to hunt down an destroy with extreme prejudice every hex of heavy woods on my side of the map.  I don't think my opponent (who favors 5/8/5 Heavies with good amounts of pulse lasers) was very happy with me for taking away the top end of the bell curve.

[Hellraiser]

Add 5 damage at range while subtract 5 damage in close is a worthy trade.
Reducing Ammo is never a bad option unless alternate ammo loads are available.
Adding the 2 HS while removing the 1 heat from AC into the short range bracket will actually make the SRM/ML combo perform better.
This is still one of those times where PPC for AC5 makes sense.


Where I would keep the AC5's is on something like the Rifleman.
If I was to replace something for a PPC it would be the Twin LL's where I would go PPC/ML/2HS for the same tonnage.
But then it breaks up the 2-4-6 weapons in Pairs pattern of the Rifleman visually.


PS.  Love your removal of cover idea.
I need to bring that up to my local FLGS GM to see about adding that one as an optional rule each month.

[Scotty]

PS.  Love your removal of cover idea.
I need to bring that up to my local FLGS GM to see about adding that one as an optional rule each month.

Why optional?  Fragmentation ammo and destroying terrain is in Total Warfare. >:D

[Weirdo]

When I fielded a couple of these (yes, a couple :D) the ammo loadout was two tons standard, two tons inferno, one ton frag.  Step one was to hunt down an destroy with extreme prejudice every hex of heavy woods on my side of the map.  I don't think my opponent (who favors 5/8/5 Heavies with good amounts of pulse lasers) was very happy with me for taking away the top end of the bell curve.

I need to remember this trick...

[Hellraiser]

Why optional?  Fragmentation ammo and destroying terrain is in Total Warfare. >:D

I was thinking destroying trees was actually in TO, but either way, I think its because we tend to avoid anything with extra record keeping that slows down turns.

When you have a dozen guys around a table all debating who should move first & what our overall strategy is, then the same thing but w/ damage, well lets just say Turn Count by time the store closes is rarely in double digits & its a struggle to get even 2 turns in per hour.  (Sometimes even 1 is pushing it, lol)

[Scotty]

Good lord.

And the best part of the AS7-A is that you can remove a heavy woods in one go.  No fiddly record keeping here! :D

[garhkal]

Why optional?  Fragmentation ammo and destroying terrain is in Total Warfare. >:D

Inferno ammo alone, should do that, no need to go frag ammo.

[Caedis Animus]

Inferno ammo alone, should do that, no need to go frag ammo.

Not having TW on me atm, I assume Frag ammo does it either faster or without causing a fire.

[Orin J.]

Inferno ammo alone, should do that, no need to go frag ammo.

If there's infantry in there, it would be inhumane to burn the woods down with them in it. So there's an argument for frag ammo there.  :laughing_skull:

[Greatclub]

If there's infantry in there, it would be intimidating to burn the woods down with them in it. So there's an argument for Inferno ammo there.  :laughing_skull:    [/Kurita]

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

You know, it boggles the mind how fragmentary munitions can be used to reduce a thirty meter-wide section of forest to a clearcut without harming any squishy humans that might be in the radius.

[Scotty]

Inferno ammo alone, should do that, no need to go frag ammo.

There's a good argument for leaving inferno ammo at home for the heat induced explosion risk, so knowing Frag exists and can be used for this instead is still valuable.

[garhkal]

If there's infantry in there, it would be intimidating to burn the woods down with them in it. So there's an argument for Inferno ammo there.  :laughing_skull:    [/Kurita]

Plus the gaining of smoke screens helps..

[Giovanni Blasini]

AC/5 -> PPC + 2 SHS.

Seriously, it's an introtech mech, why are people trying to cram it with stuff unavailable for a century in either direction?

Wrong answer.  The AS7-A is suffering from a severe shortage of Blazers.  So AC/5 + ammo -> Blazer cannon.  May not be Intro tech, but it is era appropriate.

[Hellraiser]

Good lord.

And the best part of the AS7-A is that you can remove a heavy woods in one go.  No fiddly record keeping here! :D

Yeah, BT on Megamech,  BT with 2 friends, and BT w/ 10 peeps all at the same table have some seriously different "game time played" results.  Hehe.

[Hellraiser]

Plus the gaining of smoke screens helps..

I think that might defeat the purpose of clearing out the woods that the enemy wants to hide in if you just give them a smoke screen instead :)

[Hellraiser]

Wrong answer.  The AS7-A is suffering from a severe shortage of Blazers.  So AC/5 + ammo -> Blazer cannon.  May not be Intro tech, but it is era appropriate.

Hmm, now I'm wondering about a Zeus that drops the AC & the LL to mount Blazer & ML & extra heatsinks.

[Giovanni Blasini]

Hmm, now I'm wondering about a Zeus that drops the AC & the LL to mount Blazer & ML & extra heatsinks.

Keep the LRM-15 instead of dropping to a -10 like the ZEU-6Y?  Probably work pretty well. with that many heat sinks.

[Hellraiser]

Yes,   (I didn't catch that there was a 6Y, lol, I didn't get many of those mini-TROs)

[Greatclub]

we should probably either keep the variants to a dull roar or move to design forum.