Carrier-class art?

[Weirdo]

Does anyone know of any art showing a Carrier-class DropShip? (Fanart included)

I'm considering scratchbuilding a map-scale model, and additional views would be useful.

[House Davie Merc]

Here's a chart of common drop ships on Sarna :   https://www.sarna.net/wiki/DropShip
( Scroll down)
On the chart to the right is a basic description of most of the individual models.
Many of the dropships linked on the left of the chart have pics at their individual pages
but not all.
Fighter carriers I can remember: Leopard CV, Vengeance, Titan, Okinawa, Miraborg, and Gorgon.
There's probably more I can't remember somewhere.
There's also the Union CV and Overlord CV but I'm not aware of any art that differentiates them
from their standard counterparts. The only one that I know has specifically different art is the
Leopard CV.
If your path from there leads you to jump ships you might want to remember that certain
jump ship construction rules have changed and some of the vessels capacity and/or weight
have changed as a result. This forced me to change the transportation for my merc unit.
Hope that's helpful.

[Weirdo]

To clarify, I'm looking for art of the Clan ship that is very specifically named the Carrier-class DropShip, not any old carrier DropShip.

[House Davie Merc]

To clarify, I'm looking for art of the Clan ship that is very specifically named the Carrier-class DropShip, not any old carrier DropShip.

This one?  https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Carrier
Scroll down and click on image to see a bigger image.
I don't know of any other drawn art other then from 3057.
Here's the IWM pic of the mini: https://www.ironwindmetals.com/index.php/categories/cat-battletech/product/battletech-bt-358/category_pathway-210
Sorry. Families away and I'm vacationing with the Bat tonight and misunderstood.

[Hellraiser]

So I couldn't find anymore "art", but I did find this image of the mini from the opposite side as the TRO.

Code: [Select]

Mass 5,000 tons
Length 170 meters
Width 93 meters
Height 43 meters
Hmm
So a Union is a 7 hex circle at 3600t?

This is looking to be a "line trio" about 5+6+5 long?   And maybe 2-2.5" high.
Actually, I correct that, maybe shave off some of the side hexes & go 3+6+3 for the wings sticking out.

Good luck, I look forward to seeing the finished product!


PS.  This just hit me, but map scale is TW Maps, and, when does one need a Carrier on the ground?
They feel like a ship that stays in orbit 99% of the time like the other "carriers"  (Vengeance, Leo-CV, Titan)

[Weirdo]

All DropShips are 7-hex circles. ALL of them. The rules are very clear here. There are no exceptions.

Such a model would be useful when playing attacks on spaceports populated by all sorts of ships on the tarmac. My main use would be when playing air or space dogfights, though. The size is less important here, but having it be no larger than the fighters it would be engaging would just look weird. The finished product would be on a removable base so that it would work either way.

[Hellraiser]

All DropShips are 7-hex circles. ALL of them. The rules are very clear here. There are no exceptions.

Meh, that's not the size shown in DS & JS which gave lots of different hex grid layouts based on the size of the ship which is what I was describing.

A Leopard & a Mammoth are not the same size regardless of the new rules, lol.

Leopard
Mass   1,900
Length   65.5 meters
Width   51.6 meters
Height   22.4 meters

Mammoth
Mass   52,000 tons
Length   277 meters
Width   277 meters
Height   170.6 meters

IE..  7 hexes might be "map representation" but its not "map scale".

[Weirdo]

Scaled to fit within the rules on a map = map scale. Map scale isn't a hard number, never has been. And DSJS hasn't been a useful source of game data since before the turn of the century. It's got a lot of very nice lore, but nothing for the actual tabletop.

[Mendrugo]

There's a curious Kell Hound SB scenario that implies a Leopard hull runs the entire length of the map edge in the final battle for Patrick Kell against Yorinaga Kurita.

[Weirdo]

Please, folks.

Please stick to the Carrier-class, and TW-playable. If you want to talk about something that doesn't fall into those guidelines, the New Topic button is available to everyone!

PLEASE.

[Giovanni Blasini]

All DropShips are 7-hex circles. ALL of them. The rules are very clear here. There are no exceptions.

I’m actually unaware of this rule and would appreciate a citation when you have the opportunity.

Such a model would be useful when playing attacks on spaceports populated by all sorts of ships on the tarmac. My main use would be when playing air or space dogfights, though. The size is less important here, but having it be no larger than the fighters it would be engaging would just look weird. The finished product would be on a removable base so that it would work either way.

Here, however, is where you’re going to run into an issue.  Yes, you’re fine on the standard ground map (which I’m stunned it’s atmospheric capable, but rules don’t say otherwise), but on the space map you’re running at a far different scale.  Unless the intention is to have the Carrier grounded on, say, an asteroid, with the space action occurring on the low altitude or ground map, which, given the absence of atmosphere, would make for a wildly fun scenario, as aerospace fighters have to expend thrust points to counter the asteroid’s gravity or put themselves in very low altitude orbits over the asteroid and do flybys.

My inner Kerbal Space Program fan salivates at trying to model the orbital mechanics of that in a Battletech game under TW rules (do we get vectored movement from StratOps or literally just the TW core rule book?), and sincerely hopes one your pilots is named Jebediah Kerman.

[Lorcan Nagle]

I’m actually unaware of this rule and would appreciate a citation when you have the opportunity.

Total Warfare, 9th printing, page 57: "DropShips are considered Large Support Vehicles for the
target hex and the six surrounding adjacent hexes."

Aerodynes are 5 levels tall and Spheroids 10 (TW 9th printing page 99)

[Weirdo]

Here, however, is where you’re going to run into an issue.  Yes, you’re fine on the standard ground map (which I’m stunned it’s atmospheric capable, but rules don’t say otherwise), but on the space map you’re running at a far different scale.  Unless the intention is to have the Carrier grounded on, say, an asteroid, with the space action occurring on the low altitude or ground map, which, given the absence of atmosphere, would make for a wildly fun scenario, as aerospace fighters have to expend thrust points to counter the asteroid’s gravity or put themselves in very low altitude orbits over the asteroid and do flybys.

Not an issue. The plan is to have the flight base use a tall enough stem that fighter minis can be placed under the DropShip, so hexes adjacent to the ship are not blocked off. Given that the model is probably going to be mostly plastic and cardstock, it shouldn't be difficult to make the base bottom-heavy enough that this height won't affect stability.

Total Warfare, 9th printing, page 57: "DropShips are considered Large Support Vehicles for the
target hex and the six surrounding adjacent hexes."

Aerodynes are 5 levels tall and Spheroids 10 (TW 9th printing page 99)

This. It's been like this since Total War was first published, possibly AT2r as well.

[Giovanni Blasini]

Total Warfare, 9th printing, page 57: "DropShips are considered Large Support Vehicles for the
target hex and the six surrounding adjacent hexes."

Aerodynes are 5 levels tall and Spheroids 10 (TW 9th printing page 99)

Awesome, thank you.  And, yeah, as @Weirdo pointed out, they're not implying that's a hard number for actual DropShip diameter, either, just like they're not implying all battlearmor suits are exactly 1000 kg.  It's representational.  You plunk a DropShip down on the map under TW rules, everyone knows how many hexes it's gonna take up.  Makes complete sense.

Not an issue. The plan is to have the flight base use a tall enough stem that fighter minis can be placed under the DropShip, so hexes adjacent to the ship are not blocked off. Given that the model is probably going to be mostly plastic and cardstock, it shouldn't be difficult to make the base bottom-heavy enough that this height won't affect stability.

Sounds neat.  When you do run it, take lots of pictures and post an AAR?

[Weirdo]

Of course! No way I'm doing this and not showing it off for fake Internet points!

[Hellraiser]

Scaled to fit within the rules on a map = map scale.

Agree to disagree.

Map scale isn't a hard number, never has been.

I'd assume Map Scale is in scale w/ the Map.   IE,  30M is a Hex.
Like Mech Scale is in scale with the Mechs.
But that's me.

And DSJS hasn't been a useful source of game data since before the turn of the century. It's got a lot of very nice lore, but nothing for the actual tabletop.

Meh, I happen to like the old grids when everything didn't default to the size of a Union.

This. It's been like this since Total War was first published, possibly AT2r as well.

I knew about the rule change, but if I'm making a model to scale then I'm not wanting it to look like a Union, but that's just me.


So are you planning on running standard/mechscale fighters or the microfighters?

What are you thinking of using for the base material to weigh it down?

Makes me want something like the old metal mech bases but triple height/weight.

Maybe a stack of washers glued together?

Can one buy a 1" solid metal cube?  lol

[Weirdo]

So are you planning on running standard/mechscale fighters or the microfighters?

Standard scale. That's the whole point of this model, to have such a ship to use in dogfight and interception games with those fighter minis. I've already got plenty of smaller Carriers for fleet-scale games.

What are you thinking of using for the base material to weigh it down?

Dunno, haven't gotten that far. Probably something metal, along with plenty of sand glued on top or inside of it for more weight, just like I do with anything Mech Scale.

[House Davie Merc]

Total Warfare, 9th printing, page 57: "DropShips are considered Large Support Vehicles for the
target hex and the six surrounding adjacent hexes."

Aerodynes are 5 levels tall and Spheroids 10 (TW 9th printing page 99)

Thanks for posting this. I've been looking at some out of date/no longer viable info.
Somewhere on my PC is a list of the hexes that were actually taken up by different classes of
aerodyne drop ships. This make it a LOT easier.
I REALLY need to get a newer printing of TW.

[Weirdo]

That list on your computer is older then you think - this rule has been around since the very first printing of TW, possibly even earlier than that.

[Hellraiser]

Thanks for posting this. I've been looking at some out of date/no longer viable info.
Somewhere on my PC is a list of the hexes that were actually taken up by different classes of
aerodyne drop ships. This make it a LOT easier.
I REALLY need to get a newer printing of TW.

There is a page in the back of DS/JS that had those diagrams.
All were just based on the dimensions of each ship in meters v/s hexes being 30M.

As stated several times, the newest rule is a generic 90M circle for every DS which matches the Union in diameter. 
Height varies at 5-Aero v/s 10-Sphere  but those don't seem to match up to much since those would make for a "smooshed" down Burger shaped Union, IIRC.

Its a representation for anyone to use for any DS.   Makes things simple.

I don't care for it but that's just me.
I like the big/small DS w/ the various sizes.

Not that I've had much reason to use them, I think we've had maybe 1-2 fights with a grounded dropship in the last 20 years with at most maybe 3x in 37 years of playing.

[paladin2019]

Code: [Select]

Mass 5,000 tons
Length 170 meters
Width 93 meters
Height 43 meters

Based on these numbers, it's barely 4 hexes wide. It's also 8 levels tall.

Height varies at 5-Aero v/s 10-Sphere  but those don't seem to match up to much since those would make for a "smooshed" down Burger shaped Union, IIRC.

All multi-hex structures are "burgered" due to the differences in map length vs. map height scale (even if a Union should be 13 levels tall).

[Hellraiser]

Based on these numbers, it's barely 4 hexes wide. It's also 8 levels tall.

More like 3 & 7 really.

All multi-hex structures are "burgered" due to the differences in map length vs. map height scale (even if a Union should be 13 levels tall).

Depends on the levels really.
90M Wide & 60M Tall is the hex dimensions at 3 wide by 10 tall.  Not very "spherical"
If they had it be the full 13 levels it would match better at least.

[paladin2019]

More like 3 & 7 really.

It exceeds the the 90 and 42 meter thresholds, even by the smallest bit. It needs the additional hexes.

[Hellraiser]

It needs the additional hexes. 

Meh, I disagree. 
If it was a solid 1/3-1/2 way through the next hex/level I could see it. 
But 10-15% I'm fine with round down.

[Cannonshop]

So I couldn't find anymore "art", but I did find this image of the mini from the opposite side as the TRO.

Code: [Select]

Mass 5,000 tons
Length 170 meters
Width 93 meters
Height 43 meters
Hmm
So a Union is a 7 hex circle at 3600t?

This is looking to be a "line trio" about 5+6+5 long?   And maybe 2-2.5" high.
Actually, I correct that, maybe shave off some of the side hexes & go 3+6+3 for the wings sticking out.

Good luck, I look forward to seeing the finished product!


PS.  This just hit me, but map scale is TW Maps, and, when does one need a Carrier on the ground?
They feel like a ship that stays in orbit 99% of the time like the other "carriers"  (Vengeance, Leo-CV, Titan)

repair, refuel and maintenance, because orbital yards are SCARCE, so being able to ground and get patched up or refuel is kinda useful.

[Hellraiser]

repair, refuel and maintenance, because orbital yards are SCARCE, so being able to ground and get patched up or refuel is kinda useful.

Agree completely.
It's just after DS & JS gave us the Vengeance & Achilles that were "Space Only" and even the Leo-CV is questionable, I start to see other designs & wonder what is or isn't really a ground-able ship.
The Carrier has that same "non-aerodynamic but is an aerodyne" look to me.
Interestingly when you add in the Titan as well, they pattern seems to be w/ Carriers which sort of makes "some" sense really.

[Wrangler]

This does pose question. Aerospace Fighters under a certain ruling, are able to VTOL.   Why can't the dropships do that?  Is it in black and white that says the Carrier can't land?  For all we know it' maybe be unlike a Delta wing sort thing or have pop out wings. 

I know that sounds crazy, but there not much art out there of the Carrier doing it's thing since it's suppose to be non-combatant taxi for Aerospace Fighters.  It has guns, Clans don't like using them in combat though. 

[Daryk]

The rules for DropShips doing that are... pretty punitive.

[Cannonshop]

Agree completely.
It's just after DS & JS gave us the Vengeance & Achilles that were "Space Only" and even the Leo-CV is questionable, I start to see other designs & wonder what is or isn't really a ground-able ship.
The Carrier has that same "non-aerodynamic but is an aerodyne" look to me.
Interestingly when you add in the Titan as well, they pattern seems to be w/ Carriers which sort of makes "some" sense really.

Have you LOOKED at an Aerospace Figther in canon?  There isn't an aircraft firm in the Battletech UNIVERSE that's even HEARD of a "Wind Tunnel", never mind Area Ruling, laminar flow, Anhedral, Dihedral, Spoilers, Flaps, Aelerons, or 'Control Surfaces".  Everything is a mix of blocky shapes and blunt leading edges with VERY few exceptions.

Most fighter designs, going by the artwork?  would shake apart and maybe kill the pilot if they managed to stay  facing forward in atmosphere for any sustained period of time, just off the compression waves and imposed vortices.  While I'm fair certain the authors have heard of aerodynamics, it's often plentifully clear that the artists really don't even know there's a word for that, hell, I'm not sure they don't know there's a concept for that.

[ActionButler]

Locked at the request of the OP.