BattleTech: Clan Invasion Kickstarter Discussion, Vol. 4, The Madness Begins

[Colt Ward]

Well, there are a lot of folks asking about Destiny since its supposed to be RPG-lite and is a pathway to really re-living the Invasion.  Its also good to see a variety of the stuff under development from the KS.  Look forward to the Beta coming soon.

[Colt Ward]

Founding of the Clans I @$340k says the 2nd novel by the end of the year but I cannot find anything about the 1st being available.  Founding of the Clans II @$390k says 2nd novel will be delivered by the end of the campaign.

I think the wording on that got messed up, but unless I missed it we did not get the 1st Founding book yet?

Hey Cubby & TPTB . . .

[Fat Guy]

The Destiny BETA has arrived!

[Daryk]

I'll be looking through it this weekend...

[hf22]

Hmmm, the reasons given for the pledge manager delay aren't massively encouraging. The delay itself is immaterial, but there will be future issues arising from the complexity baked into this Kickstarter I'd wager.

[H.B.M.C.]

I'll be honest and say that I'm only interested in the Destiny --> BattleTech rules, and from what's there I'm pretty happy. Seems straightforward to make a character and convert them across.

BYE

[Sartris]

Hmmm, the reasons given for the pledge manager delay aren't massively encouraging. The delay itself is immaterial, but there will be future issues arising from the complexity baked into this Kickstarter I'd wager.

Mhm. It’s why I was more nervous than happy with the initial explosion of funding. Seeing the numbers people were putting out there for cgl’s mini commitment were already staggering a few weeks into the campaign. I appreciate them taking a step back to try to figure out the logistics though. Better to have some grumbling now and less when the product ships. For cgl’s sake I hope they can work things out quickly (but more important correctly) and avoid any big delays

[Asgo]

since the complexity stems from general number of different items and right now more importantly from the complexity of choices in the PM, I think the most probable causes of delays are first wave distribution on QML's side and potential design delays on the second wave mechs.

the first because the selection complexity is less of an issue for production once the PM is closed and total numbers are generated. On the other hand QML will have to deal with the full complexity of the wave 1 selections per backer, which all in all may take longer per packet than expected.

the second, because due to the size of the ks and the unlocked mech boxes they may get behind on finalizing the last designs and starting the second production cycle. On the distribution side this should be more straight forward since the number of item types to juggle are fewer.

(of course you always can have production snafus but they aren't easy to predict)

[niall78]

Mhm. It’s why I was more nervous than happy with the initial explosion of funding. Seeing the numbers people were putting out there for cgl’s mini commitment were already staggering a few weeks into the campaign. I appreciate them taking a step back to try to figure out the logistics though. Better to have some grumbling now and less when the product ships. For cgl’s sake I hope they can work things out quickly (but more important correctly) and avoid any big delays

Personally I don't know why they bothered with all the kibble that wasn't miniatures. It has made the KS very complex for very little real benefit.

[DarkSpade]

Because players always begging for Battletech swag from something other than a convention all the time.  This gave them the opportunity to deliver that.

[General308]

Because players always begging for Battletech swag from something other than a convention all the time.  This gave them the opportunity to deliver that.

This.....

BattleTech players have been asking for as long as I can remember to have a chance at the Con Exclusive type stuff.  This was a chance to give players what they had begged for.

[Asgo]

This.....

BattleTech players have been asking for as long as I can remember to have a chance at the Con Exclusive type stuff.  This was a chance to give players what they had begged for.

pretty much, and if you look at the KS comments you will see people asking for more choices/options.
While I tend to stick mostly to functional elements, I don't think the bling/swag stuff will actually be that problematic once PM is up and the designs are finalized, as those come out of different production lines.
I think the inherent complexity of the mech selections and redesigns on the todo list will actually be the limiting factor in terms of delivery.
But we will see, haven't seen many big game KS projects that didn't have delays down the road - ks is a patience game. :)

[General308]

pretty much, and if you look at the KS comments you will see people asking for more choices/options.
While I tend to stick mostly to functional elements, I don't think the bling/swag stuff will actually be that problematic once PM is up and the designs are finalized, as those come out of different production lines.
I think the inherent complexity of the mech selections and redesigns on the todo list will actually be the limiting factor in terms of delivery.
But we will see, haven't seen many big game KS projects that didn't have delays down the road - ks is a patience game. :)

I am just hoping any delays are not as bad as the IWM LAM kickstarter. 

[Euphonium]

I don't think the delay in setting up the pledge manager will actually delay the process of making or shipping the product very much, and I'd much rather wait an extra few weeks for a pledge manager that works reliably than have a pledge manager quickly then have things fall apart later!

[Maingunnery]

I would not mind if they simplify the choices if it improves the reliability/quality of the entire process.

[General308]

I would not mind if they simplify the choices if it improves the reliability/quality of the entire process.

 You might not. But I am sure people who paid for all the choices would.

[Maingunnery]

You might not. But I am sure people who paid for all the choices would.

You might have to elaborate on this.

[General308]

You might have to elaborate on this.

Well many people have already pledge money planning to buy those choices.  So if you simplified things you would be taking away the options people already paid for.  I don't think those people would appreciate that.

[Maingunnery]

Well many people have already pledge money planning to buy those choices.  So if you simplified things you would be taking away the options people already paid for.  I don't think those people would appreciate that.

I was actually thinking that CGL could bundle things in a more efficient manner.
So nothing being taken away.

[General308]

I was actually thinking that CGL could bundle things in a more efficient manner.
So nothing being taken away.

Your turn.  How do you actually do that without taking things away?

[Colt Ward]

I am just wanting to see the first Founding of the Clans epub release, seems it slipped through the cracks and no comment since it was brought up.  Unless I missed the release.

[Maingunnery]

Your turn.  How do you actually do that without taking things away?

If a player wants several things then they can pick the bundles that contain them, so nothing taken away.
However I think that we might have a fundamental disagreement about what 'taking away' means, is that so?

[Asgo]

If a player wants several things then they can pick the bundles that contain them, so nothing taken away.
However I think that we might have a fundamental disagreement about what 'taking away' means, is that so?

simplification in this context would be mostly combining elements to reduce complexity.
As in choices A and B might be combined to a (A+B).
Now if someone already put money in for A he cannot get it back and he cannot choose A, making it a problematic change.

probably one reason, that the wave1/2 pledge adaptations happened in a way that if you already put money in for the elements you choose before you can exactly back to them by adding the elements they made optional. However this is actually a case for increasing the complexity instead of reducing it.

[SteveRestless]

I am just wanting to see the first Founding of the Clans epub release, seems it slipped through the cracks and no comment since it was brought up.  Unless I missed the release.
[/quote

I must have missed it as well, unless it hasn't happened yet.

[Euphonium]

If a player wants several things then they can pick the bundles that contain them, so nothing taken away.
However I think that we might have a fundamental disagreement about what 'taking away' means, is that so?

I backed at Star Colonel, so IIRC after the base set I get to choose any 10 lance/star packs, plus a faction pack.

There are in total 19 lance/star packs and 30 faction packs

I could choose 10 of the same one, 2 each of 5 different ones, 10 different ones, or many other combinations.
By the time you add in the faction pack it's entirely possible that no other Star Colonel backer will chose exactly the same things as me, and that's before you get to any add-ons!

How can you simplify that sort of order complexity without taking away choices, or am I misunderstanding?

[General308]

If a player wants several things then they can pick the bundles that contain them, so nothing taken away.
However I think that we might have a fundamental disagreement about what 'taking away' means, is that so?

I think it is. If someone has already paid for say one set of dice and you know say you have to buy x number of dice(more than one) you have taken away his option to get what he already paid for.

[niall78]

Because players always begging for Battletech swag from something other than a convention all the time.  This gave them the opportunity to deliver that.

Not a thing in my BT world in real life or on the on-line servers over the decades. Not even noticed begging on these forums to be honest - which isn't representative of the general player base in any case.

I backed for the miniatures and feel the miniatures alone would have driven the KS total to near where it is anyway. I wouldn't have added the massive bundle of kibble that can only vastly complicate the success of the KS but also will divert much effort and manpower from the core of the KS - the miniatures we've all been wanting for decades.

[BoyOfSummer]

Considering the prices demanded on ebay for con exclusive swag there seems to be a relevant need for such things.

For example, roughly the half of my pledge is  swag.

[Greatclub]

Not a thing in my BT world in real life or on the on-line servers over the decades. Not even noticed begging on these forums to be honest - which isn't representative of the general player base in any case.

I backed for the miniatures and feel the miniatures alone would have driven the KS total to near where it is anyway. I wouldn't have added the massive bundle of kibble that can only vastly complicate the success of the KS but also will divert much effort and manpower from the core of the KS - the miniatures we've all been wanting for decades.

I can think of two people who would very much want con swag among maybe ten. So yes, there is at least that much of a market.

That said, this kickstarter has an exceptional number of options; I can't think of one worse for exchanges and other tricks.

[niall78]

I can think of two people who would very much want con swag among maybe ten. So yes, there is at least that much of a market.

That said, this kickstarter has an exceptional number of options; I can't think of one worse for exchanges and other tricks.

I doubt even the most fervent admirer of convention kibble would have ignored the KS if such stuff wasn't part of the offer. Backers came for the miniatures. I wouldn't have complicated the whole thing with so many trinkets that nobody would have missed if they hadn't been offered in the first place.

Last big KS I was involved in - A Song of Ice and Fire - certainly had nothing like this mind-boggling range of options. It offered little but miniatures - the core of a KS for a miniatures game.